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Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC!
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Topic: Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC! (Read 801 times)
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kevin_stevens
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Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC!
«
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April 15, 2011, 11:32:00 PM »
Note: this is a repost of a review I did in June, 2009. The original was eaten by the forum monsters. -- KeS
Last week I got a private message from a marketing exec at American Honda, asking if I'd be interested in coming to Santa Barbara for a demo ride on the new VFR1200F. They were presenting the bikes, both manual and the not-yet-released DCT dual-clutch model, to the professional journalists earlier in the week, and thought it would be a good idea to bring in a representative audience of bloggers and related motorcycle forum moderators to get the end-user perspective.
"Um, ok!" I replied immediately, "But you should know that I'm not a blogger, not a moderator (on ST.N anyway), and can't imagine ever buying this bike. Plus I just dropped $25K on bikes in the last six months, I couldn't be more OUT of the market."
"No problem!", was the response. "Come out here and we'll change your mind!"
Well, not being a journalist, I don't have any annoying journalistic standards or ethics to get in the way, so I said "Um, ok!" again, and in no time a set of plane tickets was in my hands to fly up from San Diego on Friday, do the technical presentation and dinner that night, and then take a 2 hour ride on Saturday.
Santa Barbara terminal waiting area (not kidding)
I shuttled to the hotel with another rider (the helmet bag is a dead giveaway) named Keith, and we strolled upstairs to collect drinks, make introductions, and learn about the VFR. I never found out exactly what the criteria was for extending the invitations; there were a dozen enthusiasts from around the country, some affiliated with Honda and VFR rider groups, and a few like myself who don't have a Honda at all. The number was limited because there are only two of the DCT auto-shift bikes in the country; so they had two regular shift VFRs as well, and set up three shifts of four riders each.
Nice digs!
And nice non-Honda wheels!
We had an hour or so of technical presentation, covering the VFR in general, but then focusing quite a bit on the DCT clutch. For those who haven't been following the press; this is a double-clutch arrangement for push-button shifting, not a torque-converter type of automatic drive. It is very similar to the paddle-shift mechanisms becoming popular in sports cars, with the main work for Honda to design the components small enough to work in a bike without significant size/weight penalties. The basic operation is that the clutch pack is split into two independent units with separate hydraulic controls and clamping. One clutch is connected to gears 1-3-5, the other to 2-4-6, so as one engages the other disengages in a smooth transition. There's some supplemental engineering required to handle the hydraulics, as well as the user interface and computer controls, but that's the essence of the design. The DCT model is due for release at the end of June in the USA, with a price premium of $1500 over the manual VFR, which lists at $16K.
After the briefing, we broke apart into several tables for an excellent dinner, admixed with discussion with all the Honda participants, some from the design team, R&D, accessories, as well as the demo team. Lots of useful dialogue, they were open and interested in other bikes and designs (lunch the next day focused on the Rossi accident and H-D's retirement of the Buell line). One tidbit I gleaned was that the 2008 CBR1000RR oil-burning issue was intentional, that there was a design decision made in Japan that simply never got communicated even within Honda, much less to the end customer. Interesting insight into how the sausage gets made.
(continued...)
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Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 12:34:56 AM by kevin_stevens
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Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC!
«
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April 15, 2011, 11:32:00 PM »
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kevin_stevens
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Re: Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC! (repost)
«
Reply #1 on:
April 15, 2011, 11:32:48 PM »
I was scheduled on the first "flight" the next day, meeting up at 8:30 after breakfast to be photographed, interviewed, waivered; have our safety and trip instruction, and then a checkout on the DCT operation. We were to ride one model outbound on our 90+ minute trip, and then at the turnaround switch out so everyone got an opportunity to compare both bikes.
It's Like Crispness!
Here's where the biggest hiccup of the weekend occurred. Keith, the rider who shuttled in with me, had come all the way from Atlanta, with reroutes in Dallas, lost luggage, all the normal travel travails. Somewhere in the process, he lost his driver's license. Despite all appeal to common sense, truth, and the American way, Honda's lawyers wouldn't accept the risk that perhaps *this* Keith wasn't the Keith that was duly licensed, TSAed, and documented as having ridden for decades. No tickee, no laundry. Keith got a nice two-day vacation in Santa Barbara with no VFR ride. It'll be interesting to see if he ever makes it home...
Notice Keith isn't allowed to actually TOUCH the controls!!
That mishap reconciled, the rest of us waved to Keith as we left the trailer behind, following the lead of the Gold Wing pace bike. He half-heartedly waved back with one finger, and we were off!
