Breva 750 or 1100?

[flip]

I have a question for you Guzzi guys. How would you compare the 750 and 1100 models?

I have been wanting to trade bikes for a few years and recently, the Brevas have risen to the top of my list of bikes I can almost afford (1 kid in his 2nd year of college and another kid that will be starting college in 3 years so toy money is tight and will be for a while).

So far, I have not been able to see either model in person. What I know comes from reading reviews.

I am a big guy, 6'1" and 300+. I have been with my re-entry bike (600 Bandit) for a few years. The power on it is adequate for me though I must say that I liked the torque on my previous bike(82 GS1100E) much better! If it wasn't for that 4 cylinder buzz in the handlebars that keeps putting my hands to sleep, I'd just keep my Bandit until I could afford a Guzzi or BMW touring bike.

So, if I can score a Breva, do I go for the light weight 750 or torquey 1100?

[Biking Sailor]

I have only ridden a 750 Breva once, used 2005 with about 12000 miles.  Suspension seem a little weak and not as adjustable as my 1200 Sport.  I'm under 200 pounds so I can't speak to how it would feel with a big guy on it.  Others on here could speak more to it's abilities.  Power was what I expected, nice pull for around town, but you do have to keep it in it's power range to get it to work.  Of course if I was going with a small block Guzzi, it would be the V7 Classic!    That bike just calls to me.

If I were you, I'd definitely considers Chris' 1100 Breva, his experiences with it are well documented here and it sounds like it is pretty well sorted and at a nice price level.  

[chornbe]

I have a question for you Guzzi guys. How would you compare the 750 and 1100 models?

I have been wanting to trade bikes for a few years and recently, the Brevas have risen to the top of my list of bikes I can almost afford (1 kid in his 2nd year of college and another kid that will be starting college in 3 years so toy money is tight and will be for a while).

So far, I have not been able to see either model in person. What I know comes from reading reviews.

I am a big guy, 6'1" and 300+. I have been with my re-entry bike (600 Bandit) for a few years. The power on it is adequate for me though I must say that I liked the torque on my previous bike(82 GS1100E) much better! If it wasn't for that 4 cylinder buzz in the handlebars that keeps putting my hands to sleep, I'd just keep my Bandit until I could afford a Guzzi or BMW touring bike.

So, if I can score a Breva, do I go for the light weight 750 or torquey 1100?

I'd skip the 750. The 1100 and 750 are not ergonomically identical. In fact, the bikes actually share very little other than gross design cues. The 1100 is pretty roomy. The engine in the Brevas and Grisos are canted forward a few degrees to mitigate (and almost completely eliminate) very long-legged riders' complaints on earlier machines about their knees being close to the heads.

The power delivery on the 1100 is rather dreamy.   Very linear, very practical and with a nice but not eye-bleeding top-end charge. It's well mannered and smooth, with very little fuel-injection crankiness. I understand the 1200 Sports had some flat spots in the fueling that are not terribly problematic, but the 1100s appear to be less affected.

The bike feels lighter than it is, but does feel marginally heavier than the 750. The 750 is a beautiful, but less-appointed bike. I much prefer the dual disc front brakes on the 1100; similar to other single vs. dual bikes, the duals are just so much more modulatable and forgiving.

Member Pete Roper can provide ample technical information, I'm sure.

[flip]

Thank you for your reply. I agree that the V7 classic is a beautiful bike! My wrist and knees prefer a more relaxed riding position these days.

I see that you have an SV650. I know this is an apples to oranges type of comparison but how did the Guzzi 750 engine feel compared to your SV? I know the SV has considerably more HP on the top end but did they feel comparable up to say, 5000-6000 RPM? My son bought a new leftover SV650S this year so I have that for a point of reference.

Thanks,
Phil

[flip]

Thanks for the info Chris. Roomier sounds good! It sounds like the 1100 would be the better choice for me. There are a couple of nice, low mileage 750s for sale about an hour away from me but I haven't seen any 1100s nearby.

[Biking Sailor]

My old SV naked feels like it will run circles around a 750 Breva.  The SV is more of a sporty bike and the Breva is a small road bike.  Similar size but that's about it.  The little Breva sounds much better, but what doesn't sound better than a SV?  

