"Rupess Talk, Harley Listens" or "Ganesha helped build my Hog!"

[Rincewind]

Harley to open their first factory in India.  Read the story at The Kneeslider.


Milwaukee, Nov. 2, 2010 – Harley-Davidson, Inc. (NYSE:HOG) is moving forward with the launch of operations in India to assemble motorcycles for the Indian market from component kits supplied by its U.S. plants, the Company announced today. The Company expects the CKD (complete knock-down) assembly facility to be operational in the first half of 2011.

The announcement comes as President Barack Obama prepares to travel to India on a state visit focused on trade and business opportunities between the two countries.

“CKD assembly operations in India are a natural next step for Harley-Davidson as we build our brand presence around the world,” said Harley-Davidson Motor Company President and Chief Operating Officer Matthew S. Levatich. “This investment will allow us to improve our market responsiveness and production flexibility while reducing the tariff burden, which we expect will drive growth over time by making our bikes more accessible to India’s consumers. Given the strong response we have received in the initial months of retail operations, we believe this is the right investment for this important market,” Levatich said.

[bomber]

I've worked in India for three companies now . . . . .

HDI is smart enough to know they need some serious muscle on the ground for a while --

Look for Indian-assembled bikes in non-North American markets within 2 year, and in North America in 5.

[Rincewind]

I've worked in India for three companies now . . . . .

HDI is smart enough to know they need some serious muscle on the ground for a while --

Look for Indian-assembled bikes in non-North American markets within 2 year, and in North America in 5.

That's a pretty huge assumption there, bomber.  It seems from the article that the new Indian factory is to be dedicated to supplying HD's specifically for India so that they can side-step the huge tariffs.  Do you really think that Harley is destined to move assembly and/or production overseas?

[bomber]

That's a pretty huge assumption there, bomber.  It seems from the article that the new Indian factory is to be dedicated to supplying HD's specifically for India so that they can side-step the huge tariffs.  Do you really think that Harley is destined to move assembly and/or production overseas?

Well, I don't think it is, really, that huge.

First step, supply India? You bet, absolutely.

How many units do you think India will consume, yearly. (I have no idea, but I'll bet you a good dinner that it's less than that smallest factory that's worth building).

Do I think that HDI cannot/will not resist the ability to move *some* assembly and production overseas? I do --

The path I predicted is one that a number of companies have followed, some with success, others, not so much.  HDI's recent efforts to curb labor costs here in the northern USA should not be ignored as a sign of further cost consciousness, IMO.

[1KPerDay]

Curried hog, anyone?

[Rogue]

 Do you really think that Harley is destined to move assembly and/or production overseas?

I wouldn’t put it above H-D to do such a thing.  They did axe 200 jobs at Buell right?

They will claim that it’s good for America to keep H-D going by outsourcing production.  It’s all about money to H-D now that Wandel is in charge.

[Dan K]

They will likely move some assembly to India, but only time will tell.  There's definitely a big market for motorcycles in India, but I'm with Bomber - not a huge leap to think so.

Curried hog, anyone?

Nice.  

- Dan

[bomber]

I wouldn’t put it above H-D to do such a thing.  They did axe 200 jobs at Buell right?

They will claim that it’s good for America to keep H-D going by outsourcing production.  It’s all about money to H-D now that Wandel is in charge.

Of course it's all about money -- it always has been.

[ST for me!]

Fucking great, now the world will have Indian pirates...

[chornbe]

Do you really think that Harley is destined to move assembly and/or production overseas?

No.

They would lose a huge bunch of their installed user base if so. Won't happen.

This will be treated like an iconic "wholly owned subsidiary".

PS... if it would drop the price of what I consider Harley's best "bang for the buck" bike, the Superglide, to sub $10k prices... I'm all for it. I love those things.

[garry]

No.

They would lose a huge bunch of their installed user base if so. Won't happen.

Where would said installed base get their bikes from? Would the HD faithful switch to ride a Victory rather than an HD built overseas?

