Looking at a C10. What's to know.

[2DFlyer]

So as summer makes way for thoughts of cold weather riding I've got an itch for something that will punch a bigger hole in the air.  I don't want, need, or am able to afford something like an FJR, C14, or ST1300 so the first thing that comes to mind is a late model C10 but I really don't know much about them.  This one is a day trip away and seems to be a great bargain.   What does the collective wisdom think?

Other than being 80's technology what does the uninitiated need to know - the good and the bad - about the C10.  

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2006-Kawasaki-Concours-99649203

[Sunhunter]

Good- easy to work on, great wind and weather protection, has good power, loads of farkles available, very economical for most things except good tires.

Bad- It has horrid braking, a super soft suspension that will absolutely make you look for new springs and shock, can be very hot compared to an air or oil head, and lacks any of the "comfort" features you may have had on some of your other bikes.  Tends to seem "busy" in turbulence and some can buzz your hands until numb.  Oh yeah tire selection is really limited and not cheap for a good one!



Had one for a few years, but went to a R1150RT with no regrets.

Good luck!

[2DFlyer]

Thanks.  Tires.  One reason why I passed on a bike a couple of years ago.  This looks to be a bit better but a matching set might be a problem

[Windblown]

Thanks.  Tires.  One reason why I passed on a bike a couple of years ago.  This looks to be a bit better but a matching set might be a problem

Avons, Bridgestones, Dunlop, and a few "wing" sizes which are actually a bit over sized are the common options.  Did I mention I have an '04 that I'd really like out of the garage? (why yes, yes I did, but in another thread. LOL)

[2DFlyer]

Avons, Bridgestones, Dunlop, and a few "wing" sizes which are actually a bit over sized are the common options.  Did I mention I have an '04 that I'd really like out of the garage? (why yes, yes I did, but in another thread. LOL)

Yes.  Yes you did.  And it is tempting...

[spd2918]

http://www.zggtr.org

[sprk_sprd]

2DFlyer,

I hope you don't mind me piggybacking on your thread, but I've also been interested in the C10 as a possibility.  One question I've had is do the OEM saddlebags lock?

Thanks.

[ConPilot1]

Yes the OEM saddlebags lock. 2 latches on each bag. They lock to the mounting brackets as well.

The Connie buzz is hit or miss. My '05 is very smooth and I've never had hand numbing/buzz issues through a 10 hour day.
The suspension is a bit soft, the frame is a little flexy, but it's a GREAT all-around bike all purpose machine. The thing starts up in a split second,
there's no "cranking" to start. I just pop the starter and it fires right up.

You need to get used to the weight, and the fairly high center of gravity. It's not a bike for the inseam challenged.
She is top heavy, and a bit unwieldy at crawl speeds. Once it's rolling, the bike is nimble and handles very well,
and she's very graceful and smooth handling at normal (speed limit) speeds.

You're not going to keep up with experienced riders on Speed Triples or similar. The bike is more "tour" with a good splash of "sport"
but I've seen guys thrash the living shit out of a Connie in the twisties.

The OEM windsreen sucks ass and has a lot to do with turbulence and buffeting. I put a Cee Baileys' 22.5" vented shield
on the bike and that smoothed things out a lot. The top box has a lot to do with turbulence also. Remove the top box
and the bike smooths out nicely. Turn the airscoops near your feet backwards in the winter, and turn them facing forward in the summer.

Watch the fairing screws for maintenance. They're all different sizes and it's helpful to make yourself a little cardboard template illustrating the
screw positions for the fairings, poke holes in the cardboard and stick the screws in.

Murphs fairing screw kit is a must. The OEM fairing screws are made of butter and you'll strip them out pronto. The belly pan is a bitch to reinstall,
some guys have made cut-outs with a dremel to access the oil filter and drain bolts. There's two drain bolts. Don't mistake the oil cooler line banjo bolts
for a main oil sump drain bolt. Get a Clymer manual.

Speaking of Murph, he is pretty much one-stop shopping for everything Concours and a hell of a good guy and very helpful.

