Group or pair riding skills, rules, ettiquette?

[stw]

Just curious what people expect of their ride partners.
How is it different for two or three riders compared to a big group?
What bugs you that ride partners do?
What advice/warning to you give those joining your group?

[garry]

Show up for the ride on-time (that means early) with a full tank of gas, a full stomach, and an empty bladder.

You and your bike should be in sound working order (good tires/etc, not too hungover) and capable of doing the whole ride.

Single file all the time except in towns and major (4-lane) highways (where you do the staggered thing to be more compact).

Give the rider in front plenty of room/time so that you have time to react if the rider in front slams on the brakes for gravel, animals or whatever. I really don't want to get ass-packed by a riding partner that was glancing at the nice scenery at the same time I was emergency braking for something.

Wear (at least) some of the gear all the time. I know it's your choice and your body, but I'm the one that will be stuck waiting for the meat wagon if you get all trashed and rashed from a simple low side. My minimum list is helmet, gloves, jacket, long pants and sturdy boots (ATGATT preferred).

Bring enough cash to buy a tank of gas and lunch. Lots of little mom and pops don't take credit cards.

RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE. Don't feel pressured to ride faster if the pace is beyond your comfort zone. Don't be afraid to ask to tear along up front if you want to ride faster, but you better know the route. Only pass when and where it's safe and you are comfortable.

If you are going to bail from the group, let someone know so that we don't think you're lost or off in the weeds somewhere.

Don't ride like an ass. Don't piss off your fellow riders and try not to piss off the general public too much either.

[Cvergi01]

That...was...beautiful  


I took my newb buddy out yesterday.  I know that he's only been riding his bike about 2 weeks, but, we were going pretty slow.  he was following so far back that I would lose him around long sweepers.  very frustrating.  we didn't know where we were going, just trying to get lost in the backroads so I couldn't just run ahead.

[UHOH]

What advice/warning to you give those joining your group?

First time to group, esp if new riders show up, "No passing on the right."

[Pitts2112]

Understand the psychology changes going on.  When you ride with other people, you are no longer an individual, you are now a "group", and most people's mindset does change, at least new people.

You will start to put the needs and norms of the group ahead of yourself and feel internal pressure to do whatever they are doing, ride the way they are riding.

Group leaders, especially newer leaders, can become very defensive of their own riding and leading skills.  That is very dangerous.  I was on a 3-man group ride and the leader was a new rider.  He was leading because he was the only one who knew where we were going.  He refused to ride staggered so moved around the whole lane all the time, causing us behind him to constantly shift our positioning to stay tight together and keep front-rear separation.  He had no clue how to wait up for people behind him, no idea how to handle intersections and stoplights to keep the group together, no idea how acceleration and power differences affect a group's ability to keep together and didn't use his rear-view mirrors to see if we were still with him or not.  At one point I found myself doing 100 mph to catch up to him after we made a left turn.  He would make turns and gun it to get back up to speed - he had a binary throttle - it was either at idle or full on.  He also was overcome by a bad case of "get-there-itis" when we were heading back to make the ferry.  This caused his riding to become far too fast, too aggressive, and very dangerous not only for the group but for his own level of skill, the weather, and the bike he was on.  

The really bad part, though, was that he was impervious to feedback, even from someone who had not only led group rides, but had spent several years leading aircraft formations over Europe.  When I tried to point some of his dangerous behaviours out, a degree of arrogance and defensiveness he normally didn't have came out in spades.  He didn't need anyone telling him how to lead a group ride- he already knew all about it!

And I was just as guilty for doing 100 mph because I was part of this group - we HAD to stay together!

One good piece of advice is make sure everyone in the group has a map and knows where you are going.  That way, if you start to feel pressure to ride beyond your comfort level, you can feel completely free to let them go on ahead and meet them at the destination and get back to riding your own ride.  You'll probably never be more than 5 minutes behind them anyway.

Group riding can be an absolute blast, but the psychology does change, so these are just some things to look out for.

[M.Brane]

 I like slinky style group rides. This is more of a shared destinations thing where everybody knows the route, and riders wait for whoever is next at turnoffs before continuing. Egos in check to allow the pecking order to be sorted early on i.e if someone is in your mirrors wave 'em past. This allows everyone to ride their own ride while keeping the group together.