[bomber]

No.

They would lose a huge bunch of their installed user base if so. Won't happen.

This will be treated like an iconic "wholly owned subsidiary".

PS... if it would drop the price of what I consider Harley's best "bang for the buck" bike, the Superglide, to sub $10k prices... I'm all for it. I love those things.

Chris could very well be right -- many folks said the same when HDI sourced suspensions and electric from overseas for the first time . . . . .

My opinion is that most HD buyers fall into two camps -- the ones that buy them because they are good at thier intended missions, and the ones that are buying into a club. Neither will care enough about the country of assembly to buy a Honda, or not buy a bike at all.

But my meteoric rise to the top of a major motorcycle manufacturer seems to have stalled, so take that with a grain of salt.

[chornbe]

Where would said installed base get their bikes from? Would the HD faithful switch to ride a Victory rather than an HD built overseas?

I would think that the "premium price point" that Harleys currently sit at would be something of an insult for "Indian Crap" motorcycles. (I'm paraphrasing the Faithful here, not saying what *I* think of the bikes)

To be clear - I'm a huge fan of Harley's bikes and *I* would not buy one at current US labor prices if it was built in India or anywhere else known for its less expensive labor. I am also NOT a fan by any stretch of "the lifestyle" that has come up around Harleys - and those people are the ones who would feel flat out insulted, rejected and betrayed by Harley moving all production overseas.

Won't happen.

$.02

[bomber]

I would think that the "premium price point" that Harleys currently sit at would be something of an insult for "Indian Crap" motorcycles. (I'm paraphrasing the Faithful here, not saying what *I* think of the bikes)

To be clear - I'm a huge fan of Harley's bikes and *I* would not buy one at current US labor prices if it was built in India or anywhere else known for its less expensive labor. I am also NOT a fan by any stretch of "the lifestyle" that has come up around Harleys - and those people are the ones who would feel flat out insulted, rejected and betrayed by Harley moving all production overseas.

Won't happen.

$.02

The number of companies that have moved at least a portion of their manufacturing off-shore to take advantage of lower labor costs is large.

The number of those companies that have lost significant market share is very small.

HDI has always tried to occupy a unique slot in the motorcycle marketplace, admitted, but I'd be surprised if the labor that went into US built HDs stayed exclusively in North American.

I feel extremely confident that HDs shipped to Japan, for instance, will come from India.

[chornbe]

I feel extremely confident that HDs shipped to Japan, for instance, will come from India.

Which I personally feel compares not one iota to the question at hand - Harley's North American buying base.

Those are the people I'm talking about.

What would be funny and ironic is if HD *did* move all manufacturing off shore, people here in the US *did* stop buying them, and "The motor company" became a supplier to exclusively non-American markets. That would be funny.

[Tpoppa]

I wouldn't be surprised to see all Sportster or Vrod production moved outside the US.  HDI would just push you to buy big twin if you want a US built bike.

[Tar Snake]

Perfect place to revive Indian yet again!  

[Biking Sailor]

Typical path for U.S. manufacturers:

1. Start purchasing less costly bits and pcs from overseas.
2. Start purchasing a little more "value added" components from overseas.
3. Start purchasing/manufacturing sub-assemblies from overseas.
4. Start purchasing/manufacturing larger sub-assemblies overseas.
5. Retain "Assembled in America" as point of pride.*

* Until the Mexico plant is up and running.

Saw this happen with one of our sister companies!

[Rogue]

Chris, never say never.

GM now sources many of their entry level engines from China and stuffs them in US-made cars.  H-D has Chinese made parts too.

Back in the 1980's and before, this would have been treated as a heretic act and the brand banished by the faithful.  That kind of thinking is no longer the case.  Look at what happened with WalMart!  They used to tout Made In The USA and supported US companies that sourced their labor domestically back in the 1990's.  

How things change.