You'll need bar risers right off the bat unless you're used to "sportbike" ergos. If you're an average build guy, 5-8 to six foot, the ergos should be perfect
without having to lower pegs or anything. The stocker seat is quite comfy and I've never found the need to look into another seat.
Baker Airwings help BIG TIME with heat, cold, and rain management, and for weather protectection I think it's one of the best bikes out there.

I don't have one, but plan on getting a fork brace. The forks, like the rest of the frame are a bit flexy and supposedly the fork brace really improves
handling. Maintenance is easy. The bike is rock-solid reliable and for a daily runner, commuter, or casual recreation bike it's hard to beat.

It will carry a pillion all day, in comfort, and you can load a ton of stuff on the bike. On the slab, the bike smoothes out and actually handles better
with a load. It's a pack mule if you're loading up for a long haul or camping.

One of the big fatal issues that plague the bike is a bent con rod from hydrolock, but there has to be two circumstances in place at the same time for that to happen,
a failed vacuum petcock, and a stuck needle in the carbs. Gas floods a cylinder and BAM! on startup the engine is f*cked. My Connie is a daily year-round runner, weather permitting, and
I believe that the bikes this happens with bikes that have been sitting with no carb maintenance and the diaphragm in the petcock dries up and breaks in conjuction with a stuck needle.
Keep her running, and I don't think it will happen. There are workarounds to this also like overflow drain tubes installed in the carb bowls.

There's huge aftermarket support for the bike, and COG Forums are the best source for info on the bike. Guys over there can answer ANY question and troubleshoot most any problem
and are quick and happy to offer advice and tech info. The bike can be farkled up to the moon, and the alternator can handle most anything you can add to it.

The suspension can be improved with a different rear shock, and front fork mods like different springs, different weight fork oils, and Racetech valve emulators.

Braking can be improved with steel lines and you can put 4 or 6 pot brakes on the front and different rotors.
Basically for modding the bike for improvements, your wallet is the limit. There's a LOT of performance mods that can be done.

Unless you're really pushing the bike and yourself, a lot of these are not needed and the bike is pretty much good to go stock, with the windscreen swap.
Tuned up, the damn thing will fly. The power really doesn't even kick in until 5,000 RPMS and after that, it's a monster. It will run at 7,000 RPMS all day long in the
mountain twisties with great throttle response.

Stock, most C10's have a flat stumble spot around 2200 RPMS but again, that can be eliminated with some simple mods.
The bike will grand-dad right right along in second gear at 1700 RPMS, I like to run 35 MPH commute road speeds around 3K or so.
Crack the throttle at 3500 RPM's and she'll accelerate like hell. The power delivery is very smooth and predictable.

If you're a speed devil and a total twisty bomber, it's not the bike for you. I've never ridden the C14 but I know that bike is a whole different animal.
The C10 is a bit scary at 100 MPH, but again, it's not the bike if you like to run into triple digit speeds which I don't for the most parts.

It's exceeding comfortable and a joy on the slab, and a real mile-eater.

Finding good rubber for the bike is getting to be a bit of a pain, and the bike is tire sensitive. Wrong tires, you'll curse the bike. Right ones, you'll love it. What feels right or wrong is all in the eye of the rider.
The Michelin Pilot GT in Gold Wing size was the best tire combo EVER for the bike, but f*ck Michelin all to hell sideways for
discontinuing that tire. Just follow tire recommendations over at COG. Again, a wealth of info over there.

I say go for it. It's a fantastic budget tourer and mile eater, and there's enough performance in there to keep a fairly conservative rider like me happy.
There's a reason the bike was made for 20 years. If Kaw updated the same bike with FI, a better suspension and braking with the same body style and with the same motor or a 1200, I'd buy another one
in a freaking heartbeat and not look back.

Nice looking '06 there. Just lose that crappy JC Whitney topbox, or make sure it's BOLTED to the mounting plate as they are notorious for flying off the bike. DAMHIK.

Goodluck, and let us know how you make out.  


Pricewise, I think 4500 is TAD too high for the milage. I'd KBB it out and split the difference between wholesale and retail and offer that. Otherwise it looks real clean and sounds like it's been taken care of.
That windshield might be a bit too tall especially if you're average height. That looks to be about a 24-26 inch screen and you'll be "looking through" all the time unless you're  six foot two.
That's a disadvantage in the rain/bad weather. IMHO you want that screen to come up to your nose when seated normally so you can look over when riding, and duck your head down just a bit when it's raining.

