Harley Brawler Concept - "Recapturing the Youth Market. Take 3."

[Rincewind]

Harley is making an effort to get new blood into their showrooms.  First they came out with the Nightster, trying to appeal to the non-shiny aesthetic of modern life (read: emo).  Next they came out with the slammed-low Forty-Eight, appealing to pubescents and "little people."  But these efforts did not do much to the basic Sportster package, and may have even de-Sported it in regards to handling.  Of course then there is the XR1200 models, which show that Harley can make a higher-spec Sporty.

Now they are wising up and thinking beyond the Sportster model.  Read here (Asphalt & Rubber) about the Brawler Concept.  Notice that they started by studying a Speed Triple, so you know they are finally on the "right page" for ergos.  

But would a person take this "V-rod powered Sportster" over a bike like the Speed Triple, Tuono, etc?  Can they hit the right note in terms of performance to compete?  The whole package cries heavyweight to me, like a shortened Vrod and not a hooligan sports-naked bike.  Is this the Harley that will get new young riders in the Harley shops, or are they once again seeming to spin their wheels?  



Further info at the kneeslider.

[Mookie]

Looks better than any other Harley I've seen in a while.  Aside from foot controls placed on the freakin' swingarm and a probable +500lb weight I kinda like it.

[bomber]

this is an interesting design exercise, and I like it a lot.

Clearly, it's tough to predict how a scoot will feel under you from simply looking at a drawing, but, although t VRod engine is a powerful lump, it's also heavy. HDI isn't know for paying for light (which, oddly, is more costly than heavy), so I'd guess the resulting bike will be carrying around a bit more avoirdupois that the targets you've named.

As a backroad scratcher, I'll go out on a limb and rate it a C-.

As a bar hopper, A+.

[Rincewind]

Sorry I may have misunderstood the initial article - this is the work of Travis Clark and may/may not be sponsored by the Motor Company.

Anyway here are more pics.

[scottzilla]

Hopefully they will leave room for your junk to fit, unlike the Speed Triple!

If HD really wanted a new audience, they would have offered "Buell Motorcycles by Harley Davidson" and put an HD emblem on the tank.  Too late for that now.

[Gun Slinger]

That's the first Harley I've ever seen that struck me as something I would consider riding!

[Papa Lazarou]

But only if they sort out the finish.

[Liquidsilver]

Yeah, it kinda looks like a Buell.  

[bomber]

then my earlier comments need revising.

It's gonna be even heavier than if HDI built it. Light is expensive, especially in quantities of single digits.

I would be interested to read of a ride report, when and if -- most custom builders are not engineers, and have limited understanding of things that impact handle and vehicle dynamics.

[chornbe]

You know how the three most important words in real estate are location, location and location?

When attracting buyers from outside your normal market segment - especially those so deeply entrenched as those seem to be in the sport bike world - a huge consideration for the three most important words are price, price and price.

I just don't see it making headway, based on a bike that already starts north of $14k. I don't see how they will ( will, not "could" ) price this below the $10k price point - a number that I personally think they NEED to hit in order to attract younger riders.

$.02

[Trent in WA]

This is a pretty cool-looking concept bike. It does bear some resemblance to the Yamaha VMax, but that is a good thing in my book.

[Rincewind]

While I agree with Chris that Harley needs to hook younger riders to stay alive, I don't see them in much of a hurry to evolve.  And by gettin rid of Buell, I think they devolved.  How can a person of this "youthbike" segment not see Buell's fate as a giant F-U?  In the bike world they have only worked to increase the cruiser vs sport chasm.  

Harley is right to stick to their cruiser market segment.  They don't have the cajones to make a hooligan bike, and thats fine!  I wish an American bike maker would make a streetfighter, but it doesn't have to be Harley.  Maybe Confederate or Polaris should hire this designer.

[ironmike]

Give Chris his due - he nailed it on price, price, price!

And Rincewind makes valid observations... although I doubt Polaris is ready to go in this direction, and Confederate is content to market to collectors and deep pocket enthusiasts...

IMHO, the only hope this bike has of actually engaging its intended demographic - especially in this economy - is to be priced even lower... say $8,995 for a base model, and offer a catalog of options (H-D is really quite good at that).   It may be a loss-leader at that price point, but it'd be a sound long range marketing strategy to bring new blood into the cult.

