replacing second gear.

[Isotech]

Well ever since I bought this new bike (RF900R) second gear has been popping out with anything more then 25% throttle. Which means that 2nd gear probably has chewed up, and rounded off dogs on 2nd gear  

Really pissy considering I've had the bike 2 weekd, and that motor has a 5spd, 2nd gear is the twisties gear. The local shop has qouted me $2200 for just the labor for pulling the engine, and replacing the gear (and maybe shift fork).

Thats what I get for buying a used bike without a full testride. I made sure it ran, and first gear/clutch worked, but didn't get it into second gear. The seller didn't want to let me take it for a ride in rain  

So do I blow $3000 for a new 2nd gear, and two new rotors upfront (they were also warped when I bought it). Or do I sell the thing at a loss, and get another bike. I paid $2800 for this bike, so the repairs would cost more then what I paid for it. This RF900 has 33000 miles on it now.

Or...

Do get my friend, and pull the engine, split the cases, and do the work myself. (I do my own valve adjustments/carbs etc... but havent rebuilt a tranny or pulled a clutch before.)

Any suggestions.. I know I'm kinda screwed anyway I look at it.

and there are no RF900 engines on ebay... I looked.

-Nathan

[JamesG]

Bummer dude, I am going thru a similar problem with an old Geo tracker I bought...  Friggin' dishonest, chicken shit previous owners!!  

Doesn't the RF use the mid nineties GSXR engine?  You could replace it with a GSXR1100 motor...  You'd fix your gear box problem (unless the donor had the same problem. talk about vicious irony LOL!), get more power and six speeds to boot!

I would start looking on RF boards, yahoo groups, and perhaps even the old skewl suzuki site, for info and resources.

Even if you have to "just" rebuild your motor,  with the manual, tools, and a modicrum of mechanical skill it is possible to do the job yourself.  If you are willing to trade the time and skinned knuckles for the money you would pay the shop,  I would do it yourself.

Good luck!  

[Snowbird]

If that engine has split cases allowing you to leave the top end intact, flip it over to remove and repair the transmission, it's a piece of cake. Be sure to use a shop manual and internet resources for questions.

$2200 my arse.  

[comet]

My ’03 FJR with 42,000 miles had/has the exact same issues. I took it to the dealer and the second gear fork is bent causing damage to the transmission. Total bill for parts and labor is going to be $3,258. That includes replacing the entire internals of the transmission and new clutch and fluids. The real fun part is that some of the parts are back ordered with a ship date of April 17, one has no date listed at all. I generally do all of the mechanical work myself but looking through the shop manual the transmission looks a bit complicated to me and having never seen one taken apart with my own eyes I decided to go with the dealer route so if there are issues I can take it back. I had also contemplated moving on to a new bike, but I like the FJR a lot. It has been tailored over time to meet my needs exactly. So now I sit and wait. They have had the bike since the middle of February; this is the longest I have gone without riding daily in a decade. I do have a ’94 CB1000 I take out on weekends but it just isn’t set up to be a daily commuter in the rain. I hope that whichever route you take parts are available and you can be back to riding soon.

Comet

[photomd]

[smarta$$ coment]...and y'all thought BMW trannies were expensive!   [/smarta$$ coment]

Honestly it depends on how much you like the bike. If it's worth you're time to pull and engine and do the work, then go for it. If you're not into that, you can always ebay the parts to recoup your money. This is just a guess: usually a blown second gear indicates that bike has been drag raced. There aren't a lot of those running around, so I would think the plastics and other parts would ebay at a pretty good price. Good luck.

[FJRmgm]

"usually a blown second gear indicates that bike has been drag raced."

I disagree - it usually means someone just missed a full throttle shift.

[photomd]

"usually a blown second gear indicates that bike has been drag raced."

I disagree - it usually means someone just missed a full throttle shift.

...like what happens when someone drag races.  

Honestly, I'm just being a smarta$$. It really doesn't matter how it was done, but that coupled with warped rotors makes me think it's been raced. Anyway, I hope you're able to get it to the point you can use it like you want.

[Isotech]

Well here are some more details.

