2011 Guzzi Stelvio NTX

[WitchCityBallabio]

Guzzi has released their newest version of the Stelvio.

The current version finally offers and 8 1/2 gallon fuel tank. An option that many had asked for.

I just recently bought a 2009 leftover Stelvio and it's fantastic, but it sure would have been nice with that kind of range.

Anyway, they've sharpened the looks up a bit on the fairing and tank. Here it is for those of you that haven't seen it yet.....

[Rincewind]

8.5 Gallons is pretty extreme!  Dare I say overcompensation.  

Are we getting this new NTX in the US, or do we get last year's NTX?

[BobW]

I'm happy with my 09, but a little more gas would be nice on long distance/remote area rides. I use rotopax, but I'm very interested in how they fit all that extra gas on her in both looks and how she handles the extra weight placed so high on an already top heavy platform.  Such a cool bike, it's good to see they are trying to keep her fresh especially with some of the new kids on the block strutting their stuff.

Cheers

[ConPilot1]

Nice bike. Are they as solid and reliable a platform for a big enduro like the GS?

[chornbe]

Nice bike. Are they as solid and reliable a platform for a big enduro like the GS?

The Guzzi is a ridiculously simple machine. Simplicity usually means reliability. It's a basic pushrod, screw-type valve train, wet-sump engine, air-cooled, low(er)-revving mill. Separated, bolt-on starter and alternator, non-integrated transmission/gearbox. The engine hangs from the frame, and other than the computer controlled fuel injection, there's nothing "hi tech" about it.

I'd slap a decent took kit, tire repair kit and a few bottles of water in my Guzzi and head ANYWHERE on it. It's been ridiculously reliable and, being very familiar with engines and mechanical/tech in general, I can't think of too many bikes I'd trust more.

The Sportster was even simpler and more trustworthy.

$.02



Note: that's not to say that newer, higher-tech machines aren't trustworthy and reliable. Don't confuse my appreciation of the simpler machines as "dissing" the higher-tech stuff. Gimme a CBR/RR for sport / track riding any day of the week. But for every day, get on and go stuff... gimme simple.  

[ConPilot1]

The Guzzi is a ridiculously simple machine. Simplicity usually means reliability. It's a basic pushrod, screw-type valve train, wet-sump engine, air-cooled, low(er)-revving mill. Separated, bolt-on starter and alternator, non-integrated transmission/gearbox. The engine hangs from the frame, and other than the computer controlled fuel injection, there's nothing "hi tech" about it.

I'd slap a decent took kit, tire repair kit and a few bottles of water in my Guzzi and head ANYWHERE on it. It's been ridiculously reliable and, being very familiar with engines and mechanical/tech in general, I can't think of too many bikes I'd trust more.

The Sportster was even simpler and more trustworthy.

$.02



Note: that's not to say that newer, higher-tech machines aren't trustworthy and reliable. Don't confuse my appreciation of the simpler machines as "dissing" the higher-tech stuff. Gimme a CBR/RR for sport / track riding any day of the week. But for every day, get on and go stuff... gimme simple.  

Good to know because I'm leaning more towards a bike such as the GS or similar for my next major bike purchase. The shite roads up here in NEPA and not looking to improve anytime soon and a growing desire to explore roads I wouldn't take the Connie down, plus my personal silly need to pack the entire house on the bike is making me look at something like this. I've heard nothing but good about the GS series as far a touring capabilities and
they say the GS handles like a dream and is stupid-stable.

[chornbe]

The GS in particular has a huge and loyal following. The air-cooled boxers are, like the Guzzi, simple, easy to work on and maintain, and deliver power nicely. I personally don't like the "personality" of BMW's boxers, but I get why people love them, and you can't find too many negatives about the design; it's been around for a long, long time.  

[atadaskew]

Nice bike. Are they as solid and reliable a platform for a big enduro like the GS?

I've never heard of a FD failure on a Guzzi.

[SLK50]

I've never heard of a FD failure on a Guzzi.

    MG sends out a team of "cleaners" to make sure you never do.  

[ConPilot1]

Leon can fix anything.

[County Tar]

I've never heard of a FD failure on a Guzzi.

They have had failures in the CARC drive.  

[Rincewind]

Where did they put all that additional gas capacity?  Here is the old one - the 2010 NTX.  On the new one above, the tank looks very slightly larger at the top - but not enough to hide an additional 4-gallons of gas.

[chornbe]

Where did they put all that additional gas capacity?  Here is the old one - the 2010 NTX.  On the new one above, the tank looks very slightly larger at the top - but not enough to hide an additional 4-gallons of gas.

Maybe it lays under the seat some, like the Connie-14 does. Plus, it could be only marginally wider yet hold considerably more thanks to the shape.

They have had failures in the CARC drive.  

SHIT NOW I HAVE TO SELL MY GUZZI. PANIC!!!

[atadaskew]

    MG sends out a team of "cleaners" to make sure you never do.  

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli

[Biking Sailor]

My take was the 8.5 gal tank was an option.  Is this picture shown above with that option, or did I misread it and that 8.5 gall tank is the standard one?

[County Tar]

SHIT NOW I HAVE TO SELL MY GUZZI. PANIC!!!

Specifically in the Breva 1100's, as I recall.  

[chornbe]

Specifically in the Breva 1100's, as I recall.  

