Are motorcycles getting better, worse, or staying the same?

[SWriverstone]

I think the general question of whether motorcycles are improving or not is legitimate. There are plenty of things about new bikes that irritate people (digital this, powered that, linked this, electronic that).

Then again, there are plenty of things about new bikes that people love (digital this, powered that, linked this, electronic that).

It gets more complicated when you consider things like...
• reliability
• fuel efficiency
• handling
• looks

One thing I think most people can agree on is that bikes are more difficult to maintain yourself these days (or do you disagree?)

Personally, I think the "improvement curve" just flattens more every year—manufacturers are struggling more to make smaller improvements. There simply aren't any of those quantum breakthroughs that revolutionize motorcycling.

At the same time, everything is marketing-driven...meaning manufacturers will always act like they've made all sorts of colossal improvements, when the reality is that they're just stepping sideways with cosmetic and ergonomic changes that really can't be considered improvements—just changes.

What do you think?

Scott

[toddrod]

You'd have to make some type of better argument that bikes are getting worse?

The question is very general, and my general answer is in a vast majority of cases, bikes are a lot better today than they have been in the past.

The only thing that sucks is that they are getting more expensive too.  

[Rabidsnipe]

I would agree that bikes are getting more difficult to maintain.  But that is the cost that we pay for higher fuel milage, more power, longer lasting, etc.  For me it's a boon and a bane.  On the one hand I like my bikes (& cars) to be longer lasting, higher power, etc.  I like the better fuel milage, the longer service intervals, etc.  But on the other hand, I don't like the idea that, even though I might not have to tinker with the machine all the time to keep it in tip top shape, if it ever does break down it's more likely I won't be able to fix it.

[stefrrr]

They're just getting bigger. With the increased power-engine size ratio, I would expect that there would be better options in the smaller cc range. With few exceptions, what you have are 600-650 cc bikes or 1000+ cc bikes.

Something(s) in between would be nice.

[DogBoy]

Getting better all the time.

[Jeff N]

They're going in circles. At least that's what I think when I sort through my own personal checks and balances. The bikes themselves are fantastic. The fact that they're getting harder and harder for the home mechanic to do some of the even most basic maintenance? That's a negative to me. And if I can't do it at home, I wonder what quality of work will be performed by the dealer's mechanics. The only shops I've ever seen that had a majority of mechanics over the age of 30 and were well known amongst their local customers were BMW and Ducati shops and the like. Every other dealer seems to have one expert mechanic and then a bunch of spotty kids around him.

So, they're getting better, but is the improvement worth all the extra hassle. My old style Bandit 1200 seems to work just fine.  

[highside]

I would agree that bikes are getting more difficult to maintain.  But that is the cost that we pay for higher fuel milage, more power, longer lasting, etc.

In most cases bikes today arent much different to work on. What specifically is more difficult for you today than in the past? All I know is that they break down a hell of a lot less and last a hell of a lot longer they are faster and get better mileage. It is easy to make a case for bikes improving by leaps and bounds, really hard to make one that they are getting worse without resorting to intangibles.

[stromgal]

While I'm as guilty as anyone of nostalgia --why the heck else would I look at ebay ads for XS650s, of which I've owned three --  I'll say it again: this is the golden age of motorcycling. The quality, value, and reliability of today's bikes is unprecedented.

[hobbner]

Do you think we will ever have 'hybrid' bikes? or fuel cell bikes, the raw grease and gasoline aspect of motorbiking is half the fun but on the other hand, torque and acceleration would be incredible! on a electric drive bike.
I just hope bikes never run into legislative trouble as cars become more and more protective of there passengers and automatic and dont forget all the pollution yadda ya.

[Thor]

I would say yes.  The bikes are getting better and that is bad.  I look at the evolution of the Corvette.  The modern Corvette has gotten so "good" that an above average driver cannot control the car during aggressive driving without the active handling turned on.  At some track days you are kicked out if you are caught with your active handling off and not approved and in the expert group.

Modern motorcycles don't start to protest and give you many clues as you near the edge.  Fortunately, most of us don't get close to the edge that often.  What it does seem to do is let you develop bad habits and ride faster than you should.  You could be very near the edge and have no idea.

Older bikes would let you know they aren't happy.  The flexi-frame and forks would start to twist, the rear shocks would start to shimmy and you would slow down.

I just updated my clapped out suspension and I am suspicious of my bike.  It is very, very subtle with its warnings.  You have to be concentrating and really trying to feel it.  I'm worried that the new suspension will increase my confidence and take me places I don't really know how to go.  The problem is that I won't get much warning before things start going sideways.

