Guzzi 2012 models leaked: V7 Scrambler and new 1400cc California

[Rincewind]

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/2012-moto-guzzis-leaked/16957.html

[kendenton]

Water-cooled?  Let's hope not.

[Rincewind]

Water-cooled?  Let's hope not.

It's a bad cell-phone pic, but as the article suggests - it does look like the shadow of a radiator on the new CA model engine.  I'd think this would be better, as in more power.  

[tigertim955]

Oh no!! All the unnecessary wieght and complexity! All those die-hard Tonti( ) guys who've never bought a new bike will never buy one of these! Well Ducati and bmw survived the liquid transition,maybe Moto Guzzi can as well.

[Rincewind]

Better pics to be found at Motoblog.IT.  

Sure looks like a radiator to me.

[Pete Roper]

Could simply be a very large oil cooler. The 4VPC Norge uses a large radiator with thermofans for cooling the oil. I wouldn't of expected that to be so vital on a model like the Cali with exposed cylinders but the 4V heads are riddled with oil galleries for cooling purposes and the oil does get VERY hot, hence the need for a top quality full ester oil.

Pete

[nevinfs327]

The latest issue of Motorcyclist says Guzzi is developing a water-cooled engine to debut in 2013 for models including a new Le Mans sportbike.  It's a short news piece on page 20.  

[Fourstring]

How soon before the jugs stick out above the handlebars?

[Biking Sailor]

Looks like oil cooler to me, and the jugs still have cooling fins.  I don't see what I expect throttle bodies to look like behind the jugs, so I wonder if this is an actual working prototype?  Doesn't seem so.

I had a chance to get a '99 Bassa real cheap, and that bike had a little pull from a mile eater standpoint, but I didn't pursue it.  It had more standard riding/foot peg position and bags, which is what I would want.  This bike with the more forward controls is a turn off for me.  

I really want to just keep looking at the V7 Racer!  

[Rabidsnipe]

I bet that Scrambler sounds glorious with the Arrow pipes.

[MisterSmooth]

I bet that Scrambler sounds glorious with the Arrow pipes.

Yeah, I'd like to see a better picture of it.  Looks choice in that tiny cellphone pic, but it's hard to really see what they're up to.

[Rabidsnipe]

Yeah, I'd like to see a better picture of it.  Looks choice in that tiny cellphone pic, but it's hard to really see what they're up to.

Ask and you shall receive.

[crispiegee1]

That California is strange looking. Why can't they get a tank with a nice shape on that thing - reminiscent of the Eldorado, perhaps? (Yes, I'm biased.)

And why do the jugs cut into the tank? Seems weird.

And lastly, Guzzi always goofs up the back of their bikes. The rear fender should go down further and have some kind of lip to it. That thing is cheap looking.

[1KPerDay]

The CA's not a bad looking ride, IMO. Much better than all previous CAs.

[crispiegee1]

The CA's not a bad looking ride, IMO. Much better than all previous CAs.

That much, I agree with.

And I don't mean to sound like I hate it. The tank is a huge improvement over the bulbous blob that the other Californias had.

(Heck, maybe they could make a police bike out of this one. That would be very cool!)

[bomber]

While the scrambler will likely sound wunnerful, and while I fully acknowledge that most "scramblers" never turned a wheel off pavement, it seems a bit of a reach, to me . . . . .

[mountainmotor]

The internet and March edition of Motorcyclist says 2013, liquid cooled and also a LeMans replacement .

If the LeMans is good , I want one -

[County Tar]

Also here, FWIW:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/01/piaggio-shows-dealers-two-new-moto-guzzi-models/

[Pete Roper]

well at least the responses here haven't been as completely hopeless and negative as they have been on most of the bloody Guzzi boards! FWIW I wrote a response to the whinging on Guzzitech which I'll C&P here. Nothing like having a good spray at whiners .

*********************************************

They can't win a trick!

Everyone moans about how they don't produce enough power, so Noale finally invests the money to design an effectively all new angine that in 1200 cc form will profuce above the magic 'Ton' in HP at the rear wheel. What happens? All the moaners decry it is too complex and it isn't fitted to a 'Cruiser' style bike so they would never buy one.