Damn it. Time to fire sale it.

Or just set it on fire.

I'll let you know.  

[BobW]

They did have a CARC issue on a few early bikes and unlike "another" company that denies several varieties of FD failures have been plaguing their offerings for too long, MG made corrections and replaced them across the VIN range. BTW, I also liked that when the new ape V4 engine had problems, Piaggio did a complete engine R+R across the board. I have no issues when a part fails, I do have a problem when "they all do that" is the "cure". Don't get me wrong, I am a huge BMW fan, but Kool Aid is an unacceptable option to getting problems reliably sorted (regardless the Brand). BMW has a huge leg up on MG with "good" dealership options and that is a huge cornerstone needed to be in place for any chance of long term success.  

The tank has room to expand where the glove box is on the right side and there is a matching void on the left that could handle tank expansion. After that, things are fairly tight unless they get their own version of "Fat Bob" tanks   Being the "Italian Harley", it could happen

[WitchCityBallabio]

Where did they put all that additional gas capacity?  Here is the old one - the 2010 NTX.  On the new one above, the tank looks very slightly larger at the top - but not enough to hide an additional 4-gallons of gas.

If you look carefully, you'll see that the tank now extends forward into the fairing. They've eliminated the little glove box on the right side as well. Previously that was all dead space.

[Rincewind]

If you look carefully, you'll see that the tank now extends forward into the fairing. They've eliminated the little glove box on the right side as well. Previously that was all dead space.

Very interesting.  I thought they may have done it that way.  Thanks.  

[garry]

I know it's a big girl, but as adventure bikes go, she's pretty good looking.

[ConPilot1]

I know it's a big girl, but as adventure bikes go, she's pretty good looking.

Agreed. Much better looking than the Tenere, but there is just something about those german 2 wheeled tractors that I like.
This bike looks like it's got a little more in the fairing/windshield department than the GS, which is a good thing.

[falconati]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT.  Will test ride.

[Pete Roper]

Good to see that Guzzi is still being besmirched with the usual torrents of inaccuracies, misinformation, ignorance and lies.

Firstly the Stelvio, (any of 'em.) uses the 'New', (It's been around for three years.) 4 valve per cylinder, Hi-Cam, (As opposed to Overhead Cam.) engine and is essentially liquid cooled only the liquid is oil rather than glycol. The motor runs two oil pumps, one low volume, high pressure for 'Lubrication', (ie, bearings.) and one high volume, low pressure for cooling. More so than the olhead BMW's this is the main source of 'Cooling' rather than finning on the motor's top end. While it still has 'Pushrods' these are essentially vestigial. why they used this design rather than the solid tappets as used on the 'Old' Hi-Cam engine I don't know, but they work. As long as the engine is set up and maintained properly it is stone-axe reliable. I've just done the 40,000 Km service on my 8V Griso and it has been, and remains, as boring as batshit in terms of reliability. Turn the key, press the button, watch the horizon come towards you, park. Repeat as neccessary! It'll loft the front wheel in third with a bit of a tug and I've hit the rev limiter in top which is 247KPH if you're thrilled by such irrelevant 'compensating for my tiny squirter' type figures. You can't run a loud pipe, the engine isn't designed for it, I'm not going to give a detailed explanation of why here, just believe me. Fitting an open pipe will rob you of 8 rear wheel brake horsepower and many ft/lbs of torque where you want it. If the Nuovo Hi-Cam has one fault it is that it is noisy. some are worse than others. Mine in Oz is TERRIBLE! It sounds like a cement mixer full of bricks!!!! Very early engines used in the '08 modelshad tappets made of cheese. The factory did a 'Technical Update', (A recall you have when you're not having a recall! ) and ANY 8V sold should of had it addressed although I'm stll getting ones sold by morons rolling through my workshop from time to time that haven't been done.

CARC failures were confined to a few early Griso 1100's and Breva 1100's. The cause was the factory buying in a few boxes of 'Free Grandfather Clock With Every Half Dozen' bearings from Poland. This was addressed by a full recall of all units, (some were outside the range and still had the 'bad' Bearing', My G11 was one of them.). The replacement bearing that superceeds the original has two more balls and a sturdier cage and is made in a country where people don't have bones through their noses or carry their money in their hair or in the form of swine. Unlike Bavarian Money Wasters the CARC is pretty much impregnable. Hugely over-engineered.

The Stelvio remains a huge, fat, pig of a thing. Just like the GS Bimmers. Nobody in their right mind would go outback on either of them. A DR400 with a sodding great Acerbis tank is a much more sensible option for 'serious' 'Adventure' riding. If you kit a Stelvio up with all the Polar Bear Smuggling kit though it does allow you to cut a fine dash while nipping 40Km down the road for a Skinny Soy Latte at the local Emporium de Shirt Lifter. It'll probably handle better than the Bavarian Pig and you won't have to spend *all* your time talking to dentists and washing machine salesmen at rallies either.

Pete

[County Tar]

Well, Pete, even with all the "inaccuracies, misinformation, ignorance and lies" its been a pretty positive thread so far hasn't it?  You're far too knowledgeable to be posting here.  Go back to WG where you belong.    

[SLK50]

Good to see that Guzzi is still being besmirched with the usual torrents of inaccuracies, misinformation, ignorance and lies.
Pete

  And that's from the owners here!    The rest of us are happy to just speculate.

