VFR 1200 test rides

[keepergale]

I went into a north county multiline/Honda dealer yesterday and sat on the VFR1200f. The sales guy walked up made token sale pitches and then said I am welcome to demo the bike if I like. I ask him what the deal was and he said Honda is giving them incentives to give test rides. What they wanted from me is some written feedback on the bike after the demo ride. In any case it sounds like test rides are there for the asking if you are interested. They have both models available to ride. I am going back Tuesday. I am happy to tell them my impressions as well as suggesting a larger tank and a smaller msrp.

[aks801]

A dealer here in town offered up a test ride on the DCT model.  I'm not interested in the DCT, but will take them up on riding the bike so I can get a feel for the bike as a whole.

[Rincewind]

Interesting, I'd love to try one.  I had not heard there was a demo-ride promo happening, thanks.

[garry]

I saw my first one in the flesh, er metal, last night when buying some tires. It was sitting there next to a DN700. Lots of styling similarities (none of which I liked). Threw a leg over the 1200. Meh. Nothing about the bike clicked for me. I didn't actively dislike anything, it was just another bike. I guess I can say the red sparkly paint looked nice. I would have loved to taken a test ride to see what it's like on the road, because that is what really matters.

The little 250 looked kinda cool and it's similar to the 1200 in style. Don't know why it worked OK for me on the little bike but not the big one. The CBR1000RR is the only street bike in the  Honda lineup that appeals to me these days.

[Pete Roper]

Simply because I'm an 'Auto Nutter' when it comes to bikes, (Hate 'em in cars, OK, I know. I'm strange OK.) I took one of the 'Autos' out for a flog today and posted up a comparison on the AF1 Mana board. To save linking I'll just C&P it below.

*******************************************************************************************

OK, just to 'Set the scene' and allow people to make their own decisions about how objective I'm being.

I'm 54 years old and have been actively involved in the motorcycle industry for over thirty years. While I'm a fanatical flag waver for Guzzi I have no particular 'brand loyalty' and strongly believe that hwat may be a 'Great Bike' for one person may be a complete anaethma for others. I'm also wealthy enough to have any damn motorbike, or combination of motorbikes, I please. So cost is NOT a factor I *have* to take into account when considering a purchase.

All I ask is that those facts are taken into account when reading this comparison.

The test ride I took was around my usual 'loop' I do when taking out a bike from a shop in Canberra. About 15 Km of 'Traffic' 60km of two lane, some of it pretty rough, and about 18Km of freeway.

OK The VFR.

First impressions. It's BIG and it's UGLY. How heavy is it? No idea but it certainly looks and feels heavier than the Mana. OK, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so that IS a subjective observation but it is enormously fat and 'Slab Sided' and to me it all looks 'Wrong'.

Sitting astride it the whole dashboard/handlebar/switchgear area looks horribly 'Busy'. There are two LCD screens, one either side of the tacho. One does speed and fuel. The other one does engine temperature, 'Mode' and a couple of other things, Odo probably, didn't look too hard? there is no clutch lever or gear change lever in the 'Conventional' position. Selecting gears, (And unlike the Mana they are *real* gears is done with buttons on the LH switchblock. Unlike the Mana though they aren't at the same height. One is on the top front and the other is on the lower rear part of the switchblock. They didn't fall easily to my fingers and the rest of the switchblock also seemed to be festooned with far too many, small, buttons for horn and dipswitch and indicators. Perhaps its familiarity but the Mana system seems far more intuitive and simple.

Right hand swichblock has starter button and a toggle switch for the 'Modes' but you can switch between Auto and Manual with yet another switch on the front of the block. once again it seemed overly busy and complex. I'm sure i could get used to it but the Mana system was so simple it just "worked' from the first time I rode one.

Motor.

Like all VFR's the motor is a gem. Power is turbine like and linear the only real thing you can say is that it is too powerfull for a 'road' bike. I gave it a quick squirt on the freeway and 228KPH came up 'Just like that'. That is twice the legal limit and if I'd been booked I would of spent 3 months in gaol. Just stupid. In 'Drive' mode it also gets into 6th very quickly and you will find it is a bit vibratory s once in sixth it doesn't seem to like to leave it unless you really give it the berries!!!!

