It's official - new Norge better than BMW K16

[atadaskew]

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2011-moto-guzzi-norge-1200-gt-8v-review-91115.html

...shocked us when he said he preferred the Guzzi to the BMW K1600GT after riding the two successively. ...

[Orson]

BMW lost the plot.

the reason the boxer twin hung on for so long is that it works great at riding "the pace" thru the twisties

six cylinders might be great for crossing the prairies

[Hambonee]

I love my 07'...

I would hate to see how much I would love one of the new 8 valve Norges....

That BMW just seems too big while the Norge fits right in that nice sweet spot.

[crispiegee1]

BMW missed the boat by not making it a V engine... namely a 3.2 liter V12. Buncha wussies.

[blakebird]

by all accounts the new six is quite the engine....and put in a great motorcycle to boot.

I'd like to see it in "K1200R" guise, back to basics....but it's an impressive piece.

[staedtler]

   

[2DFlyer]

six cylinders might be great for crossing the prairies

but maybe not the rest of the bike?  According to Ms Elvidge in the Oct Motorcyclist "you couldn't have paid me triple to ride the BMW that far." east coast to CA.

I gotta agree with the commentator in the MC piece.  Sometime bikes get to be too much.  There's some interesting tech in the GW and K16's but my idea of a mile muncher is more along the lines of the Norge, FLHT, or that new Motus MST-R

[crispiegee1]

but maybe not the rest of the bike?  According to Ms Elvidge in the Oct Motorcyclist "you couldn't have paid me triple to ride the BMW that far." east coast to CA.

I gotta agree with the commentator in the MC piece.  Sometime bikes get to be too much.  There's some interesting tech in the GW and K16's but my idea of a mile muncher is more along the lines of the Norge, FLHT, or that new Motus MST-R

Not only that, how much engine do you need to cross a prairie? Were people prior to 2011 unable to cross a prairie for lack of cylinders or horsepower? Even on a 75 mph road, loaded with luggage, I have never lacked for power on my little 600, so I can't imagine that a 1-liter-plus twin would have difficulty maintain highway speed in any circumstance, including up steep mountain roads.

I am impressed that the BMW gets a report 40 mpg on the highway, since the idea of 35 mpg on a bike really turns me off, but if they offered a 800 cc triple that got 53 mpg, I'd take that one instead.

[Hambonee]

   

Ahhh..beautiful!!!

I have to agree with most people regarding the K16 in the sense of why do you need all that crud?

I went on a long ride for the first time this weekend to Leavenworth,WA on my new Norge. Nice mountian ride and was SOOO impressed by just the brute grunt my 07' has in the mountians. In 5th I could just twist the throttle and went from 55 to 80 in the blink of an eye with no effort on the bikes part going up the pass. So why would I need a 1600 on the plains? WHat does 400 more CCs and a ton more weight offer? As it is the Norge has a few too many do dads for me. If I wanted all those gizmos and engine I would buy a convertable auto. Riding to me is a good road, good engine, and two wheels...all the extra flair just sometimes gets in the way..

OH...BTW...that Guzzi engine around 5K-6K rpm when passing...just...just..wow!

[atadaskew]

I saw a BMW K16Gt this weekend, in LA at Washington/Lincoln.

The rider was wearing shorts, Hawaian shirt, no gloves, boating shoes.  He may have had a ff helmet butt I wasn't sure, I was so mesmerized by the rest of his get up.

You'll never see a Guzzi rider dressed like that.  On the bike...

[OrangeOkie]

BMW lost the plot.

the reason the boxer twin hung on for so long is that it works great at riding "the pace" thru the twisties

six cylinders might be great for crossing the prairies

You nailed it.  BMW has K1200LT for crossing the prairies in comfort.

[County Tar]

Nice review of the new Norge 8v on MD:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/09/2011-moto-guzzi-norge-gt-8v-md-ride-review-with-md-video-review/

The site owner and reviewer seems to have a fondness for Guzzis.

