New Blackbird

[Giaka]

Imagine if Honda were to build something that more than 10 people wanted? Would this be it?

[Slartibartfast]

Hell yes. Too bad everyone but Honda seems to realize it.

[atadaskew]

Why, what's wrong with the VFR12?

[Giaka]

Why, what's wrong with the VFR12?

Gas tank to small, cost to much, shaft drive, too heavy, bad ergos, ........................  

[scottzilla]

Honda tried to sell the Blackbird for 5 yrs.  Nobody bought it.

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[Slartibartfast]

Honda tried to sell the Blackbird for 5 yrs.  Nobody bought it.

Because Honda quit marketing it to make room for that gawdawful VFR12 that does nothing as well.

[Giaka]

Just wanted to test tapatalk...

[Silverbird]

Dare to dream

[Mr.Black]

I thought all the blackbirds were dying?

[birdrunner]

Honda tried to sell the Blackbird for 5 yrs.  Nobody bought it.

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Actually it was only in N.America that the sales stopped COLD.  

It was actually outselling the 'Busa for a while elsewhere,  but a 10 yr old design can't win a marketing/fashion war no matter how good it is.

[scottzilla]

Actually it was only in N.America that the sales stopped COLD. 

It was actually outselling the 'Busa for a while elsewhere,  but a 10 yr old design can't win a marketing/fashion war no matter how good it is.

Agreed the xx sold better in more sensible markets. 

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[scottzilla]

Because Honda quit marketing it to make room for that gawdawful VFR12 that does nothing as well.

That's not an accurate timeline of how it really went down.  Lol

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[mxvet57]

I thought all the blackbirds were dying?

In Arkansas that is.

[mxvet57]

Who would of thought this would of turned into a Honda bashing thread.

[Slartibartfast]

That's not an accurate timeline of how it really went down.  Lol

Perhaps not, but how long did they spend developing the current abomination while the XX (which really is still superior in some aspects) atrophied? Had they put half the effort into the bird that they put into the 1200 they may have produced something that more than 34 people were interested in buying.

[county]

Only the manliest of men bought Blackbirds....most of you people couldn't handle one.  Stick with your FJR's...know your limits.

[mxvet57]

Only the manliest of men bought Blackbirds....most of you people couldn't handle one.  Stick with your FJR's...know your limits.

But i bet you ride the rebel more.

[Orson]

I'm one of the prime Honda bashers but, this VFR1200 bashing seems a bit out of proportion  

Didn't someone recently post that they paid $13,200 for theirs?

[atadaskew]

I'm one of the prime Honda bashers but, this VFR1200 bashing seems a bit out of proportion  

Didn't someone recently post that they paid $13,200 for theirs?

Indeed but they had to pay $2K for the 3M paint protection film.  Apparently the stock super shiny paint has the resilience of flannel pjs

[zer0netgain]

Honda tried to sell the Blackbird for 5 yrs.  Nobody bought it.

Only because the XX was made in a time where the three big names were trying to win the "fastest street bike" award.  XX held that for a year or so, right?  Then the 'Busa took the prize, and once you hit 200....the goal is fairly moot.  

Rather than transition the great ideas put into the XX into the VFR (slap on a shaft drive and better seating/attachments for luggage and you get a very effective and low-maintenance sport touring bike), they had two different ideas...one which was total FUBAR with chronic problems from one model year to the next and the other which was rock-solid but ultimately discontinued because it's target market was limited and going to competitors.

The XX existed purely to try and win the "fastest bike" contest.  Never mind that it was great for most any application...Honda saw that they lost the race (or saw no point in marketing something faster than the 'Busa) and gave up on one of their best designs rather than repurpose it for a different existing market.

The only reason I really will not buy another XX is because with it being discontinued I know replacement/repair parts will become near impossible to find and my only option is to hope to find one of the few still out there that have never been uncrated.  Otherwise, it's been the absolute best bike I've ever owned with fewer problems than I hear from most everyone else who rides.

[Hardware]

Gas tank to small, cost to much, shaft drive, too heavy, bad ergos, Uglier than a smacked pudding........................  

