Hayabusa Aux fuel system - tested and completed!

[Justin]

Finished up part one of my aux fuel project - plumbing everything for the main tank and routing to the aft.

Tomorrow I will mount up the 5 gallon Aux cell (Tourtank) and connect to the system

This is a 100% gravity fed system. The aux tank is higher than the main - so wait till the main tank is almost empty, throw the valve, and gravity will back-feed the main tank. System is 5/16 fittings and fuel line.

Was originally planning on using a bulkhead fitting, but the tank openings are way to small to correctly install one. I could not even get a hand halfway in the opening, never mind get a wrench on the fitting inside. So rather than risk a bad connection, I decided to go the weld-on bung route.

Tank and rear plastics off - fuel line laid in place.




3 washes with soapy water, then letting the hose run through the tank to rinse it for half an hour did the trick. Killed almost all gas odors. After washing the tank multiple times , I dried the tank with a shop vac, then rags - Then let it bake in the Colorado sun for the rest of the day.

By late afternoon it was ready to get the bung welded in. Got referral from a friend on another forum, and the guy hooked me up. He runs a race team out of his shop, and is a much better welder than me

This is a 1/4 NPT threaded bung welded into the tank.



A little closer in. The rough spot was due to some contamination causing the weld to bubble out.  After regrinding a bit the weld took better.



Got the tank back together, fuel pump assy back in, and elbow 5/16 barb into the tank. Threads sealed with TFE paste. The tank fitting also made a nice retainer for the tank's heat shields.



Tank re-installed showing the fitting on the bottom.



Rear of bike, under passenger seat showing the qucik disconnect fitting to make tank removal a breeze.



After all the plastics put back on.



After getting everything back together I put the ~1/2 Gallon of gas I had drained from the tank back in and headed down to the gas station to fill it up. I also added some crap to remove water from the fuel as a precaution after having washed the tank. The tank baked in the 90 degree sun all day after being dried with the shop vac/rags, so this was just a little added protection. After a quick ride with the tank full, I double checked everything, and no leaks anywhere. Finger tested everything and no stink finger.


That's it for part one. Everything is plumbed and ready to go for part two - getting the aux tank mounted on the back and hooked in. I pretty much have everything ready for that tomorrow (wood template drilled etc), so will be pretty quick. Just need to drill my mounting plate using the template, and attach to the existing rack.

Part two coming soon

[veefer800canuck]

Stink finger.  


Well, if you're riding in areas where you expect to not find fuel, then I guess this is useful.

Me, I can get ~350km from a tank on my VFR if I'm careful, that's 218 miles.

I'm usually needing a break after 3+ hours in the saddle, so a gas station break for some rehydration and a snack or maybe take a whiz is most welcome indeed!

[Justin]

Stink finger.  

What? It's a legitimate test!  

Well, if you're riding in areas where you expect to not find fuel, then I guess this is useful.

Me, I can get ~350km from a tank on my VFR if I'm careful, that's 218 miles.

I'm usually needing a break after 3+ hours in the saddle, so a gas station break for some rehydration and a snack or maybe take a whiz is most welcome indeed!

This is purely done with endurance/rally riding in mind. Without aux fuel it's hard to be competitive in a rally where everyone else does. Also, after my BBG1500 I am wanting to do more, and of course do bigger miles in less time. Stopped time on my last one is what got me. Did 1550+ in 23 hours with no fuel cell, as I had to make 9 fuel stops en route not including the start and finish. If I cut out four of those stops, would have been less than 22 easy. I am planning on a BBG3000 next year, so this is a must. If I can cover 1500 in 21 hours both days, that means I can sneak in 4-5 hours sleep in the middle.

As to hydration, that is covered as well. Will be mounting a bag to hold my water bladder on the tank

[Specter]

looks good!

btw, do not trust tourtank's gallon rating. They are completely unreliable in that regard. Otherwise they are an awesome value.  My 5 gallon is actually 4.73g.

[Justin]

looks good!

btw, do not trust tourtank's gallon rating. They are completely unreliable in that regard. Otherwise they are an awesome value.  My 5 gallon is actually 4.73g.

Thanks

And that's fine if it's a little off, and I expected that the to be the case after reading the "Please note that all liquid volume amounts are approximations" on their site  

It will still give me the range I am looking for, 350-400 miles. Thanks for the feedback.