  Sorry to hear about your 'tiny squirter' but you know what they say: "The smaller the dick,
the bigger the dick".

  And riding cross-country on a gear laden DR400 doesn't sound very appealing to me.
I would rather do it on something like a Stelvio or Super Tenere. I have a tendency to treat
my bikes like rented mules anyway.

[Roadscum]

  And riding cross-country on a gear laden DR400 doesn't sound very appealing to me.
I would rather do it on something like a Stelvio or Super Tenere. I have a tendency to treat
my bikes like rented mules anyway.

Ya don't seem to understand what the "outback"  is all about. When Peter say cross country he means over rugged dirt for many, many miles. I would agree this is not what the Stelvio does best. It's an Adventure Tourer, not a dirt bike.

I've ridded an '09 Stelvio for several days on the roads of N. Ga and NC. I like my Breva 1200 Sport better in that sort of riding situation.
I don't feel the Stelvio brings anytthing more to the table. As always, YMMV......

Regards, Paul

[chornbe]

I have a tendency to treat my bikes like rented mules anyway.

True story. I once saw him dress up his bike with a sombrero, mini skirt and dip it in a vat of KY and let a whole mule team have their way with the poor thing.

[chornbe]

Roper got his feelings hurt on Mild Guzzi and now he's crapping all over here. Darn, I thought I was done with both him and the obnoxious parts guy at my local dealer.

Stay away from bike-specific forums... they bring pain and woe to all, eventually.  

[SLK50]

True story.

  
  HAHAHA   You funny guy.

  Anyhow, I get the "outback" thing, just not my style right now.
I like to load up my bike and head out for a few days over all sorts of roads.
Adventure Touring bikes just suit my style better. It's not about pretense or image,
rather the ability to lash my "kit" to the bike. I can't imagine strapping all my
camping equipment to something like a Breva Sport. For the way I roll A-T bikes
make the most sense.

[Pete Roper]

Hmmmm. Humourless. Should of guessed. Motorbikes are a 'serious' business...... NOT!

Pete

[atadaskew]

Thanks for the reliability info Pete.
I'm a little bit confused..  did we propogate the 'lies, mistruths.." etc on this forum?  I think people are haing good natured fun here.

So do you think the Stelvio is not much good even if it's only bought as a touring bike?  For strictly road use?  Would you prefer the Norge 8V?
There are some really good deals on the 09s now.  But I kinda want ABS brakes if I put down $$ for a new bike.

I am liking the Griso 8V, and enjoyed my rides on one.

[R Doug]

Nice updates.  If I were replacing the 990 Adventure now, this would be at the top of my list.  

[Pete Roper]

Thanks for the reliability info Pete.
I'm a little bit confused..  did we propogate the 'lies, mistruths.." etc on this forum?  I think people are haing good natured fun here.

And my comments were made in the same vein. The thing is that there is an AWFUL lot of BS talked about Guzzis, usually from people who have never ridden one, have no knowledge of the marque's history and who simply regurgitate old model 'Reviews' from magazines and claim they are the gospel truth based on personal experience. The bikes themselves are generally and always have been, well designed and robust to the point of invincibility. What has let them down is bean counters in the purchasing area doing stuff like buying the carppy FET bearings for the early CARC's and an inadequate dealership network with few knowledgeable tradesmen to perform even the most basic of maintenance tasks.

So do you think the Stelvio is not much good even if it's only bought as a touring bike?  For strictly road use?  Would you prefer the Norge 8V?
There are some really good deals on the 09s now.  But I kinda want ABS brakes if I put down $$ for a new bike.

On the contrary, I think the Stelvio is a really fun bike. I'm actually considering purchasing one to replace my poor old Griso Pinko that got written off in Seattle recently. It is what it is though, it is NOT a big 'Chook Chaser' suitable for traversing the simpson desert, what it is is a very capable 'All Roads' tourer with slightly more ability on dirt roads than say a Norge or a Griso. The 2010 NTX which we get here still has the 'Small' tank, (Although my G8 consistently gets 20Km to the litre and since the 2010 Stelvio has milder cams and revised mapping it's ecconomy will probably be slightly better.) but it is probably good for 300Km between fuel stops easily. The 2011 model is going to get this HUGE 32 litre tank and there will still be the space behind the right hand pannier where you can fit a Stucchi auxilliary tank to take capacity up to 41 litres if you're really bonkers! The 2010 though uses the A8 motor, (Softer tune than the early ones which get the 'Full House' A5 Griso donk.)  and it's mapping is really nice, they run splendidly straight out of the box. The other BIG advantage of the NTX is that it uses a narrower rear rim meaning that you can get 'Proper' dual purpose tyres for the back so if you DO do mud and bull-dust your choice of tyres is better. They still use the rather odd 'Each spoke sealed with an o-ring' centre spoke rims though which I can see being a real pain in the arse a few years down the track. why they don't use peripheral spoke Excel (?) rims like Bimmers i have no idea, probably cost, although they DO use them on certain earlier Cali models?? Go figure?? The current and earlier Stelvios have acres of plasic all retained by fiddly little screws which enrage me, but I'm easily enraged! You can get the tank off without completely disassembling the plastic but its still not an easy job. What it will be like with the 32 litre tank model I shudder to think! Finally I think both the Norge 4V and the Stelvio NTX, (And most of the '09's from mid-year.) have ABS.