[crispiegee1]

Nice article, as it seems to honestly assess flaws of previous models, while not making oddities like the positioning of the windshield switch sound like a deal breaker.

When I see a price of over $15k, I start to wonder, "If I were a rich guy, would I want to spend an extra few thousand and just get a Multistrada?" But the Norge has shaft drive and the lower maintenance of a Guzzi engine. To me, the Guzzi is better looking too... WAY better looking, actually. Either would make a great touring mount.

[Spectreman]

The Norge is one of my fantasy bikes. I love its looks, performance, sound and overall goodness. It sings to me. Certainly one of the best engine & exhaust noises in all of motorcycle-dom.

But....the asking price is outrageous IMO. If they were to offer that bike in the $10g range, it might be doable but @ $15 large? No fargin' way, especially knowing Guzzi's spotty quality control record.

Then there's the lack of a dealer support network & parts availability. I live in a region of 6 million people, loads of bikes shops & not one sells/supports/works on Guzzis.

And then of course, there's the Guzzi "quirkiness" and build quality issues again.

If I was flush, I could probably see my way past these issues but I ain't & I can't so the Norge 8v will just have to remain a fantasy bike.
Lee

[blackbuell]

Good luck finding a comparable new touring rig for $10K--it would buy you 1/2 of an R1200RT.

Jon

[Hambonee]

The Norge is one of my fantasy bikes. I love its looks, performance, sound and overall goodness. It sings to me. Certainly one of the best engine & exhaust noises in all of motorcycle-dom.

But....the asking price is outrageous IMO. If they were to offer that bike in the $10g range, it might be doable but @ $15 large? No fargin' way, especially knowing Guzzi's spotty quality control record.

Then there's the lack of a dealer support network & parts availability. I live in a region of 6 million people, loads of bikes shops & not one sells/supports/works on Guzzis.

And then of course, there's the Guzzi "quirkiness" and build quality issues again.

If I was flush, I could probably see my way past these issues but I ain't & I can't so the Norge 8v will just have to remain a fantasy bike.
Lee

What tourer would you get for 10K other than a bare bones bike you would have to spend another several K outfitting to be a tourer? Now..that being said Moto International had(still has?) a bunch of new 07'-09 Norges for 10K and under and yeah..I snapped one of those up lickity split! That is the odd exception though.

As for build quality issues...huh??? I know they have some issues(as does EVERY bike) but build quality is not one. My Norge , even as a 07', is amazingly well built. Besides, over several years they have worked out most of what kinks it would have had. Every review of the 11' Norge has said it is super well put together and Guzzi engines have a great reputation of long life.

Yes its and expensive bike and they put a bit too much plastic on the 11' for my tastes but for 15K it's still right in the running with the rest of the equivalent competition and from the sounds of it it is trouncing them!

[Biking Sailor]

My opinion is the Piaggio owned years are looking like the brand is taking an upswing in quality and design (not in the crowd wearing red suspenders and a corn cob pipe     ).  They are coming out with some new designs and improvements and the "problems" are getting worked out.  I'm sure some of the dealers and technicians could speak to this with a more experienced opinion, but having two late model Guzzi's and quite a few metric bikes in the garage, I personally think the Guzzi product offering is moving in the right direction.  Now if only sales and dealer coverage can keep up.

If cash flow would allow me, I would be trading my 1200 Sport (reluctantly because I'm really enjoying it) on a 2012 Stelvio NTX when they are available because of the design and improvements Guzzi has put into it.  Looks like they have done a good job hitting the target with that bike.  I don't think you could go wrong with a new Griso, Stelvio, or Norge.

[atadaskew]

.

But....the asking price is outrageous IMO. If they were to offer that bike in the $10g range, it might be doable but @ $15 large?

Name one competing bike with the same specs (shaft drive, matched hard luggage, full fairing, comfy for 2 etc) that is $10K.

[County Tar]

I see 2V Norges at pretty good discounts these days.  The 8V (4v/head) will follow suit if they don't sell.  

[atadaskew]

The reason they don't sell in the US is:

1/  Piaggio USA spends zero promoting/advertising them so the majority of people do not know they even exist.