[scottzilla]

Why do I think this will end up as a 150mph flaming streak across the horizon?

[Justin]

Why do I think this will end up as a 150mph flaming streak across the horizon?

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Nah it's all good and safe, and everything is being put together to high standards. Plenyy of bikes out there with aux cells without any problems.

[Mesachie]

Good write-up so far, Justin. Am looking forward to your maiden test run to see if gravity works well enough
to fully empty the aux tank.

[Justin]

Good write-up so far, Justin. Am looking forward to your maiden test run to see if gravity works well enough
to fully empty the aux tank.

Based on my initial measurements it should be fine. The bottom of the aux tank is only one inch lower than the top of the main. So there should be no issues transferring everything. I will update when completed.

[Specter]

It sure puts a smile on your face to see the fuel gauge go up

[Justin]

Some progress today between the 50 other things. Got it "mocked up"  - seeing how everything fit together.



Can't even see it from the back  



Hopefully tomorrow will have it all put together - then I can trim the mounting plate and clean everything up.

[st2sam]

WHOA...
Justin I'm impressed, great job so far. Now if it works?
Your really serious about LD riding, great.  Warchild isn't getting any younger.  
I can't wait to see the end results, thanks for the write up.......

[CLAY]

Good write-up so far, Justin. Am looking forward to your maiden test run to see if gravity works well enough
to fully empty the aux tank.

Very nice work man!  

[Justin]

WHOA...
Justin I'm impressed, great job so far. Now if it works?
Your really serious about LD riding, great.  Warchild isn't getting any younger.  
I can't wait to see the end results, thanks for the write up.......

Thanks No reason it wouldn't work. I had a similar setup on the XX with a Jaz cell that worked fine. It's all gravity, nothing complicated; if one tank is lower than the other gas will flow to the lowest point.

As to the other comment, I'd not go quite that far  - he's in a league of his own, and has records that will never be beat  

[Justin]

Almost done now - just a few small parts to clean up. Need to trim and paint the mounting plate and hardware. Need to find a good place to mount the puke tank and vent line. Other than that it's pretty much done.

From the side, looks big, but it's no wider than the tail bag. Ignore the mess in the garage  



Looking over the tank bag from the front. Had a piece of closed cell foam that used to be a butt pad (like for ball games etc). I used the mounting plate from the hump, and trimmed the foam pad to make a gasket around the plate - to cover up the hole where the rear seat/hump normally goes.



From the rear, can't see the tank past the tail bag.




That's pretty much it other than a few things to clean up. The plate is mounted with 2 stainless U-bolts and 2 stainless 5/16 bolts. Everything is secured with lock washers and nylon inserts nuts. The mounting rings for the tank use 4 5/16 stainless bolts. The two rear bolts are shared with the plate mounting.

[scottzilla]

Looking good.  Shooting for 500 miles between fill ups?

[Justin]

Looking good.  Shooting for 500 miles between fill ups?

Not quite  

350-400 is more realistic

[Justin]

Got it out for the first test today, and everything went well, except one thing; which could actually be a good thing. When Tour Tank says that liquid volumes are approximate, they are not kidding. Filled up the aux tank for the first time today, and it took 6 gallons on the side stand  . They advertise 5 gallons for the size I ordered (10”x20”). So I got an extra gallon. No problem, I'll take it  

This is on the side stand filled just to the filler neck.



It looks like the gravity system works flawlessly. Main tank was half way into reserve when I filled the aux tank. After throwing the valve, it took 20-21 minutes to fill the main tank just past the full line before I turned off the valve (I have one of those bikes that sits on full for about 70 miles, so it could have taken more). At that point I stopped an checked and there was about 2.5g left in the aux tank (eyeball measurement). Ran 100 miles until the main tank was down to about the halfway again, and turned the valve back on - and it gravity fed it back to full again and was still going strong before I turned it off. Checked aux tank again and it looks like there is still .5 to .75 gallons remaining. Once the main tank drops again, should be no problem feeding that in.

