Newb Question, Sport Tour Bike Model Suggestions....

[scharfg]

Hi folks this is my first post to the forum.

Sorry for such a newb question, I did a search and did not find exactly what I was looking for.

I have a cruiser (Vulcan), a dual sport (DR350 50/50) and an in between bike (Vstrom 650 90/10), I'd also like to get into sport touring as there are a group of folks in my small town in northern BC Canada that ride to Northern California every year and it sounds awesome.

I'll have to save up for a bit (no budget right now) so I would appreciate your advice in terms of what model I should be looking for.

I'm looking for is a mid sized bike (~750cc) that I could ride long distances comfortably (ie: more upright riding style), long fuel range (ie: 300+ kms per tank), reliable, low/simple maintenance and is <$5k used.
 
A buddy at work had a Suzuki GSX750F Katana in Europe that he said would be a great fit, they are fast, responsive, reliable and relatively inexpensive for what you get.  He also mentioned the Honda VFR but he said those are a bit more expensive.  I don't have any experience riding fast in the twisties (but they are the best part of riding my cruiser) so I wouldn't want something that could easily kill me :0)  I did have a '83 Suzuki GS750 for 4 years but I found it a bit slow (had to keep it over 7K rpms for the power band), not as fun in the twisites as my cruiser and uncomfortable for the longer rides.

I hope that gives you some idea what I'm looking for.  If there is another post that has already gone through all this info please point me in the right direction.

Thanks so much in advance and I look forward to your help  

[Blunder]

Throw some bags on that Wee-Strom and you're good to go.

[jfurf]

Sounds like you already own the perfect bike for that!

DL650.  

[scharfg]

Well......

I put 8000 miles on the Wee last year (yaaa I get to replace the stock tires) and boy what an uncomfortable bike for me (I'm starting to hate life after about 1.5hrs in the saddle)!  I hate to say it but I have more fun with the cruiser in the twisties!!  The Wee is a bit underpowered for me as well.  

I've got a stock DL1000 seat to try out this year and I'll be putting risers on as well in an effort to make the Wee bearable.  May be that will make the difference.....  I bought the Wee for some adventure touring where I could connect the good pavement with some dirt roads (all set up for touring, crash bars, top case, cruise control, GPS etc etc).

But I'm not going to let that stop me from looking at/wanting a sport touring machine!

I did some more research and the mid 90's ST1100's are well spoken of.  I like the idea of adding another bike  to the stable even if I get the Wee comfortable to ride long distances.  I think my thirst for more horsepower will have to be satisfied with a purpose built sport-touring machine.

Thoughts....?

[Cricket1]

Scharf-

If you can't get the Wee sorted, consider-

98-02 VFR- gear driven cams, FI, in your price range, and in the best color- yellow   (factory hard bags difficult to find)

99-04 Sprint ST or RS- yeah, its what I have, but fits your requirements, and way under budget. You should be able to get a very nice 02-04 ST with hard bags for about $4k. The Triple engine is perfect for touring or scratching the twisties, and has very good fuel injection! Most ST's have factory hard bags, RS do not. I wouldn't buy an ST w/o them, wayyy too much hassle getting the factory brackets, etc.

01-04 Yamaha FZ1- fits your requirements, but half fairing offers similar protection as the Wee, similar buffeting depending on windscreen and your height, etc. Better suspension than the Sprint, more top end pull but similar torque as the Sprint, but carbs, not FI. No factory hard bags, lots of aftermarket options.

99-02 Honda Blackbird CB1100XX- Insurance might be a killer in Canukistan, but also a great choice. Shim the rear suspension to quicken the steering, and you'll run with anyone in the twisties! (No factory bags in N. America)

99-02 Kawasaki ZZR1200- similar to the 'Bird, but less refined, and carbs. But don't pass it up.


Have fun shopping!

[scharfg]

Thanks for the good list of options Cricket1.

Hard bags would be nice that's for sure but not critical.  I"m running soft bags on my other bikes now.

I've heard the Sprint may be an option but I've shyed away given being a Triumph and having access to parts and repair facilities north of the Border in BC.  What is their mechanical track record like....?

I think I like the idea of a more wind protection so the half fairing bikes are out.