So what do they try and do? They stick it in a bike like a 'Cruiser' AND they hog it out a couple of hundred extra cc's so that all the Numpties with tiny willies can brag about how they have a nearly litre and a half engine. They even leave it with a hideous, inferior, twin-shock rear end to try and please the luddites! And what happens. They moan!

The rocker covers stick into the tank, (Obviously a cosmetic cover up.) It's water cooled, (Maybe, more likely just a big oil radiator, but water/glycol cooling will have to come eventually to try and shut the bloody thing up!) It doesn't look right! It causes my 'gina to become compacted with sand!!!!

Well bugger me sideways with a prize marrow! Just *exactly* what will it take for some of you blithering old fuquetards to be happy? The brand to disappear so you can twang your suspenders and try and recall the 'Good Old Days' when everything was dirty and unreliable but you could still lynch niggers and be frightened of the big-bad-bogeymen in the Soviet Union????

Jesus wept! Would I want either of these bikes? Shit no! I've never been a fan of 'Cruisers' and I honestly believe that the day that the smallblock is consigned to the dustbin of history can't come soon enough. But fer cryin' out loud! It doesn't seem to matter WHAT the Gnomes of Noale try to do NOBODY will ever be happy. And every time a model is released with a Guzzi badge it is the same bunch of grizzling curmudgeons who pipe up saying "Well? It Just isn't good enough!"

You know what? Sod yers! The fact that 'Guzzi', since the sixties or seventies a 'DeTommaso', 'Brand' has been bought out by first Aprilia and then Piaggio makes not the slightest difference to me. Even where the poxy things are built is really of little consequence as long as it remains in Italy and the people who build them enjoy the benefits of living in a civilized nation with reasonable worker protections.

I want to see the Guzzi badge continue on an Italian built product of some sort. As long as its there the 'Golden Thread' that goes back to the dark days after WWI and covered everything from the rise of fascism and the 'Glory Years' of racing post-war will continue. Maybe not as it has up until now, maybe with different goals and ambitions, but it WILL continue.

The alternative is just to accept that the Guzzi name is dead. Perhaps in a lot of ways that would be for the better. I'd hate to think I had to be associated with such a bunch of miserable, tight-fisted, closed minded whingers.

For what its worth I REALLY like the Noale engine, and the rest of the package that makes up my Griso. It's enormous fun. It's dead reliable and it has style and 'Panache' to die for, even with me on it! For fucks sakes. How's about just cutting Piaggio a little bit of slack once in a while? Do that. Allow the new models to succeed, or not? And we MAY just, eventually, see the MGS-02 that so many of us want to see produced. Shit-canning EVERYTHING is just a really easy way to ensure the curtain comes down on Guzzi.

Pete

[falconati]

I love the new look of the California.  Looks much better than all previous versions.

As far as the Scrambler goes, I think it's a clear rip-off of Triumph's offering.  I'm sure it's great, but I'd probably get the Triumph.

[TBone]

I love the new look of the California.  Looks much better than all previous versions.

Agree.. Not what I'll be buying for my next ride, I think I'll be going for a middleweight naked next, but  I think it looks great. I'm interested to see what they come up with next.

[Chronic]

*********************************************

They can't win a trick!

Everyone moans about how they don't produce enough power, so Noale finally invests the money to design an effectively all new angine that in 1200 cc form will profuce above the magic 'Ton' in HP at the rear wheel. What happens? All the moaners decry it is too complex and it isn't fitted to a 'Cruiser' style bike so they would never buy one.

So what do they try and do? They stick it in a bike like a 'Cruiser' AND they hog it out a couple of hundred extra cc's so that all the Numpties with tiny willies can brag about how they have a nearly litre and a half engine. They even leave it with a hideous, inferior, twin-shock rear end to try and please the luddites! And what happens. They moan!

The rocker covers stick into the tank, (Obviously a cosmetic cover up.) It's water cooled, (Maybe, more likely just a big oil radiator, but water/glycol cooling will have to come eventually to try and shut the bloody thing up!) It doesn't look right! It causes my 'gina to become compacted with sand!!!!

Well bugger me sideways with a prize marrow! Just *exactly* what will it take for some of you blithering old fuquetards to be happy? The brand to disappear so you can twang your suspenders and try and recall the 'Good Old Days' when everything was dirty and unreliable but you could still lynch niggers and be frightened of the big-bad-bogeymen in the Soviet Union????

