WIfe's First, Reconsidered. FUEL INJECTED STARTER BIKE?

[mtbjay]

Hey, it's me again...

Today, we checked out a GS500f for my wife's first bike.  Manual Choke's scare me...  I'm old enough to have dealt with a few cars and bikes (and lawn mowers) and such to not get too freaked out when they won't/don't start... but I really don't think I want to sign her up for that.  Besides a Ninja 250 and the Honda Hornet CB600 what other easy-to-ride bikes can y'all come up with that'r fuel injected??  

She likes the initial feel of the light-weights, cruiser's and standards (Rebel, Nighthawk).  I spotted the new-to-the-US Suzuki TU250, but I have yet to see on used.  Budget $2,500 or less.

[nater]

I can't think of anything small that is fuel injected.  I wouldn't be concerned about carbarators.  Filp the choke, start it, let it warm up a little, take the choke off, go riding.  It's pretty easy.

[cultureslayer]

I know you can adjust the idle mix on the 250 carbs, I'd assume it'd be an option for the others as well.  Makes things much easier.

[Tyrroneous]

Don't be afraid of carbs.  They've done the job for a long time.  

There's a guy on here selling a super clean '96 Yamaha Seca II which would make an excellent starter bike.  

[dorklord]

My wife did just fine on a carb'd ninja 250, she'd never operated anything with a choke before. It really isn't a big deal.

On the other hand, when she was ready to move up, her bottom line requirement was FI. There is something to be said for being able to simply turn on the key, push the button, and you are ready to roll.

But most people don't keep their first bike for long (even if that first bike isn't a traditional 'starter' bike), so I wouldn't worry about it. Get her something she's comfortable with, and it'll probably make her appreciate FI later on.

[bluepoof]

What's wrong with a manual choke?    It's not really rocket science to just let the bike warm up for 2 minutes while you're putting your helmet on anyway.  

[SilverHound]

What's wrong with a manual choke?    It's not really rocket science to just let the bike warm up for 2 minutes while you're putting your helmet on anyway.  

 +1   Seriously. It's a choke not a space shuttle launch pre-flight check routine.

[ANZAC]

Don't be afraid of a bike with a choke and carbs - embrace the carbs and choke     The throttle is much smoother on a carb'd bike comapired to an FI one.  Think of the difference between analog (carb) and digital (FI).

[atadaskew]

  Besides a Ninja 250 and the Honda Hornet CB600 what other easy-to-ride bikes can y'all come up with that'r fuel injected??  

You do know that the Ninja 250 has carbs in the US?  Euro it is FI.

[Kootenanny]

I'm old enough to have dealt with a few cars and bikes (and lawn mowers) and such to not get too freaked out when they won't/don't start... but I really don't think I want to sign her up for that.

Sorry to be so blunt, but if she can't learn how to work a choke, is she really ready to ride safely on the street?

[mtbjay]

Oh, Poseur, STFU.  Anyone's who's flooded a carb knows what a pain that can be.  I don't think working a manual choke has anything to do with riding safely (or having fun doing it for that matter..).  


Two things I've learned in my queries:

   1.  Throttle response is smooth and forgiving on the GS500 carb'd bike I test rode (good for newbee).

   2.  The GS500 lacks an accelerator pump so it can't be flooded (apparently).

Thanks for all the replies everyone.  We'll what the training course brings...   She may want to start on a Rebel based on her comfort level and experiences in class.  The dominant wisdom passed along seems to be recommending the lighter, lower, slower bikes to start.  Honestly, it's been hard to view the GS500 as a "big" bike after riding one.  I'll let her decide what feels "big" after the course and support her choice for either the GS500 or Rebel.  I don't think I'll get her on a fuel injected Ninja though...

Cheers,


Jason

[ConPilot1]

Sorry to be so blunt, but if she can't learn how to work a choke, is she really ready to ride safely on the street?

There's some wisdom there.  
You should have some understanding of your machine + how it works before you mount up.

[bomber]

Here's another vote for a carbed bike -- many FI scoots are pretty sensitive to small amounts of throttle right off idle -- I would think that would be more daunting for a new rider than dealing with a choke.

