Councourse or Sprint St?

[vfrider2000]

What do ya think?

[Capirex]

Connie

[MadOzodi]

If you have any interest at all in doing the occassional track day and can only own one bike, Sprint.

If you have no interest at all in doing the occassional track day and want warp drive to be able to swallow long distances in a single chew, C14.

[cognosticator]

Connie, maybe because I have one  

But I would love to have a Speed Triple to take to the mountains  

[Justin]

What do ya think?

I think you have enough posts to see the marketplace now...

[drbenjamin]

Sprint. Definitely the Sprint, and make it a GT.

 

[motormike]

What do ya think?

What's the question, which bike has the most gadgets?

[loadedmind]

I just finished test-riding both these bikes from a demo day event last weekend in Atlanta.  I rode the Concours first (in Alpharetta), then met up with a guy in the parking lot at that event on a KLR.  Told him how I would have rather test-ridden the Sprint when he told me they were doing the demo rides in Kennesaw, so I high-tailed it over there and test rode the Sprint.

First, my impressions with the Concours:

I really wanted to like this bike more.  It has a more upright position.  The engine is definitely a de-tuned one off the ZX-14.  What I was most disappointed over was the lag from start.  I'd say until you're at 3500+RPM, you're going to feel how the engine bogs.  I just couldn't believe how bad it was and that Kawasaki wouldn't do something from factory to resolve this.  The other thing was the cornering characteristics.  I'd bet a more rounded tire would help, but I felt like you REALLY had to force her into a turn.  About the only positive thing I could say about the Concours is the comfort of the stock seat and the bags.  I really didn't care for how it started, didn't like the key fob thing and not fond of the windshield.  I played with the up and down of the shield to try and offset the wind, but no luck.  I'm 6'3" with a 32" inseam and sport an Arai Vector helmet, if that helps.  Honestly, you could probably fix the engine lag with a Power Commander.  The tires could probably resolve the cornering issues.  I just shouldn't have to spend this extra money to resolve what I feel Kawasaki should have from factory.  Overall, unimpressed.

Next, the Sprint:

First, I noticed power was way different from the Concours.  No 1st gear lag; power/response seemed smooth throughout the RPM/gears.  The riding position is much more leaned over and the windshield appears to be a typical sportbike-length shield so you won't get much wind protection from it.  I found that if you use your legs more to grip the tank on the Sprint and not apply too much pressure on the handlebars, you won't have issues with wrist/hand numbness over longer rides and I'm sure an addon such as handlebar risers would help this immensely.  Cornering on the Sprint is almost telepathic.  Seriously.  You look toward the turn and it feels like the bike is one step ahead of you, already leaning in that direction.  Simply awesome.  The one I rode didn't have bags, but I can't believe that weight would've effected cornering much, if any.  It just feels like this bike just wants to go, all the time.  I was quite impressed with it.  You'd definitely want to think about the riding position though.  

Best advice I can give is, get on both of them and don't just get on and get back off.  Stay on it for at least a couple of minutes and see what you think.  Perhaps you could convince them to let you take it for a test ride if you're serious enough about buying one.  

It's too bad, really, because I consider myself a follower of Kawasaki and was really wishing for a better experience with the Concours.  She just felt more portly than the Triumph, by a lot.

[cognosticator]

First, my impressions with the Concours:

I really wanted to like this bike more.  It has a more upright position.  The engine is definitely a de-tuned one off the ZX-14.  What I was most disappointed over was the lag from start.  I'd say until you're at 3500+RPM, you're going to feel how the engine bogs.  

Yep, too bad you have to pull the secondary butterflies to wake the bike up.  I bet if you rode mine you would think differently.  Flies out, PCv, custom map, Muzzy slip on, dynoed at 150 rwhp and 97 lbft torque

[Squidlius]

What do ya think?

In all honesty I think that's comparing apples to oranges. The Sprint ST is closer to an FZ1 or Ninja 1000. The Connie is closer to an FJR, Honda ST or Sprint GT.

.

[DNA]

I've done the valve check on the new connie...

Sprint.

Why do these companies insist on making machines that suck donkey ballz to maintain?  

On my older sprint I had to remove the cams to adjust the valves.  I can not imaging the Connie is worse than that.

Not sure your justification makes sense.

[Thunderbox]

Yep, too bad you have to pull the secondary butterflies to wake the bike up.  I bet if you rode mine you would think differently.  Flies out, PCv, custom map, Muzzy slip on, dynoed at 150 rwhp and 97 lbft torque

So how much does that cost.  Big consideration if you buy a bike and have to get work done on it from new.  Kinda like buying a Harley.

[Squidlius]

So how much does that cost.  Big consideration if you buy a bike and have to get work done on it from new.  Kinda like buying a Harley.

...or a GenII FZ1.

.

[cognosticator]

So how much does that cost.  Big consideration if you buy a bike and have to get work done on it from new.  Kinda like buying a Harley.

You don't have to do anything to the bike, but I haven't owned a bike yet I didn't farkleize the crap out of it, trying to make it faster, more comfortable etc

[Cablebandit]

Pulling the flies costs you about 7 minutes of your time.  What you do over and above that is up to you.

[JSharp]

In all honesty I think that's comparing apples to oranges. The Sprint ST is closer to an FZ1 or Ninja 1000. The Connie is closer to an FJR, Honda ST or Sprint GT.

.

