iPad 3G in the US?

[ajf]

I need (well, want) wireless access to weather radar while on the move by bike or plane.  (WiFi won't do.)  After waiting and waiting for the Playbook 3G, I gave up and bought an iPad - not ideal because it's too big but there's no way I'd tolerate the security issues of Android tablets, so that's all there is.  (Security is an issue because the US requires you to submit all of your personal information online before giving you permission via E-mail to cross the border in a small plane.  And I don't need a $50/month smart phone - I don't even use all of my $100/year prepaid dumb phone plan.  Plus I have a SPOT with emergency road service so I don't need my phone to work in the US.)

Anyway, I can pay Telus or Bell $20/month plus $3/MB for roaming in the US, or I can get a $15/month prepaid data plan from Bell that I can suspend when I don't need it in the winter.  Then, according to the Bell store, I get a SIM card from AT&T and prepay a few dollars whenever I need access in the US.

I like cheaper, so I tried AT&T on my recent trip to California.  Two different stores couldn't make it work, nor could anyone at their customer service number.  Everyone had a different explanation, but the problem seemed to be that I couldn't give a Canadian billing address for my credit card because their system couldn't accept letters in the ZIP code.  After getting home I had the time to sit on the line through four layers of customer service to finally get someone who seemed to be familiar with the problem.  Her solution:  buy a prepaid debit card from a US bank and use the bank's address.  That might work, according to her.

So I would have two accounts to manage before leaving for the US - the debit card (assuming I can top it up online using a credit card) and the AT&T account.  Way too complicated for me.

Has anyone found an easier way to make 3G work in the US on an iPad?

[ST1300Rider]

I've used the AT&T sims in my iphone and my wife's ipad. The trick is to get an actual AT&T person on the phone and have her phone the CC company you use.... well it worked for me anyway. Once you get the sim activated be advised that the minutes don't roll over on the $20 plans and they expire after 90 (IIRC) days. The $100.00 plan is good for a year and you can use pieces of it for data purchase. That being said, I don't know how a data only plan would work. I activated a sim in my iphone and then used it in the ipad.

[ajf]

I activated a sim in my iphone and then used it in the ipad.

That might be why you could get it to work.  AT&T told me an iPad sim had to be activated on the iPad, using a program that I assume is built into the sim.  It required a zip code that matched the billing address of the credit card, and there was no way to get past the fact that no letters could be typed into that field.  We tried using the store's address and got back a denial because that didn't match the billing address of the credit card.

[kevin_stevens]

Sheesh.  At this point wouldn't it be easier to get a wireless tablet and a mobile hotspot?

KeS

Edit:  Oh, sorry, I see you already have the 3G iPad.

[Croak]

What security issues can you actually point out about Android that are more than just tinfoil hat or pro-Apple/pro-RIM FUD?  

Anyway, all of the "big three" carriers in Canada have some sort of bulk North American data plan, Rogers being the easiest to get since they actually advertise it.  I have mine with Telus, pay $35/month for 500mb, but that 500mb is good in Canada and the US, and it's tied to my $20 voice plan.  I just pop that SIM out of my phone and stick it in my (awesome, secure, fully telephonic, durable, nicely portable 7" Android) tablet if I need direct 3g access and want to conserve phone battery power, otherwise I just use my phone as a WiFi hotspot for the tablet.

Sadly, you have an Apple product, and the flexibility/SIM portability found with Android and/or RIM don't easily apply.  That's why "this changes everything", because it's a different set of rules.  But hey, it's magical.  Good news is, you can find a lot of cultists that will happily pay close to retail for your used iPad if you move to a more flexible product.

As for the plan, the long and short of it is, there ain't no "cheap" by your definition way of doing what you want to do, ~$50/month is going to be your low ceiling on a post-paid plan, and none of the pre-paid plans work worth a damn cross-border without hoop jumping.

[kevin_stevens]

What security issues can you actually point out about Android that are more than just tinfoil hat or pro-Apple/pro-RIM FUD?  

Anyway, all of the "big three" carriers in Canada have some sort of bulk North American data plan, Rogers being the easiest to get since they actually advertise it.  I have mine with Telus, pay $35/month for 500mb, but that 500mb is good in Canada and the US, and it's tied to my $20 voice plan.  I just pop that SIM out of my phone and stick it in my (awesome, secure, fully telephonic, durable, nicely portable 7" Android) tablet if I need direct 3g access and want to conserve phone battery power, otherwise I just use my phone as a WiFi hotspot for the tablet.

Sadly, you have an Apple product, and the flexibility/SIM portability found with Android and/or RIM don't easily apply.  That's why "this changes everything", because it's a different set of rules.  But hey, it's magical.  Good news is, you can find a lot of cultists that will happily pay close to retail for your used iPad if you move to a more flexible product.

As for the plan, the long and short of it is, there ain't no "cheap" by your definition way of doing what you want to do, ~$50/month is going to be your low ceiling on a post-paid plan, and none of the pre-paid plans work worth a damn cross-border without hoop jumping.

 
   

KeS

[ajf]

What security issues can you actually point out about Android that are more than just tinfoil hat or pro-Apple/pro-RIM FUD?  

