Erik Buell Racing EBR 1190RS - First Look

[bomber]

it's a great lookin piece of work -- while most of us can't afford 40K for a bike, the fact that high-end stuff elsewhere is still selling seems to indicate that if there was ever a market for a high-buck coach-build motorcycle, there still is today.

I'd bet on Erik.

[Rogue]

As for Buell being the answer, I'm not sold there either.

This 1190RS is not meant to answer HD's troubles.  It would never have gotten built with them in charge!

However, the now defunct Buell MC Corp. could be helping H-D by bringing in younger buyers and helping their bottom line as their sales keep slipping and their traditional customer base keep thinning out.  This was the original intent of the old H-D management when they bought Buell back in the mid-1990's.  That old mgmt team is long gone and has been replaced with very highly paid people who just want to keep milking the cash cow dry.  

It reminds me of the old GM and Chrysler, or the old Blockbuster Video owners.  They just kept milking the cash cow and ignoring the market until the market dried up and they went bankcrupt.

[Squidbuzz]

My meaning of Buell is not the answer, was not to knock Buell, but to say that company would not be the saving part to HD.  The saving part to HD, as you noted, are the people running it.  If they can change their direction and views, then they will save themselves.

I haven't been paying attention, but has the HD bottom line gotten better?

In the end, I mad because Erik didn't create an 1190 Uly for under $18K.  =)

[Rogue]

Yes you're right.  Buell would not be saving H-D now but it would certainly bring in younger people.  It brought me into their dealerships (even though I often felt unwelcome).  

I also agree with you.  Only H-D management can save themselves.  So far, they can't seem to change with the times.  Their best performance effort so far is the XR1200, which uses a toned down Buell Thunderstorm engine.  Still, this "highest performing H-D" can't even hold a candle to a Buell Lightning.  Go figure.

[Kootenanny]

Buell might not have been "saving" H-D, but they WERE allowing Harley dealers offer a more diverse product line, which is often cited as a problem for them (note the rebadged Korean bikes some of them were recently planning to flog).  The thing is, Buell was NOT a drain on H-D; hell, they only made up 3% of the whole, and AFAIK they were running a profit and pulling their own weight.  The managers who decided to purchase BMC in the first place were impressed with what Buell could do, and the original plan was to keep BMC at arms length and let 'em do their own thing over there, a sort of "skunk works."

The thing is, Buell was producing bikes--good bikes--and selling them.  Perhaps there were a few stumbles, but that happens when you're trying out new things, and they were definitely getting into their stride.  Part of the beauty of Buell as a division of H-D is that if they make something that's amazing, H-D can claim it as their own (since they own Buell)--but if Buell has a stumble, there's enough distance that it won't necessarily tarnish Harley's image much.  Had H-D given Buell proper support, but kept their hands off, Buell just might have delivered something like the 1190RS at a more reasonable price point (remember that $50 million production facility planned for BMC when the plug was pulled?).

[Rogue]

The decision was made as soon as their new CEO arrived.  It was his first To-Do list.

I'm betting he is out in another year if things don't turn around at H-D.

[Squidbuzz]

The decision was made as soon as their new CEO arrived.  It was his first To-Do list.

I'm betting he is out in another year if things don't turn around at H-D.

Not sure on that because it has been said he was brought in as part of the money that was borrowed to keep the financial arm going.  Hard to say.

One thing the old HD leadership should have done, was to not keep the Buell name.  I think if they would have called them Harley's things would have been totally different.  But hey, those are just my thoughts.

The one thing that I find funny is that the latest HOG magazine states that HD is the highest seller of bikes to the Generation Y crowd.  I'm asking, show me the numbers on that one.  Because the younger crowd I see at bike nights and such, aren't on Harleys.

[Rogue]

According to an article I read, which may be the Cycle World article that described the death of BMC, the first thing Wandell started questioning was the existence of BMC.  He already had it in his mind to shutter the division within the first week of starting.  He didn't understand why they had BMC?  

That makes sense coming from a guy who didn't ride motorcycles or knew much about the different types and market segments.  He came from a totally different industry.

[SalsaShark]

The one thing that I find funny is that the latest HOG magazine states that HD is the highest seller of bikes to the Generation Y crowd.  I'm asking, show me the numbers on that one.  Because the younger crowd I see at bike nights and such, aren't on Harleys.

Well, I'm sure they took a scientific poll at their local Harley Davidson dealership...

"Excuse me, guy in the vest and tassles, what kind of bike do you ride?"
 

[Kootenanny]

One thing the old HD leadership should have done, was to not keep the Buell name.  I think if they would have called them Harley's things would have been totally different.  But hey, those are just my thoughts.