As for the Norge? Look, they are a comfortable tourer that love to eat miles but they are definitely a 'Road' bike. The early pushrod models have had a few issues with oil pumps and CARC pinnion nuts. why only early Norges? I have no idea! The biggest bane of the Norges though is their plastics which are very fragile and hard to keep intact and the fact that up until the 4 valve per cylinder models at least the suspension has been under-sprung and inadequately damped. Working on Norges is a pain in the arse. I hate 'em for that reason. Nice to ride. Rotten to work on!!!! If I was going to build a 'Touring' machine I'd luggage up a 1200 Sport-4V and stick a bigger screen on it. Better suspension, (Although still not up to Griso standard.) but none of the pain in the arse problems of the Norge. Oh. Sport 1200-4V uses yet another itteration of the 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' with an A7 designation. I haven't had time yet to work out how it differs from the A5 and A8 but they do fuel up and run VERY nicely straight out of the box.

The USA doesn't get the Bellagio either. A HUGE shame and a great mistake as it is one of the best kept secrets in motorcycling and by far and away my favorite 'Pushrod' Guzzi available at the moment.

Pete

[County Tar]

+1 on the Bellagio.  Wish they would bring it to the States.  

[atadaskew]

Excellent info Pete.

Final question...  what do you think of the Cali Vintage? I demoed one and it felt like a great bike to eat up the miles.  Are the tyres tubeless  (like the spoked rims on the Stelvio)?  I had an issue with the floor boards preventing me from getting into a position to use the rear brake.  Just a case of needing adjustments?

Those bikes also are going for big discounts right now.

TIA!

[Pete Roper]

Urrrgh! This is such a hard one for me to be objective about. I've been around and working on Guzzis fo thirty years. I love the Tonti framed models, and the Vintage is simply the last ittertion of the Tonti frame originally used on the V7 Sport in the early seventies. Thing is when the V7 sport was released it was truly a 'World Class' motorbike. It was fine tuned and developed and in my opinion reached it's acme with the advent of the Mk III LeMans, or, in 'touring' trim the Cali II like wot Daniel rides. Ever since then they have added size, weight and complexity. I'm not talking about fuel injection and electronics, I'm talking silly things like cam-adjustment for load with the linked brakes, the bigger frame with a taller steering head and ever longer swingarms. Yes, some of the developments have been good. MAny have been less so. The use of 3205ATN9 bearings in the gearbox being a prime example, for why? COST of course! ATN9's cost $10 per bike less than the previous AC3 bearings!!!! The fact they fall to bits eventually, (Especially when ridden by codgers who think a Guzzi big block should never rev beyond 4 grand!) is irrelevant as the bike will be out of warranty before it happens in most cases but it still grates with me that one of the GREAT and longest enduring motorbike designs reached its appogee nearly thirty years ago and since then it has been mainly downhill.

The Vintage is the  last of the Tonti's. It will have kudos for that and many people still adore everything the Tonti is and was, shit! I own several of them myself and the LAST bike I'd ever sell would be my V1000 Convert, y'know? The crappy automatic everyone hates! . The fact is though that in every defineable, assessable, parameter the CARC bikes are light years ahead of ANY Tonti.

If you like the Vintage? They are a fine machine. But they are also an anachronism. Nothing wrong with that per-se and they WILL eat miles, especially freeway miles, with comfort and aplomb and will out handle almost all of their 'competitors' in that niche but they aren't by any stretch of the imagination a 'Modern' motorbike.

The most important thing is to go in with your eyes wide open and look at what you are buying. No, the wheels aren't tubeless, (A retrograde step as I mentioned before.) but for its intended use not a deal breaker. Also many '03/'04 Calis which had the much maligned 'Hydro' engine have been wrecked out and they DID have the radially spoked tubeless wheels and they come up on Fleabay from time to time. They will bolt straight on. If you want a 'Cruiser'? well, not getting the Bellagio it's your only Guzzi choice. Personally I'd go Norge or 1200 Sport, but I'm not you.

Pete

[Moto Morphin Power Ranger]

I like this Pete guy  

[atadaskew]

I like this Pete guy  

No kidding.  Reading his posts has been as informative as hanging out with the doods from Moto Guzzi Classics in Long Beach.

Stick around Pete.  

[crispiegee1]

If I was going to build a 'Touring' machine I'd luggage up a 1200 Sport-4V and stick a bigger screen on it. Better suspension, (Although still not up to Griso standard.) but none of the pain in the arse problems of the Norge. Oh. Sport 1200-4V uses yet another itteration of the 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' with an A7 designation. I haven't had time yet to work out how it differs from the A5 and A8 but they do fuel up and run VERY nicely straight out of the box.

When I read that the 1200-4V only made 10 more horsepower than the two-valve version, I felt like I'd just as soon have the two-valve version for simplicity.

I'm not a whiz mechanic like some of you guys, so I figured I'd have less to fiddle with in terms of engine maintenance. Am I crazy?

[Gee-Tee]

Stelvio's do not have pushrods, they use single overhead camshaft driven by Morse chains. Sweet engine!

[Pete Roper]

Stelvio's do not have pushrods, they use single overhead camshaft driven by Morse chains. Sweet engine!