I take security seriously because I'm retired on a small fixed income and a single episode of identity theft could permanently reduce my assets and lifestyle.  (For example, in Alberta someone with enough personal information can easily transfer title of your house to himself, then take out a mortgage on the house - the banks don't check.  You're out 30 - 50k and your asset is frozen for the 2 or 3 years it takes to get clear title back.)

There have been many reports of data-logging programs embedded in apps for Android.  I haven't heard of any for iPads or RIM devices.  Considering that even the CIA can't keep its computers secure, I don't have the hubris to think I know enough to protect myself.  My first line of defense is to start with a device that is generally considered to be harder to hack.  I don't know enough to be sure that Apple and RIM devices are more secure, but most "experts" seem to think they are.

Anyway, all of the "big three" carriers in Canada have some sort of bulk North American data plan, Rogers being the easiest to get since they actually advertise it.

Interesting.  I had dismissed Rogers because it has almost no coverage in the Kootenays.  But now that I've stopped riding there, I should reconsider them.  They do have the most extensive list of partners for roaming in the US, and the list is available on their website.  It was like pulling teeth to get Bell's roaming partners, and I've never been able to get that information from Telus.

As for the plan, the long and short of it is, there ain't no "cheap" by your definition way of doing what you want to do, ~$50/month is going to be your low ceiling on a post-paid plan, and none of the pre-paid plans work worth a damn cross-border without hoop jumping.

I had hoped for "really cheap", but glib assurances from Bell and AT&T representatives turned out to be wrong.  It seems that you don't get to talk to someone who really knows the issues until you have a specific problem to solve.

Still, at $8.33/ month for my cell phone and $20/month for the data plan for the iPad and roughly $50/year in US roaming charges I'll be close to even at the three year point vs buying a smartphone at a subsidized price on locked-in 3 year contract.  If smartphone plans with data stay at $50/month I'll be way ahead at 5 years.  And, considering how hard it is to to type on a small screen or keyboard with my stubby fingers, I probably would have bought a tablet to tether to the phone eventually anyway.  (I'm learning to touch-type on the iPad, and after a few hours I'm already half as fast as on a keyboard.)

[Croak]

Well, you're pretty safe from any data logging because you have full control of what permissions to grant, don't just blindly download and grant permissions to applications.  And besides, I think you're probably not the target demographic for the most popular crap-ware vectors, which usually feature the augmented mammary glands of teenage Asian girls, or streaming porn video applications.

I also have to ask why you need to use the tablet to send DHS/FAA your personal information prior to a flight, when all you really want it for is weather tracking?

[ajf]

I also have to ask why you need to use the tablet to send DHS/FAA your personal information prior to a flight, when all you really want it for is weather tracking?

Both reasons are important to me.  Weather tracking is of interest to most STN members, I imagine, and I added the border crossing issue since my security issues wouldn't make sense without it.

A Blackberry can't handle the DNS forms (actually CBP - Customs and Border Protection) that you must use to submit the personal information they think they need.   You have to be able to submit this information while traveling because anything that changes your plans by more than 24 hours requires a new submission.  I wouldn't be willing to do it using some hotel's WiFi, so I need a wireless connection.  Plus WiFi isn't much help when you're sitting at the side of the road trying to decide which route to take to bypass a thunderstorm.

The only smartphone I know works with the CBP forms is the iPhone.  So it was down to an iPhone or iPad.  I thought an iPad would be substantially cheaper and more useful in some ways.

[Croak]

I'm going to cross a line here and say you're  waaaaay more paranoid  than is healthy, and then shut up and forget about this thread.  

[Oxblood]

I'm going to cross a line here and say you're  waaaaay more paranoid  than is healthy, and then shut up and forget about this thread.  

Smart idea. Though it does have a certain entertainment value, like a car wreck.

As to this DNS form you speak of ajf, what is it? What file format? WHere is it downloaded from? I'd bet any smart phone would handle it, as would any Android tablet (it's probably just a PDF, like the forms I use to file my Nexus declarations).

[ajf]

https://eapis.cbp.dhs.gov/

There is both an initial registration and a form to be submitted prior to each border crossing.

I have it on good authority (an official with the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association) that it can't be done on a Blackberry.  Plus an aerobatic club website had a how-to section on crossing the border that specified the point at which a Blackberry chokes.  I didn't bookmark it and it would take more time to find that I can devote right now.  I'm not anticipating any difficulty in completing these forms on the iPad.

[Oxblood]

Alas, that web site only displays the log on page. Cannot see the document. If it is an HTML comnpliant webform, a Blackberry shoudl handle it, as well as any Anfdroid phone. I know that CBSA and the US CBPA use a lot of PDF's on their web pages for submitting your applications, details etc. And this web site http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/inspections_carriers_facilities/apis/eapis_transmission_system.xml shows all the forms are PDF, so any reader should work. These guys https://www.ocpilots.org/Docs/eAPIS/eAPIS.asp? have even built a shareware app to fill out and file the eAPIS forms, and they say it runs on a Blackberry.