2/ As no-one  seems to be buying, Piaggio USA thinks it's not worth promoting.

3/ And vice-versa.

I wonder if they even have a marketing dept...

[falconati]

In my opinion, the largest single reason is dealer network.

[crispiegee1]

In my opinion, the largest single reason is dealer network.

...says the owner of an MV Agusta and an Aprilia.

 

But you're right.  With more exposure, people would ride them and like them.

[Spectreman]

MG owners are so loyal & defensive of their bikes! I applaud you guys. Obviously they bring out your emotions & what better way can you say you love your bike?

On the other hand, for far less than the asking price of of a new Norge, one could acquire a Bandit 1250  @ year end closeout for under $10g's, a Kawasaki Ninja 1000 for even less, outfit them equally as well, have more power and Japanese reliability & a dealer network support. And if you wanted to spend a few $$ more, attain some more of the stock amenities the Norge has, you could also easily pick up a leftover FJ1300 or C14. Ok, so you'd lose some of the cachet of being the only kid on the block who owns an MG but you'd probably survive.

As for quality & reliabilty, well the last couple Norge's I saw sitting on the showroom floor had parts that looked like they had been cobbled together in someone's garage. I was really surprised and disappointed in the build quality I saw. And I've read enough articles from folks who visited the MG factory that should make any buyer nervous. Perhaps since Piaggio bought MG, build quality has improved?

I'm not knocking the Norge fellas. There is an air of distinction which surrounds them, the myth of MG, the sound, the simplicity in design, the "enough is enough" mentality when it comes to practical power. I get it. If I could afford one, I'd own one but I can't so all I can do is talk about them.  Honestly don't mean any offense to anyone who owns one & am glad you like your bike.
Lee.  

What tourer would you get for 10K other than a bare bones bike you would have to spend another several K outfitting to be a tourer? Now..that being said Moto International had(still has?) a bunch of new 07'-09 Norges for 10K and under and yeah..I snapped one of those up lickity split! That is the odd exception though.

As for build quality issues...huh??? I know they have some issues(as does EVERY bike) but build quality is not one. My Norge , even as a 07', is amazingly well built. Besides, over several years they have worked out most of what kinks it would have had. Every review of the 11' Norge has said it is super well put together and Guzzi engines have a great reputation of long life.

Yes its and expensive bike and they put a bit too much plastic on the 11' for my tastes but for 15K it's still right in the running with the rest of the equivalent competition and from the sounds of it it is trouncing them!

[blackbuell]

No offense taken, Spectreman. You sound like an informed and reasonable guy. Yes, Guzzi's have their short-comings, but not of the type or substantial enough to turn me away from ownership. My Norge, with its excessive cheapass plastic, is rapidly becoming my favorite bike of all time.

BTW, I bought my Norge new (leftover '09) a year ago for $10K,

Jon

[atadaskew]

On the other hand, for far less than the asking price of of a new Norge, one could acquire a Bandit 1250  @ year end closeout for under $10g's, a Kawasaki Ninja 1000 for even less, ...

Doesn't matter.  Those two have chain drives, are ugly, and haven't been described as better touring bikes than the amazing new BMW K16.

The Norge 8V has.

 

[Spectreman]

I will never understand the big hang up about chain drives. I've had both chain and shaft driven bikes & to me, it's a toss-up- no way it'd be a deal breaker just cuz a bike was lacking a shaft. It's not really that hard to maintain a chain!

I wouldn't call the B1250 or the Ninja1000 ugly- they are as equally distinct in appearance as the Norge. As for the Beemer, well lemme be polite and say that too is a non-issue as a Beemer wil never darken my garage.

Ok, so here's the deal- you guys chip in and help me buy a leftover '11 Norge in white. I'll need you guys to 'donate' about 78% of the cost & I'll take care of the rest. Deal?  
Lee

[Flying W]

Doesn't matter.  Those two have chain drives, are ugly, and haven't been described as better touring bikes than the amazing new BMW K16.