I don't know much about the Bird or the ZZR, I'll have to check them out.

I noticed you didn't say anything about the ST1100, any reason for that....?

What about the GSX750F as an option...?

Let the research begin!

Thanks....

[Bryan217]

VFR, 02-09. Hard bags are easier to find than the prior generation. Don't let all the VTEC bashing scare you.

Like Cricket said, the Sprint would also fit the bill nicely.

[Cricket1]

Thanks for the good list of options Cricket1.

Hard bags would be nice that's for sure but not critical.  I"m running soft bags on my other bikes now.

I've heard the Sprint may be an option but I've shyed away given being a Triumph and having access to parts and repair facilities north of the Border in BC.  What is their mechanical track record like....?

I think I like the idea of a more wind protection so the half fairing bikes are out.

I don't know much about the Bird or the ZZR, I'll have to check them out.

I noticed you didn't say anything about the ST1100, any reason for that....?

Let the research begin!

Thanks....

Modern Triumphs are as reliable as Japanese bikes, but parts and service are not as plentiful. Many parts are the same as Japanese bikes, and TrimphRat.net has a great cross reference list that is helpful.

 If you get a Triumph, be prepared for old guys approaching you at gas stations, etc reminiscing about their old Bonneville back in the day. That and people asking what type of BMW you ride, or the "Triumph? who makes that" comments. 

The triple engine is .  Great torque down low, but pulls strongly to redline, with a table flat torque curve. Luscious sound with an aftermarket pipe too. Really the best of both worlds, torque of a twin, up high pull of an I4. It doesnt have the high end peak rush you get from an I4, but for everyday riding, is more useable. I get 40mpg in town, and 50 on the highway. Flogging her in the twisties gets mid 40's, running with Blackbirds and other liter bikes that are getting mid 30's at the same time.


ST1100 is a fine TOURING bike and eats big miles easily, but is much larger and heavier than the Sprint. Fully fueled and with hard bags the Sprint weighs 550lbs, ST1100 is 700lbs.  ST1100 with the factory exhaust sounds like George Jetsons ship,  if that matters to you. The Yamaha FJR would be a better choice than the ST1100, and you could find a Gen 1 FJR (2002-2004) in your price range. Neither have the "flickability" of the Sprint, and are really designed for two up riding. Both come with factory hard bags standard, and have larger fairings than the Sprint, VFR, Blackbird, ZZR.

GSX750F would be a good option, as would the GSX650R. They are similar to the Katana, but with FI and obviously more modern looking. Probably at the top of your price range, but stretching to $5,500 would do the trick. At $5,500 you could get a current generation Sprint ST, 2005-2006. Similar to the 99-04, slightly sportier, and larger engine, 1050 vs. 955. (Hard bags smaller though)

Keep in mind the Sprint, Blackbird or ZZR1200 were never big sellers, so you will need to search a large area, and be willing to do a fly and ride, probably to the US. Importing the bike shouldnt be a big deal, but I have zero experience so you'll need to research that.  VFR and FJR should be slightly easier to find.

One other thing, none of my recommendations have an upright seating position. The ST1100 and FJR being the most upright. I have Genmar risers on the Sprint, brings the bars up about 1 1/3" and back about 1/2". Not a big difference, but makes it perfect for me. There are other options, Convertibars, etc. Coming from your current bikes, these will all feel "bent over", it will take some time to adjust to. Mostly use your core muscles to support your upper body.

[scharfg]

Wow thanks for the serious feedback folks, good for the soul and will keep me pumped up through these long hard cold winter days+nights!  I can't get out on the road until at least April so this is awesome.

Yikes those ST's and FJR's are on the heavy side eh!  I'm leaning towards the lighter bikes (VFR/GSX) given the better fuel economy and lighter in the corners but then I may be giving up on the comfort side of things (ie: wind in the face riding).

Isn't the GSX750F the same as the "Katana" model?  What year did they go to FI?

I like the sound of the ST, with the reasonable price, nice engine, good fuel economy and hard bags, but I can't get over the more limited service/parts given that I'm a newb when it comes to maintenance n the like.

My 1500 vulcan classic is a portly ride as well but it has a low centre of gravity so I don't think it would be fair to compare it with the weight of the ST or FJR.