FTFY!

[cuoco1200gt]

Ok all vfr1200f haters please keep hating . I own a vfr1200f  and like the fact that there are only a few on the road. In the last 10 years I have owned way too many bikes mostly sport tourers ,throw in a few a adventure bikes ,couple of fulll blown tour bikes ,and of several full on sport bikes, liters and 600's . The bikes that I have owned were and are from multiple manufacturers BMW,HONDA ,TRIUMPH,DUCATI,and Yamaha. I am not boasting or proud of how many bikes I have owned. I also log around 7-10k a year in miles . I also average 10 track days a season. I am not an expert . I am just a whore for the high you get off of riding motorcycles. If you wish to believe the BS printed in the publications about the vfr 1200f that is your choice . I can tell you after the first 1k ( lots of snow here in the northeast) THE VFR 1200F IS A VERY GOOD MOTORCYCLE!! Is it perfect no . Is there a such a thing as a perfect motorcycle NO . Blah Blah Blah this bike that bike those of us with enough seat time know this to be true about bikes. Good luck with your patience in waiting for mother Honda to produce another blackbird and I applaud your conviction for a model you love.

So remember guys the VFR1200F IS A CRAPPY MOTORCYCLE DONT BUY ONE.

[STJoe]

THE VFR 1200F IS A VERY GOOD MOTORCYCLE!!

Funny, that's what I keep hearing from people who actually have ridden one.  

But if you spent a lot of time pushing your bike from one side of the garage to the other, instead of firing it up and actually riding it, you would agree with many of our posers, I'm sorry I meant posters, it's way to heavy.

[Slartibartfast]

So remember guys the VFR1200F IS A CRAPPY MOTORCYCLE DONT BUY ONE.

I'm so glad we can all agree on something.

[blackbuell]

The XX existed purely to try and win the "fastest bike" contest.  Never mind that it was great for most any application...Honda saw that they lost the race (or saw no point in marketing something faster than the 'Busa) and gave up on one of their best designs rather than repurpose it for a different existing market

True. By accident Honda created a wonderful GT machine, a high-speed SPORT-tourer. I, and several other XX owners that I have known, used the bike for riding long distances to popular MC destinations and then using it as a sport bike (albeit a bit of a porky one) after arriving there. An equivalent competitor was the ZZR1200. These GT bikes overlapped too much with the modern mega-sport-tourers like the FJR and the C14, which are just as fast, but much more comfortable to ride.

As wonderful as the XX is...an updated version would probably not sell; does it really have a niche? XX owners, such as County, Birdrunner, and BunBun are understandably strong advocates for this bike, but how many prospective buyers would consider an XX over a more purpose-built sport-tourer or a lighter, quicker, liter-sized sport machine?

If I had more $ and a larger garage, I would buy an "old" XX, just to have an example of one of the best bikes ever made.

Jon

[Slartibartfast]

As wonderful as the XX is...an updated version would probably not sell;

Tell that to BMW. As far as I'm concerned, the K13S is awfully close to what an updated XX would have been.

[scottzilla]

True. By accident Honda created a wonderful GT machine, a high-speed SPORT-tourer. I, and several other XX owners that I have known, used the bike for riding long distances to popular MC destinations and then using it as a sport bike (albeit a bit of a porky one) after arriving there. An equivalent competitor was the ZZR1200. These GT bikes overlapped too much with the modern mega-sport-tourers like the FJR and the C14, which are just as fast, but much more comfortable to ride.

As wonderful as the XX is...an updated version would probably not sell; does it really have a niche? XX owners, such as County, Birdrunner, and BunBun are understandably strong advocates for this bike, but how many prospective buyers would consider an XX over a more purpose-built sport-tourer or a lighter, quicker, liter-sized sport machine?

If I had more $ and a larger garage, I would buy an "old" XX, just to have an example of one of the best bikes ever made.

Jon

County??  He's rather late to the party. Lol. I've been a blackbird owner since 1999.

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[Justin]

I already got my new Blackbird - it's made by Suzuki - sorry Honda I waited

[Jmac_bandit]

 THE VFR 1200F IS A VERY GOOD MOTORCYCLE!!