And I found a PDF reader with a file manager at the Blackberry app store here http://appworld.blackberry.com/webstore/content/1306. That should allow anyone using the eAPIS forms to fill them out and email them to CBPA. So, whoever tried it on a Blackberry didn't knwo what they were doing.

Finally, as to the assertion that an iPAD is safer, as Croak state not so much. I feel a lot more secure with Android where I get to set all the permissions for all apps than I ever would with anything from Apple.

[ajf]

If you really are that interested, I assumed you would do a fake registration far enough to see the nature of the forms.

Regarding the service that makes it easier, it's a new one I haven't heard about.  But it's got the same problem as the commercial one that came out two years ago.  All your personal information is stored on their server.  How secure is it?  There's no way to know.  It's bad enough that the US government insists on storing it on a potentially insecure site.  (Read the preamble on the first page.  It explicitly says they aren't concerned about protecting your personal data.)  Considering that most pilots (except me) are relatively wealthy, it's a perfect target for hackers looking for personal data to sell to fraudsters.  It is good that someone has found a way to let Blackberries file the information, but it's still not for me.  I'd rather access the government site directly.  And I certainly wouldn't buy a Blackberry (which without this problem would have been my first choice) just because you and the nitwit think it should work when people who have actually tried it say it doesn't.

Symantec has just produced an interesting comparison of iOS and Android security:

http://www.symantec.com/content/en/us/about/media/pdfs/symc_mobile_device_security_june2011.pdf?om_ext_cid=biz_socmed_twitter_facebook_marketwire_linkedin_2011Jun_worldwide_mobilesecuritywp

It doesn't demonstrate that I'm right, but it comes pretty close.  Besides, I'm not claiming to be an expert.  I'm more of a "where there's smoke there might be fire" type, regarding the security of Android devices.

[Croak]

Yeah, and at 500,000 activations a day, Symantec sees a huge market for Android spyware/malware protection software.  Apple won't let them sell for iOS in the App Store because it's an admission that there may be a problem.  

Garbage in, garbage out.  The difference is, Apple is the only form of garbage protection you have in iOS, whereas Google leaves that up to the end user.

[Oxblood]

As I said, all those forms are PDF's. There is no mystery to them. But hey, when you reply "just because you and the nitwit think it should work when people who have actually tried it say it doesn't.", it makes me want to help you even more.

I ought to have done as Croak suggested and just leave this one alone. But, he always did strike me as smarter than me. Now I am going to heed his advice. And put ajf on ignore.

[Reddog*]

Has anyone found an easier way to make 3G work in the US on an iPad?

Well looking at how my US ATT account works for my Iphone.
Do you have someone in the US that you could use their mailing address to setup a ATT account and use for a banking account?
All the banking account would need to be is a savings account to pay the bill from online.

I can see where the credit card is going to always be a problem with the non matching zips.

[ajf]

As I said, all those forms are PDF's. There is no mystery to them. But hey, when you reply "just because you and the nitwit think it should work when people who have actually tried it say it doesn't.", it makes me want to help you even more.

I ought to have done as Croak suggested and just leave this one alone. But, he always did strike me as smarter than me. Now I am going to heed his advice. And put ajf on ignore.

I didn't ask for your help, since clearly you know nothing about activating a Canadian iPad on AT&T.  The issue of the Blackberry dealing with the CBP forms was just mental masturbation on your part, trying to prove how smart you are.  And you're offended that I prefer the advice of people who have actually tried to do it?  Great!  You and Croak might as well be twins.

I'm always happy to learn new stuff, so when Croak puts up facts I read them.  But he has demonstrated multiple times that he has nothing to back up his opinions.  Looks like you belong in the same category.

[Croak]

I can back this up:  

That said, a .PDF is a .PDF is a .PDF, and Adobe makes software for RIM and Android to deal with them, both to read and edit.  Free software, I might add.

Oh, and:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/29/symantec-report-on-mobile-security-concludes-ios-and-android-bot/

[ajf]

Well looking at how my US ATT account works for my Iphone.
Do you have someone in the US that you could use their mailing address to setup a ATT account and use for a banking account?
All the banking account would need to be is a savings account to pay the bill from online.

I can see where the credit card is going to always be a problem with the non matching zips.

This is a better suggestion than I got from AT@T!  It sounds like it would work, but the amount of money involved isn't enough to justify the inconvenience.

I started the thread in case there is a simple way to do it that didn't occur to the AT@T people I talked to.  And if there weren't, it might be a useful warning to someone who really needs mobile internet on his iPad and otherwise wouldn't find out he can't get it from AT@T until he is already in the US.  (Another Bell employee at a different store just suggested this approach to me, so that makes three Bell employees who think it is easy to do.  I suspect this started when the iPad came out and for over a year neither Bell nor Telus provided a data plan that allowed roaming in the US.)

I've decided to go with Telus.  They charge a $35 activation fee but credit it back to your account - something I wasn't able to find out from their website.  As long as this is the policy, I'll be able to cancel the account for the winter and my total costs will be about the same as I originally hoped for using a Bell prepaid account in Canada and a prepaid AT@T account in the US.