Dual-Sport Recommendations: BMW 1200GS, F650GS, Kawi KLR or Versy or ?

[mtbjay]

Okay, I officially have the bug.  I returned to motorcycling a year ago from a l-o-n-g absence.  Took the Intermediate Safety course and went all-out: brand new Ducati Monster 696 w/Termi exhaust, Arai Corsair V helmet, Dianese Leather jacket, Winter textile jacket and pants, Touring Boots AND short trip high-tops.  Plus, a factory rack & panniers AND tail bag for the Duc.  I just finished my first tour, a 2 day, 600 mile whirlwind trip of middle Oregon, crossing the Cascades twice, and loving it.  Man, did I however see a lot of BMW's out there!  On highway 138 to Diamond Lake, that's all there was!  Anyway, ever since I've had my Ducati, I've wondered if I might have been happier with a dual-sport to explore some back roads.  We have such a HUGE network of forest service roads here in Oregon, I hate to miss out on the fun!   The Monster is just too nice to take on any dirt/gravel roads.  Besides, she's really grown on me- I think I'll keep her for awhile.

So, what's the best used dual-sport for our dirt/gravel back roads thats equally fun on the pavement?  Any back road rides will involve a fair amount of paved travel as I see it and I don't think I'll be interested in anything but improved dirt roads.  I own 7 bicycles, so I know there is a tool for every job... but what are some of your favorites?  I can't afford 2 nice motorbikes right now, but maybe in the future.

I thought about the Kawi Versys as a replacment for my Ducati, but there's no way I'd trade it now after the successful road tour I just had.  I'll I'd need is a windscreen, and she'd be good for at least 3-400 miles a day and still be loads of fun as a city bike and weekend sport bike.  So, that has me thinking keep it (at least till it's 4-5 years old) and get a cheap dual-sport.  Then maybe the dream garage....

My Short-term List:

 2008+ Kawi KLR, or maybe a Kawisaki Versys
 An affordable BMW F650GS (the thumpers)


My Dream Bike Garage:

The new Ducati Multistrada and the new Monster 796

Or, a new BMW R1200R and 1200 GS or F800GS


Now, the wife want's a bike too, so  I may just be dreaming here...  But it's fun to throw it out there!  What kind of path have y'all traveled on your way to Sport-Touring heaven?  Any recommendations on bikes?  Favorites?  Disappointments?  Regrets?  Do-Overs?  Care to Share?



MY PATH:

Honda XR75
various 3-wheelers
BMX bicycle
Bianchi road bike
Honda Twinstar 200cc
Moped grandpa gave me
various Mountain Bikes and lots of racing (achieved Expert status)
various Road Bikes (and lots of racing)
Cycle-cross
DUCATI MONSTER 696

... and now a hankering for more styles!  Faster! More Power!  Go explore Oregon's back roads; fish, camp, hike. Bring a buddy!

What to do next?  (This is uncharted waters for me, HELP!)


Jason
(Sherwood - SW Portland)

[garry]

I would look for a used, nicely set up KLR (previous gen). Look for one where the owner did all the usual mods for reliability and crash protection, etc. They are readily available, inexpensive and stone axe reliable once the well-known issues (doohickey, various chassis bolts, etc) are taken care of.

The new KLR is even more street-biased than the previous generation. I would look at the previous gen because you can get them really cheap and they haven't changed that much over the years (mostly color and decals). If you don't like it, you can sell it and not take a bath on it.

[buls4evr]

What you are describing to me is really "adventure riding" not actually a dual-sport experience. Any of those bikes you mention will do the job but a KLR is the cheapest to obtain and maintain. This is really a fun segment of riding. The good thing about a KLR is that it does not make your$$$$ cry if you do spill it. Get a good deal on what you buy and don't think you need NEW.

[Rincewind]

I have been eyeing up the F650GS thumpers and seeing some good deals that come with metal cases, etc.

But I'm pretty much a DS-newb, too, so I will just fetch my popcorn.

[tdeboeser]

MTS 1200

[Mrs. DantesDame]

... and now a hankering for more styles!  Faster! More Power!  Go explore Oregon's back roads; fish, camp, hike. Bring a buddy!

