New CB1000R on the dyno

[atadaskew]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/6/1036/4/Motorcycle-Blog-Post/Honda-CB1000R-Horsepower-and-Torque-Dyno.aspx
 
108hp?
Really?
 
Kawi's Z1000 makes about 125.
Same for Yam FZ1
 
Honda's own CBR1000RR makes 155.  Why should this bike make 33% less power than that?
 
Don't the Vtwin liquid cooled nekkid bikes from Ducati, Aprilia and KTM also make a lot more than the CB1000?
 
What is this, 1995?

[Mookie]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/6/1036/4/Motorcycle-Blog-Post/Honda-CB1000R-Horsepower-and-Torque-Dyno.aspx
 
108hp?
Really?
 
Kawi's Z1000 makes about 125.
Same for Yam FZ1
 
Honda's own CBR1000RR makes 155.  Why should this bike make 33% less power than that?
 
Don't the Vtwin liquid cooled nekkid bikes from Ducati, Aprilia and KTM also make a lot more than the CB1000?
 
What is this, 1995?

Wow.  I'm not one to dismiss a bike that's been "detuned" but taking something that did make near 160 HP, bringing it down to 108 and STILL only has 64 ft/lbs seems criminal.  Yeah it's a pretty flat torque curve and it really kicks in early but still, that's kinda sad.

[stromgal]

Well, everyone knows you'll die if you try to take a nekkid bike over 100 mph!!1!

[Cvergi01]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/6/1036/4/Motorcycle-Blog-Post/Honda-CB1000R-Horsepower-and-Torque-Dyno.aspx
 
 
What is this, 1995?

LOL, my 95 RF900 made 130 or so stock

[1KPerDay]

LOL, my 95 RF900 made 130 or so stock

Reallllllllyyy.....

[Cvergi01]

or



http://www.motorbikes.be/en/Suzuki_RF_900_RS2_1996.aspx

[atadaskew]

LOL, my 95 RF900 made 130 or so stock

Ok, maybe I shoulda said "What, is this 1985?"

 

[2DFlyer]

I'll take the torque curve if that's the trade off.  It looks more like the speed triple curve which is an absolute hoot to ride but Triumph did manage to squeeze another 20 ponies out of the 1050.  So will anyone riding within reasonable street limits ever notice it being down on power compared to other rides?

[Mookie]

I'll take the torque curve if that's the trade off.  It looks more like the speed triple curve which is an absolute hoot to ride but Triumph did manage to squeeze another 20 ponies out of the 1050.  So will anyone riding within reasonable street limits ever notice it being down on power compared to other rides?

I imagine you'd notice if you've ever ridden a CBR1000RR - it doesn't have a torque curve quite that flat but it's not exactly a slouch (78 lb/ft).

[DogBoy]

Well, everyone knows you'll die if you try to take a nekkid bike over 100 mph!!1!

Troof!

[mike in oregon]

Hmm.  The 2007 Triumph Speed Triple I used to own made about the exact hp and torque.  With and arrow exhaust and factory tune this brings it up to 120 rwhp and 70 ft.lbs at the rwl.  I imagine similar potential with a pipe and fi flash for the cb1000r.  Main difference is the torque comes full steam at 3 grand for the Speed 3 vs 5 grand for the Honda.  

I think the honda looks a lot better than the Kawasaki.  What I'd really like is a naked cross-plane engined naked fz1!

[miles]

Well, everyone knows you'll die if you try to take a nekkid bike over 100 mph!!1!

Yup.  It's true- it has happened to me hundreds of times.

[2DFlyer]

What I'd really like is a naked cross-plane engined naked fz1!

 Now right there could be a winner if Yamaha came up with styling to match the sound of that motor  

[Giaka]

Z1000 > CB1000R

[gritsngravy]

Which one of you Stat Sheet Commandos are actually in the market for a naked bike?  

[mike in oregon]

Busted!  I spent my tax refund on a new wood stove and install.  No new naked for me.  Instead, I'll just join in with comments and stats and  .....

[Mookie]

If Honda had come up with something significantly better than my Superduke I'd be all over it.  Instead they've come up with a significantly heavier, less powerful, and frankly, not as attractive bike.  I'm sure it's still a hoot to ride but I'd rather buy a rashed CBR1000RR and make a real streetfighter.