No shit Sherlock



look at part #12. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and performs the same function as a duck it isn't a rhinocerous. Guzzi call it a 'Rocker Rod' but most people call 'em pushrods. It's also not an overhead cam design, it's a cam in head design, as was the earlier 4VPC big block as used in Daytonas and Centauros. Not trying to be deliberately pedantic but there IS a difference between the two.

Pete

[Pete Roper]

When I read that the 1200-4V only made 10 more horsepower than the two-valve version, I felt like I'd just as soon have the two-valve version for simplicity.

I'm not a whiz mechanic like some of you guys, so I figured I'd have less to fiddle with in terms of engine maintenance. Am I crazy?

Fair enough. the 2VPC 1200 is a very nice engine but the power difference is closer to 25 Hp than 10. A decent 1200-2V will put out about 76-78 RWHP, a properly tuned 4VPC will make 105 in A5 trim, probably a fraction less in A7 trim.

Pete

[Gee-Tee]

No shit Sherlock



look at part #12. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and performs the same function as a duck it isn't a rhinocerous. Guzzi call it a 'Rocker Rod' but most people call 'em pushrods. It's also not an overhead cam design, it's a cam in head design, as was the earlier 4VPC big block as used in Daytonas and Centauros. Not trying to be deliberately pedantic but there IS a difference between the two.

Pete

I'm going to have to call BULLSHIT on the not an overhead cam design... read this from the Moto Guzzi web page. I believe if they built it they should know.
ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION
New verve from the Quattrovalvole engine.
The Stelvio 1200 ABS is powered by the first evolution of the “Quattrovalvole” engine, which was presented in 2006 and is universally acknowledged as being the most advanced iteration yet of the legendary transverse 90° V-twin. For this new version of the engine, low and mid range responsiveness has been significantly improved to better suit the character of the Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 ABS as an all terrain machine. The engineers at the Mandello based marque optimized the camshaft profile and the air box to increase maximum torque from 108 Nm produced at 6400 rpm to 113 Nm available at just 5800 rpm. These results have been attained without compromising this power plant’s claim to fame as being the most powerful and fastest production engine ever built by Moto Guzzi.
This highly sophisticated mechanical gem, which is unique in terms of both architecture and engineering clarity, is built using advanced componentry and technical solutions. These include the single overhead camshaft driven by Morse chains with a hydraulic tensioner, the forged pistons with 3 piston rings, cooled by oil jets in the crankcase, ultra-light valves with 5 mm stems and conical valve springs that eliminate resonance and power loss at high engine speeds. The engine is lubricated and cooled by two separate oil circuits, with two coaxial gear driven pumps. In the cooling circuit, engine oil is fed via separate conduits in the head to reach the exhaust valve seats - where the highest temperatures are generated - and the heat is then dissipated by an oil cooler, which is located at the front of the engine for maximum exposure to the air flow. The lubrication circuit feeds all the vital organs of the engine, such as the crankshaft and connecting rod bearings and the valve timing components.
The heat generated by the impressive power produced by the engine is dissipated by cooling fins, with a modern design and tapered toward the front of the cylinders, while the valve covers - which proudly flaunt the “Quattrovalvole” moniker - feature floating mounting system to reduce mechanical noise. The “Quattrovalvole” engine introduces new Marelli IWP 189 fuel injectors installed on the intake ducts of the 50 mm diameter throttle bodies. The gearbox is a genuine six speed mechanical gem that excels for quietness, an easily selectable neutral position and precision, thanks also to the introduction of the quiet and smooth new single plate clutch. The new clutch differs from the previous version as it has less flywheel inertia and is more fade resistant and easier to use.
http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/en_US/prodotti/touring/stelvio/stelvio_1200_abs/default.aspx

[crispiegee1]

I'm going to have to call BULLSHIT on the not an overhead cam design... read this from the Moto Guzzi web page. I believe if they built it they should know.
ENGINE AND TRANSMISSION
New verve from the Quattrovalvole engine.
The Stelvio 1200 ABS is powered by the first evolution of the “Quattrovalvole” engine, which was presented in 2006 and is universally acknowledged as being the most advanced iteration yet of the legendary transverse 90° V-twin. For this new version of the engine, low and mid range responsiveness has been significantly improved to better suit the character of the Moto Guzzi Stelvio 1200 ABS as an all terrain machine. The engineers at the Mandello based marque optimized the camshaft profile and the air box to increase maximum torque from 108 Nm produced at 6400 rpm to 113 Nm available at just 5800 rpm. These results have been attained without compromising this power plant’s claim to fame as being the most powerful and fastest production engine ever built by Moto Guzzi.
This highly sophisticated mechanical gem, which is unique in terms of both architecture and engineering clarity, is built using advanced componentry and technical solutions. These include the single overhead camshaft driven by Morse chains with a hydraulic tensioner, the forged pistons with 3 piston rings, cooled by oil jets in the crankcase, ultra-light valves with 5 mm stems and conical valve springs that eliminate resonance and power loss at high engine speeds. The engine is lubricated and cooled by two separate oil circuits, with two coaxial gear driven pumps. In the cooling circuit, engine oil is fed via separate conduits in the head to reach the exhaust valve seats - where the highest temperatures are generated - and the heat is then dissipated by an oil cooler, which is located at the front of the engine for maximum exposure to the air flow. The lubrication circuit feeds all the vital organs of the engine, such as the crankshaft and connecting rod bearings and the valve timing components.
The heat generated by the impressive power produced by the engine is dissipated by cooling fins, with a modern design and tapered toward the front of the cylinders, while the valve covers - which proudly flaunt the “Quattrovalvole” moniker - feature floating mounting system to reduce mechanical noise. The “Quattrovalvole” engine introduces new Marelli IWP 189 fuel injectors installed on the intake ducts of the 50 mm diameter throttle bodies. The gearbox is a genuine six speed mechanical gem that excels for quietness, an easily selectable neutral position and precision, thanks also to the introduction of the quiet and smooth new single plate clutch. The new clutch differs from the previous version as it has less flywheel inertia and is more fade resistant and easier to use.
http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/en_US/prodotti/touring/stelvio/stelvio_1200_abs/default.aspx