Driveline.

this to me was the most disappointing thing. I was expecting it to be 'Honda-Civilized', ie, almost boring. In fact it isn't. It fely very harsh and clunky. In all honesty compared to the E-CVT in the Mana it felt unsophisticated and 'Mechanical'. There is also a lot of driveline lash when it changes gears in the lower ratios. My Griso only makes a bit more clonk and its a sodding great uncivilized oil-cooled twin with 270/450 firing intervals!

Ergonomics.

More like a 'sports' bike with clip-ons and a much more 'Dog shagging a hockeyball' riding position. No, not RSV-4 territory but more 'Sport' than 'Touring'. As I previously said the controls are non-intuitive, to me at least and the whole cockpit looks fussy and confused. The Mana's far simpler set-up works just as well and to my minimallist mind looks better too!

Brakes.

Linked with both front and rear working off both lever and pedal although with different proportioning. I prefer independent brakes with no anti-lock. But that's me. What else can I say? they are modern Nissins and work great.

Handling? hard to tell on such a short ride but the ful adjustability of the suspension would indicate that it will work a lot better than the Mana's once dialed in. It seems to steer quicker too. Rear spring on this, non-adjusted, run was far too stiff. Needed less preload.

Looks and finish.

It's butt-ugly. The Mana is no oil painting but it looks like Beyonce Knowles next to the Honda's Mr.T!!!!! Honda's finish is, needless to say, very good.

Would I buy one? No. Not instead of the Mana. For what I do the Mana is a much nicer and more pleasant machine to ride IN MY OPINION!!!!! I really don't know where the market is for the VFR??? It's not a 'Sports' bike. Both the Fartblood and even the VFR 'Conventional' fill that niche. Neither is it a full blown 'Tourer' Honda have that covered admirably in the ST 1400.

So who'd buy it? Well in Canberra the two people who have both have dicky ankles and can't change gear and there is one other bloke who is very interested who only has one arm.

it's certainly an enigmatic bike. I just can't for the life of me work out how it will ever be a success though. The Mana has a very clearly defined 'Niche'. I can't see the Honda having anything similar.

it's not by any stretch of the imagination a 'Bad' bike. in fact I think its a fantastic bike. I just think that the Mana is much better. Really!!!!!

Pete

PS I took some pics but I'll have to upload 'em to flickr before I can post 'em up.
__________________

[Coro Kid]

Well, it was originally supposed to be a Blackbird sport-tourer replacement, then Honda Marketing got stung by criticism and said it wasn't and used some weasel words because the touring set criticised its range and the Blackbird set said it was ugly and the range was far less than a 'bird.  As you said, it's a well-built bike, but in search of a market niche.  Trouble is, there are already better bikes serving well-defined niches.

I'm a 63 year old ex-Blackbird owner who spent several years waiting for the replacement 'bird.  Disappointed, underwhelmed and now to be completely different, ride a Street Triple which I love to bits!

Cheers,

Geoff
New Zealand

[GTS_Rider]

Motor.

Like all VFR's the motor is a gem. Power is turbine like and linear the only real thing you can say is that it is too powerfull for a 'road' bike...

Eh, wot? Too powerful?

No such thing...

[Pete Roper]

Eh, wot? Too powerful?

No such thing...

Well done! What an original response. So why aren't you on something really stupid at track days or racing? The VFR will never be a track bike. You want really mega-stupid track performance try an RSV-4 Aprilia with the basic 'Race' kit. It's about the size and weight of a marmoset, has top of the range *everything* and produces 130+ RWHP. Get it *Wrong* with one of them and it'll kill you before you know its happened. 'More Power' is the mantra of fuquetards who can't ride. Golden elephant stamp to you Sir!!!!

Pete

[Roadscum]

Thanks for the objective review Peter. I agree with you on the power thing..... it's more fun to attempt to ride a slow bike fast then to have to ride a fast bike slow. Anyone can twist to WOT on a straight road us all that HP but what a bore. I've heard it said that those who can never have to much  HP have not yet come to grip with the size of their penis. Note sure if that's true though..

