Newb Question, Sport Tour Bike Model Suggestions....

[scharfg]

Hi folks this is my first post to the forum.

Sorry for such a newb question, I did a search and did not find exactly what I was looking for.

I have a cruiser (Vulcan), a dual sport (DR350 50/50) and an in between bike (Vstrom 650 90/10), I'd also like to get into sport touring as there are a group of folks in my small town in northern BC Canada that ride to Northern California every year and it sounds awesome.

I'll have to save up for a bit (no budget right now) so I would appreciate your advice in terms of what model I should be looking for.

I'm looking for is a mid sized bike (~750cc) that I could ride long distances comfortably (ie: more upright riding style), long fuel range (ie: 300+ kms per tank), reliable, low/simple maintenance and is <$5k used.
 
A buddy at work had a Suzuki GSX750F Katana in Europe that he said would be a great fit, they are fast, responsive, reliable and relatively inexpensive for what you get.  He also mentioned the Honda VFR but he said those are a bit more expensive.  I don't have any experience riding fast in the twisties (but they are the best part of riding my cruiser) so I wouldn't want something that could easily kill me :0)  I did have a '83 Suzuki GS750 for 4 years but I found it a bit slow (had to keep it over 7K rpms for the power band), not as fun in the twisites as my cruiser and uncomfortable for the longer rides.

I hope that gives you some idea what I'm looking for.  If there is another post that has already gone through all this info please point me in the right direction.

Thanks so much in advance and I look forward to your help  

[Blunder]

Throw some bags on that Wee-Strom and you're good to go.

[jfurf]

Sounds like you already own the perfect bike for that!

DL650.  

[scharfg]

Well......

I put 8000 miles on the Wee last year (yaaa I get to replace the stock tires) and boy what an uncomfortable bike for me (I'm starting to hate life after about 1.5hrs in the saddle)!  I hate to say it but I have more fun with the cruiser in the twisties!!  The Wee is a bit underpowered for me as well.  

I've got a stock DL1000 seat to try out this year and I'll be putting risers on as well in an effort to make the Wee bearable.  May be that will make the difference.....  I bought the Wee for some adventure touring where I could connect the good pavement with some dirt roads (all set up for touring, crash bars, top case, cruise control, GPS etc etc).

But I'm not going to let that stop me from looking at/wanting a sport touring machine!

I did some more research and the mid 90's ST1100's are well spoken of.  I like the idea of adding another bike  to the stable even if I get the Wee comfortable to ride long distances.  I think my thirst for more horsepower will have to be satisfied with a purpose built sport-touring machine.

Thoughts....?

[Cricket1]

Scharf-

If you can't get the Wee sorted, consider-

98-02 VFR- gear driven cams, FI, in your price range, and in the best color- yellow   (factory hard bags difficult to find)

99-04 Sprint ST or RS- yeah, its what I have, but fits your requirements, and way under budget. You should be able to get a very nice 02-04 ST with hard bags for about $4k. The Triple engine is perfect for touring or scratching the twisties, and has very good fuel injection! Most ST's have factory hard bags, RS do not. I wouldn't buy an ST w/o them, wayyy too much hassle getting the factory brackets, etc.

01-04 Yamaha FZ1- fits your requirements, but half fairing offers similar protection as the Wee, similar buffeting depending on windscreen and your height, etc. Better suspension than the Sprint, more top end pull but similar torque as the Sprint, but carbs, not FI. No factory hard bags, lots of aftermarket options.

99-02 Honda Blackbird CB1100XX- Insurance might be a killer in Canukistan, but also a great choice. Shim the rear suspension to quicken the steering, and you'll run with anyone in the twisties! (No factory bags in N. America)

99-02 Kawasaki ZZR1200- similar to the 'Bird, but less refined, and carbs. But don't pass it up.


Have fun shopping!

[scharfg]

Thanks for the good list of options Cricket1.

Hard bags would be nice that's for sure but not critical.  I"m running soft bags on my other bikes now.

I've heard the Sprint may be an option but I've shyed away given being a Triumph and having access to parts and repair facilities north of the Border in BC.  What is their mechanical track record like....?

I think I like the idea of a more wind protection so the half fairing bikes are out.

I don't know much about the Bird or the ZZR, I'll have to check them out.

I noticed you didn't say anything about the ST1100, any reason for that....?

What about the GSX750F as an option...?

Let the research begin!

Thanks....

[Bryan217]

VFR, 02-09. Hard bags are easier to find than the prior generation. Don't let all the VTEC bashing scare you.

Like Cricket said, the Sprint would also fit the bill nicely.

[Cricket1]

Thanks for the good list of options Cricket1.

Hard bags would be nice that's for sure but not critical.  I"m running soft bags on my other bikes now.

I've heard the Sprint may be an option but I've shyed away given being a Triumph and having access to parts and repair facilities north of the Border in BC.  What is their mechanical track record like....?

I think I like the idea of a more wind protection so the half fairing bikes are out.

I don't know much about the Bird or the ZZR, I'll have to check them out.

I noticed you didn't say anything about the ST1100, any reason for that....?

Let the research begin!

Thanks....

Modern Triumphs are as reliable as Japanese bikes, but parts and service are not as plentiful. Many parts are the same as Japanese bikes, and TrimphRat.net has a great cross reference list that is helpful.

 If you get a Triumph, be prepared for old guys approaching you at gas stations, etc reminiscing about their old Bonneville back in the day. That and people asking what type of BMW you ride, or the "Triumph? who makes that" comments. 

The triple engine is .  Great torque down low, but pulls strongly to redline, with a table flat torque curve. Luscious sound with an aftermarket pipe too. Really the best of both worlds, torque of a twin, up high pull of an I4. It doesnt have the high end peak rush you get from an I4, but for everyday riding, is more useable. I get 40mpg in town, and 50 on the highway. Flogging her in the twisties gets mid 40's, running with Blackbirds and other liter bikes that are getting mid 30's at the same time.


ST1100 is a fine TOURING bike and eats big miles easily, but is much larger and heavier than the Sprint. Fully fueled and with hard bags the Sprint weighs 550lbs, ST1100 is 700lbs.  ST1100 with the factory exhaust sounds like George Jetsons ship,  if that matters to you. The Yamaha FJR would be a better choice than the ST1100, and you could find a Gen 1 FJR (2002-2004) in your price range. Neither have the "flickability" of the Sprint, and are really designed for two up riding. Both come with factory hard bags standard, and have larger fairings than the Sprint, VFR, Blackbird, ZZR.