[sammyseaman]

Oh, Poseur, STFU.  Anyone's who's flooded a carb knows what a pain that can be.  I don't think working a manual choke has anything to do with riding safely (or having fun doing it for that matter..).  

I...... can't........ resist. Another sign of the pussification of America. Ahhhhh..... I feel better now.

[Kootenanny]

...I don't think working a manual choke has anything to do with riding safely (or having fun doing it for that matter..).

But, it does.

Working a choke is dead easy...many people have done it for decades.  It simply requires one to do certain things in a particular order.  Now, safe riding often requires one to do certain things in a particular order--for example, at a stop sign, it is generally accepted that we stop, look both ways, determine if there is approaching traffic, then move off (which in itself requires a series of steps involving brakes, clutch, and throttle) if safe.  If we do things in the wrong order (such as, move off before determining if there is traffic approaching), we are not demonstrating safe riding.

I'm simply suggesting that if you believe your wife is capable of performing all the mental steps required to ride safely (and I'm sure she is), she certainly shouldn't have any trouble remembering to operate the choke on startup (and I doubt she would).


(Now, that all said, I admit I prefer FI myself, but I wouldn't rule out a bike simply because it doesn't have FI...indeed, the bike I've been considering for my own wife, an XT225, is carbureted;)

[bluepoof]

..indeed, the bike I've been considering for my own wife, an XT225, is carbureted;)

Off-topic:

The XT225 rocks! Such an awesome bike.  

On-topic:

You do have to warm it up for a few minutes (more than my other carb'ed bikes, to be honest), but it runs really well in general and the, like, twice I've ever flooded it just means you say "oh poo" and wait for <5 minutes then try again.

Such a great bike.  

[5nines]

I...... can't........ resist. Another sign of the pussification of America. Ahhhhh..... I feel better now.

+1

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Oh, Poseur, STFU.  Anyone's who's flooded a carb knows what a pain that can be.  I don't think working a manual choke has anything to do with riding safely (or having fun doing it for that matter..).  

I have 3 carb'ed vehicles and cannot honestly remember the last time one of them flooded. It should be a non-issue when considering which bike to buy.

[cultureslayer]

I have 3 carb'ed vehicles and cannot honestly remember the last time one of them flooded. It should be a non-issue when considering which bike to buy.

+1, only the 3 carbed bikes haven't been at the same time, and they've all been the same model.  only PITA is when I am running late for work in the winter.  

[sammyseaman]

+1, only the 3 carbed bikes haven't been at the same time, and they've all been the same model.  only PITA is when I am running late for work in the winter.  

Pfffttttt.... women  

[DogBoy]

The Hayabusa is FI.

[Kootenanny]

The Hayabusa is FI.

Well, that just fixes everything!

[sammyseaman]

Well, that just fixes everything!

Yes, but unfortunately it doesn't fix this thread.

[Marcster]

The Suzuki TU250 is fuel-injected (and pretty sharp lookin' too):



http://www.suzukicycles.com/Product%20Lines/Cycles/Products/TU250/2011/TU250.aspx?category=standard

Review: http://www.motorcycleforum.com/frontpage/?p=vB99334

[Kootenanny]

BTW, there is this new, FI 400 available (well, in Canada, anyway): http://www.kawasaki.ca/model/ninja-400r:1256

[Scubadvr]

Suzuki SV650 would be an excellent choice, as well.

[ConPilot1]

Can't understand why anybody would recommend a modern 600cc class sportbike for somebody's 1st motorcycle.
Death on wheels for somebody with NO experience.

[Scubadvr]

Can't understand why anybody would recommend a modern 600cc class sportbike for somebody's 1st motorcycle.
Death on wheels for somebody with NO experience.

You don't quote which person you are responding to, but since your post follows mine, I'll assume your rhetoric is aimed at my post.  I didn't recommend an SV650SF, I recommended an SV650.

I wouldn't even remotely classify the SV650 as a "600cc class sportbike."  It's a standard bike with a very user-friendly, relatively tame V-twin.  Nowhere near the steering geometry, gear ratios or horsepower of, say, a Ninja 650 or Yammy R6.  Different ballpark entirely, and I would stand by my original recommendation.

Oh, and it's FI, one of the original poster's requirements.  Just a recommendation and something for the original poster and his wife to consider.