I was happy that I drew the standard shift VFR first, so I could get used to the bike before concentrating on the DTC on the return trip. First impressions; yes, the horn button is in an odd place, swapped with the usual turn signal button. So they ARE competing with BMW for obligatory weird controls! Control surfaces are great; smooth hydraulic brake and clutch, easy adjustment of levers at the first stop; mirrors work well up to 8K or so and adjust properly. One of the big points Honda makes about the seating is how narrow the bike is at the tank - true statement, it is narrow and I was able to flat-foot the bike easily (not usually a problem for me anyway). However, the bodywork down below towards the pegs does actually taper outwards, so I found myself splayed out more than I expected, with a mild "watermelon seed" effect when I would try to squeeze the tank under braking. There's a nice tank lip to catch your leg, but it's pretty high up there, even if you're hanging off. The overall seating position is quite comfortable, however.
Hourglass figure!
The transmission shifted ok, a little heavy but very smooth with clutched upshifts, and a tad reluctant on roll-off clutchless upshifts, but not clunky. The brakes were actually firmer than on most Hondas I've ridden and felt fine. The brakes are linked from the rear pedal only, with two of the front twelve (!!) pistons actuating, and the others controlled exclusively by the front lever. That seems appropriate for a bike with the weight distribution and wheelbase of the VFR, particularly with a passenger. I was not able, in our staggered formation, to get into ABS, so no report there.
The engine was interesting. My recent rides are a ZX-14 and an S1000RR, so power and torque per se don't really impress me much; the engine seemed fine in that regard, but nothing unusual. But it had three distinct "personalities" throughout the rev range. It started to pull smoothly at 2500 rpm, and from there to 3500 was "ST mode" - almost silent, smooth thrust for gliding around. 3500-6000 was the sport range for those of us who feel overgeared running around in 6th at 40mph. I think I would ride the bike primarily in this range; it delivers full torque here with a little more rasp and snarl to it. Unfortunately, as I've seen in other reports, there is a noticeable vibration point right at 4500rpm, starting at 4k and over by 5k, that is really intrusive. It doesn't show in the mirrors, but it really vibrates the tank/seat junction, and you can feel it a bit in the engine response. Above 6K the bike pulls strongly but not especially enthusiastically to a moderate 10,500 redline; which there's no particular reason to chase. The engine feels like almost the total opposite of the VTEC VFR800, ironically. One other point about the engine response - it's snatchy on sudden throttle rolls, especially at low rpm. I thought this was a product of the new ride-by-wire throttle, but later one of the other riders said that has always been the case for the VFRs. It wasn't awful by any means, in fact before the end of the ride I'd already adapted to it. Just one of those first impression things that go away after you've had the bike a week. The shaft drive worked very well, there was none of the snatchiness in the transmission or final drive, and I couldn't induce any noticeable jacking effect with throttle rolls over bumps or any other gymnastics.
Suspension was... there. Understand that on these demo rides there isn't an opportunity to set the bike up for each rider, and at my considerable heft that's often important. But the Honda only has preload and rebound damping adjustments at each end, which seems a very odd choice, considering that BMW is touting electronically adjustable spring rate as well as damping and preload adjustment on-the-fly. The rear hydraulic preload adjuster is a nice touch, however. For me, the bike probably needed a bit more preload, and it definitely needed more damping, probably of both rebound and compression. It was relatively plush, but somewhat numb, and secondary-highway bumps would oscillate both ends of the bike a couple of times - actually a mild wallow if you were leaned over. I hate to judge it too harshly without an opportunity to dial it in, however; it's entirely possible that a few clicks would change it to very impressive. I seemed to be the only one who wasn't enthusiastic about the suspension, though.
The route gave us a really good mix of roads, from some in-town stop-and-go traffic, up onto a main divided highway with some faster sweeping turns, then onto a two-lane backroad with some definite bumps and second-gear twisties. We'd been notified of the usual demo rules, "If it feels fun don't do it!", but actually our Gold Wing escort did a good job of giving us some opportunity to stretch the group out and single-line some of the more interesting bits. I got the best position right behind the Wing, and there was an ST1300 camera bike swooping in and out at various times.
There were definitely some inadvertent horn beeps on the way out as we worked through town with lots of turn signal use! The Honda guys had assured us that they'd all done it as well, just a matter of acclimation, but I still snickered to myself as I heard the beeps from up and down the line behind me. We broke out of town into the sunshine as we headed up the hills, drawing considerable attention from other motorists and motorcyclists! I played with the engine here, shifting up and down extensively to gain the engine impressions. Apart from the horn button, the bike is almost immediately comfortable and familiar - there's very little of looking around for instrument features or gauges, or fumbling for controls. While I've ridden a lot of bikes, I rarely just get on a bike and feel at home, and I did on the VFR. The cockpit feels close and compact without being small; it's not a huge structure like a ZX-14 or K1300GT, or an instrument panel like a Wing. The fans did kick on fairly often when tooling around town, kind of surprisingly considering how cool (low sixties) and damp it was. They are not especially muted or disguised, just typical noisy sport bike fans. Heat control seemed quite good with no obvious hot spots. There was also an odd whirring noise from the left side of the engine on trailing throttle deceleration; it wasn't annoying and didn't seem to be part of the engine itself, more like some accessory pump or generator.