[napper]

I had a 2000 Concours for a couple of years but had to sell it for economic reasons.  I can't add to the prior responses except to say it was great for touring, adequate for commuting and had enough power available to provide an evil grin once in a while.  

As I have been on the lookout for a new ride, I keep seeing C-10's for sale at ridiculous (low) prices.  It's very tempting but I think of buying a bike of the same model you've had before a bit like remarrying your ex-wife.  

[Cablebandit]

http://www.zggtr.org

That's one way to turn someone off from owning a Concours.  

That's listed for 4500?  I thought I saw an FJR here or over on ADV for 5000 earlier this week.  I'd go that route instead.

[ConPilot1]

That's one way to turn someone off from owning a Concours.  

That's listed for 4500?  I thought I saw an FJR here or over on ADV for 5000 earlier this week.  I'd go that route instead.

Without a doubt. FJR is a much more advanced bike. Without booking it out honestly I'd say that Connies worth 3200-3800$ TOPS.

4500 is too much. The guy's not a retailer and the used market is very soft right now.

[schmii]

One of the big fatal issues that plague the bike is a bent con rod from hydrolock, but there has to be two circumstances in place at the same time for that to happen,
a failed vacuum petcock, and a stuck needle in the carbs. Gas floods a cylinder and BAM! on startup the engine is f*cked. My Connie is a daily year-round runner, weather permitting, and
I believe that the bikes this happens with bikes that have been sitting with no carb maintenance and the diaphragm in the petcock dries up and breaks in conjuction with a stuck needle.
Keep her running, and I don't think it will happen. There are workarounds to this also like overflow drain tubes installed in the carb bowls.

mmhm http://www.bccruisers.ca/forum/index.php?topic=2079.0

[2DFlyer]

Without a doubt. FJR is a much more advanced bike. Without booking it out honestly I'd say that Connies worth 3200-3800$ TOPS.

4500 is too much. The guy's not a retailer and the used market is very soft right now.

Wow!  Many thanks for all the details.   I really appreciate it.  I've considered others, and may still go another direction ( tires going away kinda spook me and I wouldn't want to live your Shinko experience), but the Connie is right sized and right priced.  Especially if this is over priced.  Everyone on Cycletrader must be using the other's price to set their own because so many are in that ball park.  Sounds like maybe Windblown's is more in line.

[hovmaven]

Free plug for Windy.  

While he never quite passed me at the track, he's still good people.    

 

(in his defense, I was riding the VFR like I was piloting an Amish carriage in Lancaster, so tough to pass)  

[2DFlyer]

Poking around at the fanatics forum I also learned of a couple of front and rear 17" conversion options so rubber doesn't have to be limited.  In fact there's apparently room for a 170 series rear that freshens up the rear some.  Nice.

[GilaMonster]

Wow!  Many thanks for all the details.   I really appreciate it.  I've considered others, and may still go another direction ( tires going away kinda spook me and I wouldn't want to live your Shinko experience), but the Connie is right sized and right priced.  Especially if this is over priced.  Everyone on Cycletrader must be using the other's price to set their own because so many are in that ball park.  Sounds like maybe Windblown's is more in line.

Keep in mind the late C-10s were an $8K new list bike.  I had an '02 C-10 that I bought new and it was a great ride for the buck.  But, I'd say the real value on a recent clean C-10 is in the low $3K range.

[Sunhunter]

I did not see if you had ridden this bike or another C10.  If not, definitely take one for a run.  Everything stated is accurate, but if you like the older sport touring technology it may be the ticket for you.  Go to the sites and watch tire mileage quotes for all current manufacturers and mostly numbers in the 4-7K range depending on riding style and environmental conditions.  Beware of the cheaper tires, depending on where you ride they can be slick and unsettling.  Better bikes can be had for the same or slightly more $$ .  