VFR1200F IS A CRAPPY MOTORCYCLE DONT BUY ONE.

Your yelling contradicts itself.

[county]

County??  He's rather late to the party. Lol. I've been a blackbird owner since 1999.

Well, I returned to riding in early 2003 with the CS....joined this forum and in 2004 bought the Blackbird after learning about the bike on this forum, I suppose that is late; but, better late than never.

I suppose the XX is a niche bike.....but it is sooo fast and sooo smooth and handles sooo well.  And it doesn't have hard bags and electrically adjustable windscreen....rather it lets you know you are on a bike.

[Mastros2]

I suppose the XX is a niche bike.....but it is sooo fast and sooo smooth and handles sooo well.  And it doesn't have hard bags and electrically adjustable windscreen....rather it lets you know you are on a bike.

Good points.

[dragonram7]

I already got my new Blackbird - it's made by Suzuki - sorry Honda I waited

In all honesty, I've ridden the Blackbird and I liked it.  I've owned the 2007 Suzuki Hayabusa and loved it.  I sold it for an opportunity to own the MV F4.  I actually miss the Hayabusa to date.  Great at everything on the road (sport touring, canyons, dual riding).  I'd love to try the VFR12 but Honda's not big on test riding.  Current ride BMW S1000rr.

[Silverbird]

The XX a niche bike?  

They need extensive mods to tour comfortably on but once set up...it is a do anything streetbike.

[Dan K]

I already got my new Blackbird - it's made by Suzuki - sorry Honda I waited

Tempting to pick up a busa and equip like that.  Looks like everything you want with more power than you need.  I loved my short time on a Busa, absolutely, money no object, would have a K1300S in the garage (love it) and would probably love the Blackbird and a ZX-14.  Maybe I need to think about a switcheroo, although I am really loving my Sprint, and the Daytona is a must for track days...

- Dan

[zer0netgain]

As wonderful as the XX is...an updated version would probably not sell; does it really have a niche? XX owners, such as County, Birdrunner, and BunBun are understandably strong advocates for this bike, but how many prospective buyers would consider an XX over a more purpose-built sport-tourer or a lighter, quicker, liter-sized sport machine?

Well, what makes the XX inferior to the VFR (which Honda deemed worthy to keep selling)?

1.  Weight?  Well, the XX didn't undergo major "improvement" from first production to termination.  I think we could remake the XX just as it is now and strip a nice chunk of weight of with newer materials that are lighter but just as strong.

2.  Handling?  The XX has no deficiency except that the front and rear suspension is fixed at the factory.  Adjustable shocks/forks would be an improvement.

3.  Posture?  Lower the rider pegs a notch, use the higher VFR clip ons for a start.  That's what a lot of XX owners do.  The bike's ergonomics ARE NOT bad.  It might look uncomfortable, but the only time my XX is a pain to ride is if I'm stuck in under 35 mph traffic.  It's not a bike designed to handle well at a crawl, but once you pass 40, you hardly have to try to steer it.

4.  Comfort?  Most all bikers who do a lot of riding get aftermarket seats.  Don't know of any stock seat people love.  

5.  Luggage?  Givi makes a kit for their hard luggage.  Frankly WOULD NOT want a bike with OEM luggage.  Never enough space and no options.  XX has good mount points for hard luggage already.

6.  Honda could add a power port or two, they could modify the upper cowl with an adjustable windscreen, and, as I pointed out, if the XX had a shaft drive, it would be nearly zero maintenance for thousands of miles at a time.  The motor and gearbox is practically bulletproof.  The CCT was it's biggest weakness (other than perhaps the R/R), and that's an easy to do replacement once you hear it starting to go.