Jesus wept! Would I want either of these bikes? Shit no! I've never been a fan of 'Cruisers' and I honestly believe that the day that the smallblock is consigned to the dustbin of history can't come soon enough. But fer cryin' out loud! It doesn't seem to matter WHAT the Gnomes of Noale try to do NOBODY will ever be happy. And every time a model is released with a Guzzi badge it is the same bunch of grizzling curmudgeons who pipe up saying "Well? It Just isn't good enough!"

You know what? Sod yers! The fact that 'Guzzi', since the sixties or seventies a 'DeTommaso', 'Brand' has been bought out by first Aprilia and then Piaggio makes not the slightest difference to me. Even where the poxy things are built is really of little consequence as long as it remains in Italy and the people who build them enjoy the benefits of living in a civilized nation with reasonable worker protections.

I want to see the Guzzi badge continue on an Italian built product of some sort. As long as its there the 'Golden Thread' that goes back to the dark days after WWI and covered everything from the rise of fascism and the 'Glory Years' of racing post-war will continue. Maybe not as it has up until now, maybe with different goals and ambitions, but it WILL continue.

The alternative is just to accept that the Guzzi name is dead. Perhaps in a lot of ways that would be for the better. I'd hate to think I had to be associated with such a bunch of miserable, tight-fisted, closed minded whingers.

For what its worth I REALLY like the Noale engine, and the rest of the package that makes up my Griso. It's enormous fun. It's dead reliable and it has style and 'Panache' to die for, even with me on it! For fucks sakes. How's about just cutting Piaggio a little bit of slack once in a while? Do that. Allow the new models to succeed, or not? And we MAY just, eventually, see the MGS-02 that so many of us want to see produced. Shit-canning EVERYTHING is just a really easy way to ensure the curtain comes down on Guzzi.

Pete

[/b]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!    Having been off this forum for awhile, i missed this when it originally dropped.  Good stuff, Pete....spot on.

Griso's ??  Been lusting after one for awhile.   Riding my Scura is like being in a little Rodeo each time and would be nicve to have a solid Guzzi mount ( maybe even get another used Jackal)

[alphabet man]

well at least the responses here haven't been as completely hopeless and negative as they have been on most of the bloody Guzzi boards! FWIW I wrote a response to the whinging on Guzzitech which I'll C&P here. Nothing like having a good spray at whiners .

*********************************************

They can't win a trick!

Everyone moans about how they don't produce enough power, so Noale finally invests the money to design an effectively all new angine that in 1200 cc form will profuce above the magic 'Ton' in HP at the rear wheel. What happens? All the moaners decry it is too complex and it isn't fitted to a 'Cruiser' style bike so they would never buy one.

So what do they try and do? They stick it in a bike like a 'Cruiser' AND they hog it out a couple of hundred extra cc's so that all the Numpties with tiny willies can brag about how they have a nearly litre and a half engine. They even leave it with a hideous, inferior, twin-shock rear end to try and please the luddites! And what happens. They moan!

The rocker covers stick into the tank, (Obviously a cosmetic cover up.) It's water cooled, (Maybe, more likely just a big oil radiator, but water/glycol cooling will have to come eventually to try and shut the bloody thing up!) It doesn't look right! It causes my 'gina to become compacted with sand!!!!

Well bugger me sideways with a prize marrow! Just *exactly* what will it take for some of you blithering old fuquetards to be happy? The brand to disappear so you can twang your suspenders and try and recall the 'Good Old Days' when everything was dirty and unreliable but you could still lynch niggers and be frightened of the big-bad-bogeymen in the Soviet Union????

Jesus wept! Would I want either of these bikes? Shit no! I've never been a fan of 'Cruisers' and I honestly believe that the day that the smallblock is consigned to the dustbin of history can't come soon enough. But fer cryin' out loud! It doesn't seem to matter WHAT the Gnomes of Noale try to do NOBODY will ever be happy. And every time a model is released with a Guzzi badge it is the same bunch of grizzling curmudgeons who pipe up saying "Well? It Just isn't good enough!"