[Fourstring]

As a member of the "youth market", or whatever, Harley doesn't need to pander to me with a new edgy design.  Do what you do, be proud of it, and play to your strengths.  A HD streetfighter without Buell makes as much sense as a zucchini hat.

However, they do have to give me the time of fucking day when I walk into their dealerships.  That would help their pull with the "youth market".

Edit: On the design, meh.  Yamaha already makes the MT-01.

[Orson]

where have I seen that before?  

oh right. The V-Rod  

Harley makes more money than Ducati, yet they can't seem to make a decent Monster clone.

They really need to pour some of that money into R&D and come up with a new engine. It doesn't have to be a world beater. Just sumthin that makes about 90 hp and doesn't weigh as much as a Ford pick up.

 

[CLAY]

I like it.  Not sure I'd buy it though- it's not my style, unless I had the discretionary funds to buy a bike just for local hopping- and I have one for that.  I agree with much of the sentiment- it was kind of a kick in the nuts to sport bike riders to axe Buell- it looks to me like this would be back-pedaling; "Well fellas, with Buell gone we need to do SOMETHING or our market will retire and die!"  

Then again, as some of you have mentioned, Harley is the king of the cruiser market, and I think there will always be cruiser fans out there- although I think they will see that market shrink.  

[greywolf]

Certainly is an interesting concept , I doubt the MoCo will pick it up .. but I'd consider it.

For Grins I  posted in on a few HD forums ( having and HD as well and my FJR)  the overwhelming response was NO F**K'n way .

They are die hard traditionalists and are willing to accept overpriced , ancient designs.  HD has run EPA proof of concepts for V-ROD based engines of 2000 and 2400cc , they could make a very nice sport touring bike , but "the Faithful"  wouldn't buy it.

V-Rods are not big sellers .

[Yankee Dog]

looks like a Buell.  

yankee Dog

[servicerifle]

Yeah, it kinda looks like a Buell.  

This.

[Scratch33]

Go ahead and make it; go ahead and buy it.  Owners will still have to go sit in a corner at HOG meets.  

[garry]

I don't see the point aside from poseur value. If you want a naked sporty bike, buy the real thing (Speed Triple, Tuono, Super Duke, etc). It'll be lighter, faster, handle better, etc at the same price point or less. Someone else mentioned the Yamaha MT01. How do they do sales wise? Gotta think that is a pretty small market niche they're going for.

[Rincewind]

Go ahead and make it; go ahead and buy it.  Owners will still have to go sit in a corner at HOG meets.  

 

[jfurf]

It appears to be design exercise, not an official concept.  In other words... not a real production model, never will be a real production model, etc.

[Altarider]

This reminds me a lot of the first generation V-Max.  Big, big engine, short rake compared to most cruisers.  I wonder if the V Rod engine can generate the following that the V-4 did for the V-Max.

[Espada]

Dear Harley,

You had the 1125CR.  What the fuck is wrong with you?  Assholes.

[peacemaker24]

I don't know what it's like in other parts of the world, but the areas I cruise around in, Harley ain't hurting.  I'm a truck driver, so I'm on the road a LOT, and from what I see, Harleys outnumber the rest of the motorcycling population together by at least six to one.   Heck the only place I see sportybikes in anything like numbers is Chicago, with the, umm, "Urban pirates," cruising around in packs at 90 in a 45 all the time.  

As for Harley's bikes, their cruisers truly are top notch for cruisers.  I've ridden some modern cruising bikes, like the Triumph T-Bird, Victory Vision, Victory Cross Country, and one of the big Vulcans, and none of them could really compare in terms of comfort and feel to my Dad's 14 year old Road King.  I still think they're overpriced, but they are pretty damned good.

