Brakes dragging after tire change (fixed!)

[jadziadax8]

I swapped out my Metzlers for a new set of PR2's.  After buttoning it all up, I noticed that my front brakes are dragging.  Not too bad, bike is rideable, but I'd like to figure out what happened.  I've taken brakes off before with no ill effects.

Do the pads need time to bed again?  Is it possible the spacers are backwards?  Will this go away on its own?

Edit- Dammit, logged on as teh spouse...

[chornbe]

I swapped out my Metzlers for a new set of PR2's.  After buttoning it all up, I noticed that my front brakes are dragging.  Not too bad, bike is rideable, but I'd like to figure out what happened.  I've taken brakes off before with no ill effects.

Do the pads need time to bed again?  Is it possible the spacers are backwards?  Will this go away on its own?

Edit- Dammit, logged on as teh spouse...

It's likely a spacer issue, or something misaligned. The pads shouldn't have changed in terms of spacing, etc.

[scottzilla]

If you depressed the pads in to the calipers to have more room to mount the rim you may have some dirt/debris hanging the pistons up.  get some brake cleaner and go to town.
I would also recommend loosening the pinch bolts and axle.  Push up & down a few times on the forks and tighten everything up again.  This will cure any binding.  You do this with the front tire on the ground.  

[Fourstring]

I will try that today.  Thanks!

[TuffguyF4i]

Put front wheel on a front stand.
Loosen axle nuts and swing arm axle holder just a bit.
Spin wheel.  
Hit the front brakes quickly.
Repeat 1-2 times.

Snug bolts back up.

You can use the brakes to allign the front wheel so they do not rub.

[black hills]

Put front wheel on a front stand.
Loosen axle nuts and swing arm axle holder just a bit.
Spin wheel.  
Hit the front brakes quickly.
Repeat 1-2 times.

Snug bolts back up.

You can use the brakes to allign the front wheel so they do not rub.

+1 you simply have the fork tube misaligned, simple fix

[Papa Lazarou]

Or you may be riding an AJS CSR. In which case, a large hammer generally helps to line things up.

[Fourstring]

Well, cleaned the brakes up real good and tried this:

Put front wheel on a front stand.
Loosen axle nuts and swing arm axle holder just a bit.
Spin wheel.  
Hit the front brakes quickly.
Repeat 1-2 times.

Worked perfectly.  Until that last quarter turn to torque it to spec.  

Papa, lend me yer hammer.

[Papa Lazarou]

All yours. The lump hammer, the maul or just the teensy weensy engineering hammer?

[mxvet57]

All yours. The lump hammer, the maul or just the teensy weensy engineering hammer?

Are they right handed or left handed?

[Papa Lazarou]

Are they right handed or left handed?

No idea. I only let my Lombard slaves touch them.

[Fourstring]

Great, Lombard is the next town over.

Forks are delicate and precise, so I'll need the great big maul.




I think what I'm gonna do is go to the guys what adjust suspension at the track day on Labor Day, and see if they'll have a gander.

[thatguy]

Any chance you mixed up wheel spacers? Also when assembling front ends/wheels I snug the axle nut,install calipers and hold the front brake and bounce the forks a few times and then torque things.

[Fourstring]

Well, I'm still having the same trouble- maybe.

My spacers are the same part number, so it's not a spacer issue.  I did bounce the forks and the wheel is a little more free.  I can get one full rotation if I spin the wheel on the stand.  Before, I could only get half a rotation.

I know all brakes drag a little. Is that a normal amount of drag?

[Papa Lazarou]

Probably not.

[scottzilla]

Well, I'm still having the same trouble- maybe.

My spacers are the same part number, so it's not a spacer issue.  I did bounce the forks and the wheel is a little more free.  I can get one full rotation if I spin the wheel on the stand.  Before, I could only get half a rotation.

I know all brakes drag a little. Is that a normal amount of drag?

Nobody ever listens to me...
Loosen pinch bolts, loosen axle a bit, push up and down on the forks.  Tighten axle bolt, tighten pinch bolts.
Don't put it on a front stand.
If this doesn't work, it's your brakes.