The rotors where *slightly* warped when I got the bike. The 2400 mile in 4 day trip I took from Seatle to LA finally killed them and the front tire.. mountain passes are fun at 85mph  

I already have the new EBC rotors and HH pads on order (at a cost of $577). I just going to have the dealer install them. I'm also going to get a fresh set of tires since I toasted the Dunlops on the passes in Oregeon (I swear they model there road surfaces after a cheese grater.. it's almost like chip-seal). I was thinking about Metzeler Z1's or BT020's (I really like them on my wife Ninja 650R). Anyone have some suggestions here? Whats a good sport-tour tire.

After far as second gear goes. I'm pretty sure it due to the ineptitude of the previous owner. I've already replaced the rolled slave clutch cylinder seal, and got a new nut that holds the sprocket on the counter shaft because some idiot stripped it. Also whoever previous blead the front brakes is a moron as well since the it still had air bubbles in it from the 3 month old brake service.

So I'm going to live with second gear for a bit. I'll try playing with what throttle setting causes it to pop out. Maybe if I stay into the throttle is won't pop out. It only seems to happen in 2nd gear at partial 10-20% throttle and just at 5800 RPM. de-accelerating is fine though. I can rev match from 3rd down to 2nd at 8K RPM and it will engine brake nice and smooth down to 2K RPM. All these symptoms lead me to believe that the dogs or slots are rounded because of a previous missed shift. Engaging second is just fine, so I don't think it's the shift drum or selector fork thats the problem. As to why it happen only at 5800 RPM with partial accleration   I was thinking that maybe there is a slight dip in the torque curve at that RPM, and that is just enough for the dogs to get unloaded a little bit, and slip out.

-Nathan

I love the damn bike though.

[Isotech]

Oh I forgot to mention. That motor is a GSXR 1100 lower end (crankshaft cases and tranny) mated to RF600R heads, and barrels. You *can* drop the engine, remove the clutch and alternator and side covers, slip the motor upside down and remove the lower case half without disrupting the crank. At which point you can get at the tranny. The gear and slider are fairly inexpensive at around 100-150. It's the shop labor that's expensive.

If me and my friend decide to do that, I document the entire process with pictures.

-Nathan

[JamesG]

So you have an RF900 with an RF600's cylinders and GSXR1100's transmission?

What were you smoking when you bought this frankenbike?!?

Anyway, wrecked 2nd gear isn't from racing, its from sloppy shifting in urban stop and go, 1st to 2nd to 3rd to 1st to 2nd to 1st to 2nd to... etc.

[Isotech]

Thats what the engine in the RF900R is. Suzuki took the bottom end from their GSXR 1100, and mated it to the head from the RF600R (with a different cam profile). I think they kept the stroke the same from the 1100, and bored out the rf600R cylinders a little to get 937cc. It was designed as a franken-engine from suzuki from existing parts  

I think they did a pretty good job on the engine. 118 rear-wheel horsepower, and 65 lbs of torque (80% available at 3500!). That 937cc pulls harder then my ZRX1200R did. It is kinda rough and nasty though.. it has some vibes, and sounds like a deisel at idle. It isn't what I would call refined.

The reason I mentioned it in my previous post is because most the GSXR 1100 parts are interchangable with the RF (from 93-97 GSXR). Some people have pulled the 6spd from the GSXR, and dropped it right into the RF.

-Nathan

[JamesG]

OK, I thought you meant it was literally built from pieces of those other bikes.

You would have to do more than bore "a little" from a 600 to make 900ccs. More likely they sleeved down the '92 GSXR-750 jugs for the RF600, and bored them out or used the 1100's as a basis for the 900. But they won't be identical (but perhaps interchangeable) parts.  Likewise with the heads. While they will have the same bore centers, details like valve spacing and water jacket and oiling passages can be different.

An RF engine should be as smooth as any other GSXR engine. If it sounds rough at idle then there is something else wrong with it. Carb sync would be my first guess, with price and PITA going up from there.

No, I'm really not trying to rain on your parade about this... sorry.

[Dr. Zorko]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Snowbird's got the right idea. It may seem a daunting at first to split the engine cases and head into the guts of the thing, but it's a good feeling after it's all done knowing you did it yourself. Have at 'er!

If you are looking for a set of tires, I can tell you I got great mileage out of a set of Michelin Road Pilots. They came with the bike when I bought it used. I put on 10,000 K since and they are just now starting to go. Not too bad I think. Mind you, I'm old and slow.