What to do next?  (This is uncharted waters for me, HELP!)

Welcome (again!)

First of all, you're almost contradicting yourself here. You want more power and to go faster, but then you throw in "backroads, fishing, camping, hiking and a buddy" - they usually don't go together  

You say that your wife wants a bike. What if you frame your next bike choice into "what can she ride that will do well enough alongside the Monster, yet still take me places that the Monster can't go?"  The quick answer to this is the WeeStrom or the F650. Either one has enough power to match the Monster (within reason    ) but will take you safely over some of those fabulous dirt roads that your area has.

Now if your wife being able to ride with you isn't much of a concern (either alongside or doubled-up), I'd recommend the KLR without hesitation     I'll feel repetitious putting all my reasons down here (as most everyone else on the board is probably sick of me already   ) but I'd be happy to do it if you ask "why the KLR?"

[paddy_crow]

I would add the F800GS to your list.

[Nodaclu]

...but I'd be happy to do it if you ask "why the KLR?"

Guess I've missed it repeatedly over the years, but since I'm about 8 weeks or so from re-joining the cult of bike-owners, and since a KLR is on my short list, I'll go ahead and ask it...

"Why the KLR?"  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Guess I've missed it repeatedly over the years, but since I'm about 8 weeks or so from re-joining the cult of bike-owners, and since a KLR is on my short list, I'll go ahead and ask it...

"Why the KLR?"  

Oh, NOW you asked for it! This is what I came up with off the top of my head... (mind you, this is Gen 1 (pre '07) models. I don't care for the Gen 2 bikes)

Why the KLR?

Pros
- small initial purchase price
- lots of choices in the market place
- massive aftermarket support network
- massive aftermarket parts selection
- stupid-easy to work on/maintain
- very cheap to fit with tires, filters, etc
- resilient to frequent abuse (I figured that I dropped the bike at least 6 times on one ride before I lost track; the only thing to fix was to tweak the bars)
- master of none, jack of all trades; it'll go wherever you want to go
- comfortable (yes, I even like the stock seat)
- awesome gas mileage (mine regularly gets about 54mpg; I've had up to 58
- 6 gal tank + awesome gas mileage = incredible range. I know that I can go for almost 300 miles
- not picky about fuel - it gets the cheapest stuff out there
- don't like it a year later? Sell it at close to your purchase price


Cons
- bad brakes (I ride to avoid, not to stop)
- poor headlights
- low alternator output for accessories (I can run aux lights, heated grips or a heated jacket - just not all at once)
- not the best if you want to easily maintain speeds over 80mph
- the 'doo
- the insane desire to farkle 'til the cows come home  


I bought my bike used (9,600 miles) in 2004. It now has over 75,000 miles on it. I've checked the valves twice (once I needed a new shim). I never had any engine work done. I did upgrade the alternator but a bolt came loose and ate it; I put the OEM back in and it's been fine. I commute daily on it on side streets and interstates. I've taken it from the Arctic Ocean to southern Mexico without a hitch. I've crashed it. I've dropped it. Hell, I've carried a double-basin kitchen sink on it, what more do you need?  

[Cale_Kat]

I've ridden pretty extensively in OR, fire roads and paved. My DL1000 offers a good mix for that sort of travel and if you do get the itch for two-up, it'll take you and the Missus + camping gear to pretty much anywhere the gravel leads.

Pluses:
Blends respectable chassis composure with suspension travel for fun on and off pavement.
Raucous engine note and kick in the butt V-twin torque.
Will cruise all day comfortably at 90 mph.
Good selection luggage and plenty of alternator for electrics.

Minuses:
Mediocre fuel economy.
Mostly ridden by grumpy old men, so little cache.
Suzuki dealers.
Looks.

[KLRchickie]

As the *other* female KLR nut on this site I won't bother to reiterate DD's excellent points in favour of the older model KLR....

Cons
- bad brakes (I ride to avoid, not to stop)

I will say that the above con is somewhat addressed by the one below.

