1200 Sport Starting Issues???

[Blunder]

Man, that sounds nice.   Sorry you have to endure 36 yet again.    Make sure you take some pictures, OK?  You don't have to post them, of course.  

You'll not see 'em here.  

[blakebird]

At key-to-ON the dashboard will read the key code. If the code corresponds to the one memorized, the dashboard will activate the initial check and will allow the ECU for engine starting, via the CAN Bus line.

If the key code is not recognized, the dashboard will not permit for engine starting and on the display will appear the request to insert the code to allow for “manually” engine starting.
To the customer will be delivered two keys with transponder, already memorized from the factory and at every key-to-ON the dashboard will ask to insert the personal 5 digit code, if not yet done:

          you must remember to insert the user code

To insert the personal code one must select the function CODE MODIFICATION

and key in digits on which numeric keypad?

Mine still asks for a user code briefly at startup. I've not had any issues with starting with either key.

[chornbe]

If I thought it a worthy experiment, I'd rip all the electronics out of the thing. That's a diminishing possibility with the ECU & FI systems.

I don't want a key-based immobilizer.
And it irks me that it bugs me for the user code.
It also irks me that I have to press that stupid button 9-b'zillion times if I want to finally get around to entering the user code... which nets me nothing anyway.

Stupid system.
Awesome bike regardless.

[Biking Sailor]

and key in digits on which numeric keypad?

Mine still asks for a user code briefly at startup. I've not had any issues with starting with either key.

You enter the numbers the same as entering the service code to check for faults in diagnostics.  When you get to the proper screen, you push the same button on the left switch gear pushing it a specific number of times, then hold it in to go to next number, repeat process.  Means you select a five digit number with ones and twos.  

When I push the start button, I can release it and the starter continues to run until the engine starts.  Don't remember it doing that early on.  Does everyone work that way, or just my "Guzzi Bitch"?  

AH the fun of my Guzzi!

[chornbe]

You enter the numbers the same as entering the service code to check for faults in diagnostics.  When you get to the proper screen, you push the same button on the left switch gear pushing it a specific number of times, then hold it in to go to next number, repeat process.  Means you select a five digit number with ones and twos.  

When I push the start button, I can release it and the starter continues to run until the engine starts.  Don't remember it doing that early on.  Does everyone work that way, or just my "Guzzi Bitch"?  

AH the fun of my Guzzi!

Mine does that too. Always has. I think there's a time-out to turn it off if it doesn't start.

[MisterSmooth]

...When I push the start button, I can release it and the starter continues to run until the engine starts...

Yeah, they do that.  It's an interesting little quirk, eh?

And I love the bike too, quirkiness and all.    There's something about it that gets me.    It's not a stat sheet bike, it's more like my R1100S.  But it's a better bike than the BMW was.

[chornbe]

But it's a better bike than the BMW was.

OH ZNAP! YOU HEATHEN!

[blakebird]

The key immobilizer doesn't bother me in the least, and didn't with my Ducati.
It would bother the hell out of me if I lost the key...

The 'push and release, it'll go until it starts' is also fine by me. Works as advertised and I don't really consider it strange or a quirk.

When the bike has been sitting in the hot sun all day though.... it doesn't want to fire and settle into an idle like it does first thing in the morning. It has what seems like a pre-set choke circuit - it settles into a fairly high idle for 30 seconds before lowering to 1100rpm standard idle.

When it's been sitting in the sun, I think temp sensors say it doesn't need the choke circuit due to high ambient temperatures, and it won't idle high enough to stay running. You have to babysit the throttle for a minute.
That's about as quirky as the system gets, and it's nothing I think about.

My Ducati was far quirkier, though just as fun and involving to ride.

[johnnyquest]

Just chiming in as a data point. My bike does the same as blakebird's, in that it runs fantastic in the morning when it's cool and has a bit of a hard time in the heat. When it's 105 out it will surge at idle once the motor's warmed up. Strange thing is that if I put the bike in neutral and let the clutch out, the surging will stop. It can also be a bit difficult to start when running errands (multiple short trips) on a hot day, but not always. I just figured it was that Italian "character" that everyone speaks of, or perhaps it's that the bike was born in the cool climes of Northern Italy where it never gets that hot. Makes me wonder if we brought a factory Moto Guzzi mechanic to Arizona how sporadic they would work in the summer heat!