You know what? Sod yers! The fact that 'Guzzi', since the sixties or seventies a 'DeTommaso', 'Brand' has been bought out by first Aprilia and then Piaggio makes not the slightest difference to me. Even where the poxy things are built is really of little consequence as long as it remains in Italy and the people who build them enjoy the benefits of living in a civilized nation with reasonable worker protections.

I want to see the Guzzi badge continue on an Italian built product of some sort. As long as its there the 'Golden Thread' that goes back to the dark days after WWI and covered everything from the rise of fascism and the 'Glory Years' of racing post-war will continue. Maybe not as it has up until now, maybe with different goals and ambitions, but it WILL continue.

The alternative is just to accept that the Guzzi name is dead. Perhaps in a lot of ways that would be for the better. I'd hate to think I had to be associated with such a bunch of miserable, tight-fisted, closed minded whingers.

For what its worth I REALLY like the Noale engine, and the rest of the package that makes up my Griso. It's enormous fun. It's dead reliable and it has style and 'Panache' to die for, even with me on it! For fucks sakes. How's about just cutting Piaggio a little bit of slack once in a while? Do that. Allow the new models to succeed, or not? And we MAY just, eventually, see the MGS-02 that so many of us want to see produced. Shit-canning EVERYTHING is just a really easy way to ensure the curtain comes down on Guzzi.

Pete

 Nice job Pete   I for one would live to see a newly powered water cooled LeMans next to my current LeMans, the Cali is even starting to grow on me.
Screw the Ludits they can go to Harley if technology scares them that much

[Calabrese]

 Nice job Pete   I for one would live to see a newly powered water cooled LeMans next to my current LeMans, the Cali is even starting to grow on me.
Screw the Ludits they can go to Harley if technology scares them that much

Pete is right, too many Guzzisti spend way way way too much time bashing the brand they supposedly are passionate about, but Pete is truly passionate about Guzzi, the others are just whiners attracted to the brand by traditional low resale value than the Guzzi ideal of a simple sturdy do everything well but nothing excellent motorcycles wrapped in Italian style and history. What other bike can you do a valve adjustment, a fluids change and an engine throttle body check in less than an hour.

[crispiegee1]

Geez, I'm sorry I mentioned ANY sort of critique of the fuel tank and the rear fender!

I generally like it, okay? But from now on, I will slavishly fawn all over anything Guzzi as "perfect!" from the get-go. Some Guzzi guys seem about as hyper sensitive as Harley folks.  

[BobW]

^ I think you made a quantum leap to think Pete's observation was directed at the simple pro/cons of the designs you stated didn't work for you or that you should become a "Kool Aid" drinker, but I may be wrong.

There are a huge group of the self proclaimed "faithful" that are very happy to be unhappy and if you're happy they are happy to try and make you unhappy too  

It's a topic that is beat to death, but to survive, any OEM needs to sell and service new units, etc. Hopefully they can count on the faithful and even better by bringing in additional NEW BUYERS that may need an offering that's a little different/modern to interest them in the Brand. Keeping old bikes on the road or in the barn is a great testament to their appeal and preserves their history and that is a fine, but separate issue. For many it goes way past constructive criticism or simply not liking how it would work nor call to them, etc.. It just gets old and it invades each thread to the point it's more a matter of controlling the postings rather than anything about the bikes. Not unlike too many HD threads which is another topic for another day  

Cheers

BTW, Pete, happy days and safe travels!  

[crispiegee1]

It's a topic that is beat to death, but to survive, any OEM needs to sell and service new units, etc. Hopefully they can count on the faithful and even better by bringing in additional NEW BUYERS that may need an offering that's a little different/modern to interest them in the Brand.

I definitely agree. (My dad, who bought his '74 new, has long said that they should come out with a watercooled V4, which is exactly what Motus did!)

So I want them to progress, I just think of a California as having a classic element to them. But on the other hand, I was totally in love with the MGS-01 as a huge step forward in Guzzi technology. I want them to attract new buyers and offer new designs, while also occasionally tipping their hats to the models that were particularly great. Triumph has done such a great job doing new models while simultaneously summoning the heritage of the Bonneville. M-G has gotten close with the V-7 Classic, but they never seem to fully develop it to its full potential.

In other words, I'm no Luddite... I want them to have new stuff and old stuff.