We worked our way onto the secondary road, and finished the first half of the route with 2-3 miles of typical back country roads. When the opportunity came to move the bike around a little, the handling and basic chassis performance was quite good. Obviously in a ride like this we weren't actually hanging off the bike, and it's not really that kind of bike anyway, but I always try to shift my weight and head to the inside, even in normal highway turns, and the bike was responsive to weight shifts; it wasn't just inert as a Gold Wing or ST1300 would be. Even though I was having the suspension issues mentioned previously, they didn't throw the bike off line, and the right/left roll rate was quite quick, with the front and rear moving very well together, rather than the front wheel "dragging" the rear into the turn. Interestingly, we had been briefed on the accessory tail trunk being designed to move side-side some 15mm to add some momentum when leaning into the turn, so this is clearly an area where Honda spent some time and attention. The bike didn't stand up under braking or show other handling anomalies.
Super Inertial Response System trunk. Other manufacturers just... bolt theirs down.
And it's big enough to hold a helmet!
After stopping in a dirt parking lot, I was pleased to watch our ride leader muscle the bikes back around so we could head out forward. That's the kind of customer service I like to see, and it is only unfortunate that the tail case isn't big enough to hold a Honda rep on the production bikes! They also sent our Wing escort ahead a mile or so, along with the photographer, and decided to send us out at five-second intervals so we could get "action shots".
(continued)
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Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 12:24:46 AM by kevin_stevens
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kevin_stevens
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Re: Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC! (repost)
«
Reply #2 on:
April 15, 2011, 11:33:04 PM »
Now I got to throw my leg over the DCT bike for the first time. Wait, where's the clutch!?! Hang on, there's no shift lever! How do I go from manual to auto mode again??? Release the *parking brake*?!?! I'm first out, and they're flagging me to GO! Screw it, turn the throttle and go - it's not MY bike!
One of these things is not like the other.
And it all worked perfectly. The revs came up and the bike left aggressively, exactly as it would if I'd been slipping the clutch myself. At about 1/3 throttle, the bike upshifted smoothly at 4500rpm, and stayed there in second as I worked up through the first of the switchbacks. Heading downhill now, the bike freewheeling a bit in second for the 30mph turn - oh yeah, the downshift button. Tap it and move smoothly into first, throw my shoulder into the turn and come out with the revs climbing. What happened to the auto mode? Oh, right, by choosing the downshift I took control, it's manual shift now. Pull the button in on the front of the left control housing, up to second, then third, then back down just to get the hang of it. Sweet!
You can just see the downshift button at the bottom, upshift in front
Now I see the photo corner coming up; drop down to first and get some revs on again, slide forward on the tank and to the inside, and by golly, there *is* enough of a ledge to grab my leg! Very nice. The escort bike appears ahead, parked on the shoulder, and when I stop the VFR goes back down to first automagically, even though I'm still in "manual". No pushing the downshift button five times. Handy!
Action shot!
Oops, wrong bike!!
Here we go...
The rest of the trip back was spent playing with the DCT. The shifts themselves are very, very good; upshifts are positive without being jerky; downshifts are slightly longer, just as if you were trailing the clutch out yourself as you rev-matched. If you leave the bike in Drive, the gear choices are very passive-aggressive, bumping you up to sixth gear by 30mph or so. The VFR will pull from there if you insist, but I'm just not comfortable trundling around like that, so I used the Sport setting almost exclusively. In this mode the bike shifts, well, almost like I would under most conditions. It's more aggressive when more throttle is used, holding the revs longer; and upshifts more quickly when you are just slabbing along. The biggest condition in which I felt the need to intervene was, predictably, when I needed to add a little engine braking, to prepare for an upcoming turn, or just slow down a bit to avoid overrunning the Gold Wing. The bike has no way of anticipating these events, of course. Next model, maybe!
The drive mode would show up in the middle of the LCD where that blob is if the engine had been running when I took the picture.
Sneak preview of next gen VFR!
Ok, maybe not so much.