[J-Mac]

Remove your brake calipers and spin the wheel. If it spins good, it's something wrong with the brakes. if it's still sluggish, I'm thinking it's something like a speedo hub. Is it the ZX9? Does it have a cable running to the speedo hub? If it's not lined up just right, it'll spin, but not freely. The next thing ya know it'll cook the front wheel bearings.

[scottzilla]

Remove your brake calipers and spin the wheel. If it spins good, it's something wrong with the brakes. if it's still sluggish, I'm thinking it's something like a speedo hub. Is it the ZX9? Does it have a cable running to the speedo hub? If it's not lined up just right, it'll spin, but not freely. The next thing ya know it'll cook the front wheel bearings.

No.  A misaligned wheel will spin fine if it's not spinning against a fixed surface (Like brake pads).

[sammyseaman]

You guys are  

[J-Mac]

I'll bet I'm right about the speedo drive. We'll find out soon enough.

[Fourstring]

Scott, I did try your method, no dice. Mac, I don't have a speedo cable; the wheel spins great w/out brakes on.

I'll take the brakes apart tonight- sad that they're easier to me than a hub.  Thanks everyone.

[scottzilla]

Scott, I did try your method, no dice. Mac, I don't have a speedo cable; the wheel spins great w/out brakes on.

I'll take the brakes apart tonight- sad that they're easier to me than a hub.  Thanks everyone.

Gotta be the brakes.  One of the pistons is hung up on some grit or something.  

[Fourstring]

Gotta be the brakes.  One of the pistons is hung up on some grit or something.  

Fail.

Took the brakes apart, cleaned them to a shine.  Greased all contact points, reassembled.

Loosened the pinch bolts and axle, bounced the bike on the front suspension with the front brake engaged, rear stand on for guidance.  Tightened one side of pinch bolts, tightened the axle, tightened the remaining side of pinch bolts.  I can get half a turn of the wheel.

I suck.  I'm sitting out the track day on Monday.   

Edit- In anyone's experience, do mechanics usually come out to track days whom might be able to look at my wheel?

[scottzilla]

Fail.

Took the brakes apart, cleaned them to a shine.  Greased all contact points, reassembled.

Loosened the pinch bolts and axle, bounced the bike on the front suspension with the front brake engaged, rear stand on for guidance.  Tightened one side of pinch bolts, tightened the axle, tightened the remaining side of pinch bolts.  I can get half a turn of the wheel.

I suck.  I'm sitting out the track day on Monday.   

Edit- In anyone's experience, do mechanics usually come out to track days whom might be able to look at my wheel?

If you have guys that mount tires at the track, you could give that a try.  
It's totally suspicious that this happened after you did the tire change.  This eliminates warped rotors and warped calipers.
How about this one: wheel bearing.  the bearing is not seated exactly as it was prior to the change (That would be impossible).  The bearing wore a bit from being cocked, you reinstall and the high spot is in a different place.  This would cause drag at least until you wore the bearing down again.
When you removed the brake pads, were they wearing evenly?

[jadziadax8]

It's totally suspicious that this happened after you did the tire change.  This eliminates warped rotors and warped calipers.

I agree with the first part 100%.  Help me with the 2nd, though- what's the difference between a warped caliper and a stuck caliper?

The brakes were worn evenly when I changed the tire; the pads were only a couple thousand miles old anyway.  The wheel turns silently and freely with the brakes off.  Maybe I need to revisit the stuck caliper?

-I'm taking the pads off
-Cleaning the pin and retaining spring with a wire brush and brake cleaner
-Push calipers in (piss-cup is open)
-Shooting a bit of brake cleaner into the caliper, wiping clean
-greasing the back of the pads, pin, and contact points
-reassembling

What did I miss/do half-ass?

Edit: and again, Nate posts as me.  You'd think he'd learn to look.

[KLRchickie]

 

-I'm taking the pads off
-Cleaning the pin and retaining spring with a wire brush and brake cleaner
-Push calipers in (piss-cup is open)
-Shooting a bit of brake cleaner into the caliper, wiping clean
-greasing the back of the pads, pin, and contact points
-reassembling

What did I miss/do half-ass?

