First Bike Advice

[SummerLove]

So back in January I got my M1 permit and made the decision to move to two wheeled transportation for my primary means of getting around. Last weekend the car went up on craigslist. I'm spent the last 3 months researching and saving and testing riding when I could or sitting on when I couldn't different bikes.
I'd like to hear some advice from folks with a be more experience and from people that have a different perspective than my housemate (She's Connie rider that used to commute all the time on her first bike, Kz650CS , then got out of it for a while.. 3 years ago picked up a 90 Concours and put 30k miles on it.. though there was about a 10 month gap where she wasn't riding because of a spill the trashed the bike and finally got it running again 3 months ago and she's been riding it every since).
Her advice is to spend less than 2k on a beat up UJM from the 80s. My problem with this is I've looked at parts and they aren't cheap if something brakes, most of them that have been taken care of in the Bay Area demand some sort of weird it's shiny premium and they are with few exceptions ugly or uncomfortable for me.

So I have budget of 3k-3.5k USD and I would prefer to buy something that is a bit younger than I am with some wind protection. After a lot of research and reading, along with talking with some of the riders I know I'm looking at something with between 50-80hp and ~450lbs wet. Does this sound reasonable?

Bikes I've ridden in the past:
Mid-90s KTM 250 I think it was almost ten years ago and I'm not looking for a dual sport (Too short.. I have a 28" Inseam)
V-star 650 (High bars killed my shoulder)

Bikes I've sat on:
-Ninja 650R '10 and '07(Felt great and toss-able definitely on my list if I can
find a used 07-09 for the right price)

-Ninja 250R '08 (Was fairly comfortable.. suspension did not like my fat ass at all. They seem to demand quite the premium in the Bay Area.. cheapest one I've seen was 3200)

-Ninja 500R '09 (Felt like I was sitting on a wooden balance beam, tall and the balance felt a little off with me on it.)

-ER-6n '09 (Much like the 650R, wonder why.. sadly too expensive since it didn't come out until 09 and haven't seen a lot of them on the used market)

-F650CS '04 (Felt great, seemed to fit well.. though it had a lowered aftermarket seat. Kinda of pricey.. haven't seen a CS for less than 4k.. older STs seem to go for about 3k.)

-FZ6 '07 (Was quite comfortable.. felt a bit bigger than any of the other bikes I sat on aside from the SV650S. Insurance and bike are kinda pricey and it's sitting on 98 horses which I think might be too much.)

-FZ6R '10 (Really comfortable.. felt huge much like the FZ6.. too damn expensive. Plain and simple)

-SV650S '10 (Felt a lot bigger than the other bikes aside from FZ6.. bloody uncomfortable.. with in about a minute of sitting on it in riding position my thighs and ass were killing me. The seat was awful and the tank curve pinched my thighs)

-GS500F '10 (Sat on one.. felt not so bad.. stock seat was kinda meh compared to the Ninja 650R.. which was next to it and I sat on shortly after..)

Other bikes on the list:
SV650: I heard the naked version is lot less of a torture rack.
NT650 Honda Hawk: Gorgeous bike.. wish it had been in the states for longer than 88-91.
Bandit 600s: I actually do really like the look of the 2000 and up faired models and it's priced about right. A little old tech wise but not looking for something with all the bells and whistles.
CB-1/CB-400 No wind protection.. same reasons I like the Hawk though.

What the bike will be used for:
It will be my primary transportation, commuting to school and home and anywhere I need to go locally. Later longer trips, I'm kinda fascinated by the whole touring thing. I'd love to pick up an Interceptor or Sprint ST or something similar as a second or third bike for long trips.

One of the first things I'll be doing is finding a large top case that's water proof and adding that, probably something like the Givi V46. This of course after I've put at least 1k miles or so on it.. and probably sometime in august or september once school starts back so I can haul books + laptop and store helmet and riding jacket.

Already geared up and taking the MSF in July (Long wait line in the bay area over the summer) I have a textile jacket (was on clearance because apparently dudes don't wear purple.. and it was last year's style) textile all weather pants both the jacket and pants have CE armor in the normal sports, light mess riding gloves, (probably pick up a pair of gauntlets and an all-weather jacket in the fall when it starts raining) and my 4 year old Bates Tac boots from my EMT days. (Will probably be replaced with a set o water proof riding boots soon as it starts raining.)

