ABS as Standard Equipment for All 2012 BMW's

[Rincewind]

Anticipating new EU regulations which may require all street bikes to have ABS, BMW has voluntarily made all of their bikes ABS equipped as Standard.

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/04/19/bmw-makes-abs-standard-on-all-2012-motorcycles/

[bomber]

I like the ABS on my bike (mostly) but I'd like ABS to either be an option, or defeatable.

This is not good news, IMO. Choices are good.

[scottzilla]

ABS is so non intrusive at this point it's silly to even argue about it.

[Rincewind]

ABS is so non intrusive at this point it's silly to even argue about it.

It's not non-intrusive to the bottomline price of the bike.  

[scottzilla]

It's not non-intrusive to the bottomline price of the bike.  

That's bullshit.  EVERYTHING costs money.  The auto industry crys about everything, yet all of the mandated junk they must add to cars over the years (Airbags, for example) have been added with minimal cost to the consumer.
ABS has gotten less and less expensive and the more it is used the cheaper it will get.  For every example you see of a company adding a grand to the price of an ABS equipped bike another company makes it standard on theirs.
 

[bomber]

That's bullshit.  EVERYTHING costs money.  The auto industry crys about everything, yet all of the mandated junk they must add to cars over the years (Airbags, for example) have been added with minimal cost to the consumer.
ABS has gotten less and less expensive and the more it is used the cheaper it will get.  For every example you see of a company adding a grand to the price of an ABS equipped bike another company makes it standard on theirs.
  

You bet it's less expensive as it becomes more common and mature -- which doesn't mean it doesn't impact the price, as you say . . . . . minimal cast on a per item basis adds up . . . .

[Snowbird]

That's bullshit.  EVERYTHING costs money.  The auto industry crys about everything, yet all of the mandated junk they must add to cars over the years (Airbags, for example) have been added with minimal cost to the consumer.ABS has gotten less and less expensive and the more it is used the cheaper it will get.  For every example you see of a company adding a grand to the price of an ABS equipped bike another company makes it standard on theirs.
  

Now, that is b.s.  

[scottzilla]

You bet it's less expensive as it becomes more common and mature -- which doesn't mean it doesn't impact the price, as you say . . . . . minimal cast on a per item basis adds up . . . .

You're joking?  
SEATBELTS add to the cost of an automobile.  Duh.  You are making a pretty dumb point Bomber.

[scottzilla]

Now, that is b.s.  

Your record of proving people wrong is horendous so I won't even ask.

Without using google, the federal gov't told the automakers they must add airbags to all cars by a certain year.  The automakers cried and talked the gov't in to extending the date an additional 2-3 years because they couldn't afford it.  Remember those horrible automatic seat belts?  Those are the resulting compromise the federal gov't and auto makers came up with.
2-3 years later airbags start appearing in all cars.  The cost, LIKE ALL COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE NORMAL OPERATION OF RUNNING ANY BUSINESS was absorbed and became part of the expense associated with runing said business.
You people aren't naive enough to think corporations pass savings on the the consuner are you??  Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Do you know what the airlines industrys response to the FAA's procedure to run jets with more fuel in light of the recent TWA800 explosion off the coast of LI was??
WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!

[county]

Only dinosaurs are crying about ABS, face it, a bike without ABS is like a bike without brakes.  

Why don't you dinosaurs start a movement to bring back the kick starter while you are at it.

[Croak]

Well, the Luddites can prove they got some use out of a kickstarter.

[stevent]

the power assisted abs on R1150 RT's stunk, I didn't care for it too much. The abs on my GT and GS and even the FLHT I had is totally invisible untill you really drop the anchor, then the bike stops straight and true, no muss no fuss. I doubt I'd own a non abs vehicle around here car or bike. It rains too much not to have it if it's available.    

[Snowbird]

Your record of proving people wrong is horendous so I won't even ask.

 

And there are two "r"s in horrendous.

[scottzilla]

 

And there are two "r"s in horrendous.