[bomber]

Which I personally feel compares not one iota to the question at hand - Harley's North American buying base.

Those are the people I'm talking about.

What would be funny and ironic is if HD *did* move all manufacturing off shore, people here in the US *did* stop buying them, and "The motor company" became a supplier to exclusively non-American markets. That would be funny.

I understand yourpoint, Chris, but the conversation has been a bit broader than that --

I stand by my guess that we'll see at least one model here (North America) in 2015 assembled elsewhere. HD has survived bigger things, and I"m betting they'd survive this.

[stevent]

Read the article, the India factory will assemble bikes from American made kits only. If they try sending completed bikes here the Faithful will just keep what they have.

[chornbe]

If they try sending completed bikes here the Faithful will just keep what they have.

Completely agreed!

And let me further expand on my point. A few facts to get us started...

1) the "aging" biker is apparently not being replenished with younger buyers who are interested in Harleys, right? This has been discussed over and over and over again here on ST.N.

2) Harley is not apparently interested in building and marketing bikes to the younger crowd.

3) the younger crowd is currently hung up on go-fast tupperware.

Combining those three facts, it would seem a slow-death of Harley is already in the works anyway, right? This also has been discussed to death, so let's just - for the sake of argument - say this is true.

When you take the last bit of appeal and pride out of Harley in the US market place - "American built bikes" - and move all that overseas, thus alienating a huge and measurable part of the old crotchety bastards, without doing something to attract the younger crowd, then yeah... this is bad news for Harley of America.

When Datsun came to the US, it wasn't the 50- and 60-somethings embracing the B210 and 710s, it was the younger crowd - those with less money and who were more about MPG and affordability than "American pride" in their automobiles.

The bike-buying younger crowd simply does NOT have that desire for "American pride".

This is my point.

[bomber]

Completely agreed!

And let me further expand on my point. A few facts to get us started...

1) the "aging" biker is apparently not being replenished with younger buyers who are interested in Harleys, right? This has been discussed over and over and over again here on ST.N.

2) Harley is not apparently interested in building and marketing bikes to the younger crowd.

3) the younger crowd is currently hung up on go-fast tupperware.

Combining those three facts, it would seem a slow-death of Harley is already in the works anyway, right? This also has been discussed to death, so let's just - for the sake of argument - say this is true.

When you take the last bit of appeal and pride out of Harley in the US market place - "American built bikes" - and move all that overseas, thus alienating a huge and measurable part of the old crotchety bastards, without doing something to attract the younger crowd, then yeah... this is bad news for Harley of America.

When Datsun came to the US, it wasn't the 50- and 60-somethings embracing the B210 and 710s, it was the younger crowd - those with less money and who were more about MPG and affordability than "American pride" in their automobiles.

The bike-buying younger crowd simply does NOT have that desire for "American pride".

This is my point.

Well, opinions are worth what you paid for em, I suppose -- agreeing to disagree is a good thing, I'm thinking.

Time will tell, as it does with all things.

[chornbe]

Well, opinions are worth what you paid for em, I suppose -- agreeing to disagree is a good thing, I'm thinking.

Time will tell, as it does with all things.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that I'm right... so there's nothing to disagree over. I'm simply saying that based on the bullshit attitudes I've seen in the Harley community, the "faithful" will *not* be happy about a full MFGing move to India, and that Harley is not captained by blind, deaf and braindead morons; they know this.

The question becomes, will Harley grow globally enough to support a drop in the US market should they ever move MFGing out of the states.

"Never gonna  happen" may actually be 20 or 30 years, but it sure as heck ain't a 3-5 year plan with any hope of viability or success.

$.02

PS... I'll just say this... whatever the choices and whatever the path, I hope for success all the way. Harley is the best of their breed; I'd hate to see a world where Harley dies.

[bomber]

I'm not saying you're wrong or that I'm right... so there's nothing to disagree over. I'm simply saying that based on the bullshit attitudes I've seen in the Harley community, the "faithful" will *not* be happy about a full MFGing move to India, and that Harley is not captained by blind, deaf and braindead morons; they know this.