 I don't mind following someone who is a little slower than me since it gives me a chance to work on the finer points of my riding technique, and enjoy a bit of scenery occasionally. I also like following someone a little faster, but never get sucked into trying too hard to keep up.

 At least 2 sec following distance, and mostly 3+. When following someone don't watch them watch the road just ahead of them. That way if they screw up you won't join them.

[Cvergi01]

When I was riding with the group for the WCRM, it was my first real group ride, as nobody I know has a bike.  I learned real quick that I shouldn't try to keep up.  we were on roads that were wet and bumpy.  these are 2 things that I am not comfortable enough with to really attack, and I'm ok with that.  I was watching the person in front of me and obviously that was taking away from my own lines, and attention.  I got the mentality that "if they can do it, so can I" well, they had been riding much longer than I, and thus, after leaving my lane twice, I decided that I should probably go a little slower.  thankfully, I had my mama duck to hang back with me and make sure that I was going to live.  Later, however, we got onto a nice clean/dry/smooth road that I was a little better with and started tearing it up with the pros.

[viffergyrl]

When I was riding with the group for the WCRM, it was my first real group ride, as nobody I know has a bike.  I learned real quick that I shouldn't try to keep up.  we were on roads that were wet and bumpy.  these are 2 things that I am not comfortable enough with to really attack, and I'm ok with that.  I was watching the person in front of me and obviously that was taking away from my own lines, and attention.  I got the mentality that "if they can do it, so can I" well, they had been riding much longer than I, and thus, after leaving my lane twice, I decided that I should probably go a little slower.  thankfully, I had my mama duck to hang back with me and make sure that I was going to live.  Later, however, we got onto a nice clean/dry/smooth road that I was a little better with and started tearing it up with the pros.

Mama Duck here.   We've all been there. Crashing sucks trying to keep up. DAMHIK.

Radios help with the communication in a group - what worked nicely on WCRM was that Rob707, M.Brane, and I had radios (although Rob could hear us, his microphone wasn't working). Rob, Andrew, and endo were in the front, M.Brane was midway and I was at the end with Cvergi01 in the middle. The faster peeps could roll on ahead and I could just report my location by landmarks as necessary. No chaos, no crashing, everyone had a great time.  

[stw]

Great points.

... At least 2 sec following distance, and mostly 3+...

This is what I do in traffic but have had feedback from someone in a group that I'm supposed to ride bunched up much closer than 2 sec.  
Glad to hear several here advocating saner following times in group and will give a pass to the blue angels style tight formation groups.

[bomber]

Something I don't see mentioned often is this --

Be prepared to leave the group if they don't perform to your liking.

Riding with others, to a large degree, puts your well-being in the hands of those other riders. If a group that is new to you doesn't act like they value their own hides, they likely don't place a lot of value on yours.

Before you bail, though, do the right thing and let em know.

[Windblown]

Just curious what people expect of their ride partners.

Garry covered it well.  A successful group ride starts with offering some details as to pace, frequency of stops, and ride length. Those interested in attending need to be able to make an honest assement of their own skills and desires to make sure it's a decent fit. I've been on some great flower sniffing runs and I've been on some great kamakazi runs. If everyone is on the same page up front it works, if not the ride becomes misery for all involved.

I'll pass any rider in the group but the ride leader without waiting for their acknowledgement and expect others to do the same to me if they feel inclined. If that is contray to the leaders wishes I'll abide by them but will probably decide the group is not one I wish to ride with again, I don't do parades.  The only execption is if the group is tight behind the leader. In that case passing is just immature jockeying for position.

and yes... DO NOT PEEL OFF OF A RIDE WITHOUT MAKING CERTAIN THAT THE LEADER IS AWARE AND NEVER ASSUME SOMEONE WHO HAS TURNED UP MISSING JUST DECIDED TO PEEL OFF!

[TriumphTiger1050]

The rules to me????

As far as position..........staggered while riding.

Gripes..........trying to stretch gas and running out rather than gasing up!

Being on time!  If you have a issue, call ahead!

[ChrisZRX]

Bring enough cash to buy a tank of gas and lunch. Lots of little mom and pops don't take credit cards.

That's a good one!  I haven't forgotten that I owe Jesse 10 bucks.

If you're leading a ride, particularly at a good pace, don't suddenly slam on your brakes if you just want to stop or turn around.  