I've ridden a mana for a few days while my 1200 Sport was in for repair. What a hoot!!!!
If there was a Aprilia dealer near by I own one!!

Regards, PAul

[Bravo12]

They won't do demos here in Philly, no matter what Honda says. I'd love to demo one, but I'mhoping they have them at Americade next month; I think that will be my only chance. The local dealerships don't even have the CBR250R yet.

[GTS_Rider]

Well done! What an original response. So why aren't you on something really stupid at track days or racing? The VFR will never be a track bike. You want really mega-stupid track performance try an RSV-4 Aprilia with the basic 'Race' kit. It's about the size and weight of a marmoset, has top of the range *everything* and produces 130+ RWHP. Get it *Wrong* with one of them and it'll kill you before you know its happened. 'More Power' is the mantra of fuquetards who can't ride. Golden elephant stamp to you Sir!!!!

Pete

Jeez, take a chill pill ya fooking old curmudgeon. No need to get your panties all in a bunch. It's OK, I'll get off your lawn...

[Rogue]

Well done! What an original response. So why aren't you on something really stupid at track days or racing? The VFR will never be a track bike. You want really mega-stupid track performance try an RSV-4 Aprilia with the basic 'Race' kit. It's about the size and weight of a marmoset, has top of the range *everything* and produces 130+ RWHP. Get it *Wrong* with one of them and it'll kill you before you know its happened. 'More Power' is the mantra of fuquetards who can't ride. Golden elephant stamp to you Sir!!!!

Pete

Get it wrong on your 54 rwhp Mana and you can get killed too.  Have an open mind and accept the fact that others (like you) prefer lower horsepower, while others prefer more.  This is why they have 190 bhp sportsbike, which is very popular in Britain and the USA.  For someone who lives in Europe, with tons of high speed highways I'm surprised at your attitude towards speed and power.  

[Pete Roper]

Err. I don't live in Europe and don't have any 'Issue' with power but here in Oz 30KPH over the 100KPH limit sees you off the road for three months. 60 over and they take your licence off you on the spot impound your bike, and if a court sez you were in the company of another person and 'Street Racing' they'll crush it for you and make you pay for the privilege. The roads are also jam packed with festerheads who haven't the slightest idea of how their vehicles work or the road rules, even if they aren't texting, eating, yapping on a phone or updating their facebook page, (Yes, I've seen it being done!) while supposedly in 'Control' of their vehicle. These turds have also become 'Trained' to expect no vehicle to be doing more than 120 KPH and their brains explode and they do really stupid shit if they see someone, especially on a bike, travelling fast.

Having a machine that feels uncomfortable at 110 but feels great at 180 is pointless in my book. Oh, there are lots of them out there, most of them ridden by dingbats who travel everywhere at 110 KPH. What a stupid, uncomfortable, waste.

I love speed, I've built some quite successful race bikes in my time, but I'm also fond of life and need my licence for work. I'd never keep it if I had a bike like a VFR, (Although I'd be far more likely to have the RSV-4 which should have a shredder built into the top of the tank so when you get stopped you can just feed your licence into it!!! ) I have enough trouble keeping my ticket riding my 104 HP Griso with verve on the road and its a hundred times better 'Road' bike than the VFR!

I simply made a statement about a predictable and boring post. I wasn't trying to lecture anyone, simply expressing my boredom at such tedium. Dickheads who continually bleat on about how much power they have are also usually the ones with inch wide chicken strips on their tyres and pristine toes on their boots. I find suh people insufferable. Thassall

Pete

[GTS_Rider]

...I simply made a statement about a predictable and boring post. I wasn't trying to lecture anyone, simply expressing my boredom at such tedium. Dickheads who continually bleat on about how much power they have are also usually the ones with inch wide chicken strips on their tyres and pristine toes on their boots. I find suh people insufferable. Thassall

Pete

Of course it's predictable that someone would disagree with your blanket statement "Power is turbine like and linear the only real thing you can say is that it is too powerfull for a 'road' bike."

I mean first off, there's this thing called a throttle...maybe you're familiar with it? It sorta controls how much power you unleash in any particular time and space. So to say the 'engine' has 'too much' power is really kinda laughable, since it's the 'rider' that controls that bit.