+1

A Sprint, either an ST or or possibly a GT were 2 of the bikes I thought I might be interested in before I bought my Ninja. But I never rode either because the closest Triumph dealer is over 100 miles away. Compared to Kawasaki stores where there are 10 within 75 miles...

That may not be a big deal to someone but it was to me.

[wlselph]

Pardon my ignorance but what does "remove the flies" refer too? Thanks.

[loadedmind]

Secondary Butterfly valves.  The idea behind it is that Kawi (and other vendors) keep them closed until a certain RPM is reached or in 6th gear.  By removing them altogether and outfitting with an ECU modder such as a Power Commander, you gain significant performance.

[BamaBiker]

Why do these companies insist on making machines that suck donkey ballz to maintain?  

+1

[falconati]

It would be tough for me.  I think the Sprint is the better choice for me; however I couldn't get comfortable on the bike in the showroom.  Maybe the ergos are better on the new GT....I haven't tried it yet.

[Capirex]

This thread was originally a troll by the OP in an attempt to get the necessary number of posts to see the classifieds.  Since you guys are now taking it seriously I'd like to change my answer.  

[Squidlius]

Secondary Butterfly valves.  The idea behind it is that Kawi (and other vendors) keep them closed until a certain RPM is reached or in 6th gear.  By removing them altogether and outfitting with an ECU modder such as a Power Commander, you gain significant performance.

I know many, if not most disagree but by removing the secondary throttle plates, the performance gains often come at the expense of ridability if you're super picky about your throttle response. Smaller/different shaped secondary throttle plates are the way to go if you want the performance gain and still maintain your seemless smooth throttle response. On some bikes if you have big intake passages on the throttle bodies and no secondary plates, you have to be careful not to whack the throttle open too far too fast at lower RPMs or you can "drown" the engine with too much fuel/air causing a bog.  

[CrazyRider]

...or a GenII FZ1.

.

Frankly, keep your opinion to yourself about the FZ1  . Yours was perhaps a lemon ... no offense ..

[XLR8]

I know many, if not most disagree but by removing the secondary throttle plates, the performance gains often come at the expense of ridability if you're super picky about your throttle response. Smaller/different shaped secondary throttle plates are the way to go if you want the performance gain and still maintain your seemless smooth throttle response. On some bikes if you have big intake passages on the throttle bodies and no secondary plates, you have to be careful not to whack the throttle open too far too fast at lower RPMs or you can "drown" the engine with too much fuel/air causing a bog.  

Agree.  

Having just recently purchased a C14, I think the bike has plenty of power and can't imagine why I'd want to "remove my flies". Someone mentioned lag.    This isn't drag bike and it's designed to get the rider, passenger and full side cases off the line in a reasonable manner. Perhaps this is what you were feeling.

[Cablebandit]

I know many, if not most disagree but by removing the secondary throttle plates, the performance gains often come at the expense of ridability if you're super picky about your throttle response. Smaller/different shaped secondary throttle plates are the way to go if you want the performance gain and still maintain your seemless smooth throttle response. On some bikes if you have big intake passages on the throttle bodies and no secondary plates, you have to be careful not to whack the throttle open too far too fast at lower RPMs or you can "drown" the engine with too much fuel/air causing a bog.  

I guess I'm one of the many.    Removing the secondaries make the bike much more ridable at lower RPM.  Especially with a passenger.  

Oh, for the record my throttle response is silky smooth as well.  If you are bogging the engine by whacking the throttle I think your bike has bigger issues.  The only thing that happens when you whack the throttle is the front wheel may lift some.

[evilted]

If you're planning to ride 2-up frequently, or spend a lot of time on the interstate, the C14 may be a better choice.

Otherwise, there's very little not to like about the Sprint ST after you sort out the suspension (Showa 49C damper rod) and fix the spongy front brake lever issue (drop in 6-pot Tokicos sourced from a wrecked Hayabusa).  The factory headlamps are less than stellar if you plan to ride at night a lot, but some fork tube mounted aux lighting would probably enhance your ability to see into turns (never mounted any myself).

The 1050 may not post the peak HP figures of a C14 mill, but it's a very, very good "little" motor.  Plenty of torque from 3 or 4K north, just roll-on and go.  Excellent fuel economy while touring (50 MPG for me if the odometer can be believed), valves always in spec every time they were checked, best factory fueling of any FI bike I've owned (most miles with the stock can & stock map).

Plus Sprint STs are available for dirt cheap.  I only sold mine because I got a deal on an MTS1200.

[cornercarver]

I know many, if not most disagree but by removing the secondary throttle plates, the performance gains often come at the expense of ridability if you're super picky about your throttle response. Smaller/different shaped secondary throttle plates are the way to go if you want the performance gain and still maintain your seemless smooth throttle response. On some bikes if you have big intake passages on the throttle bodies and no secondary plates, you have to be careful not to whack the throttle open too far too fast at lower RPMs or you can "drown" the engine with too much fuel/air causing a bog.  

Just had my ecu for my 2011 connie remapped by Joe at dynotronics. The flies stay in as they should. They are opened up a lot sooner with the remap. He also changes the timing and air fuel for your set up. I have a Vance and Hines cs1 and kn air filter. Just went on a test ride 2ND gear wheelie with no effort.

[greench440]

There's no "e" in Concours

[Cablebandit]

There's no "e" in Concours

Well it's not the only misinformation in the thread.