[sammyseaman]

I don't think it matters anymore. You all scared him off. Nice work  

 

[ConPilot1]

You don't quote which person you are responding to, but since your post follows mine, I'll assume your rhetoric is aimed at my post.  I didn't recommend an SV650SF, I recommended an SV650.

I wouldn't even remotely classify the SV650 as a "600cc class sportbike."  It's a standard bike with a very user-friendly, relatively tame V-twin.  Nowhere near the steering geometry, gear ratios or horsepower of, say, a Ninja 650 or Yammy R6.  Different ballpark entirely, and I would stand by my original recommendation.

Oh, and it's FI, one of the original poster's requirements.  Just a recommendation and something for the original poster and his wife to consider.

There's no rhetoric involved at all, and yes I was referring to your post. It is my opinion that a total beginner should be plunked onto a 250 or something similar to learn the
basics of operating a motorcycle such as clutch/throttle/brake coordination and shifting and steering basics. Things that we take forgranted and have become 2nd nature to the
experienced rider. Then move up to a bike in this class, as forgiving and user friendly as it is for one of us, maybe. That twin 650 is probably putting out 60-75 HP and the little I know about twins
they're torquey with a lot of low-end and mid grunt. We all have our opinions but if it were one of MY kids or SO I wouldn't be putting them on a 650 to start out when they havn't even
got the concept of clutch/throttle/braking down pat yet.

[Scubadvr]

It is my opinion that a total beginner should be plunked onto a 250 or something similar to learn the basics of operating a motorcycle such as clutch/throttle/brake coordination and shifting and steering basics.

I agree with you in all of your points, except for the size of the motor, and only for this specific bike.  The thing caught my eye was the sportbike reference, and I couldn't agree more that a sportbike is the wrong choice for a beginner.

Things that we take forgranted and have become 2nd nature to the experienced rider. Then move up to a bike in this class, as forgiving and user friendly as it is for one of us, maybe. That twin 650 is probably putting out 60-75 HP and the little I know about twins
they're torquey with a lot of low-end and mid grunt.

I used to feel exactly the same way, and I used to exclusively recommend starting out on a 250cc-class bike for beginners.  The SV engine in this configuration, though, has a very linear and predictable power band, with no top end "surge."  In the interest of full disclosure, I went back and more carefully read the original post, and see that the rider has less experience than I first thought (there was a mention that she liked how several bikes felt, so I assumed she already had some experience).  Since they were already considering a GS500F, I didn't feel the SV650 was a stretch.

We all have our opinions but if it were one of MY kids or SO I wouldn't be putting them on a 650 to start out when they havn't even
got the concept of clutch/throttle/braking down pat yet.

I might.  I'd at least seriously consider the SV650 as an option.  The original poster asked about starter bikes with FI, and I was just giving him an option to consider.

No harm, no foul.

[motormike]

I am a new rider at age 40.  I got my endorsement through the Basic Rider Course in July. I rode a Suzuki DR200 during the course.  That course is excellent for beginners as many of you know.

I am planning on buying a SV650s in the Spring. I rode my brother-in-law's 2005 SV650s several times very cautiously (under 35 mph) before the MSF course.  In fact, I plan on buying his bike.  His has raised handle bars.

The styling, twin engine, and weight are what have me interested in the SV650S.  The stock bars are the most negative feature for me.

[bluepoof]

The SV650S was almost my first bike (I rode a Nighthawk 450 around a parking lot and some side streets for a little while), and while I agree that the engine is very beginner-friendly, if the new rider is a small woman, it can be intimidating.  The bike is somewhat tall and it has a fairly high center of gravity.

Obviously this didn't deter me, as I rode my SVS for almost 80k miles around the USA and Canada, but I also dropped it more times than I can count (I replaced the clutch and brake levers over 20 times).  Homeless people helped me pick up my bike.  It fell over in parking lots, on city streets, in my driveway, on gravel, on asphalt, on inclines, on declines...you name it.

I mention this not because I don't think the SV is a fantastic motorcycle -- it is!! -- but because if I hadn't been so stubborn/passionate about motorcycling, I would have quit because of my experiences as a brand new rider on an SV.

