Are we raising a generation of nincompoops?

[KenH]

Jason, I know exactly what you mean about the many degrees of motivation in Hispanic kids. The last public school position I had before retiring from full time teaching was in a predominantly (~90%) Hispanic middle school. some of them would rush in, read the learning objective on the board, look up the subject in the glossary, and start reading. Others simply came to school to victimize a captive audience. The rest in between.

[antvq]

When I was in basic training back when Moses was a Corporal....we had an older guy in our platoon.  He had been a stock broker but wanted some "excitment" in his life so he joined the Army.  

He never made it out of basic. He was let go "for the good of the service".    The guy was book smart beyond belief, but had no common sense at all.

[dm_gsxr]

When I was in basic training back when Moses was a Corporal....we had an older guy in our platoon.  He had been a stock broker but wanted some "excitment" in his life so he joined the Army.  

He never made it out of basic. He was let go "for the good of the service".    The guy was book smart beyond belief, but had no common sense at all.

Heh, we had a similar situation back when I was an MP. You have two types of patrolling. Security Patrol which is running out to check the ranges and rattling locks at the Exchange or Commissary making sure things are secure and regular Patrol which is the street patrolling; domestic violence, drunks, speeders, etc.

This guy was on SP but for some reason he went to the Senior NCO Club and ticketed everybody who had parked in the circle around the entrance. He must have written 20 parking tickets. Needless to say he got a little talking to about the appropriateness of someone on Security Patrol leaving his area of operations to write parking tickets and questions about whether he had enough to do.

Heck, I still remember his name (it was close to mine) and have barracks pictures of him cleaning shaving cream and stickers off of his door (something about him being a "pencil dick" ).

Carl

[bomber]

People need to quit coddling their damn kids so much and let them grow the F up.  It's more like people are raising a generation of pussies.  Hence the pussification of America continues  

If your grandpa is still around, go talk to him. You'll be in complete agreement, except you'll be talking about different generations.

[Thunderbox]

Ask any teacher ... once they get to know the kids, they can tell you (more times than not) who's most likely to "make it" and who's not.

Not to say kids can't change with time and schooling ... that's what school is supposed to do for them.

And they follow them for a lifetime to reinforce their hypothisis?  Get real.  I doubt that.  Teachers that think like that have no business in a classroom.  No wonder young people have problems.  If a teacher tells you you are not going to make it you might not.  It's the way the mind works and you cannot change that.  If a teacher ever said anything like that to a student they should be fired on the spot.  We pay them to teach not to judge.

[mjrfd99]

Cash Cab should do a shout out question on MLK Blvd.  

[Galaxy Being]

And they follow them for a lifetime to reinforce their hypothisis?  Get real.  I doubt that.  Teachers that think like that have no business in a classroom.  No wonder young people have problems.  If a teacher tells you you are not going to make it you might not.  It's the way the mind works and you cannot change that.  If a teacher ever said anything like that to a student they should be fired on the spot.  We pay them to teach not to judge.

  ... boy, that was a lot of reading between the lines.  The "theory" is if someone is a total failure in school, then they will most likely also be a failure in life.  More times then not, it's probably a pretty true correlation.  Go to any prison and see how many of them are well educated and were a bang up student in school compared to not.  

[Thunderbox]

  ... boy, that was a lot of reading between the lines.  The "theory" is if someone is a total failure in school, then they will most likely also be a failure in life.  More times then not, it's probably a pretty true correlation.  Go to any prison and see how many of them are well educated and were a bang up student in school compared to not.  

Not quite what was meant.  If you tell someone they are accident prone and you are an authority figure of some type and they sanction that thought, that they are accident prone, their creative subcontious will try to keep there life in order with that belief.  They will be accident prone because the mind will try to keep to the known reality, causing them to do things that make accidents happen.  If you are one of those people who are always late and you believe you are,  why does that happen?  Because the creative subconcious will make you do things that cause you to be late.  We behave in the manner to which we believe we are.  It's not an accident that we are like this, it's the way the human mind works.  You cannot change that.  People become failures in school for many reasons and some of those reasons have to do with what they are told and what they believe.  Be careful when dealing with people that you don't say things that they may believe if you really want to make positive change in those around you.

[Galaxy Being]

Not quite what was meant.  If you tell someone they are accident prone and you are an authority figure of some type and they sanction that thought, that they are accident prone, their creative subcontious will try to keep there life in order with that belief.  They will be accident prone because the mind will try to keep to the known reality, causing them to do things that make accidents happen.  If you are one of those people who are always late and you believe you are,  why does that happen?  Because the creative subconcious will make you do things that cause you to be late.  We behave in the manner to which we believe we are.  It's not an accident that we are like this, it's the way the human mind works.  You cannot change that.  People become failures in school for many reasons and some of those reasons have to do with what they are told and what they believe.  Be careful when dealing with people that you don't say things that they may believe if you really want to make positive change in those around you.