Anyway, looks like everything works flawlessly, and there will be no problems transferring everything from the aux to the main via gravity. Since the tank I ordered holds a gallon more than I expected, that means with the aux tank I have a range over 400 miles easily. Main tank is 5.5 gallons, and the aux is 6. Based on 40 MPG that translates to 460 miles. It also puts me right at the 11.5g limit for the IBR if I were ever lucky enough to get in  

The only issue is that the aux is bigger than the main, so it takes two transfers. I expect if I left it on, it would make the main tank puke out of the overflow, so I have to switch it off when the main is filled. Otherwise, everything is great, and I'm happy with the results . Only thing I may do different in retrospect is use a thinner piece of aluminum for the mounting plate. The 1/4 I used seems like overkill. It weighs @ 2lbs, although will be a tad less when trimmed up. The total setup weighs in at @ 40 Lbs when the aux cell is full (6 x 6lbs for the gas, and 4 Lbs for the tank and hardware).

Edit to add - the weight of the aux tank had a negligible affect on the bikes handling/ride when full. It's like having a 5 year kid riding on the back, since the tank is mounted right over the pillion area.

[scottzilla]

How nature says "Beware":

Busa rider flying down the hwy nestled between 11 gallons of gasoline.

[Justin]

How nature says "Beware":

Busa rider flying down the hwy nestled between 11 gallons of gasoline.

Oh ye of little faith   - Don't be such a hater.

[st2sam]

WHOA. (again)
OK, if turning the Aux tank on and off isn't a problem, can be done easily on the fly when your tired, excellent job.  
The only thing I'll suggest is rounding off the corners on  the mounting plate with a grinder.

Thanks for the write up and pics and can't wait for the report when it's put to "official" use...

[Justin]

OK, if turning the Aux tank on and off isn't a problem, can be done easily on the fly when your tired, excellent job.  

It's very easy turning it on and off, just reach behind my back with my left hand and turn the valve. Not hard at all.

The only thing I'll suggest is rounding off the corners on  the mounting plate with a grinder.

Yeap, that is already in the plans, any sharp edges will be ground down. I am also going to trim the sides so they match the angle of the mounting rails. Then will probably paint the mounting plate black.

Thanks for the write up and pics and can't wait for the report when it's put to "official" use...

No problem, just sharing what I learned as searches for info on Busa aux cells did not yield a lot of results when I started the project. Hopefully it will help someone.

And YES, I cannot wait to test it out for real. LOE 1000 rally is still 2 months away, it's going to seem like forever  

[Justin]

Just wanted to add that I was able to drain the aux completely dry by gravity, so mission is now 100% successful  

[Specter]

Be very deliberate about your fuel transfer process. If you overfill your main, it won't just overflow. It might cause your bike to stall, stumble or not start. The main tank needs some air space to function properly. I forgot to close my valve at my last fill up of a ten day rally. The bike coughed and spit terribly. I thought i was going to dnf, until I saw the valve and closed it. The bike quickly recovered and ran well from then on.

Also, make sure your main tank vents are clean and unobstructed. Otherwise pressure can build up and force fuel from the main back through the aux and dump a lot of fuel fast. This happened to a few FJR owners with similar setups.

[Justin]

Be very deliberate about your fuel transfer process. If you overfill your main, it won't just overflow. It might cause your bike to stall, stumble or not start. The main tank needs some air space to function properly. I forgot to close my valve at my last fill up of a ten day rally. The bike coughed and spit terribly. I thought i was going to dnf, until I saw the valve and closed it. The bike quickly recovered and ran well from then on.

Also, make sure your main tank vents are clean and unobstructed. Otherwise pressure can build up and force fuel from the main back through the aux and dump a lot of fuel fast. This happened to a few FJR owners with similar setups.

Thanks for the good advice. I pretty much knew not to overfill the main, but was not fully aware that overfilling could also cause performance issues like that. On my test run I ran it till it was just past the full line, where my bike will sit for 60-70 miles before it starts dropping quick till it get's close to empty; so I figure that should leave plenty of space. But I see what you mean, easy to make a mistake and leave it on.

Just curious, what size tank did you get? Is yours the 20 x 10? If so, Tour Tank's QC is a bit lacking if there could be that much of a variation (4.75 to 6+ gallons). I'm not disappointed, I got a bonus   - just seems a bit odd that there could be that much difference. Although I guess you really do not need to add a lot of diameter to a cylinder to increase volume by a gallon.