- the insane desire to farkle 'til the cows come home  

The 320mm aftermarket front brake disc that is available for the KLR (with caliper relocating bracket) makes the braking of the KLR *adequate* (as opposed to scary ).  The front brakes of the KLR now have feel, as opposed to the on/off operation of the stock setup.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

As the *other* female KLR nut on this site....

Hi there!!!  

[Nodaclu]

Thank you Colleen for your awesome list of "plus points" for the KLR!!

Thanks to you too KLRchickie!  

I did note that both of you prefer Gen 1 over Gen 2. Could I ask why? I know there seem to be some isolated (or perhaps not so isolated) oil starvation issues with the 08- bikes. But having sat on both, I much preferred the Gen 2.

Could either of you maybe highlight the things about the Gen 2 that don't sit well with you?

Thanks!  

[KLRchickie]

My biggest beef with the Gen 2 is that they made it heavier than the Gen 1.  The put on a "dress-up kit" of more breakable plastics - but didn't address one of the worst points of the Gen 1 --- the 5 speed gearbox.  Had they made the Gen 2 a 6 speed I'd be *very* interested.  

DD can likely address more of the "bads" of the Gen 2 - Dan has one.  I do know that many specimens have very high oil consumption rates.  Often this is fixed with the 685cc kit (which I have also done, awesome mod ) - but you shouldn't *have* to do this on a brand new bike.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Chickie's right: the Gen 2 is much heavier than the Gen 1 - Dan comments on the difference every time he moves both KLRs around in the garage. Other than that, here's another list!  

- cheap, brittle plastics. They don't break; they shatter    Mind you, Dan's dropped his a few times so it's been tweaked, but the holes that hold the upper fairing to the lower fairing eventually spider-webbed their way into oblivion. Dan ended up Dremeling off most of the cracked plastics and drilled holes to try to prevent further cracking (I know those holes have a name, but I can't think of it). Anyway, he has more zip ties than screws holding his plastic on
(on the other side of the coin, I've dropped mine more often than I can count, and I have exactly two zip ties holding any plastic down)

- cheap rubber. I hear that they fixed this after the first year's model, but the rubber used in connections, etc, is brittle and cracked easily. He had to replace all four turn signal mounts (warranty work) and took out the CA stuff, most of which was falling apart. He noted that my '01 had good rubber where his had disintegrated within the first year

- oil burning. Varies from bike to bike, but I've never had an issue with my Gen 1. Dan's bike isn't too bad, but the level does need to be watched

- fuel mileage. A touchy one, as it varies from bike to bike and rider to rider, but I get around 55mpg while Dan might get 48mpg. He's not an overly aggressive rider, either.

- side stand. Weird, but right out of the box, the Gen 2 side stand is too long. I thought it was just Dan's bike (it fell over into a car in a parking lot once; we fixed it after that) but on the KLR forum there are other people who have that issue.

- poor workmanship. While in the middle of Nowhere, OR I noticed something shiny next to Dan's bike. It was a subframe bolt. I realize that KLR's lose bolts all of the time, but a subframe bolt on a bike less than a year old? It seemed quirky. And now the weld holding the cross piece between the frames that that rear of the gas tank mounts to has broken. This shouldn't be a high-stress area where welds break  


The bike does have some positives, however

- apparently the brakes are better. I'll take the masses' word on it, because I think they still suck (but they're better than Gen 1)   

- the headlight is supposed to be better. Good, because the Gen 1 sucks. I will note that Dan's bulb burned out within the first year of ownership

- I think they did something to the suspension, but I haven't noticed and not many people on the KLR forum use it as a point of praise

- better wind protection. If you have any plastic left, it should keep the wind off your knees  




I'm such a grump when it comes to Dan's bike  

[Cale_Kat]

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/kawasaki_klr_650_2008.php
Dry weight:   175.5 kg (387.0 pounds)

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/kawasaki_klr_650_2000.php
Dry weight:   168.0 kg (370.4 pounds)

7.5 kg difference. Doesn't seem like much to me.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/kawasaki_klr_650_2008.php
Dry weight:   175.5 kg (387.0 pounds)

http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/kawasaki_klr_650_2000.php
Dry weight:   168.0 kg (370.4 pounds)

7.5 kg difference. Doesn't seem like much to me.