Auto spell.
That's your retort, huh?  Point out one misspelled word?  
Pathetic dude.

[mugwump58]

See what happens when you disable your ABS spell check? Think of the children

[Thunderbox]

It's not non-intrusive to the bottomline price of the bike.  

That may be true but you still have choice.  Buy or not buy.  Plus any person with a little knowledge will be able to deactivate any ABS system.

[Rincewind]

That may be true but you still have choice.  Buy or not buy.  Plus any person with a little knowledge will be able to deactivate any ABS system.

A choice for now, but in 2-3 years I expect other companies to take up the flag and offer only ABS models.  IIRC, Honda said 10-years ago that they expected their whole range to be ABS by now (didn't happen yet).  I would bet that Ducati will be the next in line for universal ABS.

[cbsnbiker]

I like ABS. It's fine by me.  

[Lon]

Anticipating new EU regulations which may require all street bikes to have ABS, BMW has voluntarily made all of their bikes ABS equipped as Standard.

Last time I bought a BMW, it was because it had ABS.

One thing though... where's ABS going to "fit in" on a G450X ?  Enduro racers certainly don't want the weight; will this make the G450X less competitive?

[Roadscum]

Only dinosaurs are crying about ABS, face it, a bike without ABS is like a bike without brakes.  

Why don't you dinosaurs start a movement to bring back the kick starter while you are at it.

Thruth is a good rider can stop quicker without ABS then can be done with ABS during an urgent stop. Then there's the situation where there's a little sand or gravel in the road,  a good rider can stop a lot quicker without ABS. ABS is a crutch for those without good riding skills. check oiut some of the reviews in the magizine where they test stopping distance with ABS then with ABS you'lll see what I'm talking about. The difference on the Ducati MS was dramatic.  

Sure  the government always knows what's best for us. Next it will be seat belts on our bikes. More choice and less government mandates are a good thing don't ya think??    

NO name calling please.

 Regards, Paul

[cbsnbiker]

Last time I bought a BMW, it was because it had ABS.

One thing though... where's ABS going to "fit in" on a G450X ?  Enduro racers certainly don't want the weight; will this make the G450X less competitive?

Does anyone campaign the G450X?

Perhaps there will be a "delete" option?

[cbsnbiker]

Thruth is a good rider can stop quicker without ABS then can be done with ABS during an urgent stop. Then there's the situation where there's a little sand or gravel in the road,  a good rider can stop a lot quicker without ABS. ABS is a crutch for those without good riding skills. check oiut some of the reviews in the magizine where they test stopping distance with ABS then with ABS you'lll see what I'm talking about. The difference on the Ducati MS was dramatic.  

This has been pretty much debunked, at least as far as street riding is concerned, and it's been rehashed many times on this board and others.

[Roadscum]

This has been pretty much debunked, at least as far as street riding is concerned, and it's been rehashed many times on this board and others.

Sure it has, hell I read it on the internet, it's gotta be true!      

As in any sport if ya want to be good ya gotta practice. How many of the internet experts spend time practing their stopping skills? Most seem to only  practice throttle skills and keyboard skills.

Motorcycle Consumer News Vol #41 Issue # 9, September 2010, page 15. Ducati MS stopping distance 60-0: with ABS 158.0', without ABS 114.3'.

I want to make the decision on ABS and not have it mandated by the government. How about you??


Regards, Paul

[miles]

A recent Bike magazine story covered a comparison between ABS on vs. ABS off on a few different bikes.
Riders were test riders for the magazine.
Test was done by having them stop from 70 mph with ABS on or off. Distances were compared. Test was done in dry conditions on clean asphalt.

Prior to revealing the results the riders were asked whether they thought they had stopped in a shorter distance with ABS or without. While some riders were convinced they had stopped faster without ABS, none were actually able to so.

BMW S1000RR 55.65m vs 51.43m
Ducati Multistrada 67.57m vs 64.96m
Honda VFR1200 56.65m vs 54.8m
Kawasaki 1400GTR 66.4m vs 60.97m
Suzuki GSX1250FA 60.09m vs 56.13m

These are "real world numbers". A similar test in the wet would likely lead to even larger differences in stopping distance.

