Are we raising a generation of nincompoops?

[zer0netgain]

  ... and you don't mean at the local disco, right?  

I never gets old, does it?  

Good thing he's not mentioned the incident with the goat.    

[Busa@11K]

It would be interesting to see his viewpoint as a teacher "out in the sticks".

Wonder if "farm kids" have a different attitude than "kids in the hood"?   ... I'm thinking probably so.

[CLAY]

Where's CLAY on this one ... he's a teacher, right?

Maybe Puck should get on here and give her insight as a teacher.

My opinion as a middle of the class ( ) 17 year-experienced middle school teacher- take for what you pay for it:

I think kids today are equally as smart, but they have smarts in other areas.  Much of our society has changed- while these kids might not be changing oil, they are using technology in ways we only dreamed of.  My 7th grade science students make movies to demonstrate a property- that was unheard of when I was in school (in the 70's and 80's- I graduated in '87) since that technology didn't even exist.  They don't need to learn many things- they need to learn how to find the information.  While many of us can rebuild a motorcycle engine with ease (or change oil, or insert your own pet item here), these kids seamlessly live technology.  While I know and use Google and the net all the time, it still amazes me.  The information at my fingertips is mind-blowing.  For them it's the norm.

We recently had a great example of that on here.  Boov (who is not a kid) posted on here awhile back about how he was having transmission problems with his Trailblazer.  While a few went on and on arguing different points of transmissions, he went online, found schematics and a video on Youtube of how to take apart and reassemble his transmission, and he did it.  A kid with a modicum of handiness and that savvy can really do that with anything these days.  You don't like the way your Ipod works?  Jailbreak it and make it do what you want.  Your cell phone?  Same deal.  I'm guessing that a few of you that can rebuild engines in your sleep have no idea what my last few sentences mean- those that can do and understand both are the exception.

That said, I think they are smarter or at least have more opportunity to do better then I (we) did in the 80's.  The norm is for students to take Algebra in 8th grade now- some even earlier.  When I was a kid the norm for that was 9th grade.   However, success still depends on the parents at home.  If the parents are checked-out, or non-existent, the kid is probably screwed.  I think we are going to be seeing a widening gap between low-class, education-isn't-needed-or-important and people who understand that education is key.  You could get by in years past, but that is changing.  I have a buddy who owns his own tile business- great guy, hard worker, but he is beginning to flounder and needs education.  Hopefully he gets it- he called me the other day so I could talk him through how to use an FTP site to download and print the prints he needs to tile parts of a house.  He printed them out and bid the job based on the measurements he saw.  That's not going to work much longer.  We will always need people to work at Burger King though- that part won't change anytime soon.

I don't know who griped about a can opener, but s can opener?  Seriously?  I haven't used a can opener in years.  They make cans with pop-tops now.  I bet the same kid can't use a type-writer worth a crap either.  

One more thing- before you gripe about the teachers- remember we are in amazing times.  For many teachers when they started teaching the computer was non-existent.  I would argue that most teachers are much more advanced and adept at the new technology than an equivalent non-teaching position.  Most teachers, in my experience, are life-long learners.  Someone made the comment that most teachers were middle-of-the-class students, which really makes sense.  You don't need to be the smartest, but you do need to understand the smartest, *and* the slowest.  Most importantly, you have to be able to teach.  Top of the class or middle of the class, you will never succeed as a teacher without the ability and the desire to teach- and lots of people simply don't have that.

BTW- for the record I'm as anti-teacher-union as you can get.  Raises should be based on performance.  If you can't teach well, you have no place teaching.  And (us) good ones should have a big, fat raise.  

It would be interesting to see his viewpoint as a teacher "out in the sticks".

Wonder if "farm kids" have a different attitude than "kids in the hood"?   ... I'm thinking probably so.

Also for the record- I teach upper-middle class students with lots of parent support.  Where I taught last year I had probably 20% farm kids, now (I switched schools this year) I have maybe one out of 150.  I haven't noticed a big difference yet- although the farm kids tended to have a better work ethic, they often lagged in the technology sector.  Just an observation.


Edited to add:  I do, however, think that this place is an anomaly.  Here we tend to have people who are handy with the tools (motorcycle mechanics) and handy with the technology, since this is a web-based forum.  I don't think most people are both, or at least fluent in both.