GSX750F would be a good option, as would the GSX650R. They are similar to the Katana, but with FI and obviously more modern looking. Probably at the top of your price range, but stretching to $5,500 would do the trick. At $5,500 you could get a current generation Sprint ST, 2005-2006. Similar to the 99-04, slightly sportier, and larger engine, 1050 vs. 955. (Hard bags smaller though)

Keep in mind the Sprint, Blackbird or ZZR1200 were never big sellers, so you will need to search a large area, and be willing to do a fly and ride, probably to the US. Importing the bike shouldnt be a big deal, but I have zero experience so you'll need to research that.  VFR and FJR should be slightly easier to find.

One other thing, none of my recommendations have an upright seating position. The ST1100 and FJR being the most upright. I have Genmar risers on the Sprint, brings the bars up about 1 1/3" and back about 1/2". Not a big difference, but makes it perfect for me. There are other options, Convertibars, etc. Coming from your current bikes, these will all feel "bent over", it will take some time to adjust to. Mostly use your core muscles to support your upper body.

[scharfg]

Wow thanks for the serious feedback folks, good for the soul and will keep me pumped up through these long hard cold winter days+nights!  I can't get out on the road until at least April so this is awesome.

Yikes those ST's and FJR's are on the heavy side eh!  I'm leaning towards the lighter bikes (VFR/GSX) given the better fuel economy and lighter in the corners but then I may be giving up on the comfort side of things (ie: wind in the face riding).

Isn't the GSX750F the same as the "Katana" model?  What year did they go to FI?

I like the sound of the ST, with the reasonable price, nice engine, good fuel economy and hard bags, but I can't get over the more limited service/parts given that I'm a newb when it comes to maintenance n the like.

My 1500 vulcan classic is a portly ride as well but it has a low centre of gravity so I don't think it would be fair to compare it with the weight of the ST or FJR.

So I'm looking for a bike with the lightness, flickability, fuel economy, reliability of a VFR/GSX/ST and the comfort/wind protection for long distance riding of the ST/FJ1200/GTR 1000 Concours (I do like the shaft drive low maintenance idea as well).  I don't usually ride more that 600-700 miles a day on my cruiser so that would be the comfort range I'd be looking for.  I won't be riding 2 up so something in the 750-800cc range with a lighter bike should be more than enough vroom vroom.

Is there a sub 1000cc sport touring bike that can do all that....?

[FiremanBob]

For a real bargain, find a nice Honda V45 Sabre and put bags on it. Plenty of power and torque with great gas mileage, very comfortable long-distance riding position. There are very nice condition ones available for under $1500.

[spd2918]

So I'm looking for a bike with the lightness, flickability, fuel economy, reliability of a VFR/GSX/ST and the comfort/wind protection for long distance riding of the ST/FJ1200/GTR 1000 Concours (I do like the shaft drive low maintenance idea as well).  

That's like saying you want to marry a woman half your age with model looks that's Betty Crocker in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom.    

There are a lot of bikes out there that will work good for you.  You should test ride a few to see how they fit your body and riding style.    Mostly on this site you will hear from small men that prefer sport bikes.  I would not take anyone's "expert" advice too seriously.

[scharfg]

Okay let's add another twist to the mix.

I just read the Feb 2009 "Four for the Road" article on www.motorcyclistonline.com where they compare 4 bikes as Sport Tourers (BMW R1100RT, VFR800F, Bandit 1200S and the Yami YZF600R).

Much to their and my surprise was the amazing results of the Bandit.

Overall when they compared 10 criteria the BMW scored a 6, the Honda a 9, the Bandit a 9 and the Yami was an 8.

Before reading this article I would have never considered the 1200S because of the motor/bike size and suspected poor fuel economy.

It turns out in their comparisons, the Bandit only weighed 18lbs more than the VRF and its fuel economy numbers (low/high/avg) were 34/49/42 versus the VRF of 37/46/41!  For speed the corrected 1/4 mile for the Bandit was 11.11.15sec @121.79mph and the VRF was 11.14sec @122.2mpg.

The Bandit cost $7399 versus the VRF at $9499.  Sure the Bandit does not look as nice as the VRF or handle quite so good (it did have a better suspension set up for taking on the bumps), but its wheel base is actually 0.4" shorter than the VRF's and just 0.6" longer than the Yami.  I also like that you get the power at the lower RPMs so you don't have to rev the bike high to get the kick in the pants power.

I like the fact you get a bigger motor, comprable fuel economy, low weight for motor size, low rpm power, and entry price level.

This was for the "newly reworked" Bandit 1200S.  Were there major changes to the 2009 model that if I was looking at an earlier version (to keep the price down) would make the Bandit not so appealing?

I know the Suzuki has older technology but is there something I should know about the Bandit 1200S to keep it out of my possible bikes to look at (ie: expensive maintenance, poor reliability etc)....?

As I live way north in a smallish town my test ride options are very very limited so I'm having to rely on the good folks around the web forums to assist in my research.

Interested in your feedback!

[Blunder]

The Bandit 1200(S), 1st and 2nd generation (1997?-2008?), is a jack-of-all-trades type of bike. The engine dates back to the mid-'80s and was the platform for the original GSX-R series of sportbikes. The motor's been around for ages and the aftermarket is plentiful for just about any mod you might desire. You can make just about anything you want out of it.

Stock, or just mildly modified, it's very reliable and easy to work on, for a Japanese bike. I know of one that belonged to a Los Angeles courier who took regular care of his and got over 170K miles out of it. Just take care of it as needed and there shouldn't be any major hassles. Ya, the headlights are kinda crappy, but easily fixed.

I like mine.

[scharfg]

Hi there Blunder thanks a bunch for the informative reply.

I'm certainly leaning towards the second gen Badit (2002 and on).  I found a 2004 with 27500 miles on it for $5k CND so they are in the right price range for me as well.

How does the 1200 Bandit compare to the the smaller GSX750F Katana, the Katana seems to just a heavy but for a smaller motor.  I'm suspecting the Bandit would have more grunt lower in the RPM range which is what I"m after (I did not like how I had to be over 7K on my '83 GS750E before I felt the turbo boost).

How is your fuel economy is it as high as what was reported in the motorcyclist online review....?

My biggest challenge will be saving up the purchase price so I won't get flack from "you know who" for wanting to add yet another bike ("can't you do everything with just one bike honey".....).

[Blunder]

5K for a 7 year old Bandit with that many miles seems a bit much, but maybe that's what the Canadian market calls for.  