Still, I get your situation there in Oz is really oppressive on speed control and a higher HP/or more importantly higher Torque bikes may not be of much use to you there in your home-land. Hey, I get it, you would be forced into continually lugging such a bike unless you just stuck to first or second gear most of the time...

I'm sorry for your personal situation of not being able to enjoy a higher hp bike, but that really is no reason to lash out at me. You speak of peoples brain exploding if you travel over a mere 120kph, really? that's just 75 mph, the average speed on LA freeways during the 4 hours a day they're not jammed with traffic and moving at 10-20mph.  

Otherwise we've got tons and tons of back-roads in California, and indeed all across the U.S. , where you can enjoy exploiting the full range of some of the higher HP bikes available on the market. That is with minimum chance you'd get caught, because all the leos are shooting fish in a barrel on the main hwys instead of the empty backroads.

But it's cool, if I were you, I'd be angry too...  


  






 

 

[Rogue]

I love speed, I've built some quite successful race bikes in my time, but I'm also fond of life and need my licence for work. I'd never keep it if I had a bike like a VFR, (Although I'd be far more likely to have the RSV-4 which should have a shredder built into the top of the tank so when you get stopped you can just feed your licence into it!!! )Pete

   That's funny.  Okay I get it you have a sense of humor.  

Sorry about the Europe thing....for some reason I was sure you were talking about Britain.  

GTS-Rider does have a bunch of "street cred" in this forum since many people have ridden with him.  Yes he has a ton of horsepower and enjoys all of it I"m sure.  He also has no chicken strips that I know of since he is very fast in the straights and in the twisties (and very lucky to still have his license!   )

[Rogue]

FYI....if you get caught doing over 100 mph in the USA, it's officer's discretion to either put you in jail and impound your bike, or get a reckless driving citation, or just a simple citation.  

Although we don't have Gatso's, the Highway Patrol routinely set up speed traps using radar.

There are a ton of backroads where you can really use a lot of power.  But you just never know if there is an LEO around.  That's what Radar Detectors are for!  

I have no idea what it's like in Oz.  It looks like the place also has a ton of wide open roads too.

[Pete Roper]

Of course it's predictable that someone would disagree with your blanket statement "Power is turbine like and linear the only real thing you can say is that it is too powerfull for a 'road' bike."

I mean first off, there's this thing called a throttle...maybe you're familiar with it? It sorta controls how much power you unleash in any particular time and space. So to say the 'engine' has 'too much' power is really kinda laughable, since it's the 'rider' that controls that bit.

Errr? if you can't use all the power available what's the point in having it apart from bragging rights?

Yes, there are many open roads where you can go fast in Oz. Most of 'em are dead straight and as boring as batshit. They also tend to be a LONG way away from where people live. I have my own little strips of road I can enjoy myself on, I'm not going to publicise them! Also, any ROAD that I tried to use something like an RSV-4 on wouldn't be safe enough for me, or other road users. I wonder how you'd feel if I came around a bend at 200+KPH and smacked into the side of a school bus carrying YOUR kiddies?

Sorry. I maintain that something like a VFR 1200 is not 'Fit For Purpose'. That's probably better than 'Too Powerful' but basically means the same.

Pete

[Rogue]

The moral of your point is, don't ride at 200 kph where there are school buses or others around you may hit.  

[Pete Roper]

The moral of your point is, don't ride at 200 kph where there are school buses or others around you may hit.  

Uh? like a public road!

Pete

[GTS_Rider]

Errr? if you can't use all the power available what's the point in having it apart from bragging rights?

Yes, there are many open roads where you can go fast in Oz. Most of 'em are dead straight and as boring as batshit. They also tend to be a LONG way away from where people live. I have my own little strips of road I can enjoy myself on, I'm not going to publicise them! Also, any ROAD that I tried to use something like an RSV-4 on wouldn't be safe enough for me, or other road users. I wonder how you'd feel if I came around a bend at 200+KPH and smacked into the side of a school bus carrying YOUR kiddies?

Sorry. I maintain that something like a VFR 1200 is not 'Fit For Purpose'. That's probably better than 'Too Powerful' but basically means the same.