But then again, Moto Guzzi doesn't seem to realize that their own engine is longitudinal, not transverse, as the crankshaft is parallel to the vehicle's centerline. I HATE when they call it transverse. What determines transverse, then? What Harley does? What LOOKS sideways? No, what is universally accepted to be the definition of transverse vs. longitudinal.

So if they can't get that right, I'm willing to accept Peter's definition and assume they think "overhead cam" sounds sexier than trying to explain a "cam-in-head-plus-little-tiny-pushrods" arrangement. Hell, they even half fibbed about it being the "most powerful" production Guzzi engine... I guess they consider the MGS-01 non-production, even though it was a factory item. (Albeit in tiny numbers.)

[Pete Roper]

Try reading an engineering and automotive design textbook instead of a press release.

You'll find that the definition of a 'Single Overhead Cam' design is just that. A single camshaft operating ABOVE the combustion chamber with rockers that act directly between the cam and valves. An example of this is shown below.





combine the assemblies in the two diagrams and you'll see what I mean. That is an Aprilia Mana BTW.

A 'Double Overhead Cam' *usually* uses individual camshafts operating directly on buckets above the valves. There are exceptions but this is the 'norm'. as shown below.





Once again combine the two. That's from a Shiver.

The Nuovo 8V as used on the current big blocks is a 'Cam in head' design more reminicent of Rileys and Velocettes of fifty or sixty years ago. Does this mean it's a bad thing? Not at all. It is a wonderfully simple piece of architecture and I love it for its simplicity and the way it works so well. What makes it possible for an engine like this to be produced anywhere near affordably nowadays is the advent of modern machining techniques and the accuracy that comes from them but a 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' is still an expensive machine to produce compared to something like an across the frame four which is essentially assembled in 'Sheets' with shafts and rods in between.

You are more than welcome to believe the press release if you so desire. The thing is it is just that. A press release to allow them to gasconade about their 'New' technology in a way that will appeal to?? well?? the sort of people for whom press releases are important. I personally preffer to rely on experience, history, engineering descriptions and fact. But what would I know eh??

Pete

PS, the Shiver engine design is one of the nicest, simplest and most practical I've seen in years. I love it, and it works! Nearly 100HP from 750cc reliably. If only they'd give it real suspension!!!!

[chornbe]

I love how we can even argue about engine designs here on ST.N.

[Moto Morphin Power Ranger]

I love how we can even argue about engine designs here on ST.N.

dude shut up i am trying to learn.

[chornbe]

dude shut up i am trying to learn.

Fair point.  

Your standard overhead cam engine uses followers (that pivot on one end and "follow" the cam action) that actuate the valves directly. Cam -> follower -> valve. These valve trains are simpler with fewer moving parts and usually involve less movement of mass.

Most pushrod engines use lifters or followers that push a rod that actuates a reversing-action rocker (that pivots in the middle) to actuate the valves. Cam -> lifter -> rod -> rocker -> valve. These valve trains usually involve more move parts and more movement of mass. They are typically used in lower-RPM applications.

The Guzzi design, according to the diagram pete offered up appears to use a reversing-action rocker system. While it is not a cam-follower design, the cam is located above the combustion chamber and is driven by a chain that has to extend up through the engine.

In short, to me it looks like a half-assed attempt to build "an overhead cam engine" by someone who's never seen any other company's design, or who is mired in 1930s design.

It *is* an overhead cam design that uses rockers. It's also perfectly acceptable and appropriate for the performance characteristics and rev range of the engine.

In short... quit pissing in each others' Wheaties about it.

Both sides of this stupid-ass argument are "right enough".

ST.N: Experts in - and interpreters of - Everything.

[Biking Sailor]

dude shut up i am trying to learn.

Wow! learning something from the STN forums?  A little chilly down there?  

Actually, I appreciate the this type of discussion and the information from the long time Guzzisti folks.  I am learning alot!

[crispiegee1]

I love this too.

While I wouldn't open up a shop manual and just start reading it (those exploded diagrams make my head spin), having it explained and compared is very helpful.  

And Pete, your point about the additional power of the four-valve engine - combined with your explanation of how it works - makes me like the four-valve engine again. Somewhere I had read that the Norge GT only gained ten horsepower over the previous model, so I thought, "Gee, it's hardly worth the added complexity." But I should know better than to believe what magazine writers say about Guzzis!