"Never gonna  happen" may actually be 20 or 30 years, but it sure as heck ain't a 3-5 year plan with any hope of viability or success.

not happy? I agree. Stop buying, I don't think so. HD has had non-US built;t bikes before, and little backlash -- (though it was some time ago, I'll warrent).

THe faithful didn't notice when all the accessories started to arrive from elsewhere, and I really doubt if many would balk at an Indian made HD . . . . .

so -- I say within 5 years oat least one model assembled offshore for sale in the US (likely a sportster) . . . ..  dinner and beer.

Nadya say?

[1KPerDay]

 I really doubt if many would balk at an Indian made HD . . . . .

Oh, come now. You on the pipe? There's no WAY the harley faithful will put up with The Great American Freedom Machine™ being outsourced to India. Yeah, they can deal with Indonesian leathers and Chinese barstools. But do you honestly think they will accept an Indian-made Harley? The name itself should ruffle some feathers if you have any sense of history.


OTOH, we had Harley-engined Indians for a while....  

[county]

It is gonna be sweet saying  "Curry burner"

[olderigetfasteriam]

It is gonna be sweet saying  "Curry burner"

Now that is fucking funny! I am going to have t shirts made.

[Galo]

snip
The question becomes, will Harley grow globally enough to support a drop in the US market should they ever move MFGing out of the states.

"Never gonna  happen" may actually be 20 or 30 years, but it sure as heck ain't a 3-5 year plan with any hope of viability or success.

I predict that 20 or 30 years from now, 80% of the mfg that went to China will come back to the US.....simply stated, China is fast on its way to NOT being a low-cost Geo.
Last year, the average pay raise in the US was in the range of 2.6%. In China, more like 9.75% -and the last five years has been like that as well.

Wait 'till the China gummit realizes that their 'one child per family' law has created a country where only 40% of the population has to support the aging 60% that can't work anymore AND they have no Social Security (or anything similar) and they have to adopt something like it, adding another 6 to 7% (or more) to the costs of doing business there, and very soon -a couple dozen years or so- it will be more expensive to make big stuff in China and ship it here than it will be to make it here.

back OT: Harleys in India? Don't tell a soul....it's the Indian gummint's secret weapon for population control....

[stevent]

not happy? I agree. Stop buying, I don't think so. HD has had non-US built;t bikes before, and little backlash -- (though it was some time ago, I'll warrent).

I've put more miles on Harleys than anything else and I know that world pretty well. .While I'll grant that "some" people wouldn't care if a Harley (any model) was built oversees and imported here, I can guarantee that the hard core Harley riders which are Harley Davidsons main repeat customers simply would not buy one period. They would keep what they had which being an American made HD would appreciate in value or buy used. Accessories and trinkets are one thing and trust me they bitch about them being imported, whole motorcycles are a whole different story. The bikes Harley manufactures overseas will be for the overseas market only unless they entire managment team at HD suddenly went brain dead.

[Kat-Rider]

So will India go for the large displacement or will they scale them back?
Maybe a 150-250 a big one being 500 HD?

[JonS]

So will India go for the large displacement or will they scale them back?
Maybe a 150-250 a big one being 500 HD?

 Thats the part I wonder about.
 The other part is that the HD culture, in general, seems to have wrapped themselves in patriotism. That would be a hard sell, riding a bike manufactured in India or anywhere other than the US.

[Mac]

Exactly. I'm guessing the average displacement in India is a 250cc machine.  

Also, would your average Indian be able to afford a HD? Not if they keep prices like they are in the US or how low could HD lower prices and still be profitable?

Another point, would someone be able to use it as their only vehicle, load the entire family and stuff on it to go to market? Does the Indian market have use for a recreation only motorcycle?


Unless India has far more wealth than I'm giving its people credit for, HD will never outsell the Enfield.