[sammyseaman]

That...was...beautiful  


I took my newb buddy out yesterday.  I know that he's only been riding his bike about 2 weeks, but, we were going pretty slow.  he was following so far back that I would lose him around long sweepers.  very frustrating.  we didn't know where we were going, just trying to get lost in the backroads so I couldn't just run ahead.

I used to ride with a guy like that. He was a really good rider but any rides we went on he'd slowly get further and further away. Eventually I would just tell hime where we were going so he could meet up with us when he got there. That really pissed him off   . I don't miss riding with him.

[HipGnosis]

 DO NOT PEEL OFF OF A RIDE WITHOUT MAKING CERTAIN THAT THE LEADER IS AWARE

This can be easier said than done, esp if the rest of the group is faster than you.  I say make sure someONE in the group knows.

For informal, small group rides, don't take off from a turn w/o ensuring the guy behind you sees where you turned.  Sometimes you have to stop at the side of the road right before a turn so you can be seen.

Leaders need to be aware of the shortest fuel range bike in the group if the ride is more than a short one.

The group should stop together occassionally and get a thumbs-up from everyone.
When stopping for gas etc., give some clear, advance warning when you're going to leave (and don't tell anyone they have time to go get another coffee).

[919]

When I'm leading a ride I tell everyone at the beginning, don't try to keep up, check your mirrors to make sure the rider behind you can see you make the turn, stop if they can't, and no staggered riding on twisty roads adjust your following distance accordingly, and wait for the rider in front to pull to the right and signal to pass.

I pick my line based on traffic, road condition, weather, juju, whatever.  I use my lane, all of it, to get the job done.  The job being to get me and everybody else to the destination and home in one piece.  Staggered riding and close following distance have their reasons but they certainly do not belong on twisty roads, keep it on the slab or riding slow through a populated area.

my 2 pennies

[Hotbrakes]

Pick and choose who you ride with carefully.  It's no fun waiting for an ambulance (or helicopter) or some idiot ass packing another rider.
The leader should set a consistent pace that allows everyone to maintain sight of each other.  Tailor the pace to everyone in the group.
Communication is important, discuss the route, use hand signals well in advance of a turn, use hand signals when slowing down, warn others of debris or a tighter turn, and be smooth.
The group order should reflect skill level and familiarity with the route.  If you have a bad feeling about the other riders before or during the ride, it's probably time to break off at the next stop.  
Break the group down if it is large and you have enough leader capable riders who can lead the sub groups.  4 bikes per group is about the maximum safe limit.
If you are new to a group ride in the back!  Even if you're a better rider, you will continue to be such if you are watching the mayhem rather than being mixed in it.
There should be no passing of anyone anytime.  If someone is faster then switch positions at the next stop.  

Only ride with good, responsible friends of similar skill level.  Waving at the large group or chatting with them at a gas station will yield a much better experience.

[jeepinbanditrider]

My biggest pet peeve is people riding in my blind spots or wanting to do two abreast in one lane    The biggest violators of this (in my little corner of the world anyway) are the people I work with who ride sport bikes.  We're talking guys who might put 1-2 k per year on their bikes (on a good year) and most of that is on the interstate going to gatherings in the local area.

One guy did it so often I told him I wasn't leading him anywhere if he got to where I couldn't see him in my mirrors again.  That I would leave him to his own damn devices in the middle of BFE (for him anyway).  

I want to be able to manuver if something comes infront of me (box, old lady with a cane, car, ect) without having to worry and spend the time to check for sure to make sure I'm not going to take out my buddy in the process.

Now if anyone rides with me or behind me I let them know to keep their damn distance.

[pete620]

The book Proficient Motorcycling has a section on group rides that might be helpful to you, plus its a pretty good read in general.

[phaze5]

we recently had a ride where one guy went down in a curve bringing 3 others with him, they all deserved it so i went home, and never told anyone they didn't care if they wrecked my ride why should i if i wreck theirs. no more big group rides for me.

[TheWarrior17]

This site has a pretty good resource for group riding among other things.

http://www.newenglandriders.org/Riding%20Safety/Riding%20Safety.htm

-Mike

[miles]

First time to group, esp if new riders show up, "No passing on the right."

Damn.  I guess I'm not ever going to ride with you, then.