Again, Honda should have carried the XX's design, motor, etc. onto the VFR platform rather than regularly reinvent the VFR.  I know several who are happy with the VFR, but I also know enough VFR owners who curse the problems that seemed to plague one model year or another.  Buy any year XX and you will have only 1 of 3 possible issues to worry about (4 if you count the tool pouch strap breaking   )....CCT wears out regularly (50-60K), R/R can go without much warning (easy to detect if you install a voltmeter, easy to replace for under $150), and the wire loom has a factory inspection port that can short out (often happens to those who store the bike outside) and if that happens there's a fix to eliminate that problem.  The XX doesn't have year-specific problems that make you say, "Don't buy a 2002 XX."  Any model year is a good one (unless you prefer carbs vs. FI).

How many bikes can claim that?

[Spence]

   I also owned a blackbird for awhile and liked it. I have put 26000 miles on my 07 zx14 now. The zx14 is everything the blackbird was, just more.

[Orson]

and sooo smooth...

since when is smooth considered a good trait?  

smooth is for when you want sumthin to hum quietly in the background like kitchen appliances.

You never saw Giacomo Agostini pull into the pits at the Nurburgring and tell the mechanics that "the bike needs to be smoother"  

 

[Squareman357]

   I also owned a blackbird for awhile and liked it. I have put 26000 miles on my 07 zx14 now. The zx14 is everything the blackbird was, just more.

What he said.  I don't understand the extreme loyalty to the XX I see from some.  There's a guy on one of my old XX boards trying to sell his '03 for $7500.  I mean come on.  It's already 8 years old, and seeing as though nothing really changed on the bike from 2000 on, it's 11+ year old tech.  You can get newer, better used bikes for less than that, not to mention it's got a custom paint job which for me automatically lowers the value even more.  I too thought the XX was a great bike.  WAS.  When they didn't do anything with it, I got the ZX-14 and like Spence said, it's everything the XX was and more.

[birdrunner]

Perhaps not, but how long did they spend developing the current abomination while the XX (which really is still superior in some aspects) atrophied? Had they put half the effort into the bird that they put into the 1200 they may have produced something that more than 34 people were interested in buying.

Talked to my mechanic at the Honda shop,  asked him if I should trade in my XX.

"WHY WOULD YOU?"

He said that with the aftermarket suspension, my xx would out perform the VFR everyway,  and even at 50,000 miles probably outlast it.     He REALLY likes the 'Bird.

Honda could have saved themselve a ton of money if they'd just bored the XX out.    Shave a little weight,  add a couple HP,  better suspenders,  VOILA.

Or they could have just bored out a VFR to 1000 cc.    Or they could fire those idiot marketing gurus.  (Although from the last 6 months offerings, they seem to be improving.)

[birdrunner]

  I too thought the XX was a great bike.  WAS.  When they didn't do anything with it, I got the ZX-14 and like Spence said, it's everything the XX was and more.

No body's arguing that,  and in 100,000 miles I may even agree with you.

[desertxxrider]

There's still Magazines that write articles on the XX and have stated it's been among the most reliable ever tested long term. Other than the Reg/Rec with no cooling fins it's a trouble free design, I'd ride mine any distance at any speed without any thought of breakdowns or even having to check the oil level. I did install a New OEM R1 RR ($65) at 37K rather than wait to see when the original would fail, that's all that's ever been done other than normal service. I think Honda would be different if Sochiro was still alive. Some updating and a Turbocharger would have been enough to keep XX sales going...the Kawasaki 750 Turbo was a fun bike and fast. After I rode a Hayabusa Turbo I know a XX Turbo would work for me. Anything Turbocharged brings a new level of excitement... as long as it's a company with Turbocharging experience. I was hoping to replace my XX with the Suzuki Stratosphere but it seems production is delayed or cancelled.

[skater69]

What he said.  I don't understand the extreme loyalty to the XX I see from some.  There's a guy on one of my old XX boards trying to sell his '03 for $7500.  I mean come on.  It's already 8 years old, and seeing as though nothing really changed on the bike from 2000 on, it's 11+ year old tech.  You can get newer, better used bikes for less than that, not to mention it's got a custom paint job which for me automatically lowers the value even more.  I too thought the XX was a great bike.  WAS.  When they didn't do anything with it, I got the ZX-14 and like Spence said, it's everything the XX was and more.