[CLAY]

I never gets old, does it?  

Good thing he's not mentioned the incident with the goat.    

Curse you for bringing that up!  

[ScottysB12]

It would be interesting to see his viewpoint as a teacher "out in the sticks".

Wonder if "farm kids" have a different attitude than "kids in the hood"?   ... I'm thinking probably so.

DO you mean middle America farm kids or migrant worker farm kids? Out here in the central valley (San Joaquin Valley) there is a high number of migrant farmer worker kids. Some of your wealthy Dutch and Portuguese dairy farmers (I mean farm owners) have children that excel in school.  The number of migrant farm worker kids in schools is much greater with a much lower success rate.  Being illiterate or barely literate in their first language makes trying to learn all this new material (such as Biology) nearly impossible since all the material is taught in their second language.
Some of these students grab the bulls by the horn and try their hardest. Some actively seek out after school tutoring designed for EL (English Learners) students. Many, however: associate with the Nortenos or Surenos and that is where they get most of their social support.

I could show you things like CELDT scores or CST or CAHSEE scores and that wouldnt mean much to you unless you were a teacher and knew all the friggin acronyms (probably rivals the military)

Now as a teacher you learn to take into account some kids just arent as smart as others. Yes I said it. Some kids ARE smarter, plain and simple. Desire/attitude is what sets kids apart.


So our HOOD kids are mostly northerners, southerners and your white trash... so I have no comparison against inner city hood students...
 
on a funny...or maybe sad note today in class...we are covering ecology and we talked about herbivores and that they eat only plant material...i had pictures on the powerpoint slide (yay technology) of elephants, a cow, a bird and a orangutan...a student pipes up  IF THE MONKEY EATS A BANANA, HOW IS IT A HERBIVORE?

guess you had to be there

[1KPerDay]

I think kids today are equally as smart

[KenH]

My personal belief is that any perceived nincompoopiness of the current generation can be blamed on the fact that their parents seem to be content to let the schools raise their children. You cannot ignore your own children and then blame the schools for them being stupid. Teachers are only responsible for so much... they teach school subjects, not life skills. If a child shows up in the classoom not ready to learn, they won't.

Before my niece could walk or talk, we were teaching her how to use stacking cups... "hand mommy the yellow one", "which one comes next" and so on. She is now 4 and reading at a 6th grade level. Meanwhile, I see other "parents" using the television to raise their children until they can foist them off on the schools. Go to any McDonalds and show me an infant being fed Coke and french fries; I'll show you a future nincompoop.

Your niece has a linguist intelligence quotient of about 300. mmmmmkay Think about that. She probably already reads better than some of her future teachers. I hope her parents are ready to take on the schools to see she is offered the "free and appropriate public education" to which the SCOTUS says she is entitled. Otherwise, she will be very bored in school. "Gifted" kids present a plethora of problems to parents, not because the kids are or cause problems, but because most schools and school districts fail to serve them adequately. With a 300 IQ she is beyond any GT program in public schools. To put things in perspective, at her ability level she should be doing college level language arts classes in 2nd grade.

[Mr Sunshine]

I get asked, what seems to be daily, by co-workers (mostly foreign) how I learned to do XYZ (that usually involves home improvement or working on mechnical things like cars/bikes).

I look at them and I really cna't give them an answer.  I go and do something and it just makes sense.

[Mr Sunshine]

The author has chosen some mundane skills that gown-ups mastered and is using them as evidence to support his preposturous opinion.
Children are much smarter today than they were when I was a kid, simply because they are getting a much better education.
It probably helps to have kids or at least be around them on a regular basis to see what I mean.
They weren't teaching 5 yr olds to read back in the 70's & 80's.  You could not read when you were in Kindergarten (And you couldn't tie your shoes either).
My 5 yr old son will kick your ass in Mario Cart too.

I was born in 1976 and by the time I was 3 I could read on my own and tye my own shoes.

I don't think kids now days are getting a better education. I think they are getting a different education but I see troubleshooting and experimenting sorely lacking.
Posted on: September 29, 2010, 09:59:33 PM

You don't like the way your Ipod works?  Jailbreak it and make it do what you want.  Your cell phone?  Same deal.  I'm guessing that a few of you that can rebuild engines in your sleep have no idea what my last few sentences mean- those that can do and understand both are the exception.