I disagree.  Like I said above, there were advantages to keeping Buell separate.  And it wouldn't have saved Buell--in fact, it might have made it easier, because then they simply would have been cancelling some models, not shuttering a whole separate company.

I don't know what actually happened, but killing Buell sure seems the kind of thing a new CEO might do, basically showing himself to be the top dawg.  Especially a CEO who doesn't understand the subtleties of the motorcycle market.

The thing is, Buell represented a pretty small investment for H-D, but they generated a lot of press.  Bad press could be pretty much limited to Buell, but good press could be claimed by H-D; imagine the kind of press they could have gotten had the 1190RS (or something like it) been produced by a wholly-owned subsidiary.  That alone would have brought people into Harley dealers, and might have produced some ancillary sales.

[whodom]

Well, I'm sure they took a scientific poll at their local Harley Davidson dealership...

"Excuse me, guy in the vest and tassles, what kind of bike do you ride?"
 

According to recent interviews with Erik, that's almost EXACTLY what they did.  He has stated that HD polled ALL their dealers, ~80 or 90% of whom didn't sell Buells in the first place, and asked "Do you think we should keep selling Buells?"  SURPRISE!  Most answered "no".  

[Brad1445]

AKA: what the 1125R should have looked like in the first place and perhaps HD wouldn't have been able to cans Buell and Erik wouldn't be reduced to building a handful of boutique bikes that most of us will have no chance of owning....

+1

[Brad1445]

This 1190RS is not meant to answer HD's troubles.  It would never have gotten built with them in charge!

However, the now defunct Buell MC Corp. could be helping H-D by bringing in younger buyers and helping their bottom line as their sales keep slipping and their traditional customer base keep thinning out.  This was the original intent of the old H-D management when they bought Buell back in the mid-1990's.  That old mgmt team is long gone and has been replaced with very highly paid people who just want to keep milking the cash cow dry.  

It reminds me of the old GM and Chrysler, or the old Blockbuster Video owners.  They just kept milking the cash cow and ignoring the market until the market dried up and they went bankcrupt.

Yes the market shrunk but some manufactures gained volume.  Sometimes the dogs just dont like the dog food.



THis was Eriks dream, not Harleys they provided all the $$$ for research and development.  Split radiators do not mean they have to be ugly bikes, or a oversized top fairing.  IT would have cost nothing more to put a little thought in the design.  The FAIL is on Buell, not harley.  If they were selling they would not have to put $5,000 rebates on them.  

The market spoke.

[Brad1445]

Yes you're right.  Buell would not be saving H-D now but it would certainly bring in younger people.  It brought me into their dealerships (even though I often felt unwelcome).  

+1

[Schneegz]

The FAIL is on Buell, not harley.  

And yet, Buell with Harley =


While Buell without Harley =

I'm sure it's just a coincidence.

[Tpoppa]

THis was Eriks dream, not Harleys they provided all the $$$ for research and development.  Split radiators do not mean they have to be ugly bikes, or a oversized top fairing.  IT would have cost nothing more to put a little thought in the design.  The FAIL is on Buell, not harley.  If they were selling they would not have to put $5,000 rebates on them.  

The market spoke.

Give it up dude

[whodom]

Give it up dude

The boy is a freaking bulldog.  I think his jaw is locked on it and he can't let it go.

I'm sure he's reviewed the actual 1125R design documents and seen where Erik personally insisted on hideous side pods (probably labeled as such on the drawings) over the objections of the powerless Harley managers.

 

[Tpoppa]

It's been well documented by industry insiders and people "in the know."  That HD felt full fairings looked 'too Japanese'  and also required hidden radiators.  HD was also involved in approving the styling.  It's also been explained that Buell wanted the 1125 styling to be close to the stillborn Barracuda II, but HD didn't allow it.

Facts are facts, and opinions...well they're like...

More to the point, I really like the 1190RS styling and it shows what Buell has done without HD 'peeing in the their pool.'

[Rogue]

Bradd is like a wet stinky blanket.

I actually like the Pods on the 1125R.  They really do serve a good purpose of protecting the radiators and absorbing some drop damage.  They also block a lot of wind hitting your thighs.  Buell's Quiet Zone really works!  As for the value of drop damage, having repaired my friend's low speed drop on my 1125R I know it works!  $64 for a pod cover, $34 for a clutch lever.  That's it!  

[Tyrroneous]

I'm sure he's reviewed the actual 1125R design documents and seen where Erik personally insisted on hideous side pods (probably labeled as such on the drawings) over the objections of the powerless Harley managers.