Pete

Yeah, you're the one saying you can't use all the power available, then coming down hard on me when I disagree. It's not about braggng rights, it's about fun and versatility and safety.

Using all the power available doesn't mean you're running around at max hp/rpms/speed all the time. It might mean you set up the perfect entry speed on a perfect corner, and with the right sight-lines though the corner... you may figure it's safe to go wot on the exit since it was noted there's no oncoming cars and the road surface is near perfect with no sand or gravel. You're only running about 5k rpms as you wack the throttle on the exit, but just about when the road starts to straighten a bit past exit and your hitting 6-7k at that point, the front end starts to lift a bit from the power hit. You back down, with a silly grin, thinking to yourself "Hey I just used 'all the power available' just back then. That was freaking fun, I think I might try that again..."  

Funny you should mention 200kph, because that's my favorite spot for wide-open-road touring speed, where I can get away with it. Yeah, not really using 'all the power available' then, more just riding in my comfort zone. Of course these kinds of speeds are reserved for roads with nobody on them besides me within my sight range (could be 20 miles plus crossing some desert valleys...). For sure I won't be coming around a bend at 200kph, not for fear of your imaginary school bus where nobody lives, but for fear of the police outside of my sight-lines with instant-on radar.  

And yes, I believe it's safer to ride a bike with more power for an experienced rider. My reasoning is that in many cases of impending doom, you have three options to avoid it, plus multiple combinations of those. First best option is steering, but that's almost always combined with either braking or speeding up. If you have no significant power to speed up, you pretty much lost one of your options...  

Still, I understand our difference of opinions are divided by continents and police states, and or the state of the police enforcement in you preferred riding areas. Lucky for me the CHP can focus all their efforts on the California Autobahn, Interstate 5  or the 101 North of LA writing more tickets than they can handle and leave all the primo moto-roads, in-between and on the outskirts, mostly un-patrolled...  












 

[Rogue]

Uh? like a public road!

Pete

Honestly, I think you are on the wrong bike.

Perhaps a Honda CBR250 will be more to your liking.  You can still break a few speed limits here and there but never anything that is 20 kph over.  Sportbikes are about speed, acceleration, and handling.  If you are way over concerned about too much power then I think anything over 30 rwhp would be too much for you.

[zzrwood]

I really don't know where the market is for the VFR??? It's not a 'Sports' bike. Both the Fartblood and even the VFR 'Conventional' fill that niche. Neither is it a full blown 'Tourer' Honda have that covered admirably in the ST 1400.

Umm, then it'd be a "Sport-Tourer" - you know, something between a sport bike and a tourer...  

Really, I haven't heard such a lot of crap about a bike.  The VFR is a great sport-tourer - even in Australia. Funny, I seem to be able to manage to ride mine without needing to do over 200km/h - and relish the brilliant handling.  Why it seems to bring out the crazy ones, I don't know...  

Cheers from Oz

[Pete Roper]

Oh dear.

[Rogue]

Nothing wrong with the bike.  It's the speed Nazism that's the problem.  

I'm puzzled because I thought this kind of mentality only existed in N.A. and the Scandinavian countries (I'm told).  

[UFO]

Errr? if you can't use all the power available what's the point in having it apart from bragging rights?

Using this argument your Mana is WAY over powered.

For a motorcycle it probably only takes ~15 hp to go 60 mph (100ish kph).  Everything else is bragging rights...right?

[Pete Roper]

Don't worry yer heads about it. I never suggested anything related to power limitation or other 'official' controls over any machine. I do think it stupid to have a motor working at below peak efficiency most of the time but that it would seem is beyond the ken of the 'You Can Never Have Too Much Power' mindset. That's OK. I'd forgotten how 'Verbotten' it is to step outside the lemming-like mainstream of though. Too long being an 'Outsider' I guess. Not my problem. Not yours either, as long as you are willing to simply be slaves to an advertising doctrine.

Keep on taking the tablets. You won't get any wiser but you'll keep feeling good.

Pete

[zzrwood]

I'd forgotten how 'Verbotten' it is to step outside the lemming-like mainstream of though. Too long being an 'Outsider' I guess. Not my problem. Not yours either, as long as you are willing to simply be slaves to an advertising doctrine.