Bandits don't hold their monetary value very well. There's a lot of "old tech" (though very reliable) in the bikes and the fit and finish of some of the materials is definitely of lesser quality than say, a Honda. The same can be said about the Katana line, as well. They're all perfectly good, mechanically sound bikes, they just don't hold resale value. I didn't care when I bought my '01 1200S because I intended to ride it until it stops, then fix it and keep riding it. I haven't had to fix it yet.

I've seen a low of 29 MPG and a high of 48 MPG at the extremes. Most of the time I'm getting between 39 and 42 MPG overall.

[scharfg]

Yeah we don't have the mass market situation going on here to push the prices down.  I've thought about getting one from the US but the distance and hassle isn't worth the ~$1500 or so I might save.

As a used purchaser I'm glad their price slips versus a Honda as I don't see a Honda model out there that can compare to the low end power, lowish weight of the Bandit (ie: only 18lbs heavier than the VRF800), wind protection and more touring than sport set up of the Bandit.  I would never be able to ride the Bandit to its full potential anyways (at my age not looking for the tank humping sport bike performance).  I was looking at the VRF but it seems to be more sporty, possibly not as comfortable/protected and more $$.

I'm fine with low tech as long as its reliable (and most often is easier to fix if something goes wrong).  

I'm like you I don't really care about re-sale as my plan is to ride the bike and enjoy it for as long as my body will let me.  I didn't put as much research into the '83 GS750 purchase but then again it was only $1800 and I sold it 4 years later for the same amount.

[Akumu]

99-02 Honda Blackbird CB1100XX- Insurance might be a killer in Canukistan, but also a great choice. Shim the rear suspension to quicken the steering, and you'll run with anyone in the twisties! (No factory bags in N. America)

99-02 Kawasaki ZZR1200- similar to the 'Bird, but less refined, and carbs. But don't pass it up.


Have fun shopping!

The Blackbird runs 97-03 (97 and 98 had Carbs)
The ZZR is 02-05, just FYI.  

[scharfg]

I just had a closer look at the Kawi ZZR1200 and wow it seems like a possible contender as well.  I don't know if I need that extra HP though given I'm a newb at this ST thing.  

Some folks had said that I may outgrow the Bandit as my canyon carving skills improve but I'm still having fun on my Vulcan Cruiser so I don't know.

Folks said I wouldn't outgrow the ZZR and because it did not do so well I could pick one up for a reasonable price (found a '02 locally with 16K miles for $5800CND.

I don't know if putting ~150Hp in my thottle hand is the best thing to do though.  It seems to meet all the other needs I had in terms of, reliability, comfort, weather protection, fun in the twisites, low end grunt, fuel economy.  It is a bit heavier than the Bandit though but once underway would not be an issue.

I'd appreciate your feedback and thoughts...?

[Mr.Black]

I just had a closer look at the Kawi ZZR1200 and wow it seems like a possible contender as well.  I don't know if I need that extra HP though given I'm a newb at this ST thing.  

Some folks had said that I may outgrow the Bandit as my canyon carving skills improve but I'm still having fun on my Vulcan Cruiser so I don't know.

Folks said I wouldn't outgrow the ZZR and because it did not do so well I could pick one up for a reasonable price (found a '02 locally with 16K miles for $5800CND.

I don't know if putting ~150Hp in my thottle hand is the best thing to do though.  It seems to meet all the other needs I had in terms of, reliability, comfort, weather protection, fun in the twisites, low end grunt, fuel economy.  It is a bit heavier than the Bandit though but once underway would not be an issue.

I'd appreciate your feedback and thoughts...?

PAH!

[scharfg]

PAH! =......?  

Sorry like I said Newb here  

[Mr.Black]

PAH! =......?  

Sorry like I said Newb here  

We have a Brit (Welsh actually) member who when something is said he strongly disagrees with, shouts PAH!

I don't see myself outgrowing my Bandit anytime soon.

I would like to have additional machines but wouldn't replace it.

[scharfg]

Ah very good.

I'm glad to hear that as I want the next bike I purchase to be with me for a long time!

[Blunder]

Outgrow the B12? That's the same sort of logic that makes people get a 1000cc SS as a first bike because they feel they'll outgrow a 600 SS.  

If you ever feel the B is inadequate it's easily upgraded with whatever you think you might need.

[Cricket1]

I just had a closer look at the Kawi ZZR1200 and wow it seems like a possible contender as well.  I don't know if I need that extra HP though given I'm a newb at this ST thing. 

Some folks had said that I may outgrow the Bandit as my canyon carving skills improve but I'm still having fun on my Vulcan Cruiser so I don't know.

Folks said I wouldn't outgrow the ZZR and because it did not do so well I could pick one up for a reasonable price (found a '02 locally with 16K miles for $5800CND.

I don't know if putting ~150Hp in my thottle hand is the best thing to do though.  It seems to meet all the other needs I had in terms of, reliability, comfort, weather protection, fun in the twisites, low end grunt, fuel economy.  It is a bit heavier than the Bandit though but once underway would not be an issue.

I'd appreciate your feedback and thoughts...?

Sharf-

The ZZR1200 would make a great choice. It's similar to the Bandit in many ways, and yeah it does have more HP but in day to day riding not a big difference. You must respect that engine in the ZED, especially once past 7,000 rpm. 

I realize it's a different market up there, but someone here on STN just picked up a sweet ZZR1200 for $3,000!

Try here: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61124.0/topicseen.html

[scharfg]

Hey Cricket1, great resource thanks!

[Cricket1]

Sharf-

Here is the other thread I was thinking of-  http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61017.0.html

[Akumu]

Sharf-

The ZZR1200 would make a great choice. It's similar to the Bandit in many ways, and yeah it does have more HP but in day to day riding not a big difference. You must respect that engine in the ZED, especially once past 7,000 rpm. 

I realize it's a different market up there, but someone here on STN just picked up a sweet ZZR1200 for $3,000!

Try here: http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61124.0/topicseen.html

Here is the other thread I was thinking of-  http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61017.0.html

*blush*

That would be me. To say that I can't wait to ride this thing (beyond the short sprint at the seller's house) is...an understatement. Furthermore, I cleaned it up since those pictures. (It was missing a windshield screw. Taken care of. Light superficial rust on helibars. Taken care of and other little things that I'm so meticulous about. Mechanically, though, I think the guy actually did what he said and took it for a complete tune-up/fluid change/etc before selling it. All the fluids look like they just came out of the damned bottle. Chain/sprockets/belts/hoses. All perfect. Ok. I'll shut up now.) She's down there waiting for THIS DAMN WEATHER TO GET OUT OF THE HIGH 30s!   My point is that deals are out there... I know I was the biggest damn skeptic...