[flip]

Thank you. I almost bought a used, low mileage SV a few weeks ago. A local dealer in has an older, 2nd generation naked model with an Ohlins shock and a Yoshimura exhaust. There was a small dent in the gas tank that had 2 different stories from the salesmen there as to how it happened, only that the bike had never been down. They couldn't/wouldn't explain the numerous small spots of damage that added up to make it look like the bike has hit the pavement, probably at least twice.  

I've owned nothing but Suzukis since I bought my 1st bike in 1978. There is just something about Moto Guzzis that makes me want to switch brands. Several years ago, I saw a Moto Guzzi with an aftermarket exhaust riding slowly through a parking lot in town. It sounded like it was turning about 500 RPM. The sound was amazing!

[flip]

I just heard back from the owner of a Breva 750 that is for sale locally. It is a 2007 with less than 1000 miles. It has Fast by Ferracci mufflers and a Power Commander III. Price-$4000.

In the photos, it looks like it has been lowered but the owner claims it is stock. I suspect that he isn't the original owner and the perhaps the 1st owner did lower it. Assuming it has been lowered, are stock length or longer shocks available?

Does this sound like a good deal?

I know the 1100 Breva would be the smart choice for me but logic rarely comes in to play when motorcycle shopping.

[Biking Sailor]

Just getting to know Guzzis as a 7 month owner, I doubt that 2007 with only 1000 miles has been well sorted.  I believe the guys that say it takes 20000 miles to get it sorted and then it is trouble free.

Without a warranty backing it up, I would be a little nervous.  That's not saying it isn't a good deal, just me being scared of the unknown.    That said, there is a great bunch here that could lend exceptional advice when the sorting begins!  

[JamesG]

You'll find a Breva 750 underwhelming after the B-600. It has enough low down torque to get out of its own way, and much more character, but it does not have a lot of top end power.  Its also a very small bike.  I'm 6' 1" and when riding my wife's 750ie, I've had friends make "monkey humping a football" comments.  

Its fun to toss around if you like riding a slow bike fast, but for a big guy, you should be looking at the 1100.

[flip]

Gentlemen and others   , I really appreciate your advice. I've been told I look like a gorilla on a tricycle when I'm on my B6. I wear a 58 jacket and have 37" sleeves. The 750 Breva would probably look like a mini bike under me. I guess I better keep saving.

I guess I should have spelled out my needs for a bike. I want something to jump on to do errands on and to occassionally ride the 1.5 hrs up to Boone, NC to visit my son at school and of course ride around in the mountains on. I want something that handles okay, feels relaxed on the open road and has very little vibration in the handlebars. I need an upright riding position such as on a standard or adventure tourer.

[atadaskew]

I just heard back from the owner of a Breva 750 that is for sale locally. It is a 2007 with less than 1000 miles. It has Fast by Ferracci mufflers and a Power Commander III. Price-$4000. ...

I know the 1100 Breva would be the smart choice for me but logic rarely comes in to play when motorcycle shopping.

Save up for the 1100.  I've ridden the 750 and it is 'adequate' for my 150lbs...

[Biking Sailor]

Gentlemen and others   , I really appreciate your advice. I've been told I look like a gorilla on a tricycle when I'm on my B6. I wear a 58 jacket and have 37" sleeves. The 750 Breva would probably look like a mini bike under me. I guess I better keep saving.

I guess I should have spelled out my needs for a bike. I want something to jump on to do errands on and to occassionally ride the 1.5 hrs up to Boone, NC to visit my son at school and of course ride around in the mountains on. I want something that handles okay, feels relaxed on the open road and has very little vibration in the handlebars. I need an upright riding position such as on a standard or adventure tourer.

$4k for the 750?  Again, Chris' 1100 is just a bit more...  and would meet those needs well!

[vitaminC]

As a former owner of the 750, I think you're better off holding out for the 1100. The little Breva looks and sounds fantastic, but for your size I think it's way too small. You might also consider looking at the older BMW R bikes, as they may also fit your needs.

[flip]

Again, Chris' 1100 is just a bit more...  and would meet those needs well!