Since the test riders were experienced on a large variety of bikes in a number of different riding conditions from dirt to road to track, their maximum effort non-ABS braking is likely better than most (or any) new rider would be able to manage.

[cbsnbiker]

Sure it has, hell I read it on the internet, it's gotta be true!      

As in any sport if ya want to be good ya gotta practice. How many of the internet experts spend time practing their stopping skills? Most seem to only  practice throttle skills and keyboard skills.

Motorcycle Consumer News Vol #41 Issue # 9, September 2010, page 15. Ducati MS stopping distance 60-0: with ABS 158.0', without ABS 114.3'.

I want to make the decision on ABS and not have it mandated by the government. How about you??


Regards, Paul

MCN is not a credible source of information.

Besides, even if true, that anecdote merely shows some sort of anomaly with that one individual bike, or at worst that one model. One example does not necessarily hold for all cases.

I do not care either way what the government says about ABS (and note that this is coming out of the EU, not the U.S.). I like it. Two of my bikes are so equipped. It is unlikely that I will ever buy a future bike without ABS, unless it's a vintage bike.

Are you offended that street bikes are mandated to be equipped with headlights, or speedometers?  

As for practicing riding skills, I can't speak for others, but it's part of what I do for a living. I teach people to ride. I have to be able to demonstrate the skills for them. If for no other reason than that, I practice my skills constantly.

How about you?

[miles]

May 09 Cycle World:

[Roadscum]

MCN is not a credible source of information.

Besides, even if true, that anecdote merely shows some sort of anomaly with that one individual bike, or at worst that one model. One example does not necessarily hold for all cases.

I do not care either way what the government says about ABS (and note that this is coming out of the EU, not the U.S.). I like it. Two of my bikes are so equipped. It is unlikely that I will ever buy a future bike without ABS, unless it's a vintage bike.

Are you offended that street bikes are mandated to be equipped with headlights, or speedometers?  

As for practicing riding skills, I can't speak for others, but it's part of what I do for a living. I teach people to ride. I have to be able to demonstrate the skills for them. If for no other reason than that, I practice my skills constantly.

How about you?

I was a MSF instructor/ rider coach for several years, retired now, enjoying the road. I do take the Experienced
Rider training every 2-3 years to keep my skills current and do practcve my riding skills in vacant parking lots. Every year I log about 25K miles on the road. Never needed to rely on ABS to save my arse on the road or on the track.

Headlight, only if riding after sunset.
Speedometer, no, speed limits yes.
Turn signals no, requirement to signal intent, yes.

I purchased my F800S because it did not have ABS, same for the Guzzi Sport, no ABS on the Scramble but I do wish it had a kick start!! . My K11RS does have ABS and I have owned several others with ABS('96 R11RT, '04 K11RS, '06 FJR......).

EU = government, US soon to follow. What ever happened to freedom of choice!!!

How do you feel about government mandates?? Will you support air bags on motorcycles as a reguirement?? Ya know it's coming.  

Regards, Paul

[cbsnbiker]

I like having ABS. It's there, just in case I need it. I also wear a full-face helmet and full riding gear, just in case I need it. Etc.

I've never triggered the front ABS, except intentionally when practicing my skills. But it's there if I ever need it.

I triggered my rear ABS once in a maximum braking situation, when avoiding hitting a deer that jumped in front of me. I probably could have handled the situation without it, but it made my life easier in that situation. I'm glad it was there when I could use it.

My opinion on air bags on motorcycles as a mandate? I haven't a clue. I'll see what it's like if and when it happens.

I don't view the government as automatically being the enemy. Among other things, it's a check and balance against other forces in our lives, such as big business.

[coho]

I want to make the decision on ABS and not have it mandated by the government. How about you??

It isn't being mandated by any government, EU or US.  Also, dirtbikes and race bikes don't seem to be involved.
In this instance BMW chose to make ABS standard across the entire line.