That said, ain't no one outgrowing a 1250 Bandit for some time to come. If it only had a fairing 9 years ago like the Zed it'd have been on my to get list as well, with the Blackbird and a Gen I Hayabusa.

[scharfg]

I had another bike suggested to me that I wanted your kind folk's input on.

How does the Suzuki SV1000s stack up against the 1250S as a sport tourer (I'm more into the touring than the sport side of things)....?

Is it a more "hump the football" type of riding style....?

Does it have the low RPM grunt like the 1250S?

With a 17L tank is the range that much less (ie: I want to have ~180 miles per tank on the HWY)?

I see its also lighter than the 1250S.

Thanks!

[Cricket1]

Sharf-

I have't ridden one, so this makes me an internet expert, but the 650S and 1000S both have BRUTAL ergos! From the factory they are every bit as aggressive as any 600 SS. That said, some folks have farkled the crap out of the SV1000s in an attempt to make a SPORT tourer of one, only to find that the tank range is a real hinderance. If you live in the east, not a big deal, if you ride out west?  Hmmm,  might want to carry extra gas.  

[nater]

Sharf-

I have't ridden one, so this makes me an internet expert, but the 650S and 1000S both have BRUTAL ergos! From the factory they are every bit as aggressive as any 600 SS. That said, some folks have farkled the crap out of the SV1000s in an attempt to make a SPORT tourer of one, only to find that the tank range is a real hinderance. If you live in the east, not a big deal, if you ride out west?  Hmmm,  might want to carry extra gas.  

Brutal??  I think they are comfortable.

[Cricket1]

Brutal??  I think they are comfortable.

Nater-

YMMV, but I see you have a GSXR so...... it would make sense they are comfortable to you. Lots of people who have the S models end up putting bar risers and lower pegs on them. Not all, and great if it is comfortable for you. But compared to a Bandit 1200, yeah, its a much more committed position.

[scharfg]

Thanks for the follow up folks, based on the smaller gas tank and less than upright riding position I think I'm going to pass on the SV and continue my plan to get a 1250S.....

Have a great weekend and thanks again for the assistance!

[jfurf]

I had another bike suggested to me that I wanted your kind folk's input on.

How does the Suzuki SV1000s stack up against the 1250S as a sport tourer (I'm more into the touring than the sport side of things)....?

Is it a more "hump the football" type of riding style....?

Does it have the low RPM grunt like the 1250S?

With a 17L tank is the range that much less (ie: I want to have ~180 miles per tank on the HWY)?

I see its also lighter than the 1250S.

Thanks!

Scharf, I own an SV1000 naked model. There are two SV1ks. The naked and the S (half-faired model). They're great bikes, but have a smaller range than the Bandit. Also, the SV1000S has very low clip-ons. You can install bars, but I think you might be better off just getting a bandit or DL1000 if you're looking for a tourer.

I still think the DL650 is just about the perfect light touring bike.  

[scharfg]

Let's hope those pull back risers and DL1000 seat give me the comfort I'm looking for to be able to ride my DL650 for more than 1.5hrs at a time without cryin like a baby from the pain....  

[cb919er]

get a 919!

ok, maybe not, the lack of wind protection is not for everyone, The Yamaha FZ6 could be a good choice, but if your comfortable on your Vulcan, just ride it. Any group that has any people that are decent human beings wont care what you ride.

[scharfg]

Oh its not about trying to fit in with other riders, I frequently go on solo 2 week rides just cuz I can and I need to ride great roads....

Its about wanting another bike that does something the cruiser won't with my skill set (ie: carve those corners, handle like crazy and go really really fast in a short time frame!!).

And if there is room on the credit card and in the garage why not...?  Especially if there is a good a bike like the Bandit sounds for meeting my needs and wants.  

[blackfoot36]

The Bandit 1200S is a great bike, does everything pretty well. I ended up selling mine because I just couldn't get comfortable on it, not because of any performance issues. My buddy has a 1200S and absolutly no comfort issues. One bike I was surprised not to have seen in this thread is the first generation Kawasaki Concours. I test rode a used one back to back with a BMW R1100RT & really liked it. There are quite a few 04-06 Connies out there at a good price. Fast, handle well, wind protection, storage, big tank and very reliable. My 2 cents.

[OrangeSVS]

One thing that will surprise you with the 1100cc+ SPORT-tourers (heavy emphasis on sport) is that they really come into their own starting around 50mph or so.

You've got all that added weight, the extra wheelbase, an engine that doesn't start really pumping out the ponies below, say, 7K rpm. What you wind up with is a bike that is just starting to get interesting as you approach the faster speed limits. The reason you like your Vulcan in the twisties is probably because your Vulcan IS more fun in 20mph, 30mph, and 40mph twisties than a ZZR or Blackbird would be. I'd say the best descriptor for those bikes would be to call them Hyper-Tourers. They are just insanely awesome, and just starting to breathe fire, at 80mph+.

Now, load up a passenger and 70lbs of luggage and the equation changes. Maybe the comfort that the 1200cc I4 beast of a bike gives you at 50-100mph+ is exactly what you want in that case. But still, down at low speeds, you're limited by the tires more than the motor (assuming it's geared low enough). Put the bike in the proper gear and 600-800cc's is more than enough to launch you and a passenger forward to the next turn... and if your passenger falls off, then a light 600-800cc machine will stomp a ZZR, Blackbird, or Bandit, etc in twisties that are limiting you to 50mph or less in the straights.  It becomes about brakes and mass. And here, the 1200cc+ beasts will give up some ground to something smaller, lighter and/or more nimble (VFR, Sprint, etc).

So what I'm saying is, choose your mission profile. Want to hit 100mph+ with a passenger on the back and full luggage? ZZR/BB win. I4's win. But if you want to push yourself in low-speed backwoods twisties, then these may not be the ideal bikes to fit your mission. Look more towards the Sprint or VFR (for the flatter torque curves and lighter weights).... or the B1250S which is set up for more torque down low. Or sure, a 750cc Katana.

Literbikes... they're always faster, but they're never pushed to their limits for as long on the streets before you run out of guts or pavement. And let's face it, if it were truly all about speed, we'd all just buy a ticket on a 737 and go three times faster than the bike will take us. So it's gotta be about the ride and the experience of flogging a bike, right? So if you're going solo, get something you can flog, not something that's going to stay in first gear up to 70mph.