If that is the red one up for trade in Penn., I didn't see a price on it. I will admit though to being a bit sick and medicated at the moment so I may have just missed the price.

[Pete Roper]

Apart from both being shaft drive V twins made by the same manufacturer and bearing the 'Breva' name the two machines have nothing in common.

Guzzi have for the lsat thirty years produced to 'Families' of bikes, the 'Big Blocks' on which the 1100 is based and the 'Small Blocks' of which the Breva 750 is the last itteration.

I'll declare my bias in that I don't like the smallblocks. When first produced in the mid/late seventies they were designed as a 350/500cc motor and even the 500's were a bit fragile. Build quality and materials improved and they eventually were made reliable. The 'New' 750 motor used in the Breva/V7 Special is in and of itself pretty bulletproof apart from its very small oil capacity but it's gearbox, still the same rather mediocre five speed item fitted to all smallblocks since the dawn of time, does sometimes have problems. The reasons for this are twofold. Firstly the tooling used to machine the componentry is now at least 40 years old and close to worn out, secondly the case hardening on some batches of components tends to be a bit 'How's yer father?' If you get a good one, they tend to be fine. Bad ones tend to be real horrors!

Also by contempory standards the smallblocks are underpowered and any 'Enhancement' is virtually impossible due to their herron head combustion chambers. What you buy is what you get. You can't hop them up.

Suspension is best described as 'Rudimentary'. Handling is sweet but limited by the frame and suspension design penned by Lino Tonti in the mid seventies. The smallblocks were always designed as a machine to compete directly with the Japanese on price. In the late seventies a V50 actually cost LESS than a CX500 Honda in most markets. To achieve that corners had to be cut. The evidence of that corner cutting is still apparent in the latest smallblocks.

I'll let you dwell on that and a bit later I'll give you the skinny on the 'Big Blocks' but I gotta go do some work now!

Pete

[chornbe]

$4k for the 750?  Again, Chris' 1100 is just a bit more...  and would meet those needs well!

I have buell lust, so while I'm not *actively* pushing to sell the Guzzi at the moment, it's clearly the case that *everything* is for sale for a price

I'd like to get $5000, or $5500 delivered to your door.  

[blakebird]

 The engine in the Brevas and Grisos are canted forward a few degrees to mitigate (and almost completely eliminate) very long-legged riders' complaints on earlier machines about their knees being close to the heads.

I thought it was the relocation of the alternator from the front of the motor. That shortened it and allowed it to be moved forward and provide a bit more legroom.

[Pete Roper]

OK, a brief synopsis of the history of the Big Blocks.

Essentially, motor wise, the big block engine remained much the same from the first V7 in 1967 through to the current 2 valve per cylinder 1200 motors. Yes, the capacity has increased and over recent years the factory has played around with a variery of different bores and strokes and different R/S ratios but the motor is basically the same unit now as it was in 1967. Lots of things HAVE of course changed but you'd be surprised at how similar, and how many parts are interchangeable, between a brand new Guzzi motor and one three decades old!

There have over that period been three basic frame types before the inception of the CARC bikes, Loop frame, Tonti frame and Spine frame. With the post Piaggio bikes the big block has more frame options than at any time previously!

Clutch/flywheel assemblies have got progressively lighter over the years and apart from a few models that used a 'Bought in' single plate item all have used the tried and trusted twin-plate design with the original eight springs being upgraded to ten on later models to enable the clutch to better handle the increased power outputs of the motors.

Gearboxes have been of three essential types. Early models had a four speed which was later extensively modified and a fifth gear was added at the rear of the box. The five speed box remained the box, with a few minor changes to ratios and dog numbers, from about 1974 all the way through to the current, final, run of California models. With the launch of the V11 series in the late 1990's we got not only the spine frame but a new six speed gearbox. This remained in production until the launch of the Breva/Griso 1100's which as well as having a 'Nuovo six speed' also have the CARC reactive rear drive.