 I got 30k miles out the stock chain and sprockets of my ugly 1250 so it really isnt an issue. As far as a sportourers go with the factory hardbags and trunk and the suzukis torque rich motor I rate it more versatile,much lighter and just more fun to ride than my 05 FJR .. I will own a Guzzi one day, just not sure if it will be a Griso 8V (motorcycle art in my book )or a Norge. Oh and IMHO the new BMW 1600's are both fugly.

[Hambonee]

MG owners are so loyal & defensive of their bikes! I applaud you guys. Obviously they bring out your emotions & what better way can you say you love your bike?

On the other hand, for far less than the asking price of of a new Norge, one could acquire a Bandit 1250  @ year end closeout for under $10g's, a Kawasaki Ninja 1000 for even less, outfit them equally as well, have more power and Japanese reliability & a dealer network support. And if you wanted to spend a few $$ more, attain some more of the stock amenities the Norge has, you could also easily pick up a leftover FJ1300 or C14. Ok, so you'd lose some of the cachet of being the only kid on the block who owns an MG but you'd probably survive.

As for quality & reliabilty, well the last couple Norge's I saw sitting on the showroom floor had parts that looked like they had been cobbled together in someone's garage. I was really surprised and disappointed in the build quality I saw. And I've read enough articles from folks who visited the MG factory that should make any buyer nervous. Perhaps since Piaggio bought MG, build quality has improved?

I'm not knocking the Norge fellas. There is an air of distinction which surrounds them, the myth of MG, the sound, the simplicity in design, the "enough is enough" mentality when it comes to practical power. I get it. If I could afford one, I'd own one but I can't so all I can do is talk about them.  Honestly don't mean any offense to anyone who owns one & am glad you like your bike.
Lee.  

Not getting deffensive but a bit confused. I find you very defensive of your japanese bikes along the same line as MG riders. Just because you can buy a japanese bike for the money doesn't make it beter..and it's more than character. Try compairing the cost of doing a valve check/adjustment on a Norge compaired to any Parallel twin or 4 cyl japanese bike. The cost is tons lower and on many bikes it's the same interval. Build quality is tons better since  Piaggio bought MG and guess what..the plastics on the last two ninjas I owned was just as bad if not tons worse than my 2007 Norge. I can tell you first hand the plastics on the 2011 are pushing BMW quality. Here again..they are improving on a new model from lessons learned. My point is that ride what you like and when a manufacturer does it right give them credit, MG has in the 2011 Norge. They fixed it's issue and put out a bike that will, for the same price, easily compete with any Japanese, Italian, or German bike.

Look at the warranty alone. With MG you get 2 years plus roadside assistance that covers everything. With Kawi or suzuki you get a 1 year limited that , on the kawi side, doesn't even cover seals!!! If the bikes are so superior why doesn't the warranty reflect that? Besides, the bandit and ninja are butt ugly and have pretty much zero character. Once you ride a Guzzi you might find yourself converting over...Plenty of good used ones you can get for around 5-6K..

[atadaskew]

 

I wouldn't call the B1250 or the Ninja1000 ugly

The Queen of England, do you find her attractive too?
I'm just trying to figure out a baseline here.

[GS1100GK]

I will never understand the big hang up about chain drives. I've had both chain and shaft driven bikes & to me, it's a toss-up- no way it'd be a deal breaker just cuz a bike was lacking a shaft. It's not really that hard to maintain a chain!

I wouldn't call the B1250 or the Ninja1000 ugly- they are as equally distinct in appearance as the Norge. As for the Beemer, well lemme be polite and say that too is a non-issue as a Beemer wil never darken my garage.

Ok, so here's the deal- you guys chip in and help me buy a leftover '11 Norge in white. I'll need you guys to 'donate' about 78% of the cost & I'll take care of the rest. Deal?  
Lee

OK, Lee.  I'll donate a quarter (.25Cents) to the cause...who else is with me!!!