I'm going to start my season riding roads where I know exactly how fast I have gone in the past to see if I start to unknowingly get closer to the edge.  I'm going to keep an eye on my tires and take note of how much I am or am not tearing them up.

The false sense of security modern bikes give me worries me, but there are so many things I like about them it would be hard to go back.

[maddjack]

As far as reliability ,better say I.looks,subjective to the current taste of a given individual.Mileage? Way worse,displacement and horsepower doesn't come cheap but its bad when my car does as well or better than many sportbikes with a 1000 or better pound weight penalty.handling,better but don't forget without advances in tire tech,it may not be the case. fuel injection is moving foreward quickly,but there are still some of those that need mucho work . Chains need to go away,outdated tech,yeah it works but there are alternatives out there that don't require the maintenance of chains.

[FiremanBob]

maddjack makes a good point. In the US we have powerful sportbikes, touring bikes, muscle bikes, and hybrids in between, all making more power than we need for everyday riding and use more gas. We have cruisers, some of which are economical but most not too practical - too heavy, too low and weak on storage space. There are a couple of ancient-technology baby bikes. There are a couple of large scooters that would otherwise be good mid-size utility bikes, but scooters have very limited appeal.

For everyday commuting, I'd like to revive the UJM with modern technology and quality, in a moderate engine size like 300-500cc, with belt or (better) shaft drive. Shaft wouldn't need to be heavy with modern steel in an aluminum swingarm. They already have bikes almost like this in Japan.

A comfortable, great-handling, partly-faired, easy-maintenance bike with room for a passenger and useful saddlebags would be a terrific alternative to a car for commuting and general errands use. My bike gets nearly twice the mileage of my car, and a bike that got 1.5x again greater mileage would be in my garage right quick.

[Baz]

Better, no doubt in my mind.

I restored a 1983 Honda VF 45, and really never rode it, because my clunky, buzzy new Bandit made it seem like a piece of junk. (And lets face it, the B-12 is not exactly a modern work of art either)

I have ridden a couple of other classic old bikes since and came to the conclusion that the only person who thinks classic old bikes are cool, are the ones that don't have to ride them on a regular basis. (Everyone but the owners!)

I don't know of anyone who can give an example per say, that a late 80's Gixxer is better than the newest model. I just can't think of any bike where this is the case.

[MOVFR]

Overall bikes are getting better. They function better, they are more reliable, they perform better, they have better safety features, they emit cleaner exhaust and so on and so forth. They might be more complicated to work on but they need less work too. A complicated and sophisticated bike is only a problem if it malfunctions which in my experience is rarely the case these days.
So yeah, bikes are getting better  

[ruffcut]

   I remember sitting at the kitchen table with my dad discussing that new fangled electric starter for lazy people. Just a few years later they took the points and condenser away and I worried what a guy was to do when it shut off along the road. Next they start into the tubeless era and spokes disappear. I think that`s about the time they moved all of the shifters to the left side. Right after that Triumph croaked and they took the beloved amal carb with them. They had a primer button you flooded your carb with and got your hand smelling like sunoco 220. Now they`re taking the whole carb.
There is no doubt in my mind theyre getting better      

[Corbeau]

I own a 6th generation Honda VFR.

Things are staying the same. And the same. And the same.  

[DaveG]

they are way better than what i had 20 years ago but they need not be so complex
that's why i bought an 02 Bandit
old style easy to work on, no liquid cooling (ok oil cooled)
not the latest frame and suspension but 1000% better than my 73 CB450

and reliable

[Hardware]

I own a 6th generation Honda VFR.

Things are staying the same. And the same. And the same.  

I remember a moto rag article a few years back where the writer opined that it was his job to find things wrong with new bikes - something, anything!  

I forget which generation of VFR it was but in reviewing it, he said the only thing he could bitch about was the font Honda used on the gauge faces...

Bikes have come lightyears in terms of:

- reliability;
- power;
- refinement; and
- versatility (no doubt in part due to the aftermarket (i.e. Givi, Corbin et al)).

Value - tough call.  There are quite a few models pushing 20K+ - is a new base model Goldwing worth $26,000 CDN?  Not sure...

Looks.  Sadly I think many lines are going in the wrong direction.  (That means YOU - BMW!)

[hobbner]

im still waiting for a bike with a 'easy' button for when times get tougher than you want to deal with.

[Corbeau]

I see your point, Hardware. But mine was a reference that Vifferati biotch about Honda not upgrading the VFR (more displacement or less weight, pick one) for the last 3, 4 years.