Final drives on all models up to and including the latest Californias that utilize the five speed gearbox bolt directly to the swingarm and use twin shocks, (Apart from the Quota which is a real 'Weird Harold' orphan in the Guzzi line up!) Three or four final drive ratios are or were available but most use either a 7/33 or 8/33 ratio. With the advent of the spineframes a new bevelbox was designed and ran a reactive system with an exposed driveshaft and the box pivoting on the rear wheel spindle. While the system was improved over the years it still has one or two weaknesses that mean maintenace is important. The Breva/Griso and later big blocks all use the CARC reactive drive which is 'Fully enclosed' within a box on the rear of teh swingarm and the shaft once agin works within that swingarm rather than being exposed to the elements. It also has the advantage of using a 'One Piece' driveshaft which prevents morons from misaligning the trunnions of the shaft and busting their gear and bevelboxes.

In the past most people believed the crap written about Guzzis by so-called journalists and while people would "Oooh!" and "Ahhhh!" about them they were often seen as a bit weird, unreliable and oddball, something I find laughable as in the couple of million miles I've ridden them, (My first big block was within cooee of a million miles when I finally wrecked it out!) I've NEVER failed to get home due to a mechanical failure. You really can't kill 'em with a shitty stick and they are a VERY simple machine. Since the Piaggio buy out the companty seem to have bought enough advertizing in the press to glean some decent reviews although old habits die hard and you'll still read a lot of ignorant bollox talked about the marque. At the end of the day though the last of the two-valvers are solid, robust, reliable machines. If they do have a fault in my book it is that they, especially the Breva 11, have become slightly TOO anodyne and characterless! While I loved my Griso 1100, (Which shares the same motive unit as the B11 but with slightly lower gearing.) it seemed a bit bland compared to what I was used to. Luckily that has changed with the G12 which has shown what for me is a pleasant return to the slightly uncivilised 'Biggus Dickus' feel of earlier 'Sporting' Guzzis. My Mate Jon in LA had a B11 he picked up very cheap as a companion machine to his G11 thinking it would be a better tourer for him and the missus. In the end the wonderful Brenda decided she preffered the G11 and the B11 was sold, without regret, as Jon reckoned it felt a bit too much like a Japanese bike for his liking. If you are after a really capable 'All Rounder' though one of the big 'B's is hard to beat.

Servicing is cheap and easy BUT it should be remembered that thare are not many people who care about Guzzi so where you purchase from or take the bike to for service IS important. Commonest thing I find with the new bikes is that they NEVER get the diagnostic tooling plugged into them. All the 2 valve per cylinder models for some reason come from the factory with their TPS's set wrong. I have no idea why but it is so. Correcting this requires re-setting it electronically using Navigator, VDSTS, Axone or equivalent and takes less than five minutes. When I was in the US last June I uploaded maps and checked this sort of stuff on LOTS of machines and many of them had NEVER had their TPS checked and re-set and were in some cases running map itterations that had had three or four updates since the bike was sold and none of them had been uploaded. It is my belief that many 'Technicians' at shops are afraid to plug in the diagnostic devices because they are terrified that if they press the wrong button they'll damage something, wipe the map or otherwise cost themselves thousands of dollars! Apart from the fact this won't happen before the tool will wipe the ECU it goes off like the robot in 'Lost in Space' 'Warning! Warning! Do you really want to do this? Do you REALLY REALLY want to do this?" etc. Yes, if you wipe the map and then unplug the tool before the new map is loaded it might be a problem. Send me an ECU and I'll try it for you! I'll be buggered if I'm going to experiment with my or my customers bikes though!!!!!

Don't allow the nay sayers to put you off. A modern Guzzi is every bit as dependable as any other machine on the market, they just march to the beat of a slightly different drum. Don't fancy that? Fine, buy a bloody V-strom and stick with the unimaginative herd, it's not a crime to be a boring turd, (Although I often think it should be a capital offence!). In the case of the original poster though since you're a fat bastard like me I'd suggest that the B11 would be a far superior choice to the B75. At the end of the day the 11 is a much, MUCH better motorbike, even if it is as ugly as a bucket full of bashed crabs!

Pete

PS. the engine is NOT canted forward, backwards or sideways.

[flip]

Pete...wow. After all of that, you have the voices in my head arguing. Of the 2 loudest, one is asking "why would we want one of these pos?" and the other is yelling "we're not worthy!"

My head hurts! For now, I'll just say that I like the red color.   But, the silver looks nice!