JQ

[bisbonian]

Just chiming in as a data point. My bike does the same as blakebird's, in that it runs fantastic in the morning when it's cool and has a bit of a hard time in the heat. When it's 105 out it will surge at idle once the motor's warmed up. Strange thing is that if I put the bike in neutral and let the clutch out, the surging will stop. It can also be a bit difficult to start when running errands (multiple short trips) on a hot day, but not always. I just figured it was that Italian "character" that everyone speaks of, or perhaps it's that the bike was born in the cool climes of Northern Italy where it never gets that hot. Makes me wonder if we brought a factory Moto Guzzi mechanic to Arizona how sporadic they would work in the summer heat!

JQ

Do you still have the charcoal canister in there?   Mine did that when I first got it, I removed the canister and have no issues whatsoever now and gained a little underseat space.

As for the original starter issue; either on Guzzitech or Wildguzzi someone mentioned that the wires going to the starter relay are undersized at one point and that causes issues.  The had good pictures of how to replace that bit of wire so you may want to check it out.

[blakebird]

Do you still have the charcoal canister in there?   Mine did that when I first got it, I removed the canister and have no issues whatsoever now and gained a little underseat space.

I haven't gotten around to removing mine - but I'd sure make use of the space.
Is there a diagram or post in a thread somewhere that shows/tells which lines to plug or reconnect elsewhere?

[bisbonian]

I haven't gotten around to removing mine - but I'd sure make use of the space.
Is there a diagram or post in a thread somewhere that shows/tells which lines to plug or reconnect elsewhere?

There might be something on Wildguzzi.

It's really pretty straightforward once you get in there and I don't know that you'll really need any instructions.  The hose comes from the canister and then tees into the 2 hose nipples on the outside of the throttle bodies.   I removed the banjo bolts from the throttle bodies that the hose hooked to and replaced them with short allen head bolts, maybe 6mm but I don't remember.  I just reinstall if I want to sync the tb's.

I think the other hose goes to the tank, I spliced into an exiting tee down there somewhere with the other stuff coming out of the tank, or maybe I used the tee off the first hose and spliced it in; I don't remember.

Honestly once you get in there it's fairly obvious.

I was having issues that if the bike sat in the sun it would barely start at all.  Embarrassing in the first week while you're showing it off.  If I opened the fuel cap the pressure would rush out.  Many people suggested just making sure the canister system was working right but since I couldn't find a problem I just removed it.  The bike has never acted up since and I don't have any of the inconsistent idle issues that many talk about.  I've been lambasted in the past for removing it but for me it was a no lose situation and I've never given it another thought.

Remember that the US is the only market that they install the canister in so the manufacturer may not have all that much experience with getting it in there right and making it work.

[chornbe]

 I've been lambasted in the past for removing it but for me it was a no lose situation and I've never given it another thought.

By whom?  

[blakebird]

I've removed the canister from a few bikes.
Most notably the oilhead boxers where it's hung off the bike externally and looks like a KLR tool tube...

If it uglied up the bike like that, it would be off already...but out of sight, out of mind.
First snow, when I feel like some quality garage tinker time and can't ride - will probably be perfect.
Just hoping that's not too soon, the morning temps on the way to work at 5:45am are dropping like a stone. It was 45F the other day and a few days before I was riding in wearing a mesh jacket with no liner....and loving it.

[bisbonian]

By whom?  

No one on here.

Some of those Guzzi guys get a little bent out of shape if you take parts off that were put on in the factory to reduce our emissions.  

The opinion is that you can make it work properly and have a clean bike.  

My opinion was that it was much less work to just remove the darn thing and be finished with the whole mess.

[bisbonian]

Just hoping that's not too soon, the morning temps on the way to work at 5:45am are dropping like a stone. It was 45F the other day and a few days before I was riding in wearing a mesh jacket with no liner....and loving it.

It's 6 pm here in Kuwait right now and still at 111F  High today was probably close to 118.

Even at night high 80's is the coolest it gets.

Next weekend we have a run in memorial of September 11 which starts at 4am in order to beat the heat.  Who gets up and runs at 4am?

I'm told Afghanistan is cooler, but they shoot at you there so it's a trade off.

[Biking Sailor]

The charcoal canister came off mine this weekend, just disconnected the three hoses and plugged them.  Only rode it a bit in about 90 degree heat.  No starting or running issues, but a little early to tell.

Will complete the task (pulling all the hoses off) this fall if all looks good after some more miles and weather conditions to do a proper test.

[johnnyquest]

Yeah, I've been meaning to post up and thank Bisbonian for the advise. One of my biker friends was looking at the cannister and hoses with me and it does look pretty easy to remove. I'm not sweating it too bad at this point as it's starting to cool off here, and it looks like I may be heading out to San Diego at the end of this month for 5 months of training for a new job. I will definitely look into the cannister-ectomy before next summer though.

JQ