Things I'm looking for:
Suggestions on bikes not listed above that might fit the bill, potential mechanical issues with bikes mentioned or suggestions. Things to look out for on aforementioned bikes.
Finally I'm certainly not afraid to by a bike that's been downed or has rashed plastics and give me a green book and the tools and I don't mind doing my own maintenance as long as parts aren't horribly expensive.

[Corbeau]

My first bike was a 98 EX500 (or Ninja 500R, or Ninjette). Had it for 20+k km before the VFR. Great starter bike. Through some soft saddlebags on it and you can tour. Was great for commuting and learning the basics of roadcraft.

Some info about my first experiences is at this link.

Happy hunting, and welcome to your new addiction!

[Dan K]

You can probably get away with one of the inline 4 bikes that you think have too much power - you're already exhibiting responsibility in your research, and you have to wind those puppies up (at least the FZ6 size 4's) before they become too much to handle.  I found my FZ1 to be a pussy cat in the low rev range, despite the fact that it would flip over if I cranked the throttle.  

You might want to think of picking up an older VFR as well.  Should be able to find one with a top case without too much trouble.

There's also nothing wrong with getting something smaller and crappy that you don't necessarily love just to hone your skills for a while, knowing you'll sell it when the right bike comes along.

Good luck.

- Dan

[SummerLove]

You can probably get away with one of the inline 4 bikes that you think have too much power - you're already exhibiting responsibility in your research, and you have to wind those puppies up (at least the FZ6 size 4's) before they become too much to handle.  I found my FZ1 to be a pussy cat in the low rev range, despite the fact that it would flip over if I cranked the throttle.  

You might want to think of picking up an older VFR as well.  Should be able to find one with a top case without too much trouble.

There's also nothing wrong with getting something smaller and crappy that you don't necessarily love just to hone your skills for a while, knowing you'll sell it when the right bike comes along.

Good luck.

- Dan

I've seen a few VF500F's for 1500-1800 but that is an old bike with some potential for cam shaft issues not to mention expensive rubber and plastic bits.  I don't know if I trust my self with something like the mid-90s VFR750. That's a lot of power for me to slip with the throttle and do something horrible, however I'll at least look into insurance costs and look for the opportunity to through a leg over one.
As for the couple of I4 bikes, I wouldn't mind owning an FZ6.. though insurance wise (for comprehensive, liability and uninsured) I was looking at roughly a 1k a year from Geico/Progessive/Allstate.  All the other bikes were 400-700 a year.

Corbeau,

I do like the EX-500/Ninja 500R and it was at the top of my list until I tossed a leg over one. Compared to the other bikes I sat on I felt like I was perched on a narrow beam and a little too much lean would tip it. As far as I know it was completely stock, none of the other bikes felt like that. Granted the seat wasn't high enough to be a problem for me. (I can't flat foot my housemate's Concours for example.) Perhaps I just need to ride one before making a judgement call on it.

[Marcster]

In addition to the Bandit 600s, that bike's twin separated at birth is the Yamaha Seca II (I had the Yamaha Diversion, which was the European version of the Seca II).  The Seca II has a few less horsepower than the Bandit 600s, but you probably won't miss them on a first bike.

The Suzuki GS500 or GS500f would be a good choice, as would the Ninja 500r (but you've already ruled that one out).

You should take a good long look at the SV650 (but not the torture-rack known as the SV650s).

It might be a little pricey, but you can keep an eye out for a Honda 599 or BMW F650gs (the latter can be lowered and/or was available lowered from the factory).

[brilder]

The difference between the basic and the S version of the SV650 is like night and day.  I would not recommend the S to a beginner, due to the racy riding position.  

I hated mine at first.  It was ache-inducing.  However, after putting a few hundred miles on it, my body has adapted quite nicely.  I can now go for several hours without pain, so long as I'm not riding on a straight highway.