[It's seriously aggravating the myths perpetuated by these so-called professionals. Like the car magazine guys who wonder why GM doesn't get the same specific power output of a 6.2 liter V8 with pushrods as BMW gets out of a 4.4 liter V8 with four cams and 32 valves. Gee, maybe the GM engine is 1/3 the cost, easier to work on, more durable, has more useful power delivery and even gets better fuel mileage? Anyway, sorry - I'm getting off-topic. Back to our regularly scheduled rumble.]

[Gee-Tee]

http://www.harley-oldschool-bobber.com/harley_xlh_ironhead_top_end/harley_ironhead_rocker_arm_covers_and_push_rods.php

These rods will push for sure!

[chornbe]

[It's seriously aggravating the myths perpetuated by these so-called professionals. Like the car magazine guys who wonder why GM doesn't get the same specific power output of a 6.2 liter V8 with pushrods as BMW gets out of a 4.4 liter V8 with four cams and 32 valves. Gee, maybe the GM engine is 1/3 the cost, easier to work on, more durable, has more useful power delivery and even gets better fuel mileage? Anyway, sorry - I'm getting off-topic. Back to our regularly scheduled rumble.]

*nods*

In the real world, a HUGE component of "better" is cost. Another is life in the real world.

For 99.9% of the real-world drivers out there, a $20,000 ford or chevy is a "better" car than a $100k+ sport exotica.

Cost HAS to be factored in. So does real world usability.

[Roadscum]

*nods*

In the real world, a HUGE component of "better" is cost. Another is life in the real world.

For 99.9% of the real-world drivers out there, a $20,000 ford or chevy is a "better" car than a $100k+ sport exotica.

Cost HAS to be factored in. So does real world usability.

The thing that matters most is the size of the a ride will put on your face....... oh yeah!!  





 

[Pete Roper]

But I should know better than to believe what magazine writers say about Guzzis!

To mis-quote Frank Thring "Darling! Journalists are like eunuchs! They've seen how! They just can't do it themselves!"

Pete

[Daniel Kalal]

If you do a Google-Image search on "cam in head" you'll get the expected pictures of BMW boxers (far more cam-in-heads produced by them than Guzzi could ever dream of) but also this interesting GM Opel design from the early sixties:



The valve cover on my Guzzi Daytona says OHC, which must have produced a snicker by Umberto Todero who certainly knew better.

[Pete Roper]

The valve cover on my Guzzi Daytona says OHC, which must have produced a snicker by Umberto Todero who certainly knew better.

Yup, and he managed to achieve wonders with next to no backing! One of the funny little details is the pitch on the timing and oil pump gears on the early Hi-Cams. Apparently, according to Phil, who knows about such obscuranti,  the pitch is some weird form that nobody else in the world has used since about 1932!!! Presumably Todero said! "Make me some timing gears!" so whoever was on gear duty that day went out the back and rootled around in the box of half munted and worn out hobbers and found the least rusty and worn tooling and started cutting gears so we all got lumbered with weirdsville timing gears!!!!!  

Pete

[stevent]

Fascinating, I always liked Guzzi's particularly the Norge` and Stelvio. Maybe when I wear out my GS I'll go have a look and see what I can do. Moto International here in Seattle is (from all appearances ) a top line dealership which for me removes about 99% of my concerns over actually owning one

[Daniel Kalal]

...Moto International here in Seattle is (from all appearances ) a top line dealership...

You could make an argument that they're in the small handful of best dealerships, worldwide.  I'd put Agostini's (in Mandello del Lario) in that group, and I'd have to put our own Pete Roper in there as well (although his showroom lacks a certain polish and he's not a dealer--being an authorized repair facility).  Actually, with just a few exceptions, a Guzzi dealership deals with Guzzi because the owner loves them.  Most are smart enough to know that the way to a large forture is not through selling Guzzis.

[Pete Roper]

You could make an argument that they're in the small handful of best dealerships, worldwide.  I'd put Agostini's (in Mandello del Lario) in that group, and I'd have to put our own Pete Roper in there as well

Carefull Daniel, I know I have double doors on the workshop but I'll have trouble getting my head in if you keep that sort of stuff up!

(although his showroom lacks a certain polish and he's not a dealer--being an authorized repair facility).

I resent that! I went and had a look under the bench. I have a tin of polish. It was all dry and crusty! Had a tin of wax too. That was also all dry and crusty..... hmmmmm

 Actually, with just a few exceptions, a Guzzi dealership deals with Guzzi because the owner loves them.  Most are smart enough to know that the way to a large forture is not through selling Guzzis.

How do you turn a small fortune into a much more miniscule fortune? Become a Guzzi dealer!!!!!

Pete

[atadaskew]

$12K for new 2009 Stelvios w/ luggage, engine guards, handguards, cover..

How are these bikes for 2-up riding?

[Gee-Tee]

Look at the size of the rear seat, even ample bottom girls will rave over it! Seriously, if you ride it two up get a topbox much more comfy for the GIB (girl in back).

[WitchCityBallabio]

$12K for new 2009 Stelvios w/ luggage, engine guards, handguards, cover..

How are these bikes for 2-up riding?

My wife and I did 2400 miles 2 up with a lot of gear on one in Italy and she found it pretty comfortable.

[Chronic]

Pete Roper is now on ST.N. !!........I've been gone for quite awhile, but, I'm coming back, baby. .....even though I bought a GS earlier this year instead of a Stelvio

Two Guzzi's in the Garage is enough for now..........