[Kootenanny]

TI mention this not because I don't think the SV is a fantastic motorcycle -- it is!! -- but because if I hadn't been so stubborn/passionate about motorcycling, I would have quit because of my experiences as a brand new rider with a 2" inseam on an SV.

FTFY...






(Ok, ok, but I can make fun of it...I'm a shorty myself, although not quite as short as BP )

[bluepoof]

FTFY...

(Ok, ok, but I can make fun of it...I'm a shorty myself, although not quite as short as BP )

Hey, I specifically said it may be intimidating for small women.  I know the tall freaks are different -- I married a man with a 34" inseam, the bastard.

[Kootenanny]

Hey, I specifically said it may be intimidating for small women.  I know the tall freaks are different -- I married a man with a 34" inseam, the bastard.

Poof, you're an inspiration!

[5nines]

I want to get my SO into riding (and get her off the back of my bike, at least sometimes) this is what I have done so far.
I bought a used big wheel version of a ttr 125 and she is learning (surprisingly quick) to ride in the dirt. Her main concern was being able to flat foot a light bike. The big wheel model puts her on the balls of her feet but that is good, this bike is so light I can lift it into the back of the truck, but, she has to operate the choke and kick it to start (remember those days) that is good also.
I am proud to say she is becoming very proficient although I quickly realized it was better for me to just stand back and watch rather than offer up lots of advise    in a short time she has become VERY COMFORTABLE on a bike.
I will be the first to admit that sliding through a corner on a dirt bike is alot different than dragging your pegs on a street bike, but I firmly believe this is the way to learn to ride and really get in tune with a motorcycle.
I am starting to look for a 250 Ninja for her next bike and once she has that mastered on the street we will go shopping for a bigger bike that she likes (Man I hope it's not a cruiser)  

[bluepoof]

Poof, you're an inspiration!

"Fear not, hobbits! You, too, can marry a tall man!"

[nater]

 once she has that mastered on the street we will go shopping for a bigger bike that she likes (Man I hope it's not a cruiser)  

I agree.  That would be horrible.  Then everytime she rode with you, you would have to go really slow.

[jadziadax8]

Nowhere near the steering geometry, gear ratios or horsepower of, say, a Ninja 650 or Yammy R6.

Wait, wait, wait.  You're comparing a Ninja 650 to an R6?!?!??

 

 

Seriously?  That's a bit like saying my Honda Civic is not unlike a Bugatti.

Change the 650 to a ZX6 and you've got a worthy comparison going on (not that I don't my 650).

[Chuck 500]

As a relatively new rider, I would say that fit to the rider is far more important than FI or not.   A new rider needs to be able to put both feet down.  Only other consideration is avoid too much horsepower.

The Suzuki GS500F you mentioned in the first post would be ideal.  Of course, I prejudiced .  It more than enough power to do any thing you can do on a bike legally.

The main difference from FI bikes, as I see it, is you can't just start and ride.  GS500 has to be warm to run right.  Give it warm up time and it never misses a beat.

Keep the shiny side up,

Chuck

[Kootenanny]

As a relatively new rider, I would say that fit to the rider is far more important than FI or not.   A new rider needs to be able to put both feet down.  

I agree that there are much more important considerations than FI, but I don't agree that "a new rider needs to be able to put both feet down."  If that were true, how would truly short riders (like Bluepoof) ever learn to ride at all?  This kind of thinking is what relegates so many new riders (especially women) to cruisers, since they place too much importance on seat height.

When I taught riding a bazillion years ago, we taught every rider (no matter how tall) to put only one foot down--right from day one.  It is good technique, and therefore something that should be done right from the beginning.  Yes, I know that most new riders feel more stable with both feed on the ground, but that is a crutch which should be tossed right away--and a new rider who learns the "one-foot method" right away won't feel nearly as intimidated by bikes with taller seats (and for short riders, this can be almost all bikes).

[bluepoof]

I agree that there are much more important considerations than FI, but I don't agree that "a new rider needs to be able to put both feet down."  If that were true, how would truly short riders (like Bluepoof) ever learn to ride at all?  This kind of thinking is what relegates so many new riders (especially women) to cruisers, since they place too much importance on seat height.