[SummerLove]

In addition to the Bandit 600s, that bike's twin separated at birth is the Yamaha Seca II (I had the Yamaha Diversion, which was the European version of the Seca II).  The Seca II has a few less horsepower than the Bandit 600s, but you probably won't miss them on a first bike.

The Suzuki GS500 or GS500f would be a good choice, as would the Ninja 500r (but you've already ruled that one out).

You should take a good long look at the SV650 (but not the torture-rack known as the SV650s).

It might be a little pricey, but you can keep an eye out for a Honda 599 or BMW F650gs (the latter can be lowered and/or was available lowered from the factory).

I have taken a long look at the SV650, just don't know anyone local that owns one and none of the dealers had anything but the S so I haven't had a chance to try it out.
GS500 is definitely on the list even if the E is a bit fugly.  I should probably try to ride a 500R given all the good things people have said about it, it just felt odd compared to everything else when balancing it not moving and it felt taller.
I didn't know the 599/Hornet made it over the pond, looks like it was around for 04 and 06 and that is something to consider if I see one. The F650GS I know is too damn tall, have a friend that commutes on one, the CS (street version) was just about right, I suppose I could look into the cost of lowering links and a lower seat for the GS.

The difference between the basic and the S version of the SV650 is like night and day.  I would not recommend the S to a beginner, due to the racy riding position.  

I hated mine at first.  It was ache-inducing.  However, after putting a few hundred miles on it, my body has adapted quite nicely.  I can now go for several hours without pain, so long as I'm not riding on a straight highway.

So people tell me, I definitely want to check one out. The forward lean on the S and the knee position wasn't what got me it was the shape of the tank.

[expatbrit]

I'd stay with 'under 50hp, under 500lbs', with the 650 parallel twins like the Ninja 650 being 'meh'. Great bikes, but more power, more brakes, more of everything and harder to learn on. The SV650 is even zippier, and while I agree with Dan K that the 600 I-4s aren't bad below a certain rev point, the first time you get over that learning by accident all hell is likely out for noon. Even the 'detuned' ones like the FZ6/FZ6R/599 are bloody fast bikes once you wind them out.

It's your first bike, not your last, so a nice, used, fun bike that's light enough that you can learn skills on would be perfect. You can probably resell it for most of what you paid for it in a year, or two.

Things like the Ninja 500, Ninja 250, Suzuki GS500s are perfect. The seat is likely to suck on ANY bike, I'm afraid -- it's the thing EVERYONE replaces.

[UHOH]

So back in January I got my M1 permit and made the decision to move to two wheeled transportation
for my primary means of getting around. Last weekend the car went up on craigslist...

1 - don't sell that car till you've got the bike in hand and ridden it for at least a week.  
Since you've got a permit, consider, consider going with your roomie to an import bike riders function (like riders' coffee, bike night dinner?) to talk and look at bikes.  
Caution here - I don't know your area!!

2 - realize that everything is more expensive in an urban area.   You  might use your car to get a weekend ride to a far away spot to look at a couple of bikes.  

3 - Beyond initial cost, I'd consider repair / durability and only consider very popular bikes.
If a bike been a good seller there's a reason and there also a good supply of parts available down the road.
In this area, suggest you move the SV650 naked to top of list.  Bullet proof mechanically and popular.   Add a $150 windscreen to get wind protection and it works.  probably add $25 lowering links to bring down the height; will have to look at side stand height as a result.  within your price range, about.
 if you can add $1000, the Suzuki Gladius is an SV650 naked, updated with a lower seat and different styling.  

[UHOH]

sent PM

[SummerLove]

1 - don't sell that car till you've got the bike in hand and ridden it for at least a week.  
Since you've got a permit, consider, consider going with your roomie to an import bike riders function (like riders' coffee, bike night dinner?) to talk and look at bikes.  
Caution here - I don't know your area!!

2 - realize that everything is more expensive in an urban area.   You  might use your car to get a weekend ride to a far away spot to look at a couple of bikes.  