As you surely already know, riding a slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow. My CB1 (400cc's) was great fun in the city and tight twisties... It just couldn't tour worth a damn due to its small size and lack of power. The SV was closer to ideal. It had more power, was a bit bigger, handled competently in twisties... but still, it'd start feeling a little bit weak up around 65-80mph (though, to be fair, it's not very powerful compared to what a 650cc engine could be capable in a more sport-oriented package). And if I had a passenger and some luggage on the SV, it would really stop feeling so much like a sportbike, and start feeling like an over-loaded drag-inducing missile at anything above 50mph.

So I think something in the neighborhood of a high-output 750cc is the perfect blend of touring capability and high speed competence for a solo sport-tourer who packs light and is looking to hit some serious twisties with a very occasional passenger. You can still pack a good burden on it, yet it won't leave you sitting in first gear all the time with a bored left foot when you're trying to ride the tighter roads. Or maybe a Buell? That might be worth considering if the maintenance issues with a defunct brand don't scare you off.

Based on the fact that you like your Vulcan in the twisties, I suspect that "that connection" you get from "working" a bike through a set of turns is more rewarding for you than what you see on a stopwatch at the end of the ride. So based on that, I'd warn you against getting "too much bike" for your intended mission... it'd be like bringing a gun to a martial arts contest. Oh sure, it's a great tool for ass-kicking, but no matter how many blackbelts surrender to your firearm, it doesn't really prove anything to yourself or anyone else. And it's not very rewarding (I doubt they'd give you a trophy).

So I say, find something that, on the low end, you will need to work a little harder with because the flogging is the fun part (eg CB1), but that still offers you satisfying torque to pull away from 50mph, 70mph, 120mph or whatever cruising speed that you expect to normally carry while fully-loaded (eg ZZR/BB). In the end, I think you'll find that whatever bike best balances these two attributes for your style of riding will be the one you fall in love with for sport-touring.


Other thoughts for solo SPORT-touring not involving an insane number of miles/day...

Daytona 675 with hard bags
Any recent 600/750SS with hard bags (the I4 engines will keep you working for your smiles, but see what speeds you need to hit to reach the power band in first, and then see what reducing that will do to your RPM's at cruising speed. There's a trade-off there and it's kind of ugly if you decide to ride the interstate much)
VFR800
BMW F800 ST
Ducati ST2 / ST4

[Cricket1]

Orange-

Excellent advice, I nominate it for post of the year!   

[birdrunner]

5K for a 7 year old Bandit with that many miles seems a bit much, but maybe that's what the Canadian market calls for.  

Bandits don't hold their monetary value very well. There's a lot of "old tech" (though very reliable) in the bikes and the fit and finish of some of the materials is definitely of lesser quality than say, a Honda. The same can be said about the Katana line, as well. They're all perfectly good, mechanically sound bikes, they just don't hold resale value. I didn't care when I bought my '01 1200S because I intended to ride it until it stops, then fix it and keep riding it. I haven't had to fix it yet.

I've seen a low of 29 MPG and a high of 48 MPG at the extremes. Most of the time I'm getting between 39 and 42 MPG overall.

The price seems a bit high, though it's not totally nuts.
 
For that kind of money you should be able to find a more modern design (even if a older model year) in a VFR, Blackbird, ZZR1200 etc.

FWIW,  the  Supersport-tourers,  like the Superblackbird, etc are actually very easy to ride,  it's just hard to keep your license.

[cbsnbiker]

Let's hope those pull back risers and DL1000 seat give me the comfort I'm looking for to be able to ride my DL650 for more than 1.5hrs at a time without cryin like a baby from the pain....  

Have you investigated aftermarket seat options for the Wee Strom? I don't have experience with the DL1000 seat, but I have put aftermarket seats on my bikes and been happy.

I spent some time on a friend's Wee Strom. I liked it. If I owned just one bike, that might be it.

 

[scharfg]

Orange, thank you for the great detail and nuggets of wisdom, most helpful.

I agree, I don't want a bike that starts to be fun at the 50mph+ mark in first gear at 7K+ rpm.  That what why I tried and then sold the '83 GS750ES I had, the booster rockets didn't kick in till 7K+ rpm.  I wouldn' t be able to ride the Blackbird/ZZR to its full potential to enjoy what those type of bikes have to offer so I'm interested in a more mellow ST that can still kick butt and handle but not in such a monster class as those type of bikes.

Thus my interest in the Bandit with it reaching torque monster status at 3.5k rpm (based on what I've read as I've never ridden one).  I visited the local Suzuki dealer and asked about a demo ride but they've had bad experiences do its a no go, so I'm back to my internet research.

I'm leaning away from the old ST stand by's like the ST1100 and the Connie given the weight and footprint size, again one of the attractions of the Bandit given its about 200lbs less (given it does not offer the on board storage or weather protection but then neither does my Vulcan and I'm okay with that as long as I can moderate the wind buffetting).

So I have a smaller bike now in the Wee Strom but the power band is too linear /polite for me, there is no "wow" factor thus my interest in the Bandit as it may be a bit heavier but its power to weight ratio is awesome at the lower RPMs.

Yes if I can't get the seat comfort thing worked out with the DL1000 seat, bead seat/Air hawk, I'll have to consider the aftermarket seat option.

Great info thanks again folks!

[Elessar]

OMG.  You have three pages of recommendations and have refuted everyone's opinion with facts and figures that you spew like a recorded version of an article that you've read as if you've the experience to qualify these issues.

More than one responder has said: "...go try some of these bikes out and see which one fits you...," to which it would seem that you have an argument that you need to espouse about why this or that doesn't fit your mental picture of what you're after.

I too feel like a noob when it comes to riding and I have been riding for over thirty years.  The base of my experience is not as broad as most here and like you, I should just get out there and ride more.   That seems to be the good advice you've been given repeatedly.  Go try them for yourself...

[OrangeSVS]

Thus my interest in the Bandit with it reaching torque monster status at 3.5k rpm (based on what I've read as I've never ridden one).  I visited the local Suzuki dealer and asked about a demo ride but they've had bad experiences do its a no go, so I'm back to my internet research.

Having an SV650, I feel comfortable commenting on the WeeStrom engine. It has about 65hp and you're right, it's very linear with little "wow" factor. That's what made my CB-1 with the I-4 so much fun. It'd rev up and start to kick (a 12 year old's) butt and when you started getting out of the power range, the bike would really let you know! No, it wasn't fast, but the fact that you could work and keep it in the rev range was pretty danged awesome.