The new Tuono on the other hand sounds awesome.  Unfortunately it's going to be $$$$.  Woe is me, I'll stick the the SD for another year.  

[2DFlyer]

Which one of you Stat Sheet Commandos are actually in the market for a naked bike?  

In the market as in cash in fist ready to pull the trigger or in the market as in always locked and loaded just in case?  I'm content with what I've got for now but I'm always looking for the next one.

[atadaskew]

An interesting comparison:

Honda CB1000R - 107hp, 485lbs, $11K

Ducati Monster 1100 EVO - 95hp (rear wheel est), 373lbs, $12K

For $1K more the Duc includes ABS brakes and traction control.

The Honda may make 10 more hp, but it weighs over 100 lbs more!

[Roadscum]

An interesting comparison:

Honda CB1000R - 107hp, 485lbs, $11K

Ducati Monster 1100 EVO - 95hp (rear wheel est), 373lbs, $12K

For $1K more the Duc includes ABS brakes and traction control.

The Honda may make 10 more hp, but it weighs over 100 lbs more!

The maintenance cost of the Ducati will far surpass that of the Honda and I suspect the Honda will be a more comfy ride. Just trying to be fair and balanced.

[gritsngravy]

In the market as in cash in fist ready to pull the trigger or in the market as in always locked and loaded just in case?  I'm content with what I've got for now but I'm always looking for the next one.

I'm just curious to see if anyone is actually interested in this class of bike considering the poor sales history in the U.S.     I actually feel the so called naked class is actually 'normal', all the plastic covered machines are the odd balls to me.   Funny thing is, virtually all Japanese bikes were "naked" in the 70's and folks rode 'em everywhere with just a smile for protection.   Good times.

[atadaskew]

The maintenance cost of the Ducati will far surpass that of the Honda and I suspect the Honda will be a more comfy ride. Just trying to be fair and balanced.

Would you use the same argument if a Toyota Camry and a BMW 328 cost the same?

 

All kidding aside, this does highlight the serious lack of fire that the CB1000R brings to the table.  There is no flippin way an aircooled twin cyclinder bike should be able to match it performance wise.
This is another sad example of neutering a fine motor.  Or maybe the reality is the spine frame on the Honda cannot handle more motor?

[gritsngravy]

Before you need oxygen for that tall horse you're riding do yourself a favor and research the reviews and road tests in the European press.   The bike is anything but a neutered dog.   Ride more, stat less.  


http://www.visordown.com/road-tests/real-world-superbikes-honda-cb1000r-v-kawasaki-z1000/13369.html


http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/single_bike_tests_articles/archive/test_2009_honda_cb1000r


http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/287/our-tests-honda-cb1000r-free-spirit

[atadaskew]

Losing almost 33% of the hp is neutering.  On top of gaining about 100lbs vs the CBR100RRR.

Of course it is a nice ride.  It just coulda been a wikkid ride.

You have a Bking.  You think that bike would be anywhere near as neat if Suzuki did the same thing to the motor?  Be honest.

[Mookie]

Losing almost 33% of the hp is neutering.  On top of gaining about 100lbs vs the CBR100RRR.

Of course it is a nice ride.  It just coulda been a wikkid ride.

You have a Bking.  You think that bike would be anywhere near as neat if Suzuki did the same thing to the motor?  Be honest.

Well, it was originally supposed to be a supercharged Busa engine so maybe he likes that sort of neutering.*  


*Tongue in cheek mostly

[gritsngravy]

Read this test:   http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/honda-cb1000r-uk-road-test-review/9798.html#historysub


The writer discusses your very concerns and compares the Honda to a Monster and it's ummmm ..qualities.  

While the BKing uses the same 2nd Gen busa motor it puts out less peak horsepower than the Busa because the King has a slightly smaller, non ram air airbox(yes those giant scoops are for styling only)  and the undertail exhaust has less volume and is more restrictive.    The King is insanely strong on the bottom and it gets to be gloriously unusable on top.    I would be disappointed if the King weren't as strong as it is because it was designed to be Suzuki's naked flagship.   The crazy exhaust covers alone tell you this thing is gonna be over the top, all 570 wet pounds of it.    Waay different beast than the Honda......the honda is a useful all-round rider with more than enough poke to get the job done.....again read the reviews.  