[Biking Sailor]

Interesting question on the "typical" HD buyer in India.  Just the affluent that can afford a status symbol toy, or bikes designed for that market?

Another point about HD not marketing to the young...  I'm almost 50 and have no intention of buying a cruiser type harley in sight right now (still living my youth  ).  In 5 to 10 years, might be looking for one.  Point being young will get old and then look to HD, so they don't market to the young, they just wait for time to resupply their customer base.

[Orson]

Also, would your average Indian be able to afford a HD? Not if they keep prices like they are in the US or how low could HD lower prices and still be profitable?

Another point, would someone be able to use it as their only vehicle, load the entire family and stuff on it to go to market? Does the Indian market have use for a recreation only motorcycle?


Unless India has far more wealth than I'm giving its people credit for, HD will never outsell the Enfield.

You'd be surprised how much India's middle class has grown in the last 20 years  

[Rincewind]

One article I read said that the basic Harley (as imported now) costs 7x a Royal Enfield Bullet 350.

So if they avoid the tariffs with a factory, would that make is only 4x an Enfield? 

The article below is from when Harley began importing to India - which was only very recently.




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article7099109.ece

Harley-Davidson takes on Royal Enfield Bullet in India
Rhys Blakely in Mumbai

Two icons of the open road are to go head-to-head in India as Harley-Davidson starts selling its heavyweight motorcycles in the country for the first time.

Standing in the way is the Royal Enfield Bullet, commonly known as “The Thumper”; a bike first built in Britain nearly 80 years ago, and one that is enjoying something of a revival in India.

Harley will begin taking orders next week but the price tag means that ownership will be limited to India’s elite. In the United States the bikes, beloved of Hell’s Angels and crisis-hit middle-aged males, start at $7,000 (£4,500). In India import duties will double the cost. For the same money you can buy at least seven Bullet 350s — a comparison that helps to explain the sniffiness of India’s “real” bikers.

“A Harley is for the rich guy who will take it out on a Sunday for a ride to his club,” said Anand Bhalerao, 31, the technical head of the Inddie Thumpers, India’s largest biker club. “It’s too heavy for the Indian physique and in this climate it’s going to overheat.”
Related Links

With an annual jamboree that features beer-drinking competitions, arm-wrestling bouts and bike-stripping tournaments, the Inddie Thumpers are the closest thing that India has to a chapter of Hell’s Angels. The admission rules are stringent and there is a waiting list of 800. The first condition? You must own a Royal Enfield. “If you want a bike that can deal with India, get a Bullet,” Mr Bhalerao said. “The Harley’s all for show.”

The distinctive “pud-pud” of the Bullet’s four-stroke engine — the signature sound that gave rise to “The Thumper” moniker — has echoed across the sub-continent’s roads for half a century. The first models were imported from England in kit form in 1953. Three years later a factory was built in Madras, and it continues to run today. The English parent company, formed in 1891, folded in the 1970s.

Now, rather than merely enduring, there are signs that Royal Enfield is thriving. The Indian company’s sales surged by 20 per cent last year to about 52,000 bikes. It recently introduced two new models with a view to increasing exports to Britain, the US and Europe.

Siddhartha Lal, the chief executive of the Eicher Group, which owns Royal Enfield, said that he saw no threat from imported bikes — nor from a new generation of cheap cars that cost roughly the same as his company’s newest models.

“If you drive a cheap car you drive a cheap car. If you ride a Royal Enfield you get the chicks,” he said.

By contrast Harley lost $219 million in the fourth quarter of 2009 and says that this year will be “challenging”. The sub-continent offers some of the best road trips in the world but the terrain is unforgiving. There are suspicions that Harleys, built for America’s pristine highways, will prove ill suited to India’s potholed roads.

Nashwin D’Mello, 28, was one of a handful of bikers invited by Harley to test-drive its machines on a grand tour of India. The trip, from the southern jungles of Goa to the northern deserts of Rajasthan, took its toll. “After 500km nuts and bolts started to fall off,” he said.