[2DFlyer]

Keep in mind the late C-10s were an $8K new list bike.  I had an '02 C-10 that I bought new and it was a great ride for the buck.  But, I'd say the real value on a recent clean C-10 is in the low $3K range.

This might be the C10 of choice.  It's an '04 w/19K but the best part is New Michelin PR2 tires and New Kosman 17" rear wheel conversion and the price is decent.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/2568515625.html

I did not see if you had ridden this bike or another C10.  If not, definitely take one for a run.  Everything stated is accurate, but if you like the older sport touring technology it may be the ticket for you.  Go to the sites and watch tire mileage quotes for all current manufacturers and mostly numbers in the 4-7K range depending on riding style and environmental conditions.  Beware of the cheaper tires, depending on where you ride they can be slick and unsettling.  Better bikes can be had for the same or slightly more $$ .  

Bouncing back and forth between this and the BMW forum you can see I'm conflicted between the rational, frugal, and perfectly adequate C10 and the R1150R that elicits a more emotional response.  This is, however, why I'm driving an '07 Civic Si and not an '04 BMW 325i.  For the same $$ I chose the new Civic over the 3yr old out of warranty beemer.  As adequate as the Civic is I'd still rather be driving the 325.  In some ways the same is probably true of the 1150RT.  

EDIT:  Besides the 17" conversion the tire selection on the Connie is a bonus.  I'm running PR2s on the ZRX right now and LOVE them.  At ~5K miles there's still 4mm to the center tread wear indicator.  These tires will go 10K and they stick great.

[Justin]

Bouncing back and forth between this and the BMW forum you can see I'm conflicted between the rational, frugal, and perfectly adequate C10 and the R1150R that elicits a more emotional response.  This is, however, why I'm driving an '07 Civic Si and not an '04 BMW 325i.  For the same $$ I chose the new Civic over the 3yr old out of warranty beemer.  As adequate as the Civic is I'd still rather be driving the 325.  In some ways the same is probably true of the 1150RT.  

Go with what moves you I say. You've already settled for the lower car - now you owe yourself the better bike  . Otherwise you will always be wishing you had gotten the BMW.

[ConPilot1]

This might be the C10 of choice.  It's an '04 w/19K but the best part is New Michelin PR2 tires and New Kosman 17" rear wheel conversion and the price is decent.

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/mcy/2568515625.html


EDIT:  Besides the 17" conversion the tire selection on the Connie is a bonus.  I'm running PR2s on the ZRX right now and LOVE them.  At ~5K miles there's still 4mm to the center tread wear indicator.  These tires will go 10K and they stick great.

That Connie's just a baby too with 19K. That's NOTHING milage-wise for that bike. Many miles of grins and budget touring in comfort. They really are a very capable all-around bike and the reliability factor is one of the best things about them. That rear wheel conversion is definitely a big plus. You'll want to get rid of that backrest if you're going to mount a topcase. The backrest has a topbox-acceptable rack, but the anchor points are too weak, and I wouldn't load it up. Remove that and the little rear cowling and there's your place to mount a Givi plate right directly to the rear subframe of the bike. Givi makes the plate kit that bolts right directly and is specifically designed for the Connie.

[2DFlyer]

You've heard the expression cheap at twice the price?  The wife would love me bringing home two!

I'm hoping to see the connie this weekend and the BMW next somehow or another.  The C10 is only a couple of hours away and right around the corner from UNC Charlotte where my daughter is a freshman so I can drop in on her.  The beemer is in backwoods SC about 5 hours away.  I know someone who lives close might have a look but I'll have to figure out how to get my butt down there to bring it home if that's what I do.

[Gary B.]

Atta boy! Can't make a decision? Buy 'em both!

[mjrfd99]

05 C-10 here. Only 2 valve adjust [easy] tires, oil and brake pads in 50k.  Great bang for the buck, espically a low mile used one.

[Giaka]

I had a 2005, as con pilot said things can be hit or miss on them. Mine buzzed so bad the the top of the RPM range it made you want to lift your feet off the pegs. Actually my wife did just that all the time. She hated the buzz.