Where did I say or quote that teachers are telling students that they will be failures?  Maybe some teachers might operate that way, but I believe the majority of them are there to help kids in any way they can, and try to give them needed support in any way they can.  At least that's how I remember my teachers.  Sure, there might be a few a-hole teachers out there ... but it doesn't take long for the students to realize collectively who those teachers are, and then those students probably will not respect or listen to anything they say or do.

[black hills]

Jason, I know exactly what you mean about the many degrees of motivation in Hispanic kids. The last public school position I had before retiring from full time teaching was in a predominantly (~90%) Hispanic middle school. some of them would rush in, read the learning objective on the board, look up the subject in the glossary, and start reading. Others simply came to school to victimize a captive audience. The rest in between.

Jeez, they almost sound like white kids

[KenH]

... We behave in the manner to which we believe we are.  It's not an accident that we are like this, it's the way the human mind works.  You cannot change that.  ...

Oh, change is possible. Not probable, but possible. Most people are too uncomfortable with change to make any effort at it. Sad, isn't it.

Jeez, they almost sound like white kids

Pretty much, but the rstios differ.

[Thunderbox]

Where did I say or quote that teachers are telling students that they will be failures?  Maybe some teachers might operate that way, but I believe the majority of them are there to help kids in any way they can, and try to give them needed support in any way they can.  At least that's how I remember my teachers.  Sure, there might be a few a-hole teachers out there ... but it doesn't take long for the students to realize collectively who those teachers are, and then those students probably will not respect or listen to anything they say or do.

Where did I say you said that??????????????

[cultureslayer]

Not quite what was meant.  If you tell someone they are accident prone and you are an authority figure of some type and they sanction that thought, that they are accident prone, their creative subcontious will try to keep there life in order with that belief.  They will be accident prone because the mind will try to keep to the known reality, causing them to do things that make accidents happen.  If you are one of those people who are always late and you believe you are,  why does that happen?  Because the creative subconcious will make you do things that cause you to be late.  We behave in the manner to which we believe we are.  It's not an accident that we are like this, it's the way the human mind works.  You cannot change that.  People become failures in school for many reasons and some of those reasons have to do with what they are told and what they believe.  Be careful when dealing with people that you don't say things that they may believe if you really want to make positive change in those around you.

I  hate this American "everyone can do anything" BS.  I am 5'5"  I realized that trying to move to Milan and become a fashion model was not a good career choice.  Some kids are not that smart and need a little guidance.  There are so many people that would have been better off going to trade school instead of college.  I have met several that got a BA in something useless then had to go to trade school to find a job!  Now they have a lot more debt than they would have if someone had sat them down and talked business about their career options and what they could do with a BA in art history.

I tutor and I see some kids that just need a little extra help, and others trying desperately to get into college that really should consider other options.  I can't tell their parents that though.  Nooo, this is america and every kid with an IQ above 70 is supposed to get into massive debt to go to college.  I hate how people ignore that everyone is different, and what is right for one person is a bad idea for another.  This is why trade schools are empty and universities are full of students that are miserable because they are in over their head.  

[Hardware]

I  hate this American "everyone can do anything" BS.  I am 5'5"  I realized that trying to move to Milan and become a fashion model was not a good career choice.  Some kids are not that smart and need a little guidance.  There are so many people that would have been better off going to trade school instead of college.  I have met several that got a BA in something useless then had to go to trade school to find a job!  Now they have a lot more debt than they would have if someone had sat them down and talked business about their career options and what they could do with a BA in art history.

I tutor and I see some kids that just need a little extra help, and others trying desperately to get into college that really should consider other options.  I can't tell their parents that though.  Nooo, this is america and every kid with an IQ above 70 is supposed to get into massive debt to go to college.  I hate how people ignore that everyone is different, and what is right for one person is a bad idea for another.  This is why trade schools are empty and universities are full of students that are miserable because they are in over their head.  

Only took Forest Gump, what, 7 years to get through college?

[Thunderbox]

I  hate this American "everyone can do anything" BS.  I am 5'5"  I realized that trying to move to Milan and become a fashion model was not a good career choice.  Some kids are not that smart and need a little guidance.  There are so many people that would have been better off going to trade school instead of college.  I have met several that got a BA in something useless then had to go to trade school to find a job!  Now they have a lot more debt than they would have if someone had sat them down and talked business about their career options and what they could do with a BA in art history.