That said, I think they are smarter or at least have more opportunity to do better then I (we) did in the 80's.  The norm is for students to take Algebra in 8th grade now- some even earlier.  When I was a kid the norm for that was 9th grade.

I love being the exception.  

I took Algebra in 7th grade in 1987 or 1988....can't do the math to figure it out.  

[dm_gsxr]

I love being the exception.  

I took Algebra in 7th grade in 1987 or 1988....can't do the math to figure it out.  

Yea, me too. I failed Algebra in high school back in 74 (10th grade). But at 53 I'm able to hit youtube or google search something to help me do things. Both physical "how do I solder joints for the shower" and mental (check the php.net site to check on a function).

Both my daughters were read to as kids. The older one took to it and reads constantly. The younger one refused to be read to and would fidget and fuss no matter what. The older kid is a DBA/Manager and earlier this year her company sent her to Romania to set up a remote help desk and currently manages them. The younger one is currently enrolled in a Motorcycle Repair course (at last check that is). I'm in constant contact one way or the other with the older one. The younger one doesn't use computers and doesn't care to figure out how so I'm only in touch via the older kid.

And I'm a heavy reader too. Mom "taught" me to read and I was constantly ahead of the rest of the class in reading assignments.

See my woodworking thread for my recent learning experiences. I was at a class yesterday at work and made the comment "I'm not above learning something new" whereupon the instructor said that that was pretty unusual in his experience as most folks who come to the sessions are a bit reluctant to embrace new tech, being very set in their ways.

Carl

[coho]

I don't think kids now days are getting a better education. I think they are getting a different education but I see troubleshooting and experimenting sorely lacking.

[squeezer]

Nice post, Clay.  

[scottzilla]

I was born in 1976 and by the time I was 3 I could read on my own and tye my own shoes.

I don't think kids now days are getting a better education. I think they are getting a different education but I see troubleshooting and experimenting sorely lacking.
Posted on: September 29, 2010, 09:59:33 PM

I love being the exception.  

I took Algebra in 7th grade in 1987 or 1988....can't do the math to figure it out.  

Congrats on the shoes.  When I was 3, I knew how to spell "TIE".

[Giaka]

On a side note my wife said some of her high school students don't know how to tell time off a dial clock.

Works both ways, ask grandpa to install Windows 7 on his mini notebook, sit back with a beer and enjoy.

[scottzilla]

Nice post, Clay.  

He kills kittens by bashing their heads in with a pipe.
Great teacher though.

[ScottysB12]

no one said soicopaths were unintelligent lol

[squeezer]

He kills kittens by bashing their heads in with a pipe.
Great teacher though.

Which points to the real problem with kids today. They've heard so much about lethal injection that when you ask one to kill a kitten with a pipe, they bring PVC.

World's going to hell in a handbasket, I tell ya'.

[Mac]

Which points to the real problem with kids today. They've heard so much about lethal injection that when you ask one to kill a kitten with a pipe, they bring PVC.

World's going to hell in a handbasket, I tell ya'.

Well they can'tbring a good decent lead pipe anymore, that stuffs toxic. They'll go blind before they'd go blind from wacking off too much.

[coho]

Works both ways, ask grandpa to install Windows 7 on his mini notebook, sit back with a beer and enjoy.

Computer skills are teh awes0mE!!1! but require a computer, power and a problem/task that can be solved with a computer.  It's still only one tool.  And my grandma could rock her iMac like a teenager right up to the day she died at 94.

Being able to tell time with an analog clock (or the sun), or find your way around in an unfamiliar environment without GPS, or figure out what's wrong with a broken (or simply stuck) mechanical object with observable moving parts, or any other basic survival skills are tools that can be used in many situations.  Yoda was wrong, trying is a form of doing and failure is often the first step toward success.

I don't see the desire for knowledge growing in those who have all the information in the world at their fingertips (if they are in wireless range).  Replace rather than repair, buy rather than make, hire a specialist to do it etc.

[radman]

I can rebuild an engine in my sleep AND I've mastered Google.  I suppose I should buy a cape or something.