Now you know I like Honda's but for me the cb1000r is just too damn small for me.....I needed something that would make my ass look small.     Besides, at 7999 how could I pass up all that size and speed.  

[atadaskew]

Read this test:   http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/honda-cb1000r-uk-road-test-review/9798.html#historysub


The writer discusses your very concerns and compares the Honda to a Monster and it's ummmm ..qualities.  

  

Yes, he complains the V-twins are too exciting.  And that is before the latest Monster EVO:

It might not pack the excitement of a Tuono or Monster, but it’s far easier to live with than a V-twin. I know bikes are all about having fun, character and that kind of thing, but for many riders, myself included, they are also a means of daily transport. I couldn’t use a Tuono or Monster day to day, they would drive me mad with their aggressive throttle response and power delivery.

I'm not saying the CB1000R is not 'nice'.  The rider goes on to say how nice and pleasant it is.  It is easy to make a heavy bike feel like it is manageable when it does not have too much power to move it along.

In the link you provided comparing it to the Kawi, the writer mentioned how much faster the Kawi was.  I guess my problem is that I would like more of what the donor engine had to offer before it was clipped.  Instead Honda built a nicer Bandit.

[gritsngravy]

I think the OP would be better served with a stat I mean class leading liter bike.    

[atadaskew]

I think the OP would be better served with a stat I mean class leading liter bike.    

Why would the OP be better served with that when Kawi and Yam make similar bikes to the CB, except lighter and with 20 more hp?

The OP actually much prefers the way the CB is styled, he's just disappointed that the potential has been so muted.

 

[gritsngravy]

Question is,  after all you BS you've been spilling about the cb1000r , are you even in the market for a naked bike?   Best stick to the 3 wheeler and  enjoy the beach.  

[atadaskew]

Question is,  after all you BS you've been spilling about the cb1000r , are you even in the market for a naked bike?   Best stick to the 3 wheeler and  enjoy the beach.  

What BS, exactly?  The fact that Yam and Kaw make equivalents that are much lighter and much more powerful?
Or the fact that an air cooled Ducati Monster equals it?

Yeah the magazine testers said what is great about the CB1000 is that you can wring it out and not get in trouble.  You can do the same with an SV650.
It's a polite way of saying it's not very quick.

All Honda had to do is not lop off 40 hp from the donor motor.
Really.

C'mon, who here if given the choice of a CB1000 with 110 hp or 150 hp would pick the 110 hp version?

And yes thank you, I am enjoying the beach.  
 

[gritsngravy]

It's all BS until you've actually ridden the thing.  I've passed to many so called superior bikes in the mountains on my VFR to put much stock in peak hp numbers.  Real world difference between the z1000 & cb1000r are gonna be minimal.  I'd suggest a bking to a power hounds but a guy like you would soil himself then cry just looking at size at weight statistics!   Good luck finding something that meets your needs.    If you actually are gonna buy something bring that bad beast to nor cal and lets take a ride.      

[falconati]

I always like it when a BKing owner tries to take others to task on their motorcycle preferences  

[2DFlyer]

I'm just curious to see if anyone is actually interested in this class of bike considering the poor sales history in the U.S.     I actually feel the so called naked class is actually 'normal', all the plastic covered machines are the odd balls to me.   Funny thing is, virtually all Japanese bikes were "naked" in the 70's and folks rode 'em everywhere with just a smile for protection.   Good times.

I think there's still enough of us around to make the mfg think about it.  I like that the nekked class makes the mfg work twice as hard on packaging.  The only faired bikes I've owned are purpose built ST.  I'll own another at some point but till then just about everything on the short list bares all.  I say that but the Ninja 1000 is looking pretty good...

[atadaskew]

 If you actually are gonna buy something bring that bad beast to nor cal and lets take a ride.      

I can't make myself unload any of the bikes I currently have to make room in the garage for another one.  Unless that 'other' one lights my fire.  The CB could have if Honda didn't make it a worse performer than their 10 year old 919... Progression, eh?

But, next time I'm up there on one of my motos I'll definitely drop you a line cuz the Gold Country is  

[gritsngravy]

I always like it when a BKing owner tries to take others to task on their motorcycle preferences  

What???  Oh my God!! you are riding a what??  Oh no that won't do, ya gotta ride something like mine!!!  

[Strog]

Let me get this straight, a scooter is plenty for cross country trips but 108HP is underpowered?  