I too felt the SV/WeeStrom motor is just a tiny bit on the weak side for sport-touring, but it wasn't by all that much... it was just rather flat in its power delivery (not a bad thing at all for touring or commuting duty, not so thrilling for the sport-side of riding).

The Bandit might be a bit of overcompensation though, meaning that it may take you closer to the "too much power for small roads" side of the equation than you intend to go. Something like a lowly Triumph Daytona 675 or a 600cc supersport is already going to have 70% or more horsepower than your WeeStrom and it will be peaky. The Bandit is going to have about the same amount of power as those supersports, but will be LESS peaky, just like your WeeStrom. So basically, going from the Wee to the Bandit, you're replacing one flat torque curve with another, albeit with more power that will be more fun at highway speeds, but a little bit less fun in the tight twisties. I think the fun you seem to be looking for is more in the peaky I4 (or maybe triple or boxer, as a compromise) variety.

So, while I think the Bandit is a great bike, and I think you'll be very happy with it purely on the basis of having more power, it's still not going to have you working the tranny through the twisties the way that a 600/675/750/800 would.

I'm not saying it's a bad choice at all, but 100hp from a Bandit is very different from 100hp on a Daytona/R6/etc. Based on the fact that you like the Vulcan in the twisties, I really think you need a change in engine power-delivery characteristics (more "peaky"), a lighter more flickable frame, and just a smidge more power, rather than blowing the doors open with something like a Bandit with its greater hp AND flatter torque curve.

But like I just said, you're going to be happy either way. I'm not knocking the choice, I just think that when you really think about it, you're going to find more happiness in the twisties if you have a more peaky engine that makes you work harder, just like your Vulcan does.

[roadstar]

New to this site also & came apon this thread   The advice on here is perfect in every way, as sport touring is just a frame of mind. Some have done SS1000 IBA rides on 250`s, so it can be done with just about anything. You complain about the seat (have a Russell made just for you) to fit the weestrom & i`m pretty sure someone came in 5th in the IBA 2010 rally with a wee. With the right tires & rider the wee can surely put some other SS riders too shame. (i have seen it done) Like you, i did some Concours owners rides with a Yamaha Roadstar 1600 & 1700 , great to pull out of corners & can ride for ever in the saddle, but was missing that into the corner & lets see how far it can lean factor. I love my 07 FJR for what it does in the corners & for long distance rides also (but it`s not for everyone as it is a little on the heavier side of bikes), but see what you feel like after chasing us old over weight heavy bike riders after 500 miles of mostly back road & highway miles on an SS bike. As they say , every bike has an ass that fits it, you just have to find which one. Most likely in a year or so there will be a wee in my garage all decked out for the do it all style riding i enjoy.

Almost forgot to add my bike pic   if you like the grunt of a twin & the size of the wee, did you ever consider a Buell Uly  

[scharfg]

Hey Roadstar thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, I'm going to take the Wee to New Mexico instead of the Vulcan this trip so I'll be seeing what the bike can do and alter my riding style away from the cruiser "leave it in one gear all day" to a more "work the gears that's what they are there for" in and out of the corners to get the giggle factor I"m looking for.

I want to stick to a Japanese brand and given the Buell is out of business and I'm not good with mechanics so I'm looking for the reliability and more time in the saddle, less tinkering etc.

Thanks again!

[roadstar]

Hey Roadstar thanks for the feedback!

Yeah, I'm going to take the Wee to New Mexico instead of the Vulcan this trip so I'll be seeing what the bike can do and alter my riding style away from the cruiser "leave it in one gear all day" to a more "work the gears that's what they are there for" in and out of the corners to get the giggle factor I"m looking for.

I want to stick to a Japanese brand and given the Buell is out of business and I'm not good with mechanics so I'm looking for the reliability and more time in the saddle, less tinkering etc.

Thanks again!

WOW nice ride !!! (not sure if i`m allowed to say) but go here http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/index.php & ask all the questions you can think of (but use the search button first there) as you always get someone to say do a search   I go there once a week and update my way of liking those bikes more & more.    As for the Buell , what i have read, they are reliable. F.i. hydraulic lifters & self adjusting belt drive & just about any HD dealer can work on it.

[scharfg]

Yes I can hardley wait, since we have to park out bikes at the start of October and then they sleep till May up this way!!

Oh yes I am very familiar with those Stromtrooper folks, excellent resource as are all the different forums I've ever checked out  

Good to know about the Buell......

[DredheadV2.0]

Some folks had said that I may outgrow the Bandit

Bought mine new in 2002 and have yet to exceed its capabilities.  Sure, there are more flickable bikes but few of us can take advantage of all that a more purpose-built carving knife has to offer.

[davemeister]

VFR is the way to go. Any year that you can afford but I like the 1998-2001 models.

[scharfg]

VFR is the way to go. Any year that you can afford but I like the 1998-2001 models.

Is that because those years are more reliable n such or.....?

What about parts availalbility for the future....?

Would the VRF be comfortable enough for 600+ mile days (ie: in weather as well)...?

[Bryan217]

He probably picked those years because of the gear driven cams and lack of VTEC. I prefer 06 and up myself. VTEC doesn't bother me (I actually kinda like it) and they worked out the bugs by the 06 model. You have to watch the electrical on some of the earlier ones.

As for 600 mile+ days, I'd suggest a seat (Sargent or Corbin) and maybe some risers if you want. Other than that, you should be good.

[scharfg]

Ah '06 and up eh.....  So what are the valuve check intervals on the '06 and up....?

That sounds like a possibility, thanks!

[OrangeSVS]

The OP and I exchanged some PM's awhile back. Based on what we talked about, I'm endorsing the Bandit option, with the caveat that I really feel that a BMW or Buell would be better for him... if only he were more willing to deal with any maintenance issues that they would entail. But, given his reservations about getting maintenance performed on odd-ball brands (understandable, I guess), I'm hard-pressed to come up with anything better out of Japan.

Personally, I don't feel that maintenance issues are a justifiable reason to shy away from a brand, unless you're using it for reliable regular transportation on a regular basis (ie, need to keep it in good shape and suffering a week or two of down time to order parts will put you in a really bad spot). But, I'd say reasonable minds can differ on that issue.



NOTE: This isn't intended to be me being a douche and revealing "private" messages. It's just furthering the fair and fun and interesting conversation. I want this guy to love his next bike as much as the rest of us will ours.      