[Isotech]

Mr RF900R is dead.

I took it on a romp through downtown Seattle last night with my friend Glen. lots of quick 1-2-3 shifting. Notices the gearbox started sounding grindy. Shifting is fine but once it in gear I can hear and feel it.
So I noticed the chain was loose after my trip, and tightened it hoping that by some stroke of luck that was causing the problem....
no such luck.. the drivetrain lash is gone but the rocks in a folgers can full of oil sound is still there when Im under 4K RPM.




Anyone in the NW want a cheap RF900R  
-Nathan

[JamesG]

Sorry dude.  

But all is not lost. Its just that your "investment" is going to be more than you expected.
Your really in the same place you were, needing a new transmission.  The bike has just made it involuntary.

First thing is DO NOT even run the engine anymore. Probably a dog came off a gear while you were stomping on the shifter and got caught in the gears causing them to break. You now have lots of metal particles inside the cases. Beyond possibly getting into the gearsets again, they could get sucked into the lube system and wreck bearings and oil passages.

Your cheapest option is still to find a used engine somewhere and just swap it out.  Next is dropping and repairing the sick motor. You are now going to have to carefully inspect every component of the transmission for damage, and I would also look at the oil pump and the crank bearings. Replace anything that looks even remotely worn or damaged.  
But this is getting beyond what the novice mechanic can handle. If you have an experienced friend to help you it might improve your odds, but otherwise you should let someone who has done this before do it. You can decrease the cost by dropping the engine and getting it ready to strip down.  Its going to take months and multiple thousand dollars.  But in the end you should have effectively a new RF900 engine.
While the engine is out, you might as well go thru the entire rest of the bike, restoring it and fixing all the other little things that will be wrong with it.  

Again, my condolences. Like I said, I have gone thru a similar drama with a "cheap" Geo Tracker I recently bought. I now have close to twice what I originally paid for it in mods and fixes the PO failed to mention when I got it.
In for a pinch, in for a pound as they say...  
 

[Isotech]

OK some interesting observations. I noticed the chain was loose (really loose), so I tightened within suzuki spec it thinking that was the problem. It still made the noise, but.... It stopped skipping out of second gear.   The drive train lash is gone, and absolutely no skipping out of 2nd.

The noise is new as of fixing the clutch slave seal, and putting on a new counter-shaft nut. (This old one was stripped from previous owner and just spinning on the shaft trying to eat out of the sprocket side cover.

Maybe... the counter-shaft sprocket is loose or not torqued down enough, and it make the noise while rattling around (This noise only happens under 4KRPM. Or maybe I over torqued it.

Sound promising?

I'm going to pull the cover, counter-shaft nut, and sprocket today and inspect for damage/loosness. Also torque the nut back down to suzuki torque spec (now that I have access to my torque wrench at home) Make sure the rear wheel is aligned etc....

I gave it a fresh oil change before my trip to LA, but I'm going to drain the oil and see if Im getting any metal flakes in it or at the bottom of the pan.

Anything else I should be looking for while I'm down there inspecting the drivechain etc... I'm trying to rule out everything before I assume it the tranny.

cush drive?

[DogBoy]

Isotech, here is a complete RF900 engine for sale.

click me

[FJRmgm]

since tightening up the chain sorta fixed the problem I'd say you bought a bike with a totally worn out set of sprockets and chain.  Probably the originals with the bike.

The chain will loosen up again very shortly and it will buck and skip in gear.  

[Isotech]

OK updates... The crunchy noise I was getting I'm 98% sure was the chain. When I was on the trip the countershaft nut had backed off, and I'm sure had put the chain in someinteresting geometries as the sprocket wiggled back and forth. The chain has some nasty kinks and flat spots in it, and added to the fact that the bike wasn't doing it before the trip.

When it does make that noise I can feel the hiccup in power delivery.

So got a new chain (they don't make 532 anymore... so had to convert to 530), and got some new 530 sprockets in the stock ratios. $210 total.

To make my life easier, I also got some swingarm spools, and a rear tire stand... makes things much easier. $169 for those.
Add this to $577 for new front rotors and pads, and I still need to spoon some fresh rubber on there.


Bikes are almost as bad as a drug habit.

-Nathan

[FJRmgm]

some maintenance is always required when buying a used bike but hey - you still have a great looking machine...