I guess I'm lucky my poor little SV gets across town.  

[atadaskew]

Let me get this straight, a scooter is plenty for cross country trips but 108HP is underpowered?  

Let's face the facts, you could walk across country...

[Strog]

Let's face the facts, you could walk across country...

Now you are saying my SV will break down and I have to push it across country??? That 108HP bike sounds pretty nice now.  

[atadaskew]

Now you are saying my SV will break down and I have to push it across country??? That 108HP bike sounds pretty nice now.  

Hey now, I did not even suggest that!

All kidding aside, this smacks exactly of the same stuff as when Honda brought out their 919.  Compared to its rivals it was underpowered.
And here we are, again, where Honda brings out a nekkid liter bike that not only weighs 150 lbs more than their own CBr600, but makes the same hp...
Yeah it has more torque butt still..
Why is it that they don't look at what other mfgs are doing in the same class and think that they should kick their butts?
Aprilia's latest V4 Streetfighter is meant to be insane, judging by the eraly test reports.  And it is meant to sticker at $15K.
Yeah, that's more than the Honda, but it provides cutting spec chassis/suspension and motor.

The Honda is just a pretender in this field.  Again.  And again there is absolutely no reason that this should be so.

[Strog]

Hey now, I did not even suggest that!

Of course you didn't.  

I generally agree with most of your thoughts on where Honda has been going over the years. It seems like there's a committee designing their bikes. They pull from two or three different directions and don't seem to quite hit any mark.

When I was a senior in high school, Honda introduced a bike that caught my attention. It was the ST1100. The other bikes at the time didn't seem to quite stack up. From that point on, it seemed like to me that Honda was taking less and less chances and the other manufacturers were taking a few risks here and there.  I'd still like a nice used ST1100 but the ST1300 turns me off.   The VFR1200 seems to take shots at the VFR800 and ST1300 and missing both completely.

The CB1000R (finally back ontopic) seems to be closest to the FZ8. The HP is basically the same but the CB is 11 pounds heavier dry than the FZ ready to go with a full tank of gas (claimed numbers on both).  Despite the compromises on both of these bikes, I'd still like to see some success so we can see some more naked options in the future.  

[atadaskew]

Maybe, ok, I am, superficial but I saw a metallic red CB1000R in Austria.
And that looked so flippin' killer...

[2DFlyer]

Hey now, I did not even suggest that!

All kidding aside, this smacks exactly of the same stuff as when Honda brought out their 919.  Compared to its rivals it was underpowered.
And here we are, again, where Honda brings out a nekkid liter bike that not only weighs 150 lbs more than their own CBr600, but makes the same hp...
Yeah it has more torque butt still..
Why is it that they don't look at what other mfgs are doing in the same class and think that they should kick their butts?
Aprilia's latest V4 Streetfighter is meant to be insane, judging by the eraly test reports.  And it is meant to sticker at $15K.
Yeah, that's more than the Honda, but it provides cutting spec chassis/suspension and motor.

The Honda is just a pretender in this field.  Again.  And again there is absolutely no reason that this should be so.

I'm just wondering now.  It's too late to do the homework, but my car nut brother tells me the 3 series Beemer won't win any spec sheet wars yet the total package provides one of the best driving experiences at it's price point.  So if you adhere to the view that Honda is an engineering company that makes vehicles, might it be they develop their products for the more discriminating enthusiast?  

[atadaskew]

I'm just wondering now.  It's too late to do the homework, but my car nut brother tells me the 3 series Beemer won't win any spec sheet wars yet the total package provides one of the best driving experiences at it's price point.  So if you adhere to the view that Honda is an engineering company that makes vehicles, might it be they develop their products for the more discriminating enthusiast?  

Akshully the 3 series Bimmer w/ sport package (I had a 2006 330i) has fantastic brakes, really great handling.  Better than anything in it's class.

The 335i out now smokes all it's competition with it's turbo motor.  Sub 5 seconds zero-60 etc etc.

I see the point you're trying to make.  But at least for me they lost a sale by watering the product down so much.  Maybe I'm the only one disappointed that with the 1000cc motor it is outperformed by their old 919?

Ya think the Triumph Speed and Street triples would have got the following they have if they had bland motors?  Same market.

Anyway, I'm out of this one.  Nice bike.  Shame about the lack of kick.