Doug

[GS1100GK]

OK guys...I'll fess up.  I was very, very, tempted to buy an 08 when I bought my 09 C-14 with ABS and actually put about 60 miles worth of demo rides on one.  I got my 09 in Sept. 08 with a $2,000 discount and out the door price of $13,000.00.  The same 08 Norge was about $16K (tax and tags).  On a tight budget that extra $3,000 (plus 40hp and 16 lbs of torque) really makes a difference.  To put out the extra cash for the Norge you really, really, really would have to WANT the Norge.  If the prices were closer, I may have bought the Norge.      

[Spectreman]

The Queen of England, do you find her attractive to?
I'm just trying to figure out a baseline here.

You don't think the Queen is a looker? You wouldn't toss her one if she asked?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some guys think the Yamaha Vmax is a good looking bike, ditto for the Victory Vision. Who's to judge what bike looks good other than its owner?

I think the Norge is a stunner but I do not find anything offensive about the B1250 or the N1K either.
Lee

[Spectreman]

OK, Lee.  I'll donate a quarter (.25Cents) to the cause...who else is with me!!!

Doug

Now that's being pretty damn cheap. I'm offended and won't take your quarter. Somebody show Doug how it's done and donate $4g's to the cause.
Lee

[Spectreman]

Nah, not defensive about Jap bikes but they are all I know & all I've ridden for the last 35+ years. I've been scared away from Euro bikes but good on Piaggio for bringing MG's quality up to date.

Now about that donation....
Lee

Not getting deffensive but a bit confused. I find you very defensive of your japanese bikes along the same line as MG riders. Just because you can buy a japanese bike for the money doesn't make it beter..and it's more than character. Try compairing the cost of doing a valve check/adjustment on a Norge compaired to any Parallel twin or 4 cyl japanese bike. The cost is tons lower and on many bikes it's the same interval. Build quality is tons better since  Piaggio bought MG and guess what..the plastics on the last two ninjas I owned was just as bad if not tons worse than my 2007 Norge. I can tell you first hand the plastics on the 2011 are pushing BMW quality. Here again..they are improving on a new model from lessons learned. My point is that ride what you like and when a manufacturer does it right give them credit, MG has in the 2011 Norge. They fixed it's issue and put out a bike that will, for the same price, easily compete with any Japanese, Italian, or German bike.

Look at the warranty alone. With MG you get 2 years plus roadside assistance that covers everything. With Kawi or suzuki you get a 1 year limited that , on the kawi side, doesn't even cover seals!!! If the bikes are so superior why doesn't the warranty reflect that? Besides, the bandit and ninja are butt ugly and have pretty much zero character. Once you ride a Guzzi you might find yourself converting over...Plenty of good used ones you can get for around 5-6K..

[GS1100GK]

Now that's being pretty damn cheap. I'm offended and won't take your quarter. Somebody show Doug how it's done and donate $4g's to the cause.
Lee

 

[jdgretz]

When Kaming told me he had ridden the new Norge, I obviously asked him what he thought (I had not seen the write-up yet).  His biggest complaint was that there was no ground clearance - he was always scraping something - then again, he's a pretty aggressive sport bike rider.  As much as he liked the BMW power and comfort, it's just too long for getting aggressive in the canyons even though the wheelbase is only 2.5" longer.  It may be a fun bike on long sweepers, but for running up and down Latigo, Decker, etc., it's the wrong tool for the job.  That 2.5" longer wheelbase and 5.5" longer overall seems to make a big difference.

He has never ridden a 2v Norge so has no baseline for comparing the two.

Interesting article, however.

jdg

[atadaskew]

Back 'in the day' Kaming would occasionally join my riding crew for our sorties in the Santa Monica mts to Ojai etc.
He was (still is?) a very  aggressive rider.  He had a terrible accident when his Duc 996R went into a tank slapper on Mulholland passing a minivan.  I think he had to have some discs fused.

Good to see he is still really active. He has an interesting past - I think he was a test rider for Yoshimura at one point, but I may be wrong..

Anyway, for a guy like him to be jazzed by the Norge says a lot.