Try pushing the pistons OUT a bit as the first step of this sequence.  With the caliper off the rotor, squeeze the brake lever until the pads seat together, then pop out the pads, clean the parts of the pistons that are showing & proceed as above.  I don't use brake cleaner, as I can't breathe around the stuff.  I find methyl hydrate & a q-tip do the job just fine.  Sometimes a piston sticks a bit & I have to fiddle with things to make them all move out of the caliper a similar amount.  You really need to clean the ring of crap that has accumulated on the piston at the caliper off - preferably *before* you force it into the seal.

I clean front brakes pretty much every time we have a reason to have a front wheel off.  At least every tire change, there seems to end up being a reason in between tire changes too

Good luck!

[scottzilla]

I agree with the first part 100%.  Help me with the 2nd, though- what's the difference between a warped caliper and a stuck caliper?

The brakes were worn evenly when I changed the tire; the pads were only a couple thousand miles old anyway.  The wheel turns silently and freely with the brakes off.  Maybe I need to revisit the stuck caliper?

-I'm taking the pads off
-Cleaning the pin and retaining spring with a wire brush and brake cleaner
-Push calipers in (piss-cup is open)
-Shooting a bit of brake cleaner into the caliper, wiping clean
-greasing the back of the pads, pin, and contact points
-reassembling

What did I miss/do half-ass?

It's rare but calipers can warp the same way a brake rotor can warp.  Basically the caliper gets out of shape from heat cycles.
A stuck caliper isn't necessarly warped, just stuck, or binding or not depressing all the way, etc.  This is generally caused by debris, leaking seals, etc.  A warped caliper can "Function" perfectly but still be warped.
You pushed the calipers in, then cleaned the pistons?  Lots of grit & junk can still be stuck to the sides of the pistons.  You hid the stuff when you pushed the pistons back in.  This can absolutely cause a caliper to get hung up.  The pads, as they wear slowly, expose more & more of the pistons to debris.  When you install new pads (OR push the old pads in) all this stuff remains stuck to the sides and forced in to the calipers.  These parts are sealed, so you can't clean them unless you get the pistons back out again,.  I always clean my pistons prior to depressing them for wheel/pad removal.

[scottzilla]

 

Try pushing the pistons OUT a bit as the first step of this sequence.  With the caliper off the rotor, squeeze the brake lever until the pads seat together, then pop out the pads, clean the parts of the pistons that are showing & proceed as above.  I don't use brake cleaner, as I can't breathe around the stuff.  I find methyl hydrate & a q-tip do the job just fine.  Sometimes a piston sticks a bit & I have to fiddle with things to make them all move out of the caliper a similar amount.  You really need to clean the ring of crap that has accumulated on the piston at the caliper off - preferably *before* you force it into the seal.

I clean front brakes pretty much every time we have a reason to have a front wheel off.  At least every tire change, there seems to end up being a reason in between tire changes too

Good luck!

Agreed.  Clean with the pistons out.  This is what I poorly described in my reply to jadz.

[thatguy]

Any chance you bent a rotor? Worth a look.

[chornbe]

Any chance you bent a rotor? Worth a look.

That was going to be my suggestion as well.  

It doesn't take much and if a tool was resting on the rotor during a tire swap, and some pressure was applied...

[MadMax96]

Any chance you bent a rotor? Worth a look.

I was thinking this too.  After all this PLEEEEASE don't say you were pushing on the tire with the wheel on the bare floor.  

[Fourstring]

I used a dial on the rotors- they're fine.  I keep an old burgman tire around for this exact purpose.

I guess I've got another date with my brakes. Buh.

[tomek]

Scottzilla and others pretty much covered everything,,,,,,,front wheel installed backward ?,,,,,,, usually they are not symmetrical,,,,,,

[Fourstring]

Agreed.  Clean with the pistons out.  This is what I poorly described in my reply to jadz.

That did it!  Two calipers on each side were frozen up.  Two beer job with a tooth brush, some wood blocks, and a bottle o' Dawn.  Great tip on getting the pistons out; the surface was clean, but grunge had seeped it's way to the sides.  Turns out the tire change wasn't bad, but it did bring to light something else that was already wrong.

Thanks everyone.  STN comes through again; I'd still have a broken bike if it wasn't for your help.

[scottzilla]

Well, the important thing is I was right.

Glad it worked out.

[veefer800canuck]

Yay!