I've ridden a couple ZX-14s....and they felt like wannabe XX's.  Power delivery not nearly as linear, engine not as refined.  It was a good bike but once I got off and back on the XX, I felt like I just got off a cheap bike and back on an expensive one.  The XX may not be as fast (I can't really tell honestly) but it feels better going fast.

With that said.....for sport-TOURING,  I wouldn't pick either one.

[Squareman357]

I've ridden a couple ZX-14s....and they felt like wannabe XX's.  Power delivery not nearly as linear, engine not as refined.  It was a good bike but once I got off and back on the XX, I felt like I just got off a cheap bike and back on an expensive one.  The XX may not be as fast (I can't really tell honestly) but it feels better going fast.

With that said.....for sport-TOURING,  I wouldn't pick either one.

LOL you'd be the first I knew of.  I owned them both for nearly a year.  After riding the ZX, the XX felt slow, ungainly, top heavy, and not nearly as agile.  Engine feels just as refined, clutch and trans even moreso.  I sold the XX when I realized it was never getting ridden because it just didn't feel as good.  But, if your '98 XX feels that good to you, keep riding it.

[skater69]

LOL you'd be the first I knew of.  I owned them both for nearly a year.  After riding the ZX, the XX felt slow, ungainly, top heavy, and not nearly as agile.  Engine feels just as refined, clutch and trans even moreso.  I sold the XX when I realized it was never getting ridden because it just didn't feel as good.  But, if your '98 XX feels that good to you, keep riding it.

I've read plenty on the XX board feel that felt the same way.  XX slow?  If low 10's in the 1/4 mi and sub 3 0-60 is "slow"......than I'm happy going slow.
Maybe b/c the ZX I rode had the flies in ('08).....but power came in one big surge......nothing and then BAM!  Felt primitive to the silky linear delivery of the XX.  Not to mention you sit ON TOP of the ZX but IN the XX.....much preferred by me.

[Squareman357]

I've read plenty on the XX board feel that felt the same way.  XX slow?  If low 10's in the 1/4 mi and sub 3 0-60 is "slow"......than I'm happy going slow.
Maybe b/c the ZX I rode had the flies in ('08).....but power came in one big surge......nothing and then BAM!  Felt primitive to the silky linear delivery of the XX.  Not to mention you sit ON TOP of the ZX but IN the XX.....much preferred by me.

LOL yeah...a lot of folks on the XX board are a bit delusional about the XX too,  or maybe fanatical to the extreme is a better term.  Sure it was a great bike for it's time, and still a decent used purchase, but there are better.  Yes, with the flies in, the '06 and '07 were that way, not the '08 and up due to revised ECus.  Flies out, the XX can't touch the silky linear monster power delivery of the big Zed.  And yes, slow.  The ZX can put down 9's stock and also has a sub 3 second 0-60 time, if you want to talk bench racing stats LOL!  And no, you sit ON the XX and IN the ZX, at least that's how it feels to me.  The ZX is so much better balanced than the XX, carries it's weight (which is lighter than the XX) lower and handles much better.  The XX in comparison feels sluggish handling, and top heavy.  Nothing wrong with loving your bike bro, but LOTS of people have moved from the XX to Hayabusa's or ZX-14's and couldn't be happier. Gotta be a reason for that.  If Honda want's to bring the big bird back, they better go back to the drawing board and pay attention to the current kings of the GT mountain, the ZX-14, Hayabusa, and K1300S, 'cause slapping a fresh set of bodywork on that dated platform isn't going to win any new buyers or accolades...

[Slartibartfast]

  How many other 16+ year old designs are people still comparing current models to? Talk all the smack you want about the old bird, it's bang for buck factor is higher than most any other GT bike.

[atadaskew]

  How many other 16+ year old designs are people still comparing current models to? Talk all the smack you want about the old bird, it's bang for buck factor is higher than most any other GT bike.

To be fair, the only ones comparing are those who own those 16 year old designs...

[Squareman357]

To be fair, the only ones comparing are those who own those 16 year old designs...

LOL!  Yeah...what he said...  

[skater69]

LOL!  Yeah...what he said...  