From the OP:

Anticipating new EU regulations which may require all street bikes to have ABS, BMW has voluntarily made all of their bikes ABS equipped as Standard.

[st2sam]

Paul, I understand what your trying to say and I agree.  
My current bike has ABS because IMO I think it will help me better controll the bike in certain situations, conditions..

However, it was my choice to decide if I wanted to spend the extra $900.00 for ABS and I like it that way.  

[Roadscum]

I don't view the government as automatically being the enemy. Among other things, it's a check and balance against other forces in our lives, such as big business.

You'll have to help me better understand this. I've read our Constitution many times and can't recall where it grants that power to our government. Can you refer me to that paragraph??

I thought consumers were the check and balances of big business,  am I wrong?? Seems to me big business and unions have way to much influence on our government today........ As always, YMMV!

As for added technology on our motorcycles, the mfgs(read big business) like the mandates to add more, it allows them to increase the price and the profits. In this situation government is not protecting us, it is aiding big business and eroding our power to be a check and balance.

It's a beautiful day here in south Florida, I think I'll take my low tech Triumph Scrambler out and enjoy the straight, flat roads.   Of all the many bikes that I've owned this thing puts the biggest smile on my face. There is very little between me and the machine to get in the way of this  simple pleasure. .  

Regards, Paul

[Roadscum]

Paul, I understand what your trying to say and I agree.  
My current bike has ABS because IMO I think it will help me better controll the bike in certain situations, conditions..

However, it was my choice to decide if I wanted to spend the extra $900.00 for ABS and I like it that way.  

As it should be!    

Regards, Paul

[cbsnbiker]

You'll have to help me better understand this. I've read our Constitution many times and can't recall where it grants that power to our government. Can you refer me to that paragraph??

That's a practical effect of its existence. Without government, what check or balance would there be on business, or oligarchs, etc.? For that matter, would we even have a society at all, or would we be more like Somalia?

I thought consumers were the check and balances of big business,  am I wrong??

If you believe that they are the only one, you are wrong.

 Seems to me big business and unions have way to much influence on our government today........ As always, YMMV!

Speaking as a union member, I can say that you are wrong. If anything, they do not have enough power and influence. Exhibit A: deaths in recent years in various mines. Exhibit B: air traffic controllers asleep on the job due to substandard work conditions (remember that Reagan busted the union decades ago). Exhibit C: ... well, I can go on for pages.

As for added technology on our motorcycles, the mfgs(read big business) like the mandates to add more, it allows them to increase the price and the profits. In this situation government is not protecting us, it is aiding big business and eroding our power to be a check and balance.

That statement is at odds with what often actually occurs.

Remember when government implemented regulations for safety features in cars such as airbags? The car companies moaned and complained about it. Now we have those safety systems in our cars. They've saved the lives of a few people I know.   Etc.

It's a beautiful day here in south Florida, I think I'll take my low tech Triumph Scrambler out and enjoy the straight, flat roads.   Of all the many bikes that I've owned this thing puts the biggest smile on my face. There is very little between me and the machine to get in the way of this  simple pleasure. .  

Regards, Paul

It's dark and dank and rainy around here. It's just as well, since I don't have time to go for a ride until next week. But if I were out right now, at least I know I'd have ABS as a backup system if needed in an emergency braking situation in less-than-ideal braking conditions. I probably wouldn't engage ABS, but that's the beauty of backup systems: they're invisible until needed.

[Roadscum]

cbsnbiker.... I hope the sun soon shines on you. It sounds like you really reallly really need to get out for a ride!  

I hope we can agree to disagree on the roll of government, big business, and we the people. Remember the power of our $$$$, it does count, maybe more then our vote.

Regards, Paul

[Thunderbox]

You will always have some degree of choice.  Even if they mandate ABS.  Buy or not buy, or buy and disable.  You still have choices.  You may not like the choices but don't ever blame someone else because you no longer have a CHOICE.