New tire blues :( :(

[gregm784]

I mounted my Avon's last night. I removed all the weights on both rims and used dyna beads when the tires went back on.  Both rims and tires where wiped down spotless, the beads were poured in and tires mounted (no spilled beads).

Tonight's 20 mile ride to break them in a little for this weekend revealed a front end wobble on decel.  That isn't ok with me!  Dyna beads come with great recommendations, so i 'assume' they are doing their job.  Do these Storm 2 tires usually result in this?  

Of course you could say "tighten your head stem bearings", but i've ridden 3700 miles in two months on dunlops and never once ever experienced anything like this.  I can feel it try to start the wobble just cruising at 65 if i relax my hands on the bars.

My steering is looser than the common "Tighten it until it won't flop to the side while the tire is off the ground".  It is pretty free to turn.  It always has been.

Why would changing to a new tire force me to readjust my bearings.  Isn't that hiding the real problem here?

[miles]

Some treads just disagree with some bikes.  

[kevin_stevens]

I've stayed away from Avons for years, because much more consistently than any other brand, I've heard anecdotes about QC issues with balance and wobbling.  I'd start there if your dealer will let you.

KeS

[gregm784]

One thing i'm worried about with snugging up the headset is slowing down the steering.  Because i've never made them tighter, i don't know what it will do to the feeling of turning the bike.

[miles]

If the bearings have no slop in them now, don't tighten them.

[coho]

Some treads just disagree with some bikes.  

This ^

I've stayed away from Avons for years, because much more consistently than any other brand, I've heard anecdotes about QC issues with balance and wobbling.  I'd start there if your dealer will let you.

KeS

And this ^

[Castaway]

The wheel may be out of balance still. Another thing to consider is that new tires have no flat spot in the middle so they are much more sensitive to input, whether it's from the rider, the road, or the wheel being out of balance. It's probably not true for all Avons, but I recall a friend putting them on and the profile of the front was crowned more than usual, providing quicker steering but also making the bike more 'jittery.' When you put the tires on, was the dot on the sidewall aligned with the valve stem? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the first step towards getting the wheel balanced.

[gregm784]

If the bearings have no slop in them now, don't tighten them.

What is the proper pre-load on those bearings?  They are tapered bearings, correct?  roughly 1 1/4"?

[JSharp]

I had Avons on my C-10 and wasn't impressed. They were sticky enough for that bike but never all that stable. It would dance around in dirty air and it was impossible to hold a line in a corner. It got worse as the tires wore.

[Giaka]

Tonight's 20 mile ride to break them in a little for this weekend revealed a front end wobble on decel.  That isn't ok with me!  

I had Avons on my old connie for all of 200 miles. Took them off and sold them. Worst front end wobble I have ever experienced on any bike. Its the tread design on the front tire that does it. Everyone on COG tried to tell me to tighten my steering stem bearings on a bike with less than 4000 miles. I guess they think adding extra bearing pressure is the same as a steering dampner? Oh well I knew better so I took them off and never bought another set of Avons. There are  BETTER options out there.

[kevin_stevens]

What is the proper pre-load on those bearings?  They are tapered bearings, correct?  roughly 1 1/4"?

So you had a bike that worked fine.

You changed one part (tires).

The bike stopped working fine.

But you've decided to adjust a different part (bearings) to fix it?

 

Steering head bearings are generally speced to just swing from center to side at a light touch.  Some manufacturers have an initial preload torque with a backoff and final torque in ft-lbs or degrees, however.  Have fun.

KeS

[gregm784]

So you had a bike that worked fine.

You changed one part (tires).

The bike stopped working fine.

But you've decided to adjust a different part (bearings) to fix it?

 

Steering head bearings are generally speced to just swing from center to side at a light touch.  Some manufacturers have an initial preload torque with a backoff and final torque in ft-lbs or degrees, however.  Have fun.

KeS

That is my problem too.  Yes, it worked great. I changed the tire and now it isn't so great.  