3 - Beyond initial cost, I'd consider repair / durability and only consider very popular bikes.
If a bike been a good seller there's a reason and there also a good supply of parts available down the road.
In this area, suggest you move the SV650 naked to top of list.  Bullet proof mechanically and popular.   Add a $150 windscreen to get wind protection and it works.  probably add $25 lowering links to bring down the height; will have to look at side stand height as a result.  within your price range, about.
 if you can add $1000, the Suzuki Gladius is an SV650 naked, updated with a lower seat and different styling.  

There is a lot of good advice here. I was actually going to be looking at an 01 SV650 at some point today though I never got to it. The car was sold at 8am.. about 3 hours before I planned to be awake. 4 hours later we were testing riding a Ducati Monster 750  that was slightly less than the SV650 I planned on looking at later that day. Long story short.. things lined up, the Monster was an insanely good deal (it had been low sided so had a small dent in the tank and about 1/4th the brake lever was missing; however it was in the process of being restored by the seller for his girlfriend who after riding it a few times decided to stick with her 250R which was the only reason he hadn't replaced the lever yet.) and then things got weird.
The seller ended up being someone my housemate new; the person she replaced as web dev when he left her present company 5 years ago. He was a bit of a Ducati fanatic and we spent something like 2 hours talking to him after test riding the bike and deciding this was too good to pass up and fate seem to be screaming in my ear that this was the right thing to do.

So I now have a yellow '99 Ducati Monster 750 in the garage, insurance was insanely cheap.. like almost half what the insurance on the SV650 was. It came with a box of carbon fiber race-bits that he'd pulled off it to get it safe to ride on the street. The previous owner before that apparently didn't believe in turn signals or mirrors so it has some OEM mirrors that I'm finding in retrospect uncomfortably small so that's getting fixed and new brake lever is on the way.

I got about an hour of riding in before it got dark, she's a torque beast  that much I can say for certain but I knew that going into it. I simply didn't comprehend what that would mean but I getting a really good feel for things before karma came around to balance the score. After that hour of slowly puttering around our cou de sac at between 5-10mph  my left hand was cramping up a bit so I decided to take a break.  A few notes my housemate that was giving the lessons is married. She talked her husband into at least giving the whole motorcycle thing a shot shortly after I picked up my permit.  After a lot of hemming and hawing he decided he wanted to go more toward the cruiser side of things. (And she, our other housemate who doesn't into bikes but does autocross and such let out a collective sigh of relief as the husband can be very.. very competitive and when it came to driving a car his perceived driving skill does not match his actual skill. So deciding that going fast might be bad was a big step for him and he feels a cruiser will encourage more responsible thought patterns.)

Right where was I.. Oh so I took a break because oh god hand cramp in clutch hand and he asked if I would mind letting him at least through a leg on it and getting it moving in a straight line with his wife walking him through it. At this point the bike is fully insured and he's also been added to her motorcycle policy so I was like what the hell sure. First attempt he stalls, no biggy so did I. Second attempt he gooses the throttle while letting the clutch out and launches bike across the cou de sac at our neighbor's hedges. To hers credit e remembered there were brakes and stopped the bike without dropping it or hitting anything; however Soleil (his wife and the veteran biker here) panics and chases after him on foot.. only to catch her foot on the manhole cover in the middle of the cou de sac and tumble while at a full on sprint. She's not a small woman at 6'5" and around 250lbs and she went shoulder first in to the asphalt.

So for those of you that haven't been paying attention, I've been an EMT for 4.. almost 5 years. So my first concern was her. We got her out of the street and inside then the bike in the garage. After a quick assessment I'm pretty sure she's had an AC joint separation and so we are off to the ER. 90 minutes later she's in a sling with a fist full of vicoden because low and behold she did not dislocate her shoulder like she thought, she had a right AC joint separation. It sucks but it will heal, she'll be out of the saddle for a few weeks while it does. Her husband is now terrified of the Ducati and will be waiting to his bike until after the MSF course in June for him. Meanwhile I'm stuck laughing at the end of results, the two people expected to get hurt (myself and her husband) and with the least amount training and experience are fine. The person with the most experience got hurt but not directly by riding the bike.