I tutor and I see some kids that just need a little extra help, and others trying desperately to get into college that really should consider other options.  I can't tell their parents that though.  Nooo, this is america and every kid with an IQ above 70 is supposed to get into massive debt to go to college.  I hate how people ignore that everyone is different, and what is right for one person is a bad idea for another.  This is why trade schools are empty and universities are full of students that are miserable because they are in over their head.  

So what are you saying?  Do I understand you believe it is up to you to make sure people know which is the best choice for them?  I totally agree everyone is different but I do think they should all be treated fairly and with equality,  free from negative thinking and beliefs.  I don't doubt that somewhere along the road many of the people who have a 70 IQ were told they weren't very bright believed it and have lived as they believe ever since.  They don't have a choice because the mind works that way, this cannot be changed.  It's just the way things work.  You can beleive it or not it really doesn't effect me but think about those you will effect, specially young easily influenced persons.

You may think this is a bunch of BS so I suggest you do some study and perhaps attend one of the Pacific Institutes seminars and see what you think when you understand how your mind works, because most people think they know but they don't.  Took me over 50 years to find out.  I was pissed that I wasn't made aware of this when I was 16 but hey I make the best of it now.  I have made huge changes in the way I deal with others and it has paid off from the get go.

There are only 4 things that can stop you from reaching achievable goals. They are habits, attitudes, beliefs and expectations.

[Galaxy Being]

Where did I say you said that??????????????

Ever since post #144 you're on this kick that it's all the teacher's fault for brainwashing students by telling them they will be failures.   

[satxbonneville]

So what are you saying?  Do I understand you believe it is up to you to make sure people know which is the best choice for them?  I totally agree everyone is different but I do think they should all be treated fairly and with equality,  free from negative thinking and beliefs.
 
You may think this is a bunch of BS so I suggest you do some study and perhaps attend one of the Pacific Institutes seminars and see what you think when you understand how your mind works, because most people think they know but they don't.  Took me over 50 years to find out.  I was pissed that I wasn't made aware of this when I was 16 but hey I make the best of it now.  I have made huge changes in the way I deal with others and it has paid off from the get go.

There are only 4 things that can stop you from reaching achievable goals. They are habits, attitudes, beliefs and expectations.

I believe that what she is saying is pretty simple - there are people for whom college is simply the wrong choice. The prevailing belief in the US is that ALL children MUST attend college or they will be faced with a life of miserable, degrading failure and will be reduced to being little more than drones in a paper cap asking you if you would like to up-size that order. This is bullshit of the first order and the facts have nothing to do with negative thinking or being treated unfairly. How fair is it to place pressure on kids by pre-labeling them as failures in life if they do not hang a college diploma on their wall? Where is the positive in that for the kids who have no desire to attend or lack the ability to complete a course of degree? Are the kids who become plumbers, electricians, mechanics, cosmetologists and carpenters any less successful because they can't append a set of initials after their name in a signature block?

This inflation of expectations is rampant and it pisses me off. Our local Middle School (Junior High to some of you) has a slogan on the sign outside the school that reads: "Home of the college bound Bears". F#ck you and the horse you rode in on. Whoever made the decision to put that out in view of every student who attends that school should be removed from their job and never allowed to work around children again.

[Thunderbox]

Ever since post #144 you're on this kick that it's all the teacher's fault for brainwashing students by telling them they will be failures.   

Bingo now you are catching on!  And you think doing that is a good idea?????????  Duh

[Thunderbox]

I believe that what she is saying is pretty simple - there are people for whom college is simply the wrong choice. The prevailing belief in the US is that ALL children MUST attend college or they will be faced with a life of miserable, degrading failure and will be reduced to being little more than drones in a paper cap asking you if you would like to up-size that order. This is bullshit of the first order and the facts have nothing to do with negative thinking or being treated unfairly. How fair is it to place pressure on kids by pre-labeling them as failures in life if they do not hang a college diploma on their wall? Where is the positive in that for the kids who have no desire to attend or lack the ability to complete a course of degree? Are the kids who become plumbers, electricians, mechanics, cosmetologists and carpenters any less successful because they can't append a set of initials after their name in a signature block?

This inflation of expectations is rampant and it pisses me off. Our local Middle School (Junior High to some of you) has a slogan on the sign outside the school that reads: "Home of the college bound Bears". F#ck you and the horse you rode in on. Whoever made the decision to put that out in view of every student who attends that school should be removed from their job and never allowed to work around children again.

Well you have very low expectations and you will probably succeed in achieving them.  Congradulations.  I can see there is no point in discussing this with you any further.  You have made up your mind and I am just getting under your skin.  Thanks for the discussion.

[HipGnosis]

Well you have very low expectations and you will probably succeed in achieving them.  Congradulations.  I can see there is no point in discussing this with you any further.  You have made up your mind and I am just getting under your skin.  Thanks for the discussion.  

Don't go away mad.

Just...