I barely see any XX's on the road...but I see a few.  But I see barely any ZX-14s either and new Busas are also very rare.  The Busa is still a vibrator like the old one from everything I've read...new chassis or not.  The ZX-14 I rode was an '08 w/flies and exhaust.  I wish I wasn't more impressed but I wasn't....numbers aren't everything.....high 9's vs low 10's in the 1/4 mi....means little to me when you're talking that kind of speed.  Put a $1500 into an XX suspension and then it all depends on the rider.  The 14 and Busa are NEWER.....that's for sure.....whatever that means.

[Squareman357]

Put a $1500 into an XX suspension and then it all depends on the rider.  The 14 and Busa are NEWER.....that's for sure.....whatever that means.

This is the part that always gets me.  If you talk apples to apples, the ZX is better.  If you invest $1500 in the XX and I invest $1500 into the ZX, the ZX is better.  Period.  And in this case, for the ZX and the Busa, newer means better suspension, lighter materials, better brakes, better headlights, etc.  Like I said, I owned a 2002 XX.  At the time it was one of the best bikes on the road.  But after a year in the garage with the ZX, it languished.  It just wasn't as good in so many areas that I never rode it, it just sat until I finally sold it. It's still a great bike and a decent used purchase, but it doesn't deserve the rabid devotion it seems to attract.  There are better bikes now.  Could Honda revive it and catapult it back to the top of the heap?  Sure.  Would I buy a new 2012 XX?  Sure, as long as its an improvement over what I have now.  But it'll take more than revised bodywork around the same engine and transmission to make that happen, that's for sure.

[Spence]

I barely see any XX's on the road...but I see a few.  But I see barely any ZX-14s either and new Busas are also very rare.  The Busa is still a vibrator like the old one from everything I've read...new chassis or not.  The ZX-14 I rode was an '08 w/flies and exhaust.  I wish I wasn't more impressed but I wasn't....numbers aren't everything.....high 9's vs low 10's in the 1/4 mi....means little to me when you're talking that kind of speed.  Put a $1500 into an XX suspension and then it all depends on the rider.  The 14 and Busa are NEWER.....that's for sure.....whatever that means.

   I will have to agree on one thing my 07 zx14 , first ride home only using low rpm for break in, very underwhelming. Flies out power commander and brock exhaust, differant animal. It just does everything better then my XX and I liked my XX.

[Squareman357]

I will have to agree on one thing my 07 zx14 , first ride home only using low rpm for break in, very underwhelming. Flies out power commander and brock exhaust, differant animal. It just does everything better then my XX and I liked my XX.

Everyone I know that bought a ZX-14 after their XX says pretty much the same thing.  No one misses their XX.  And I liked my XX a lot too.  I'm not dissing it, it was a great bike.  But its unchanged engine wise since 1999 when they went to FI, so that's 12 years, and the rest of the bike hasn't changed since it's inception in 97, so that's 14 years in release time, and probably 2 years of development time, meaning a 16 year old design.  Dated and well past it's prime.

[birdrunner]

This is the part that always gets me.  If you talk apples to apples, the ZX is better.  If you invest $1500 in the XX and I invest $1500 into the ZX, the ZX is better.  Period.  And in this case, for the ZX and the Busa, newer means better suspension, lighter materials, better brakes, better headlights, etc.  Like I said, I owned a 2002 XX.  At the time it was one of the best bikes on the road.  But after a year in the garage with the ZX, it languished.  It just wasn't as good in so many areas that I never rode it, it just sat until I finally sold it. It's still a great bike and a decent used purchase, but it doesn't deserve the rabid devotion it seems to attract.  There are better bikes now.  Could Honda revive it and catapult it back to the top of the heap?  Sure.  Would I buy a new 2012 XX?  Sure, as long as its an improvement over what I have now.  But it'll take more than revised bodywork around the same engine and transmission to make that happen, that's for sure.

Don't think anyone really can argue with that.   I'd take a NEW ZX over a 10 yr old XX anyday.

BUT  if Honda would work some of their magic in the handling dept, and add a few more ponies,  I'd be in the line up.

(Don't use the VFR design by committee thing, rather put the CBR1000 team on it.)