So my goal is to get in an hour of riding every day at least on the back roads and through our neighborhood until I  take the MSF. There is another car available for the time being if I need to actually go somewhere. Other than that I'm actually becoming rather enamored with the Ducati. It sounds like the wrathful bellows and wailing some edritch dead god and I love it.  Anyway.. I've been on my feet now for 23 hours so  I think it's time for sleep.

For that that tl,dr  I had a hell of a day and bought a yellow '99 Ducati Monster 750 for $2500 and will post pics after I've gotten some sleep.

[Castaway]

Congrats on the new-to-you bike.    May your riding future be mishap free. Think twice about allowing a newbie to 'give it a try.'    

[SummerLove]

Congrats on the new-to-you bike.    May your riding future be mishap free. Think twice about allowing a newbie to 'give it a try.'    

I definitely will think twice about allowing another newbie to hop on my bike. Thankfully the bike suffered no damage though Soleil is bummed out that she won't be riding for a week or two and we are down a car which does complicate things a little. We'll manage.
Anyway..

So I put 15 miles on the bike today riding it around the neighborhood once it dried up (rained last night). Was a lot of fun, practicing shifting and engine braking, never got her up above 35mph nor did I want to. After circling the neighborhood for about an hour I called it quits after a young girl and her father backed out their driveway in front of me right after I'd eased into 3rd. I swerved and got on the front brake (forgot I had a rear. Foot keeps slipping off the peg, actual riding boots are going to acquired this week) and avoided them but smacked my crotch against the tank pretty good. They apologized pretty profusely, he was teaching her to drive stick and I puttered on home to take a break, conceding the neighborhood roads to the soon to be cager. On the upside if she's learning stick the chances of her talking on her cell while driving are somewhat less..
 Pictures finally!

[NotDeadYet]

Nice bike - take it easy as you get used to it and it will take you far.  There are only a trusted few that I would let ride my bike even across the street.  Get it fixed up and enjoy.  I have owned a few Ducati's in my life - they have something that other bikes don't.  Having said that you will find they can be a bit maintenance heavy.  Valve adjustments and the like can add up if you put a lot of miles on them.  The pain of the bills are generally offset by the fun your new Ducati will provide.  Looks like you got a good deal too.  Stay safe and enjoy.

[guitardad]

First of all - nice bike!!  I know it's hard, now that you've got it, to not ride before your class.  But that hard, slighlty painful stop illustrates an essential truth about motorcycles - skill and technique count for a lot.  Much more so than in a car.  So the time spent to learn good technique first, then practice until it bcomes skill, is worth the effort.

Here's a book that may help: The Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Guide to Motorcycling Excellence.  It will explain more about good techniques, like a prograssive S-Q-U-E-E-Z-E on the brake.  And let us know how it goes as you keep learning!

[SummerLove]

Nice bike - take it easy as you get used to it and it will take you far.  There are only a trusted few that I would let ride my bike even across the street.  Get it fixed up and enjoy.  I have owned a few Ducati's in my life - they have something that other bikes don't.  Having said that you will find they can be a bit maintenance heavy.  Valve adjustments and the like can add up if you put a lot of miles on them.  The pain of the bills are generally offset by the fun your new Ducati will provide.  Looks like you got a good deal too.  Stay safe and enjoy.

Definitely loving the bike after just short of two weeks of owning and riding it. Granted I don't have anything to compare it too. It sounds amazing compared to my housemate's Concour.

First of all - nice bike!!  I know it's hard, now that you've got it, to not ride before your class.  But that hard, slighlty painful stop illustrates an essential truth about motorcycles - skill and technique count for a lot.  Much more so than in a car.  So the time spent to learn good technique first, then practice until it bcomes skill, is worth the effort.

Here's a book that may help: The Motorcycle Safety Foundation's Guide to Motorcycling Excellence.  It will explain more about good techniques, like a prograssive S-Q-U-E-E-Z-E on the brake.  And let us know how it goes as you keep learning!

I've put about 100 miles of city riding on the bike so far, picked up a copy of a Proficient Motorcycling by David L Hough and waiting for a mid-2000s copy of the MSF course text book to arrive at the local library branch. I was pretty happy to find they had a copy of it. Still stuck waiting until the 7th of July to take the MSF and I'm excited about it. Until then, no riding on freeways or at night. Granted with the pipes that came on the bike I'd be worried about waking people, trying to find the stock pipes for the Monster but it's been futile so far.