Looking back I may have glossed over some comments he made before about reaching "torque-monster" (love that phrase) status at low RPMs. The Bandit's gonna have that. I get why it's such an appealing machine. Yet I still suspect it's going to have more top end than he requires and getting some "character" out of the motor at lower speeds would be more delicious more of the time. But it's a good simple honest machine. I still say the BMW or Buell would be worth a gander, but I'm starting to warm up to the idea of this guy on a Bandit. It makes more sense for reliability, simplicity, etc than I may have given him credit for (hey, extra power up top really can't be a bad thing!).

But given his feelings about strange brands, I'm "getting" the Bandit more and more. My gut still votes for a Buell or BMW though.    

[scharfg]

Well said!

Thanks again OrangeSVS.....

[DredheadV2.0]

Looking back I may have glossed over some comments he made before about reaching "torque-monster" (love that phrase) status at low RPMs. The Bandit's gonna have that. I get why it's such an appealing machine. Yet I still suspect it's going to have more top end than he requires and getting some "character" out of the motor at lower speeds would be more delicious more of the time.

And that's when you start changing the sprockets.  Go down a couple teeth in the back and up one in the front (all after confirming the changes with Maximum Suzuki types, or one of our more rabid Banditeers) and you will have gobs and gobs and gobs of hoolie fun, for the price of sprockets and possibly a chain.  But if he's gonna do that, may as well get used to changing the chain.  And the back tire.  A lot.  

[OrangeSVS]

And that's when you start changing the sprockets.  Go down a couple teeth in the back and up one in the front (all after confirming the changes with Maximum Suzuki types, or one of our more rabid Banditeers) and you will have gobs and gobs and gobs of hoolie fun, for the price of sprockets and possibly a chain.  But if he's gonna do that, may as well get used to changing the chain.  And the back tire.  A lot.  

No disagreement from me there... except that I don't think he's exactly looking precisely for hoolie fun, which is kinda why I'm trying to keep my foot wedged in the door for something like a Buell, Triumph, or an F800ST, although the Bandit nevertheless looks like the more convenient choice for him.

[davemeister]

I agree. No factory bags in the US just find a used wingrack and givi bags for it.
98-02 VFR- gear driven cams, FI, in your price range, and in the best color- yellow  Drool (factory hard bags difficult to find)

[Cheddarhead]

Normally, a $5K budget would easily get you into 2G / 3G VFR territory...or even an older (2003 - 05) ST1300.  Great rides with bulletproof engines.
Here's a 2G that is half of what you're budgeting...leaving plenty to deal with import taxes / fees and lots of gas and tires!
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61608.0.html

Back to the bandit, though...

Here's an especially well-packaged Bandit for your consideration...and don't worry 'bout the distance for a minute.  If you don't want to do a "fly and ride" there are at least half a dozen ST-ner's who woul immediately volunteer to pilot the bike up your way for no more than the cost of a return airline ticket.
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61520.msg1425844.html#new

Here's another...a bit older, but the miles indicate that she's just now hitting her prime!  Smokin' hot color, too...
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,61509.msg1421302.html#new

We could probably set-up a proverbial chain gang and "hot saddle" it all the way 'cross the country for you...

[scharfg]

Hey Chedderhead, some fine options and thanks for the idea about folks helping me with the "delivery" logistics.  I am very much into doing a fly n ride as part of the purchase experience.

I'm looking to "do the deed" for next riding season which will have to wait till ~end of April 2012.  I'm doing the prelim research now cuz our dang winters are just so friggen looooooong so I have to keep the motor running in other ways so to speak.

I'd really like to find one of those 2009 dealer left overs but fat chance on that come next year (saw one last month for $7K, up here they are $10K for a '10).

Thanks again folks!

[birdrunner]

Hey Chedderhead, some fine options and thanks for the idea about folks helping me with the "delivery" logistics.  I am very much into doing a fly n ride as part of the purchase experience.

I'm looking to "do the deed" for next riding season which will have to wait till ~end of April 2012.  I'm doing the prelim research now cuz our dang winters are just so friggen looooooong so I have to keep the motor running in other ways so to speak.

I'd really like to find one of those 2009 dealer left overs but fat chance on that come next year (saw one last month for $7K, up here they are $10K for a '10).

Thanks again folks!

You should adjust your personal info to give readers an idea of where in the world you live,  don't have to be too precise,  but we'd like to know which region to insult when you post.

[scharfg]

Good idea, done!

Insult away  

[birdrunner]

Good idea, done!

Insult away  

Well if you're from Terrace, PG or Smithers, I was wondering ...

If you parents were to divorce, would they still be cousins?

[scharfg]

Damn you are good!!  

Thanks for making my day!

[birdrunner]

Well,  I've got friends in Terrace.
 

[scharfg]

Hey that's kewl.  Terrace is a good place to have friends especially if you like to catch and eat salmon!!  Yum Yum....

Take care.

[scharfg]

Update folks.

I took that 2000 Bandit out for a test ride yesterday.

OMG!!!!  

I was very impressed, low vibes, flickable, good brakes, tonnes of power, reasonable wind protection I think I found my next bike!

Thanks again for all your help along this journey.....

[Jay S.]

One thing that will surprise you with the 1100cc+ SPORT-tourers (heavy emphasis on sport) is that they really come into their own starting around 50mph or so.

You've got all that added weight, the extra wheelbase, an engine that doesn't start really pumping out the ponies below, say, 7K rpm. What you wind up with is a bike that is just starting to get interesting as you approach the faster speed limits. The reason you like your Vulcan in the twisties is probably because your Vulcan IS more fun in 20mph, 30mph, and 40mph twisties than a ZZR or Blackbird would be. I'd say the best descriptor for those bikes would be to call them Hyper-Tourers. They are just insanely awesome, and just starting to breathe fire, at 80mph+.

Now, load up a passenger and 70lbs of luggage and the equation changes. Maybe the comfort that the 1200cc I4 beast of a bike gives you at 50-100mph+ is exactly what you want in that case. But still, down at low speeds, you're limited by the tires more than the motor (assuming it's geared low enough). Put the bike in the proper gear and 600-800cc's is more than enough to launch you and a passenger forward to the next turn... and if your passenger falls off, then a light 600-800cc machine will stomp a ZZR, Blackbird, or Bandit, etc in twisties that are limiting you to 50mph or less in the straights.  It becomes about brakes and mass. And here, the 1200cc+ beasts will give up some ground to something smaller, lighter and/or more nimble (VFR, Sprint, etc).