[Slartibartfast]

To be fair, the only ones comparing are those who own those 16 year old designs...

Erm, I don't recall the thread title saying anything about the 14, but it seems to be a 14 owner, not a Blackbird owner who began the comparisons.  Just sayin'.

[Squareman357]

Erm, I don't recall the thread title saying anything about the 14, but it seems to be a 14 owner, not a Blackbird owner who began the comparisons.  Just sayin'.

LOL try again sir.  The Hayabusa owning former XX owner posted his opinion about a new XX first.  THEN I posted mine.  

[Slartibartfast]

LOL try again sir.  The Hayabusa owning former XX owner posted his opinion about a new XX first.  THEN I posted mine.  

Oh yeah? Well my dad's tougher than your dad.  

The validity of my argument is not diminished by the fact that I pointed in the (slightly) wrong direction. We're not comparing the XX to the Busa or the 14, we're discussing a New Blackbird which, as I stated earlier, is currently being produced by BMW because Honda not only dropped the ball, they completely lost sight of it and tripped on their collective dicks.

[Squareman357]

Oh yeah? Well my dad's tougher than your dad.  

The validity of my argument is not diminished by the fact that I pointed in the (slightly) wrong direction. We're not comparing the XX to the Busa or the 14, we're discussing a New Blackbird which, as I stated earlier, is currently being produced by BMW because Honda not only dropped the ball, they completely lost sight of it and tripped on their collective dicks.

LOL actually I just went and re-read, and I was third behind a Hayabusa owner and another ZX-14 owner...

So it's ok to compare the new/old XX to the K1300S, but not to the other stablemates in the GT arena, the ZX-14 and the Hayabusa?  Honestly, I don't think you can HAVE a discussion about a new Blackbird without including those 3 in the mix, because they are the competition.  Anything Honda comes up with in that arena will be compared to those 3.  Not only is the "new Blackbird" being made by BMW, it's also being made by Kawasaki and Suzuki.  Many of the owners of XX's that have moved on after an interminable wait for Honda to give them something new are now riding one of those 3 bikes, so what else did you think would happen when discussion of a new XX emerged?  Hell the damn mock up picture on the first page is using a ZX-14 front fender!

I think our comparisons are definitely on subject.

[Squareman357]

  How many other 16+ year old designs are people still comparing current models to? Talk all the smack you want about the old bird, it's bang for buck factor is higher than most any other GT bike.

VFRs...  

[Slartibartfast]

LOL actually I just went and re-read, and I was third behind a Hayabusa owner and another ZX-14 owner...

So it's ok to compare the new/old XX to the K1300S, ...etcetera

No man, you're missing what I'm saying. Or, more likely, I'm not making my point very well. I am NOT comparing the XX to the K13, I'm saying the K1300S is what the XX would have been if H had cared to build a new version of the XX. If you want to compare THAT to the ZX and the Bus then go right ahead as apples are then apples. To compare your $12k apple to my $5k orange is pointless.

[Squareman357]

No man, you're missing what I'm saying. Or, more likely, I'm not making my point very well. I am NOT comparing the XX to the K13, I'm saying the K1300S is what the XX would have been if H had cared to build a new version of the XX. If you want to compare THAT to the ZX and the Bus then go right ahead as apples are then apples. To compare your $12k apple to my $5k orange is pointless.

I guess that's where the wires crossed.  Neither myself or the other two folks were comparing the old XX to the newer bikes.  We all stated, in some form or fashion, that we thought the ZX and the Hayabusa were what the XX should have become, that we waited for a new XX and when it didn't arrive we bought the bikes we did because we thought they were the evolution of the XX, mad smooth power, comfort, lighter, etc., in a more modern package with more modern suspensions, brakes, lighting etc.  Now when that happens, inevitably, someone who still rides a '98 XX with 50,000 miles on it will come back with "The XX is still better than either of those.  I rode one once and got back on my XX and it was this that and the other..." and that's where the comparisons start happening.  I don't compare the ZX to the XX.  Or the Hayabusa to the XX.  I had both in my garage for over a year and rode them both, sometimes back to back if I was doing maintenance, so I know there is no comparison.  I think that both of those new bikes are far and away better than the OLD XX in every category.