The Bullet, recognised by its cannon crest and the motto “Made Like a Gun”, has also been known to disintegrate. Almost any serious rider will have had a part fall off his machine, Mr Bhalerao admitted. “But in India you’ll find a mechanic who can fix it any-damn-where

[phoenix]

Typical path for U.S. manufacturers:

1. Start purchasing less costly bits and pcs from overseas.
2. Start purchasing a little more "value added" components from overseas.
3. Start purchasing/manufacturing sub-assemblies from overseas.
4. Start purchasing/manufacturing larger sub-assemblies overseas.
5. Retain "Assembled in America" as point of pride.*

* Until the Mexico plant is up and running.

Saw this happen with one of our sister companies!

You left out the steps where a company starts up other offices in India for customer support, engineering, etc.

[slowduc]

They would lose a huge bunch of their installed user base if so. Won't happen.

once you get that angry eagle tattoo you look pretty stupid riding anything else  

[chornbe]

once you get that angry eagle tattoo you look pretty stupid riding anything else  

LOL  

[greywolf]

AS long as it's local distribution .. no issues

if they try to sell a Curry burner over here they will lose thier faithful

[jfurf]

 Point being young will get old and then look to HD, so they don't market to the young, they just wait for time to resupply their customer base.

And this in a nutshell is why Harley is so lame. They're basically the Buick of motorcycles.  

[chornbe]

I've put more miles on Harleys than anything else and I know that world pretty well. .While I'll grant that "some" people wouldn't care if a Harley (any model) was built oversees and imported here, I can guarantee that the hard core Harley riders which are Harley Davidsons main repeat customers simply would not buy one period. They would keep what they had which being an American made HD would appreciate in value or buy used. Accessories and trinkets are one thing and trust me they bitch about them being imported, whole motorcycles are a whole different story. The bikes Harley manufactures overseas will be for the overseas market only unless they entire managment team at HD suddenly went brain dead.

Eggzackery!  

[Rogue]

And this in a nutshell is why Harley is so lame. They're basically the Buick of motorcycles.  

Buick made more sales in China than anywhere else.  It's a money-maker for GM right now.    Also, Buick cars and SUV's have been winning awards since the break up of GM.  It seems Buick came out the winner while all the other brands flounder.  

So not like H-D at all.

[chornbe]

Well... kind of. Harley wouldn't be going in to those other markets if they weren't wanted. First it was export to India, now it's assembly/manufacturing.

And the magazines, for the most part, pick Harleys above other makers' bikes. Across the board, they're probably 70% the winner in the various comparos.

They're doing ok.

And Buick is making some damn fine cars.  

[Rogue]

They're doing ok.

And Buick is making some damn fine cars.  

Yes that is all true.

The one big difference is that Buick's vehicles are almost all new design with a very fresh execution.  Many articles describe today's Buick's as not your grandfather's Buick rings very true.  They are very different and appeal much more to Lexus/BMW buyers.  They now have turbo-intercooled inline fours with 6-speed manual/automatics.  They also have DOHC V6's with direct injection.  They also tune their cars at the Nurghburgring Racetrack in Germany, as all of GM's high performance cars.  Buick's new direction is luxury and performance and tests do show this.  Sales in the US is improving but Sales in China topped the charts.

H-D do have good products.  I'll give them that.  But they are all based on improved versions of old designs.  The XR1200 still clings to the old version and looks it.  Only the V-Rod was forward looking except they turned it into the Nightster now.  To me, H-D seems paralized by its own history.  Kind of like Jaguar was not long ago.  So that part is not like today's Buick.

[chornbe]

To me, H-D seems paralized by its own history dumbass Harley Guy ^(r)(c)(tm) core buyer who can't let HD move forward.

FTFY

I have it on good authority that some of the stuff in the super secret skunkwerx labs at HD would make a lot of otherwise non-interested riders go "hmmmm..... that's cool."