So I'm looking for a bike with the lightness, flickability, fuel economy, reliability of a VFR/GSX/ST and the comfort/wind protection for long distance riding of the ST/FJ1200/GTR 1000 Concours (I do like the shaft drive low maintenance idea as well).  I don't usually ride more that 600-700 miles a day on my cruiser so that would be the comfort range I'd be looking for.  I won't be riding 2 up so something in the 750-800cc range with a lighter bike should be more than enough vroom vroom.

Is there a sub 1000cc sport touring bike that can do all that....?

[FiremanBob]

For a real bargain, find a nice Honda V45 Sabre and put bags on it. Plenty of power and torque with great gas mileage, very comfortable long-distance riding position. There are very nice condition ones available for under $1500.

[spd2918]

So I'm looking for a bike with the lightness, flickability, fuel economy, reliability of a VFR/GSX/ST and the comfort/wind protection for long distance riding of the ST/FJ1200/GTR 1000 Concours (I do like the shaft drive low maintenance idea as well).  

That's like saying you want to marry a woman half your age with model looks that's Betty Crocker in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom.    

There are a lot of bikes out there that will work good for you.  You should test ride a few to see how they fit your body and riding style.    Mostly on this site you will hear from small men that prefer sport bikes.  I would not take anyone's "expert" advice too seriously.

[scharfg]

Okay let's add another twist to the mix.

I just read the Feb 2009 "Four for the Road" article on www.motorcyclistonline.com where they compare 4 bikes as Sport Tourers (BMW R1100RT, VFR800F, Bandit 1200S and the Yami YZF600R).

Much to their and my surprise was the amazing results of the Bandit.

Overall when they compared 10 criteria the BMW scored a 6, the Honda a 9, the Bandit a 9 and the Yami was an 8.

Before reading this article I would have never considered the 1200S because of the motor/bike size and suspected poor fuel economy.

It turns out in their comparisons, the Bandit only weighed 18lbs more than the VRF and its fuel economy numbers (low/high/avg) were 34/49/42 versus the VRF of 37/46/41!  For speed the corrected 1/4 mile for the Bandit was 11.11.15sec @121.79mph and the VRF was 11.14sec @122.2mpg.

The Bandit cost $7399 versus the VRF at $9499.  Sure the Bandit does not look as nice as the VRF or handle quite so good (it did have a better suspension set up for taking on the bumps), but its wheel base is actually 0.4" shorter than the VRF's and just 0.6" longer than the Yami.  I also like that you get the power at the lower RPMs so you don't have to rev the bike high to get the kick in the pants power.

I like the fact you get a bigger motor, comprable fuel economy, low weight for motor size, low rpm power, and entry price level.

This was for the "newly reworked" Bandit 1200S.  Were there major changes to the 2009 model that if I was looking at an earlier version (to keep the price down) would make the Bandit not so appealing?

I know the Suzuki has older technology but is there something I should know about the Bandit 1200S to keep it out of my possible bikes to look at (ie: expensive maintenance, poor reliability etc)....?

As I live way north in a smallish town my test ride options are very very limited so I'm having to rely on the good folks around the web forums to assist in my research.

Interested in your feedback!

[Blunder]

The Bandit 1200(S), 1st and 2nd generation (1997?-2008?), is a jack-of-all-trades type of bike. The engine dates back to the mid-'80s and was the platform for the original GSX-R series of sportbikes. The motor's been around for ages and the aftermarket is plentiful for just about any mod you might desire. You can make just about anything you want out of it.

Stock, or just mildly modified, it's very reliable and easy to work on, for a Japanese bike. I know of one that belonged to a Los Angeles courier who took regular care of his and got over 170K miles out of it. Just take care of it as needed and there shouldn't be any major hassles. Ya, the headlights are kinda crappy, but easily fixed.

I like mine.

[scharfg]

Hi there Blunder thanks a bunch for the informative reply.

I'm certainly leaning towards the second gen Badit (2002 and on).  I found a 2004 with 27500 miles on it for $5k CND so they are in the right price range for me as well.