[crispiegee1]

Pete Roper is now on ST.N. !!........I've been gone for quite awhile, but, I'm coming back, baby. .....even though I bought a GS earlier this year instead of a Stelvio

Yes, and he's been quite busy dispelling myths and providing helpful tech advice. We'll just ignore that purchase of a big, ugly GS.

Two Guzzi's in the Garage is enough for now..........

Bite your tongue!     Hell, my brother has three of the same model in his garage, and all of them are even the same color.  

[Chronic]

My biggest mistake (no, not buying the GS!!) was selling my Jackal.  That thing was so stable it easily hung with my Sportbike pals

[danketchpel]

I am interested in a Stelvio NTX. I would like to hear from those who have ridden or owned one about how they actually work out in the real world. I'd like to know about the power curve of the "retuned" engine, how's the clutch and gearbox, how is the suspension and handling, and important things like how well the fairing/windscreen work, vibration levels, how's the seat after 300 miles, are the bags any good, etc.... I was glad to read they are good for two up, that's super important for me.

I don't need to argue about the size of the pushrods and cam placement. I have a good understanding of that stuff already. I hugely appreciate Pete's comments about various problem parts such as sub standard bearings etc. Any further info of that nature that is particular to the Stelvio would be helpful. I haven't dealt with a Guzzi since the early '80s, have they gotten their electrics sorted out? I don't necessarily mean just the components, but also the switch gear, wiring, and connection points as well.

It's also not so clear from Guzzi's literature, or miserable website, exactly when the 8.4 gal tank and retuned engine became available, was it in 2011 or 2012? Is there a better source of accurate year to year changes?

I haven't really gotten a fair "picture" of what it's like to live with this bike yet.

[WitchCityBallabio]

I am interested in a Stelvio NTX. I would like to hear from those who have ridden or owned one about how they actually work out in the real world. I'd like to know about the power curve of the "retuned" engine, how's the clutch and gearbox, how is the suspension and handling, and important things like how well the fairing/windscreen work, vibration levels, how's the seat after 300 miles, are the bags any good, etc.... I was glad to read they are good for two up, that's super important for me.

I don't need to argue about the size of the pushrods and cam placement. I have a good understanding of that stuff already. I hugely appreciate Pete's comments about various problem parts such as sub standard bearings etc. Any further info of that nature that is particular to the Stelvio would be helpful. I haven't dealt with a Guzzi since the early '80s, have they gotten their electrics sorted out? I don't necessarily mean just the components, but also the switch gear, wiring, and connection points as well.

It's also not so clear from Guzzi's literature, or miserable website, exactly when the 8.4 gal tank and retuned engine became available, was it in 2011 or 2012? Is there a better source of accurate year to year changes?

I haven't really gotten a fair "picture" of what it's like to live with this bike yet.

I've either been lucky, or the electrics are better as I've never had any trouble with any of my Guzzi's electrically (or much anything else either)

I find the power band of the engine to be very nice, the seating position and the seat pretty comfy. I found the windscreen not really that great for me with a fair amount of buffeting, so I put the Givi windscreen on (just a little taller) and the problem was solved.

I like the handling of the bike. It handles like it is much lighter than it is. With the suspension dialed in correctly, it tracks nicely.

There are a lot of comments and discussion on this thread on ADV Rider. There are actually a couple of Stelvio threads if you're interested. Some good opinions, experiences etc.


Check it out here

[danketchpel]

I've either been lucky, or the electrics are better as I've never had any trouble with any of my Guzzi's electrically (or much anything else either)

I find the power band of the engine to be very nice, the seating position and the seat pretty comfy. I found the windscreen not really that great for me with a fair amount of buffeting, so I put the Givi windscreen on (just a little taller) and the problem was solved.

I like the handling of the bike. It handles like it is much lighter than it is. With the suspension dialed in correctly, it tracks nicely.

There are a lot of comments and discussion on this thread on ADV Rider. There are actually a couple of Stelvio threads if you're interested. Some good opinions, experiences etc.


Check it out here

Thanks for the feedback. I'm on ADV Rider, I'll scout out those threads.

I found a couple online reviews of the Stelvio. I saw a comment about the engine vibrations being worse below 5k rpm while riding 6th gear at somewhat legal speeds, say 75mph. The tester found it better riding in 5th, would you agree with that? Where would you say the engine starts to pull well from, meaning without shudder etc.?

[BobW]

+1 on AdvRider. The newer tune cured 99% of a rough transition spot that would show up in the 3K range depending on load, etc. You have to look for it now. The bike is a big twin and I would say it has a nice "throbbing" rather than bad vibrations, but some test rider coming off 4's for the most part could have a different opinion. I would say the throttle bodies needed a sync if it was at an annoying level. I loved my R1200R and the Stelvio won me over with better gearing, smoother transmission, and now that it's broken in getting mid 40 MPG on regular basis (with conditions resulting in a few more or less as the exceptions). The big tank will be on the next gen bike, the NTX currently has the available options as standard equipment, crash protection, driving lights, etc., and the big change is the thinner rear rim that allows the use of more off road oriented tires VS the 5.5 w/180. I put appx 20K on mine camping all over the country and she never let me down, handles fantastic, uses no oil and the "small" tank will get you 150-200 miles depending on your situation and habits. It is overbuilt compared to the BMW and it's even easier to service. She sounds SEXY  

Cheers