[NotDeadYet]

No need to go back to stock pipes - those are sweet.  You have to love the sound of a Duc.

[SummerLove]

So.. I went on my longest ride so far, about a 140 miles of mixed mountain roads and city roads with no particular destination. Was lots of fun. Left hand is a little stiff from lots of stop lights but eh it was still lots of fun. As it cooled off my mesh jacket got cold! Going to be picking up a vented leather riding jacket sometime in June.

[nater]

Glad you are enjoying the Duc!  Bikes are a ton of fun to ride around on (when the weather's nice).  Make sure you keep up on the maintence (oil changes, chain adjustments, ect...).  If you don't have a garage to put it in, make sure you keep it under a bike cover, otherwise it will rust in the rain.

[OrangeSVS]

Very nice bike! Sounds like you'll do fine on it.

Having started on a torture rack SV650S, I will suggest that at some point you try a smaller bike. They're loads more fun in and around the city. However, that Monster is a nice compromise do-it-all machine. Just need some side cases or a top case or something.

And if you PM me your address, I might be able to get around to sending you some more reading material before you take the MSF class.    

[SummerLove]

Glad you are enjoying the Duc!  Bikes are a ton of fun to ride around on (when the weather's nice).  Make sure you keep up on the maintence (oil changes, chain adjustments, ect...).  If you don't have a garage to put it in, make sure you keep it under a bike cover, otherwise it will rust in the rain.

Did the oil and chain adjustment last week, runs like a completely different bike. I'm glad we just went ahead and did it, previous owner thought it needed on in 500 miles. Oil that came out was black as a raven and very watery. Not to mention only 2.5 quarts came out and 4 quarts went in. Sent the oil off for analysis and appears to be normal.. just old an dirty, no abnormal traces. As for storage space.. we have a 2 car garage that is too short for any of our cars and presently houses 2 bikes, soon to be 3 and all our tools and riding gear. Should we need more space.. we have a shed large enough for 3-4 more bikes right next to the garage. Chances are it will slowly start filling up.. I may have promised to only own 3 bikes at a time.  

Very nice bike! Sounds like you'll do fine on it.

Having started on a torture rack SV650S, I will suggest that at some point you try a smaller bike. They're loads more fun in and around the city. However, that Monster is a nice compromise do-it-all machine. Just need some side cases or a top case or something.

And if you PM me your address, I might be able to get around to sending you some more reading material before you take the MSF class.    

I want to put a Givi V46 on the back.. having trouble tracking down the mounting bracket for it. Bike's a 99 and the tail section is from an 05. (Bike came with a carbon fiber tail section with no turn signals.. and newer tail section fit and was cheap.)

[gregm784]

Any updates?  

[SummerLove]

Had my first get off back in June.. bike is fine aside from needing a new headlamp lens. I ride every day. Still haven't been able to find a bracket to mount a top case to it with. MSF was fun... a month an half ago. Rolling over towards the 3k mark in seat time. Slapped some new tires on it recently (was a toss up between PP Road 2s and Roadsmarts) ended up with the roadsmarts at a discount because someone sold the last 120/60 PPR2 twice the morning I came in for tires.. and holy crap.. so much better than the 5 year Pilot Power and Metzeler M3 that were on it before.
Learned a few big lessons when it comes to buying bikes. Pretty much every time I do work on this bike I find myself replacing a rusted/frozen bolt.. by the January I'm pretty sure I will have replaced every bolt on the bike but it's been a good learning experience.
Crappy CA freeways suck balls on the monster; looking to add a sport tourer to the stable by the end of the year. I've been riding my housemate's '90 Concours a lot recently because she's trying to talk me into something heavier than a ST4/3, VFR800, Sprint ST or what I really want a Futura. Or at least she's trying to convince me I'd be just as happy on something like a Connie or Connie 14, K1200 or R-RT. She is planning on picking up an R1150RT soon so I think she's a tad biased.