[antvq]

Yeah, but County drives a Buick!       It's the Rebel of the car world.  

[Rogue]

County drives our grandfather's Buick.  

[chornbe]

County drives our grandfather's Buick.  

Grandpa always did like him best. That's why he got the car.  

[JonS]

FTFY

I have it on good authority that some of the stuff in the super secret skunkwerx labs at HD would make a lot of otherwise non-interested riders go "hmmmm..... that's cool."

It was quite a while since I lived in Milwaukee, but  even then, HD bought models of other brands to use in the engineering dept. Then nothing happened. Harley just kept making the same machines. I rode in the dirt with a couple of HD engineers. They liked having these other cool bikes to ride.

[Kat-Rider]

You'd be surprised how much India's middle class has grown in the last 20 years  

Yep.  Them and China are 2 huge new markets.  Remember all those tech jobs that left the US?  They had to go somewhere.  
If HD does move production to India I do not think it will make that big a deal.  As long as they ease into it most people might not notice.  People still think of Nissan/Honda/Toyota as Japanese made cars and GM as an American made car.  

[atadaskew]

Harley has been assembling bikes in Brazil for years now.

And we haven't seen any Brazillian Harleys here...

Methinks this is just another case of people wishing that Harley would go belly up, just because they shut down Buell even though they'd never actually buy a Buell..

Which leads the mind to ponder... if you wax a Brazillian Harley....

[scottzilla]

Chris, never say never.

GM now sources many of their entry level engines from China and stuffs them in US-made cars.  H-D has Chinese made parts too.

Back in the 1980's and before, this would have been treated as a heretic act and the brand banished by the faithful.  That kind of thinking is no longer the case.  Look at what happened with WalMart!  They used to tout Made In The USA and supported US companies that sourced their labor domestically back in the 1990's.  

How things change.

Just curious, which GM model sold in the US has a Chinese made engine?

[JonS]

Just curious, which GM model sold in the US has a Chinese made engine?

I googled your question and found this, from Wikipedia.

Since 1999, a Chinese version of the Buick Century/Regal has been produced and sold in China by Shanghai GM and has proven to be popular among upscale, professional families, establishing Buick as one of the most popular vehicle brands in China. In addition, Buick of China also sells the compact Excelle (based on the Daewoo Lacetti/Nubira), a five-door hatchback version called the HRV, and a modified version of the first generation Pontiac Montana minivan named the GL8. Many Buicks for the local market are equipped with smaller more fuel efficient engines with double overhead camshafts, than those with overhead valves in the same nameplate for the American market. The engines of 2005-09 Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac Torrent, originally intended for Buick in China, were made in China and imported by General Motors.

[Biking Sailor]

15+ years ago I toured a GM plant in OKC and was amazed at how many subassemblies were from other countries.  Seems every component being attached had a made somewhere else label.  I didn't think I was naive about the amount of overseas parts used, but was surprised by what I saw.

Can only assume it's only gotten more so over the years.  

[HipGnosis]

 People still think of Nissan/Honda/Toyota as Japanese made cars and GM as an American made car.  

Those mfg's want people to think that.

[chornbe]

15+ years ago I toured a GM plant in OKC and was amazed at how many subassemblies were from other countries.  Seems every component being attached had a made somewhere else label.  I didn't think I was naive about the amount of overseas parts used, but was surprised by what I saw.

Can only assume it's only gotten more so over the years.  

We are living in a global economy. Companies (and people!) deny that at great peril and risk.

[cdcro]

 Those mfg's want people to think that.

+1 My father in law is always complaining about our Japanese cars, a 2000 and a 2008 Honda SUV, one built in Indiana and one built in Ohio.

[Kat-Rider]

 Those mfg's want people to think that.

Exactly my point.  HD will be the same way.  As long as they don't stick a 'Made in    'sticker on it most people will not think about it.

[falconati]

Indian replicas