Now, where the comparisons will start is this question: What do the ZX-14, Hayabusa, and the K1300S have that the current XX does not?  What, of those things, do you want to see them bring to a NEW CBR1300XX?  Adjustable fully adjustable front and rear suspension, more power, more torque, slightly updated and modernized plastics, etc. What things do you NOT want to see? Some say shaft drive, or power windscreens, etc.  THOSE are the kinds of things I am comparing.  If Honda comes out with a CBR1300XX in 2012 0r 2013, it will certainly be on my radar.  They DO make good motorcycles, they just HAVEN'T with the XX.  Yet anyway. I'm also looking into that new VFR.  I'm hearing good things from the few folks that have them.

[Slartibartfast]

...I think that both of those new bikes are far and away better than the OLD XX in every category.

Agreed, they are better, and rightly so. The question I ask is: how much better? I have no trouble keeping up with those bikes on my lightly modded XX and my total investment is less than half of theirs. I can't justify the extra outlay for such little overall gain. Does that mean I wouldn't be at the front of the line if a 13 or 14 hundred cc Blackbird hit the market? Not at all. I would probably leave my wife, primed and ready in bed, to put my deposit down.    I don't want to start a(nother) flame war as this is just my own personal opinion, but I simply can't make myself like the aesthetics of either the Hayabusa or the ZX-14, so unless the difference is enough to blow my mind the way the Blackbird did when I stepped to it from my old CB750F (which I don't think it is), there is no incentive for me to upgrade.

Ah crap. Did I just babble on comparing the Blackbird to the ZX and Hayabusa?   Okay, go ahead an insert the bitchslap icon in your reply.

What would I like to see in a NEW 1300XX? Everything the 1100 has plus:
 
- Updated suspension, fully adjustable, preferably from riding position.
- High output reliable charging system with some cockpit mounted power points for heated gear and accessories.
- A decent seat.
- Electronic speed control
- Hard points for factory panniers and maybe a small aux fuel tank, since I'm dreaming anyway.
- 25 more horses and 10 - 12 lbs more torque.
- How about a gyro-stabilized HID main beam, a nasty, retina-frying high beam, and LED running lights?
- Rear hugger.

Lightly freshen up the aesthetics, keep the LBS and add ABS as an option.

[ndivita]

Only the manliest of men bought Blackbirds....most of you people couldn't handle one.  Stick with your FJR's...know your limits.

Or. as I do, you can own the FJR and the Blackbird.  I've had the FJR since 2005, bought a 2001 Blackbird in 2008 and sold her in 2009.  I then realized how much that bike spoke to me, and I just bought an '03 Blackbird with all of 3173 miles on it.  I love both bikes.  No disrespect to the ST1300 or Concours or BMW crowd, but these two machines do it for me....

With the engineering on modern motorcycles, newer is not necessarily better.  It is, however, necessarily more expensive.  

[Will_Munny]

I read somewhere that Honda got pretty far in developing a Blackbird replacement but it wasn't deemed a worthy successor and they killed the project.

[Rodan]

Agreed, they are better, and rightly so. The question I ask is: how much better? I have no trouble keeping up with those bikes on my lightly modded XX and my total investment is less than half of theirs. I can't justify the extra outlay for such little overall gain.

IMHO, this argument is losing steam as both 'Busas and ZX's are becoming available in the used market at pretty reasonable prices; and meanwhile the XX's are getting older.  Who can get down the road faster is 95% rider anyway, so for me it's about whether the bike delivers what I'm expecting for the price I pay.

BTW, even if Honda does come out with a "new" XX, they'll screw it up somehow...  

[Hoss350]

I agree with the above poster,  I can't see spending sick money on something that's a little better!! I like the fact that there isn't alot of birds around.  Not to mention I paid 3000 for mine It's still stinkin fast and handles just about good enough for me without launching my butt over the edge!  Not to mention everyone and their mother has a busa or a zx14.  I'll stick with my Birdy.  

Hoss