So the "downshift" button became the "engine brake" button - I actually started thinking of it that way. I'd be riding along in automatic Sport mode, see an upcoming situation where I wanted to be in a lower gear, and push "downshift". Then I'd do button-press upshifts and downshifts until whatever the situation was resolved itself and I was cruising again, and I'd hit the right hand trigger to revert to automatic mode. It became intuitive *very* rapidly, and I'm sure I'd ride the bike this way 90% of the time. The upshifting in Sport mode is accurate enough that I don't see the need for manual control the majority of the time. What Honda *really* got right in all this wizardry is that when you drop out of manual mode into automatic, the bike doesn't instantly upshift you two or three times in an annoying manner. Especially in Sport mode, it stays with what gear you were in, almost as if it had monitored your manual shifting patterns and adapted to them. I wouldn't be surprised if it does. And now the horn/turn signal button transposition makes total sense; your left thumb is controlling the downshifts, and the turn signals are right above it instead of having to reach over a horn button to use them. Why Honda didn't change the controls only on the DCT bike - I dunno. Why I still managed to honk the horn accidentally on the LAST turn of the ride - I dunno! I bet everyone else snickered.
The route back took us through some suburban streets next to a golf course, and I had a chance to play with Sport vs Drive auto modes a bit. Where Drive would dump me unceremoniously into sixth at 35mph, with the engine barely ticking over below 2000 rpm; Sport would stop at fourth, with a reasonable 2500 or so. Also, if you whacked the throttle from there, Drive would tend to hold sixth and chug on up, while Sport would bang a quick downshift or two - again just like I would. I'm leaving Drive for the pure interstate stretches; even in commute traffic I think I'd want more aggressive shifting. It would be interesting to see a MPG comparison between the two, though.
Back in town and wending our way toward the resort, there was enough stop and go to play with the behavior of DCT at a stop. Basically, it starts to engage at 1200 rpm off of a 1000 rpm idle. But it is extremely controllable - if you sit at idle you can roll the bike back and forth with no effort (that's the reason for the parking brake). If you want to hold yourself on a mild incline, you can just roll the throttle very slightly, and pick up some engine drive; just like slipping a clutch manually. Moving the bike forward a few inches to talk to another rider while stopped, no lurches, no trepidation about throttle control, no need to load the throttle against the brake; it really is just like using clutch control would be. This is another area that could have been really bad, especially for a bike like the VFR that will see a certain amount of fiddling around in parking lots. It works great.
I hopped back off the bike at the Honda trailer, and went through a quick video interview and then a more extensive debrief. They seemed surprised at the amount of comments; "Most of the journalists don't tell us anything!" was a common plaint. After a great lunch on the terrace, most of the remaining riders headed off for the second and third flights while I grabbed another slice of cheesecake and sorted my impressions.
So, where does the VFR "fit"? That was the question going in: is it a new, bigger VFR? Is it a competitor for the K1300S? K1300GT? FJR? Concours 14?
Typically for Honda, the answer is "none of the above". Honda specializes in niche-buster bikes; from the original VFR changing the sport bike class, to the Gold Wing creating a new class; they do what they think is right and let the chips fall where they may. This bike's identity didn't coalesce for me until I pulled out on the DCT model. As soon as I did, it became clear that this was how the bike was intended to work. Like a convertible car that was originally designed as a coupe, the manual transmission version feels unresolved, uncertain of purpose and execution. You don't grasp the point of the design exercise. DCT transforms the VFR. The multiple-personality engine now makes sense - it lugs you around automatically at low revs in Drive mode; Sport mode works through the midrange, and if you're exploring the rev limiter you're probably shifting manually anyway. Buying this bike without DCT is like buying a S1000RR without the ABS and traction control - it works just fine, but you're missing the point of the bike. But with DCT, the question becomes moot; absurd. There *is* no "class" here, there's only the VFR, and DCT defines it in a way that the FJR AE never has. It is likely to drive your purchase decision beyond all other considerations; if you don't like DCT, you probably won't like the bike. If you do, you will find a way to work around other issues.
Why Honda released the DCT model three months after the manual, I don't know. What you have to do to get a demo ride, I don't know. What I do know is that if you are in the market for a mid-size sport-touring bike, you need to ride this bike, with DCT, before you buy anything. If it works for you, it's absolutely unique, and you need to try it to know whether or not it works for you. I went into this evaluation with little to no interest in DCT, and it completely dominated my perception of the bike. Great job, Honda!
KeS
Thanks to American Honda for bringing me up to ride their wonderful bikes, and to my little iPhone for taking all the pics when I left my real camera at home!
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Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 12:33:08 AM by kevin_stevens
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Re: Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC!
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Reply #3 on:
April 16, 2011, 10:15:38 AM »
Nice review, Kevin. Thanks!
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Dave
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Re: Ride Review - VFR1200F, now with DTC!
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Reply #4 on:
April 17, 2011, 06:10:47 AM »
Great write up. Thanks for reposting.
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