Keep on taking the tablets. You won't get any wiser but you'll keep feeling good.

I see, conforming to the non-conformist zeitgeist...  

Perhaps instead of spewing forth mindless, individualistic dogma you might recognise that people have different situations, and hence different perspectives.  I ride two-up nearly exclusively, and often pretty well loaded with luggage as well.  I toured Europe for over 20kkms last year on a 100hp BMW and definitely desired a little more power on occasions.  I won't next year when I do the same on the VFR.

I really like Moto Guzzis - hopefully if I ever own one I won't have to position myself as an 'Outsider'  

Cheers from Oz

[Rogue]

Perhaps instead of spewing forth mindless, individualistic dogma you might recognise that people have different situations, and hence different perspectives.  

Agree on that.

This sort of thing happens a lot in various different areas of society.  This is how we end up down a slippery slope.  First it's just a lively discussion of limiting power or banning certain things, but later it becomes a movement, then law.  Once it becomes law then there goes personal freedom.  A good example of this is in the wilderness areas where you get people upset over offroad vehicle use, then later it's ATV's, then later it's mountain bikes, and pretty soon you can only walk on the trail, finally, they just shut the trail down!  

Luckily for us, there are still many places were high power motorcycles and cars can roam.  In Europe they have more liberties when it comes to high speeds outside of towns and cities.  That's slowly being eroded even in Germany.  Myself,  having just ridden across the State of Arizona, I can tell you that places where high horsepower and speed used with a big margin of safety still exists in plentiful abundance.  Thank goodness for that!  

On a related note:  I just rode across one of our Interstates in the desert for hundreds of miles where I had to fight strong headwinds while maintaining 85 mph.  I can tell you, 100 rwhp felt just right.  I could have used another 25 rwhp while passing at the higher elevations but 100 rwhp seemed perfect.  What I could have used was more torque, maybe another 30 ft. lbs., but the high revs were very welcome.  150 rwhp on a VFR1200 may seem overkill in certain places.  I would say it would have been very nice to have during my trip  125 rwhp and 85 ft lbs. of torque would have been ideal.

[DosEquis00]

This sort of thing happens a lot in various different areas of society.  This is how we end up down a slippery slope.  First it's just a lively discussion of limiting power or banning certain things, but later it becomes a movement, then law.  Once it becomes law then there goes personal freedom.  A good example of this is in the wilderness areas where you get people upset over offroad vehicle use, then later it's ATV's, then later it's mountain bikes, and pretty soon you can only walk on the trail, finally, they just shut the trail down!  

+100 as let the market decide what bikes are worth building when it comes to power and not government regulations.

[atadaskew]

Using this argument your Mana is WAY over powered.

For a motorcycle it probably only takes ~15 hp to go 60 mph (100ish kph).  Everything else is bragging rights...right?

My Vespa PX will hit 60mph with 10hp.
10 hp of two stroke 4 speed fury.

[Lon]

A friend of mine wrote a review here of the new VFR1200F.  She didn't much care for it.

[Lon]

Errr? if you can't use all the power available what's the point in having it apart from bragging rights?

First gear.  Highway merge on to a 65mph road.  idle..redline.

That uses it all, if only briefly.  Power:weight is the difference between getting there in <3 seconds (VFR1200) and getting there in 45 (150cc 4T scooter with a tailwind).  Then, dive in to an exit ramp to use some of the reportedly awesome handling.

Some people live for that rush.

[spitfiremk21]

I mean really......does it really take a market study to tell big red why the new VFR isn't selling?? All they need to do is read the damn forums fer crissakes!!
In black and white Honda here it is....lower msrp (a lot lower)....restyle it and give it a larger fuel capacity.....sheesh.

[gritsngravy]

Here's the hard cold facts...the U.S.A. is cruiser country.   That is what sells, that is what most riders in this country want.    Sport touring bikes have a limited audience here so the Europeans and Japanese have to share a pretty slim market.      

Gotta face it, ST riders in this country are the freaks and geeks of the U.S. moto market.  

[Rogue]

Gotta agree with that.

Go out onto the open road in the USA and you will see:  Cruisers (mostly HD's) and Gold Wings.  

Near a big city you will see more variety.