Literally, it's NOT that big of a difference. But pushing those two bikes around in the garage is like night and day. Maybe it's where the weight is located? I honestly have no idea. I don't ride Dan's bike enough to have a comment on how the bike feels while under way, which I guess is the more important factor. Although I will say that while it might be mental (that wouldn't be surprising) but his bike does feel a little top heavy compared to mine when riding...

[atadaskew]

I'd pick a Suzi Dr650 over the KLR.
All it needs is a bigger gas tank (aftermarket).
I've had a KLR and found it lacking, especially in the motor and brakes.  Mine had a pipe and airbox mod, suspension done, braided brake lines.  Still, well, mediocre.  If you're happy just to be moving and like a big gas tank then I guess it's swell..

The DR has more motor, is lighter, better suspension and brakes, better off road, the same on road if you do the necessary mods i.e. re-shape the seat and add a shield, some say it is more reliable.

[Nodaclu]

Thanks again DD for sharing your thoughts.

All these comments make me think that maybe I should save a bit more cash and get an F650GS if I want to go the thumper route. Of course, Poofie didn't exactly have the best luck with hers....  

I don't know what the heck I'm going to end up with....probably the first thing I find that looks halfway interesting at this point...LOL.

[R Doug]

I'd pick a Suzi Dr650 over the KLR.
All it needs is a bigger gas tank (aftermarket).
I've had a KLR and found it lacking, especially in the motor and brakes.  Mine had a pipe and airbox mod, suspension done, braided brake lines.  Still, well, mediocre.  If you're happy just to be moving and like a big gas tank then I guess it's swell..

The DR has more motor, is lighter, better suspension and brakes, better off road, the same on road if you do the necessary mods i.e. re-shape the seat and add a shield, some say it is more reliable.

Great suggestion.  The DR and KLR are the best bang for the buck dual sport bikes out there.  

KLR is better than the DR for longer bits of paved stuff

DR is better than the KLR off road.  

[R Doug]

PS…

The Versys and the Multi all have off road ergos making you, the rider, feel more comfortable off road.  But, these are pretty much on road bikes.  Think of them as an AWD crossover SUV.

The KLR, DR, and 650GS are more off-road ready with the ergos and the suspension to better handle off road conditions.  These bikes can also be used for touring with the right farkels.  I know a guy from WV who traveled to California and back on a DR w/ an aftermarket seat and windscreen.   Two GREAT bikes in the large thumper area is the KTM 690 Enduro and the BMW 800GS.  They're not cheap, but they can truly deliver the best of both worlds.  With these bikes, you have an adequate touring rig and an adequate off-roader.  Think of these bikes as a no freels Jeep Wrangler.

If you want something bigger than the bikes mentioned in the above paragraph, the BMW GS (the big one) and KTM 990 Adventure are what you need to consider.  With these “big trailie” bikes, you have excellent touring abilities and good to fair off road ability.  You can think of these bikes as Land Rover luxury sport utes.  

If you prefer more off-road ability, there are bikes like the DRZ400, Husky TEs, and the KTM EXCs.  Here, you are getting into bikes that come the closest to a full on dirt bike but you fall below the adequate status in terms of touring ability.  These bikes are more like serious modified off-road Jeeps.  

[R Doug]

Oh yea, one more thing....

In regards to the smaller thumpers mentioned in the last paragraph above, you can get moto wheels and tard the bikes to go terrorize your local go-kart track and favorite twisty bits of paved road.  After riding a proper tard, you'll wonder why you'll need a Monster in your garage.  

Ask me how I know.  

[KLRchickie]

After riding a proper tard, you'll wonder why you'll need a Monster in your garage.  

Ask me how I know.  

Whadda ya mean?!

Monsters & Motards make great friends!


They're different *types* of squidly fun!

[UFO]

MTS 1200

Uhh, the MTS isn't a "dual sport" bike...then again, neither is the giant GS in my opinion.