What front tire should i run? Which tire will work well with the rear tire (av46 Avon)?

[gregm784]

There are  BETTER options out there.

Care to share?  What did you go to after the Storm2 front?  (assuming that was the tire you had).

I also have a brand new AV46 Avon on the rear.

[Andrew]

Try dropping the tire pres a few pounds, see how it feels and adj as needed.

May not be a 100% fix but, Cheaper than another tire

[UHOH]

You changed two things:
* different brand of front tire, and
* very different approach to balancing front tire.

1st I'd try a different tire pressure, probably increase it, and hope.
2nd I'd remove those DynaBeads, which I've heard three things about (1-they're likely to spill when you dismount the tire, 2-my 'tire expert' says they don't work, 3-nobody I know has ever admitted to trying them).  
Go back to the weights that are standard for you.
3rd try a different front tire. (*)

I don't know how to factor in your bearing concerns.

(*) I've used Storm I fronts for long long time and nary a problem.
Just 4200 miles into Storm II's and working well so far.   FJR1300.
Since I've had good results with Avon for maybe 45,000 I'd bet your balancing experiment is the likely suspect.

Hope you post up what you find.  
Would be bad if you both get a different tire and remove the DynaBeads,
then we wouldn't know what caused it...

[Justin]

2nd I'd remove those DynaBeads, which I've heard three things about (1-they're likely to spill when you dismount the tire, 2-my 'tire expert' says they don't work, 3-nobody I know has ever admitted to trying them).  
Go back to the weights that are standard for you.

I've heard two things about them. First thing, they work. Second thing, they don't work. I'd say more often than not, people report they work well. However, other people have tried them and thought they sucked. There is a massive thread on ADV about them with different results for different folks.

Personally, I'll just stick with traditional balancing.

And +1 on miles's comment above. Not every tire is a great match for every bike.

[garry]

I tried a set of Continental Conti-Motion tires on my KTM 950 SMR last go-round. I never had any issues with wobble on decel before (40K miles, Pirellis and Dunlops), but now the front does a little shimmy on decel if my hands are off the bars. Nothing scary, but I suspect it's just a case of the tire not being a great match to the bike. That said, I don't normally ride with my hands off the bars, but will do that to stretch/etc sometimes and noticed the bike was behaving differently.

[Cablebandit]

Some tires just wobble.  If this type of tire is one of them changing it out is the only answer.

I've used the Dynabeads on my Vstrom with great success.  However, I did need to add a little more than the recommended amount to the front tire to get is glass smooth.  The front tire always took a lot of lead to balance it before switching to the beads so adding more beads made sense.

[billo]

The Avons have somewhat of a reputation on the ST-owners forum for decel wobble.  I was ok with that, thinking I'll just keep my hands on the bars since most complaints were hands free.  Then I grabbed a major handful of brake at a ... higher speed and got some real headshake.  Scared me into replacing those half worn tires. No problem now.

Bill

[Giaka]

Care to share?  What did you go to after the Storm2 front?  (assuming that was the tire you had).

i don't think the storm was out yet (6 or 7 years ago). Maybe it was but I honestly don't remember. I think I switched over to either GTs or 880s at that point. Soon afterwards I bought an ST1300 and sold the connie.

[ConPilot1]

I've heard that there were quite a few Avons that were out-of-round and damn near impossible to balance properly.
I run the dynabeads in my Connie, they're great. No problems. We'll see what happens when I put my Metzler's on soon.

[tomek]

I've stayed away from Avons for years, because much more consistently than any other brand, I've heard anecdotes about QC issues with balance and wobbling.  I'd start there if your dealer will let you.

KeS

+1

[maddjack]

My 2 cents, yep the tire. Also , do NOT adjust the head bearings unless they need it, overtightening shortens life and can cause wierdo handling and can notch them. If the adjustment is good ,LEAVE THEM ALONE. Its a BS fix

[photomd]

I'll dogpile the Avon QC issue on modern bikes. I had some  on my oilhead and they cupped badly. They were so bad that in 2000 miles the front felt like it was going over ripples: worse at any lean, but could be felt in a straight line.