So what I'm saying is, choose your mission profile. Want to hit 100mph+ with a passenger on the back and full luggage? ZZR/BB win. I4's win. But if you want to push yourself in low-speed backwoods twisties, then these may not be the ideal bikes to fit your mission. Look more towards the Sprint or VFR (for the flatter torque curves and lighter weights).... or the B1250S which is set up for more torque down low. Or sure, a 750cc Katana.

Literbikes... they're always faster, but they're never pushed to their limits for as long on the streets before you run out of guts or pavement. And let's face it, if it were truly all about speed, we'd all just buy a ticket on a 737 and go three times faster than the bike will take us. So it's gotta be about the ride and the experience of flogging a bike, right? So if you're going solo, get something you can flog, not something that's going to stay in first gear up to 70mph.

As you surely already know, riding a slow bike fast is more fun than riding a fast bike slow. My CB1 (400cc's) was great fun in the city and tight twisties... It just couldn't tour worth a damn due to its small size and lack of power. The SV was closer to ideal. It had more power, was a bit bigger, handled competently in twisties... but still, it'd start feeling a little bit weak up around 65-80mph (though, to be fair, it's not very powerful compared to what a 650cc engine could be capable in a more sport-oriented package). And if I had a passenger and some luggage on the SV, it would really stop feeling so much like a sportbike, and start feeling like an over-loaded drag-inducing missile at anything above 50mph.

So I think something in the neighborhood of a high-output 750cc is the perfect blend of touring capability and high speed competence for a solo sport-tourer who packs light and is looking to hit some serious twisties with a very occasional passenger. You can still pack a good burden on it, yet it won't leave you sitting in first gear all the time with a bored left foot when you're trying to ride the tighter roads. Or maybe a Buell? That might be worth considering if the maintenance issues with a defunct brand don't scare you off.

Based on the fact that you like your Vulcan in the twisties, I suspect that "that connection" you get from "working" a bike through a set of turns is more rewarding for you than what you see on a stopwatch at the end of the ride. So based on that, I'd warn you against getting "too much bike" for your intended mission... it'd be like bringing a gun to a martial arts contest. Oh sure, it's a great tool for ass-kicking, but no matter how many blackbelts surrender to your firearm, it doesn't really prove anything to yourself or anyone else. And it's not very rewarding (I doubt they'd give you a trophy).

So I say, find something that, on the low end, you will need to work a little harder with because the flogging is the fun part (eg CB1), but that still offers you satisfying torque to pull away from 50mph, 70mph, 120mph or whatever cruising speed that you expect to normally carry while fully-loaded (eg ZZR/BB). In the end, I think you'll find that whatever bike best balances these two attributes for your style of riding will be the one you fall in love with for sport-touring.


Other thoughts for solo SPORT-touring not involving an insane number of miles/day...

Daytona 675 with hard bags
Any recent 600/750SS with hard bags (the I4 engines will keep you working for your smiles, but see what speeds you need to hit to reach the power band in first, and then see what reducing that will do to your RPM's at cruising speed. There's a trade-off there and it's kind of ugly if you decide to ride the interstate much)
VFR800
BMW F800 ST
Ducati ST2 / ST4

This might be one of the greatest motorcycle forum posts of all time. Well said brother.  

[Justin]

This might be one of the greatest motorcycle forum posts of all time. Well said brother.  

It may also be one of the longest  

[DredheadV2.0]

It may also be one of the longest  

Ben isn't known for his brevity.

He IS one sexy beast, though.

[jfurf]

It may also be one of the longest  

Shit. Probably not even his longest this week today.

[scharfg]

Hey folks I hope you are getting a lot of riding in this summer.

I've done my one long trip of the year at the end of May, travelled to northern New Mexico on my Vulcan (6000 miles), was suppose to be on my '09 Wee but turns out my wiring harness was fried (bike was running fine, only sign was some melted/exposed wires) so I had to trade bikes as the harness was on 3 weeks back order (welcome to Canada eh!).

Anyhows I'm still doing the research for next season's sport touring riding, top of the list is still the Bandit although I would like your input regarding the '11 Yami FZ1, it has about the same torque as the bandit with ~30 more HP and is lighter.  They put a semi fairing on it this year to help with the elements.  I ask because my friend who owns a ZZR and is telling me to get a ZZR rode both the Bandit ('08) and an older FZ1 and he said the FZ1 was very powerful and reminded him of his ZZR.  I'm worried the FZ1 won't have the low end torque in every gear like the Bandit so I may have to ride it in the higher RPM's and that it won't be as comfortable for those 10+hr days in the saddle.

Anyone experienced the '11 FZ1 version?

Ps: the 2011 Bandit appears to be ~$2000 less retail over the FZ1

[birdrunner]

Hey folks I hope you are getting a lot of riding in this summer.

I've done my one long trip of the year at the end of May, travelled to northern New Mexico on my Vulcan (6000 miles), was suppose to be on my '09 Wee but turns out my wiring harness was fried (bike was running fine, only sign was some melted/exposed wires) so I had to trade bikes as the harness was on 3 weeks back order (welcome to Canada eh!).

Anyhows I'm still doing the research for next season's sport touring riding, top of the list is still the Bandit although I would like your input regarding the '11 Yami FZ1, it has about the same torque as the bandit with ~30 more HP and is lighter.  They put a semi fairing on it this year to help with the elements.  I ask because my friend who owns a ZZR and is telling me to get a ZZR rode both the Bandit ('08) and an older FZ1 and he said the FZ1 was very powerful and reminded him of his ZZR.  I'm worried the FZ1 won't have the low end torque in every gear like the Bandit so I may have to ride it in the higher RPM's and that it won't be as comfortable for those 10+hr days in the saddle.

Anyone experienced the '11 FZ1 version?

Ps: the 2011 Bandit appears to be ~$2000 less retail over the FZ1

Save yourself the money,  buy a used XX, drop $2000.00 into suspension, and have a bike that's better than either.   (I may be biased     but there is a hint of truth there)

[jfurf]

I'm worried the FZ1 won't have the low end torque in every gear like the Bandit so I may have to ride it in the higher RPM's and that it won't be as comfortable for those 10+hr days in the saddle.

What is "higher RPMs" for you? If you're used to riding cruisers with big-bore, long-stroke v-twin engines, 5000 rpms might seem high to you at first. But honestly, after a little while on an oversquare dohc inline-4, 5000 rpms is nothing. My guess is that the FZ1 engine will give you plenty of juice in every gear as long as you're not lugging it.

I mean, it's a detuned R1 engine. How much more power do you need?