[Justin]

Hydration pack strapped to tank, is it too redneck?  

[richak]

It's beautiful, Justin, absolutely beautiful.

[Justin]

It's beautiful, Justin, absolutely beautiful.

Are you making fun of my water bag?  

[Specter]

Thanks for the good advice. I pretty much knew not to overfill the main, but was not fully aware that overfilling could also cause performance issues like that. On my test run I ran it till it was just past the full line, where my bike will sit for 60-70 miles before it starts dropping quick till it get's close to empty; so I figure that should leave plenty of space. But I see what you mean, easy to make a mistake and leave it on.

Just curious, what size tank did you get? Is yours the 20 x 10? If so, Tour Tank's QC is a bit lacking if there could be that much of a variation (4.75 to 6+ gallons). I'm not disappointed, I got a bonus   - just seems a bit odd that there could be that much difference. Although I guess you really do not need to add a lot of diameter to a cylinder to increase volume by a gallon.

I have the 8 x 24 size. Tour tank does not have any geometry skills, and can't calculate volume

I created a spreadsheet to calculate tour tank volumes. I can send it to anyone who PM's me. Anyone planning to use a tour tank on an IBR rally bike should carefully calculate the real volume based on the physical dimensions of the tank.

[richak]

Are you making fun of my water bag?  

 Water bag? I thought that connected to a catheter!  But, function over form. Nice job on putting it all together. I hope you can save the time you're looking for. Longer stops, but only half as many.  

[miles]

Be very deliberate about your fuel transfer process. If you overfill your main, it won't just overflow. It might cause your bike to stall, stumble or not start. The main tank needs some air space to function properly. I forgot to close my valve at my last fill up of a ten day rally. The bike coughed and spit terribly. I thought i was going to dnf, until I saw the valve and closed it. The bike quickly recovered and ran well from then on.

Also, make sure your main tank vents are clean and unobstructed. Otherwise pressure can build up and force fuel from the main back through the aux and dump a lot of fuel fast. This happened to a few FJR owners with similar setups.

I wonder if some sort of check valve and float system could be devised that would simply meter out fuel into the main as the level dropped...  It would be easy enough conceptually, but in practice it might be tough.  The way I would set it up is to have the float at about 1/3 the overall depth, so it would only partially fill the main.  In effect, your fuel gauge would go from full to 1/3 tank normally, but then park there until the aux was empty, then the gauge would drop the last third normally again.  The advantage would be that if you saw a quarter tank, you would know that it was accurate.  And of course, you wouldn't have to remember anything in your zombie-like state late in a rally.

[Justin]

I wonder if some sort of check valve and float system could be devised that would simply meter out fuel into the main as the level dropped...  It would be easy enough conceptually, but in practice it might be tough.  The way I would set it up is to have the float at about 1/3 the overall depth, so it would only partially fill the main.  In effect, your fuel gauge would go from full to 1/3 tank normally, but then park there until the aux was empty, then the gauge would drop the last third normally again.  The advantage would be that if you saw a quarter tank, you would know that it was accurate.  And of course, you wouldn't have to remember anything in your zombie-like state late in a rally.

I'm sure it could done; just not by me.    That sounds way out of my league (and budget). But for someone with the ability to do it, it would be a great idea. And man, I'd be stuck at 3/4 tank for like 3-4 hours with this setup.

[Justin]

So found one flaw in the system. After the testing I had noticed a slight gas odor coming from under the seat pan. After pulling it apart I found the quick connect from Sampson was leaking slightly. Not sure what the issue is, maybe a dud quick connect fitting? Or possibly too much vibration where it was under the rear seat. Anyway, I am going to redo the plumbing a tad so the quick connect is inline with the valve where access is easier. If I notice any more issues I'll try the quick connect Tour Tank sells, and see if Sampson will return the failing one.

[Specter]

Head down to the local hose shop and get a high pressure hydraulic connector with Viton o-rings.  They're a little larger, but they'll never leak.

[Justin]

Head down to the local hose shop and get a high pressure hydraulic connector with Viton o-rings.  They're a little larger, but they'll never leak.

Any chance you have a picture of one handy so I know what I'm looking for? Would that be something that comes in 5/16?