That being said, Avon Roadriders are the best tires for classic bikes. I can lean and lean and lean on my airhead and Guzzi. The tires are smooth and stick to the road great. I have no idea why they can't get their modern tires right.

[ConPilot1]

2nd I'd remove those DynaBeads, which I've heard three things about (1-they're likely to spill when you dismount the tire, 2-my 'tire expert' says they don't work, 3-nobody I know has ever admitted to trying them).  

1 is true. So what. Put new ones in.

2 is pure BS


3 is pure BS



I've run them in three sets of tires. They DO work, and work very well. 2 of my bike wrench buds have been running them also with great success.

[Windblown]

Avons & C10 Connies with a decel wobble are like PB&J. they just kind of go together.

[bikefreak47]

When the original Avon "Storms" were released one US tire vendor finally put a "Do Not Recommend" on the front Storm because of all the complaints and returns. I've never had any problems with the Storm predecessor, the AV 45/46 pairing. They're the only tires I've ever experienced that's gone 7,000 miles on the rear.

[photomd]

When the original Avon "Storms" were released one US tire vendor finally put a "Do Not Recommend" on the front Storm because of all the complaints and returns. I've never had any problems with the Storm predecessor, the AV 45/46 pairing. They're the only tires I've ever experienced that's gone 7,000 miles on the rear.

yep...mine was a strom.

[DaisyCutter]

I mounted my Avon's last night. I removed all the weights on both rims and used dyna beads when the tires went back on.  Both rims and tires where wiped down spotless, the beads were poured in and tires mounted (no spilled beads).

Tonight's 20 mile ride to break them in a little for this weekend revealed a front end wobble on decel.  That isn't ok with me!  Dyna beads come with great recommendations, so i 'assume' they are doing their job.  Do these Storm 2 tires usually result in this?  

Of course you could say "tighten your head stem bearings", but i've ridden 3700 miles in two months on dunlops and never once ever experienced anything like this.  I can feel it try to start the wobble just cruising at 65 if i relax my hands on the bars.

My steering is looser than the common "Tighten it until it won't flop to the side while the tire is off the ground".  It is pretty free to turn.  It always has been.

Why would changing to a new tire force me to readjust my bearings.  Isn't that hiding the real problem here?

It might not be your bearings.

I bought a new Triumph Sprint in 2008.  After 5,000 miles I got a new set of Conti Road Attack tires.  I loved those tires on my ZRXs, they wore well and stuck good, and the price was amazing.  I've bought several sets.


I put the new Road Attack tires on my Sprint...  Low and behold the Sprint had a nasty headshake, really nasty at ~45mph on decel.  The Sprint was under warranty, so I had everything looked at... torqued, tightened, re-balanced, etc.  The problem never went away.

I've done the another 5000 since then, and I can't wait to get some different treads, because it's almost time.




For whatever reason the geometery of my bike coupled with the geometery of the Continental tires generated a wobble at the resonate frequency of the steering.  I've let the bars go and get up to 5-6 inches of movement at the bar-end, which is real close to tank-slapper land.


The Sprint also wore out these tires faster than the old ZRX1200Rs did, which doesn't make sense to me either, because I rode the ZRX like I stole it...  although I put more 2-up miles on the Sprint.


I'll try a different brand of tires next.




I think in your case, blame the tires not your steering stem.  Your bearings didn't just magically go bad or get loose.

[andras]

... but now the front does a little shimmy on decel if my hands are off the bars. Nothing scary, ...

My bike does the same with some front tires that have a strong zig-zag center tread pattern.
Can't be felt with hands on the bars.

Before adjusting the bearing, lift the front and check for looseness and preload.
Looseness can be felt and heard when braking, too.  Preload is easiest with a spring scale.