[Nodaclu]

Was looking at a Seca II as a potential purchase in another thread, so I found one locally to go sit on yesterday (it was absolutely trashed and the sale price was crazy high, but it served its purpose for answering a question I had).

It was then that I remembered that I'm all legs.  

I was bound up like a pretzel on the Seca II. It was workable, but not comfortable. It reminded me that I even found the pegs on my DL650 to be a little higher up than I'd like. This has been one of the biggest stumbling blocks for me in terms of comfort on long terms trips. My knees start to lock up after an hour in the saddle, causing constant stops and limiting my range on any given day. (Even on a route that's 50% freeways, it can still take me 10 hours to ride 300 miles - just need to stop and stretch too many times - that and the fact that I eat WAY too much on the road.   ),

The same place I looked at the Seca II also had an 07 KLR for sale. I wanted to sit on it, but it was wedged in a corner. I was also trying to keep the 14 year old daughter from climbing all over the dirt bikes on the showroom floor... .

I need to go back and throw a leg over to get a feel for the ergos. I'm probably a 95% road, 5% Jeep trails kind of rider, but I'm also slow and have found my comfortable limits in the twisties. Now I just want to kick back and enjoy the view around me.

Wow....I think I'm talking myself into a KLR.  

I really like the idea of something simple, basic, reliable, easy to work on, and easy to find loads of aftermarket parts for (the same thing that's making me lean toward a 4.0 Liter TJ-Series Jeep Wrangler as my next automobile).

Nice 2001 KLR 650 here locally for $2000.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/1898292022.html

To bad I won't have the cash until next month.  

[Nodaclu]

Found a nice 1990 Tengai for $1,850. I forgot about them.....L-O-V-E these bikes!!



Since I'm looking at 95% street riding and 5% dirt roads (no trails), it makes some sense to me to go this route.

I know there are some differences - especially involving the bodywork. Anything different that would prevent adding hard luggage to the Tengai's?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Nice 2001 KLR 650 here locally for $2000.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/1898292022.html

To bad I won't have the cash until next month.  

Damn - that is a good deal     You could always go look at it and if it speaks to you, give him some sort of deposit to hold it for you (unless he needs the cash immediately). Just write up some sort of agreement that he holds the bike (and it remains in the condition its in) until you come back with the balance. If you're not back by day "X", then the money is forfeit. Or something like that...


Because that's a nice looking bike at a great price  

[Nodaclu]

Also just found another Tengai with 26K on the clock that I may be able to get for right around $1K. At that price, I could afford to rebuild the whole thing if I had to.   I'll check it out on Friday or Saturday.

If that falls through, I'll probably talk to the guy selling the 2001. I'm noticing that there seems to be plenty of KLR's on the market out here, and they aren't moving real quickly. I know there's some good deals to be had out there.

[atadaskew]

Found a nice 1990 Tengai for $1,850. I forgot about them.....L-O-V-E these bikes!!



Since I'm looking at 95% street riding and 5% dirt roads (no trails), it makes some sense to me to go this route.

I know there are some differences - especially involving the bodywork. Anything different that would prevent adding hard luggage to the Tengai's?

Man, I remember drooling over those when I was broke and in school.  I guess the Versys is the equivalent now..

[DogBoy]

Wow....I think I'm talking myself into a KLR.  

I really like the idea of something simple, basic, reliable, easy to work on, and easy to find loads of aftermarket parts for (the same thing that's making me lean toward a 4.0 Liter TJ-Series Jeep Wrangler as my next automobile).

I've got a 2006 DR650 with low miles (4400) that I'm probably going to sell real soon. Even if thats not exactly what you're looking for, you're welcome to come give it a look and take a spin so you can check it off the list. I'm local.



edit for clarity.

[Nodaclu]

I've got a 2006 DR650 with low miles (4400) that I'm probably going to sell real soon. Even if thats exactly what you're looking for, you're welcome to come give it a look and take a spin so you can check it off the list. I'm local.

Thanks, I appreciate that! I just may take you up on it.