Edit:

This is what I have from Sampson

http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKER/menuitem.de7b26ee6a659c147cf26710237ad1ca/?vgnextoid=fcc9b5bbec622110VgnVCM10000032a71dacRCRD&vgnextdiv=&vgnextcatid=127939&vgnextcat=DM+SERIES+QUICK+COUPLINGS+-+NA&Wtky=DENTAL+PRODUCTS&vgnextfmt=EN

Apparently it is a high pressure hydraulic connection. I am thinking where it was located that the sleeve was getting jiggled which caused it to leak. I am going to relocate the connection and test it again.

[Specter]

Yours looks a lot like mine, except with plating.

[Justin]

Yours looks a lot like mine, except with plating.

Yeap, very close indeed - but as you said, it's plated over brass. I'll see how this one is after I play with the plumbing a bit.

[Justin]

Well, after a few more test runs the quick release if fine. I relocated it so it is where I can get to it easily with the tank on. So, everything is working fine at this point - can't wait to test it for real.

[Justin]

Found a $10 duffel bag at Walmart that fits the tank perfectly. Not sure if it's better with or without the bag  

[st2sam]

Found a $10 duffel bag at Walmart that fits the tank perfectly. Not sure if it's better with or without the bag  

IMO = It looks better with the bag cover.
I'll bet if you needed a place for a few note papers, paper maps, wires, ect., you could squeeze them in there somehow. I'd put them in a ziplock bag for water proofing.

[Justin]

IMO = It looks better with the bag cover.
I'll bet if you needed a place for a few note papers, paper maps, wires, ect., you could squeeze them in there somehow. I'd put them in a ziplock bag for water proofing.

The bag actually has a few pockets on the outside, one on the front and one side. On the other side is a mesh pocket that will be great for drying things on the road  . Can't stuff anything inside, as I removed the bottom of the bag to fit over everything - then secure it wish a bungie around the base.

[dm_gsxr]

I have my Tourtank mounted on my luggage rack (way at the back of the bike) and have used it more than once, especially up in Canada. Gas stations, especially in the Yukon are few and far between and are sometimes closed.

Looks good though. Did you get the IBA sanctioned tank? I don't see the drain valve on the tank. Maybe it's on the other side? It also is supposed to have the foam inside the tank. Or it was 3 years ago when I did mine.

Maybe I can snag your welder friend as I want to get the same connection for my 'busa.



Carl

[Justin]

Carl, the tank is IBR/Mera/other rally compliant. The tank is baffled, so that takes the place of foam, either is acceptable. Not all rallies require a puke tank, but I have one I can mount if needed. Also, I have sold the original tank as it wound up being to big and put me over the 11.5 total gallon limit a lot of rallies use. The volumes on Tour Tank's site is way off. I have ordered a new 10"x16" to replace the 10"x20", so it will not be as wide. With the new tank I will be at 10.5 gallons total.

I will dig up the contact info for the guy that did my tank bung and PM it to you. If you decide to go that route you will need to clean the tank really well. I found that washing a few times with soapy water, then washing with vinegar does really well.

[dm_gsxr]

Sounds good then. I didn't see it your description and they are somewhat picky about it

Mine holds about 4.7 gallons on the sidestand so I'm good for that part. I don't have the baffles though. I was wondering if the foam could be added after the fact or if I just have to get another and sell this one.

I did see your notes on cleaning the tank out though.

Thanks.

Carl

[Justin]

hmm, guess Tour Tank did not always add baffles - they do now. You can add foam as well after the fact, like the G-zero foam. Would be a bit cheaper than replacing the tank.

http://www.works-suspension.com/new_page_10.htm

Summit carries different sizes for racing cells as well

http://www.summitracing.com/search/?keyword=fuel%20cell%20foam&dds=1

[vwtom]

"I wonder if some sort of check valve..could be devised..."

That's what I was thinking too:



http://www00.mailcar.net/catalog/index.php?seller=sam_the_diesel_man&main_page=product_info&mode=s&schm=1&cLink=c&products_id=250925818815&psemtrk=google&utm_campaign=EcommerceStoreMarketing&utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=GoogleBase&utm_term=GoogleBase

That would prevent the backflow.