How does the 1200 Bandit compare to the the smaller GSX750F Katana, the Katana seems to just a heavy but for a smaller motor.  I'm suspecting the Bandit would have more grunt lower in the RPM range which is what I"m after (I did not like how I had to be over 7K on my '83 GS750E before I felt the turbo boost).

How is your fuel economy is it as high as what was reported in the motorcyclist online review....?

My biggest challenge will be saving up the purchase price so I won't get flack from "you know who" for wanting to add yet another bike ("can't you do everything with just one bike honey".....).

[Blunder]

5K for a 7 year old Bandit with that many miles seems a bit much, but maybe that's what the Canadian market calls for.  

Bandits don't hold their monetary value very well. There's a lot of "old tech" (though very reliable) in the bikes and the fit and finish of some of the materials is definitely of lesser quality than say, a Honda. The same can be said about the Katana line, as well. They're all perfectly good, mechanically sound bikes, they just don't hold resale value. I didn't care when I bought my '01 1200S because I intended to ride it until it stops, then fix it and keep riding it. I haven't had to fix it yet.

I've seen a low of 29 MPG and a high of 48 MPG at the extremes. Most of the time I'm getting between 39 and 42 MPG overall.

[scharfg]

Yeah we don't have the mass market situation going on here to push the prices down.  I've thought about getting one from the US but the distance and hassle isn't worth the ~$1500 or so I might save.

As a used purchaser I'm glad their price slips versus a Honda as I don't see a Honda model out there that can compare to the low end power, lowish weight of the Bandit (ie: only 18lbs heavier than the VRF800), wind protection and more touring than sport set up of the Bandit.  I would never be able to ride the Bandit to its full potential anyways (at my age not looking for the tank humping sport bike performance).  I was looking at the VRF but it seems to be more sporty, possibly not as comfortable/protected and more $$.

I'm fine with low tech as long as its reliable (and most often is easier to fix if something goes wrong).  

I'm like you I don't really care about re-sale as my plan is to ride the bike and enjoy it for as long as my body will let me.  I didn't put as much research into the '83 GS750 purchase but then again it was only $1800 and I sold it 4 years later for the same amount.

[Akumu]

99-02 Honda Blackbird CB1100XX- Insurance might be a killer in Canukistan, but also a great choice. Shim the rear suspension to quicken the steering, and you'll run with anyone in the twisties! (No factory bags in N. America)

99-02 Kawasaki ZZR1200- similar to the 'Bird, but less refined, and carbs. But don't pass it up.


Have fun shopping!

The Blackbird runs 97-03 (97 and 98 had Carbs)
The ZZR is 02-05, just FYI.  

[scharfg]

I just had a closer look at the Kawi ZZR1200 and wow it seems like a possible contender as well.  I don't know if I need that extra HP though given I'm a newb at this ST thing.  

Some folks had said that I may outgrow the Bandit as my canyon carving skills improve but I'm still having fun on my Vulcan Cruiser so I don't know.

Folks said I wouldn't outgrow the ZZR and because it did not do so well I could pick one up for a reasonable price (found a '02 locally with 16K miles for $5800CND.

I don't know if putting ~150Hp in my thottle hand is the best thing to do though.  It seems to meet all the other needs I had in terms of, reliability, comfort, weather protection, fun in the twisites, low end grunt, fuel economy.  It is a bit heavier than the Bandit though but once underway would not be an issue.

I'd appreciate your feedback and thoughts...?

[Mr.Black]

I just had a closer look at the Kawi ZZR1200 and wow it seems like a possible contender as well.  I don't know if I need that extra HP though given I'm a newb at this ST thing.  

Some folks had said that I may outgrow the Bandit as my canyon carving skills improve but I'm still having fun on my Vulcan Cruiser so I don't know.

Folks said I wouldn't outgrow the ZZR and because it did not do so well I could pick one up for a reasonable price (found a '02 locally with 16K miles for $5800CND.

I don't know if putting ~150Hp in my thottle hand is the best thing to do though.  It seems to meet all the other needs I had in terms of, reliability, comfort, weather protection, fun in the twisites, low end grunt, fuel economy.  It is a bit heavier than the Bandit though but once underway would not be an issue.

I'd appreciate your feedback and thoughts...?

PAH!

[scharfg]

PAH! =......?  

Sorry like I said Newb here