It's this "youth bike," segment that they can't seem to find a working formula in.  I was actually looking at the XR1200, at one point, but then thought: a Sportster ain't much of a bike at any price, so a hot-rod sportster, which is bound to be mediocre by sportybike standards really should not cost 12,000 f#cking dollars.  

~~~Jesse

[atadaskew]

Dear Harley,

You had the 1125CR.  What the fuck is wrong with you?  Assholes.

Maybe the ugliest bike in recent memory.
Or was it that other 1125 model?

Where's Brad when I need him?

[Hodge Podge]

I don't post very often, but I've been here long enough to have misread the thread title as "Hocket Brawler Concept."  Bummer.  That would have been a cool bike...

[Kraz]

I don't really get too excited about a bunch of CG mockups.  It's not even into prototype phase yet...

Are those mirrors mounted on the forks?
 

Oh my...

[falconati]

Beautiful motorcycle.  Hopefully they get a good price on this guy and keep it a lil light

[Espada]

Beautiful motorcycle.  Hopefully they get a good price on this guy and keep it a lil light

Heh, I wouldn't bet on that.  Harley managed to get the Sportster 883 (not even 1000 freaking cc!) Super Low to weigh 563 lb, ready to ride.  The only thing simpler in the world motorcycling is the Honda Rebel 250.  I have a feeling that this   "Brawler," will have a weight that will make an FJR looking damned pocket bike.

[chornbe]

Heh, I wouldn't bet on that.  Harley managed to get the Sportster 883 (not even 1000 freaking cc!) Super Low to weigh 563 lb, ready to ride.  The only thing simpler in the world motorcycling is the Honda Rebel 250.  I have a feeling that this   "Brawler," will have a weight that will make an FJR looking damned pocket bike.

Lighten up, Francis. As we've since discovered, It's a 3rd party rendering of ideas. It is NOT (so far) a Harley-sponsored thing.

PS... Weigh other cruiser-styled bikes. Some of the weights will surprise you. Plus, cut open a Sportster frame sometimes... they're stout and stiff. The reason... the tube walls are crazy thick. Add in all the iron and steel in the engine and gear box... They're not designed (and hence, built) to be lightweight uber performance bikes. Ever ridden one? They're a different feel altogether from bikes with aluminum frames and lots of aluminum and alloys. I didn't say better or worse - different. That density changes the dynamics quite a bit.

[Espada]

Lighten up, Francis. As we've since discovered, It's a 3rd party rendering of ideas. It is NOT (so far) a Harley-sponsored thing.

PS... Weigh other cruiser-styled bikes. Some of the weights will surprise you. Plus, cut open a Sportster frame sometimes... they're stout and stiff. The reason... the tube walls are crazy thick. Add in all the iron and steel in the engine and gear box... They're not designed (and hence, built) to be lightweight uber performance bikes. Ever ridden one? They're a different feel altogether from bikes with aluminum frames and lots of aluminum and alloys. I didn't say better or worse - different. That density changes the dynamics quite a bit.

Nice reference to Pee Wee's Big Adventure    I understand that the Brawler is a third party conceptual study, but the idea behind it irks me.  Admittedly, that stems from my experience as a former owner of a Buell XB9S.  Everything Harley needed to pull in the, "Youth Market," was right there.  

[bomber]

Density always changes things, this is true -- while delving into the mill on my Tuber Buell (especially as 1203 Sportie with mildly reworked heads), I was astounded at the 1960's tech parts still in play . . .

For the vast majority of the target market for these engines, I'll agree that this posed no problem at all  .. . .

Density almost always changes things -- and almost always for the worse. You don't have to be wanting an uber performace bike to appreciate the lack of avoirdupois -- simple K-turn in a crowded parking lot will do it.

[chornbe]

Density always changes things, this is true -- while delving into the mill on my Tuber Buell (especially as 1203 Sportie with mildly reworked heads), I was astounded at the 1960's tech parts still in play . . .

For the vast majority of the target market for these engines, I'll agree that this posed no problem at all  .. . .

Density almost always changes things -- and almost always for the worse. You don't have to be wanting an uber performace bike to appreciate the lack of avoirdupois -- simple K-turn in a crowded parking lot will do it.

I gotta say, I'll never understand the people who can't u-turn a Harley in like 9 feet of space. Especially the touring frame machines. Those things are wicked easy to ride and very well mannered. And if parking lots are the criteria, I'd take pretty much *any* Harley over pretty much any of the bigger STs any day; lower center of gravity and lower overall stance means way easier to move around than a top-heavier or taller bike like an FJR or a C14 or something.