I was going to say something similar but decided y'all are probably sick of me whining about being a hobbit.

Seriously, though, it's definitely true that new riders don't need to flatfoot (not sure if Chuck meant "flatfooting" or "just able to touch both feet down").  However, while I've never flatfoot a bike in my life, I would agree that it would be less intimidating for a new rider to at least be able to touch toes down on both sides, especially if the bike is top heavy.

[Chuck 500]

Thanks for the comments bluepoof and Kootenanny.  The conversation here can be interesting and informative.  It why I like STN.  I am relatively new (2 yrs., 11K miles) and relatively short (5'6").  I can generally touch toes down on both sides.  Bike is a Suzuki GS500F, seat height 30.5 of so.  I have tried to sit on some taller bikes (V-Strom and the like) but they just feel too tall.  I felt like if the Strom ever started to get away from me I'd have no chance to recover.  Possibly this won't be such a big deal once I have more experience?

Keep the shiny side up,

Chuck

[Kootenanny]

I am relatively new (2 yrs., 11K miles) and relatively short (5'6").  I can generally touch toes down on both sides.  Bike is a Suzuki GS500F, seat height 30.5 of so.  I have tried to sit on some taller bikes (V-Strom and the like) but they just feel too tall.  I felt like if the Strom ever started to get away from me I'd have no chance to recover.  Possibly this won't be such a big deal once I have more experience?

I'm shorter than you are, but I've ridden both the Wee Strom and the V-Strom, and some taller bikes as well...and you're right, when they start feeling really tall, they feel like they might get away from you at a stop.  But...that said, with some experience on taller bikes, that feeling will definitely diminish.  The trick is to get comfortable only having one foot down; if you have to scootch your butt over to one side to do so, then do that (it's surprising how much extra reach you can generate doing that).

[CMS_Sprint]

When my SO decided to make the move away from the Ninja 250 we ended up with a Yamaha FZ6R for her.

You know what she loves most about it? It starts every single time in 2 secs! It seemed that if the Ninja sat for 2 weeks it would protest starting right away. It always got there, but sometimes it took a while. The idle jets in it must have a hole in them the size of a human hair is my guess.

We went trolling around bike week 2 years ago and she sat on all the mid size bikes that weren't super sports (FZ6R, GS650F, Ninja 650) and that's the one she liked the best and felt like she could be comfortable on. She's fairly petit at 5-7 and 115 lbs.

[bluepoof]

She's fairly petit at 5-7

Ha!  Ha haahahahahahahahahahahahhaahahhahah!

Ahem.  Sorry.

I wish I were a "petite" 5'7"!  

[cultureslayer]

You know what she loves most about it? It starts every single time in 2 secs! It seemed that if the Ninja sat for 2 weeks it would protest starting right away. It always got there, but sometimes it took a while. The idle jets in it must have a hole in them the size of a human hair is my guess.

The problem is her not riding it for 2 weeks.  

[CMS_Sprint]

OK I've been corrected, she's 5'6"....Still I guess not that short, but she's pretty small (runner's build?). Still once we lowered the bike a bit she's pretty comfortable on it.

[clempot911]

I would not be too worried about carbs & chokes if the rest of the bike is a good ‘fit’. In fact I have owned several carb’d bikes, and now several fuelies, and to be perfectly honest, most of the carb’d bikes I owned had way better fueling (smoother/progressive) than some of the FI bikes. You would think it would be the other way around, but that hasn’t been my experience. Maybe the manufacturers are fiddling with the maps a little harder because: a) they can, and B) emissions regulations...don’t know, but some have been really screwed up.

None of my bikes that had chokes ever messed up for me (flooding, etc.), I think they are a little better thought out than something on a Briggs&Stratton so comparing them to a lawn mower is probably not the best comparison to make. You just pull the choke out, fire it up, you start pushing it back in slowly until it’s off – that’s it.

The Ninja 250 was one of the best, I’d recommend it to anyone starting out without hesitation. Heck, I’d recommend it to anyone period except if you are heavily into 2-up riding. Even though I now own a 1000, the bike that put the biggest grin on my face time and time again was a lowly 125 2-stroke. It was a Cagiva Mito, and if it was available in the US I’d sell what I have and buy one in a heartbeat.