I put a ZZR rear shock on mine with race tech front end. I also put ZZR1400 disk up front with 6 piston calipers and braided lines. To be honest the stock brakes are so bad that you cannot lock it up if you wanted. After almost plowing through a buddy of mine who went down I added the larger disk and real calipers. The bike almost had to much stopping power at that point but I loved it. The rear shock from the ZZR was the perfect setup for the rear.

The wind protection is awesome, the bags are awesome, mine was not overly hot, the huge gas tank is great, the tires are not that big of a deal if you run the oversize ones (the selection is fine for the kind of riding 90% of the people do).

Having said all that the ergos just never worked for me. I always felt like I had been beat up after a half day ride. Every bone and muscle on my body would be sore. Any yeah I put some time on mine so it wasn't that.  Something about that bike contorts my arms, shoulders and legs. The pain between my shoulder blades was really bad and my knees always hurt. So I sent the thing packing and bought a ST1300ABS and never looked back. It would be nice if you could "borrow" one for a while because you stand a 55% chance of hating it.  

FWIW none of the issues I had with ergos on the C10 have ever shown up while riding the ST1300.  

[2DFlyer]

I had a 2005, as con pilot said things can be hit or miss on them. Mine buzzed so bad the the top of the RPM range it made you want to lift your feet off the pegs. Actually my wife did just that all the time. She hated the buzz.

I put a ZZR rear shock on mine with race tech front end. I also put ZZR1400 disk up front with 6 piston calipers and braided lines. To be honest the stock brakes are so bad that you cannot lock it up if you wanted. After almost plowing through a buddy of mine who went down I added the larger disk and real calipers. The bike almost had to much stopping power at that point but I loved it. The rear shock from the ZZR was the perfect setup for the rear.

The wind protection is awesome, the bags are awesome, mine was not overly hot, the huge gas tank is great, the tires are not that big of a deal if you run the oversize ones (the selection is fine for the kind of riding 90% of the people do).

Having said all that the ergos just never worked for me. I always felt like I had been beat up after a half day ride. Every bone and muscle on my body would be sore. Any yeah I put some time on mine so it wasn't that.  Something about that bike contorts my arms, shoulders and legs. The pain between my shoulder blades was really bad and my knees always hurt. So I sent the thing packing and bought a ST1300ABS and never looked back. It would be nice if you could "borrow" one for a while because you stand a 55% chance of hating it.  

FWIW none of the issues I had with ergos on the C10 have ever shown up while riding the ST1300.  

Interesting you'd comment on feeling like you've been beat up.  Even as relaxed as the ZRX is I feel it across my shoulders after half an hour or so.  The ST1300 is also on the look see list.  Most of my riding will be commuting.  How is it as a daily driver?  Besides the price the simplicity of the C10 is one of it's main attractions.  It's functional.

[Windblown]

Riding one if you haven't yet is excellent advice (as always).  Folks are built different and like different things. I owned the Concours. Was reading all the glowing reviews about the ST1300 and decided I HAD to have one. Located a nice used model at a fair price and went to go see it with the money in my pocket to buy it. I hopped on the ST and rode it for 30 minutes. I came back and handed the guy the keys and got back on my C10 and rode home smiling all the way to be back on the C10.  I disliked almost everything about the ST.

[jetapumper]

Just finishing up my 5th summer on my '06 C-10. $8000 out the dealer door back then. Farckeled it lightly with bar risers and peg extenders, a rifle windshield and a throttle meister cc. Love it. Next step (eventually) is a fork brace and steel brake lines. CP-1 is right, rides better 2 up and loaded, top heavy when full of gas and mine is a bit of a buzzer. Otherwise it's rock solid and bullet proof.

[Giaka]

 Most of my riding will be commuting.  How is it as a daily driver?  Besides the price the simplicity of the C10 is one of it's main attractions.  It's functional.

Its a great commuter. I commuted on mine for two years. Right now my commute is 60 miles one way which might be the limit on my old C10.  


If you test ride a ST1300 make sure the tires are in good shape and properly inflated. If the ST has one flaw it is that it is hyper sensitive to the air pressure in the tires and that they have decent evenly worn tread.  

[ConPilot1]

Its a great commuter. I commuted on mine for two years. Right now my commute is 60 miles one way which might be the limit on my old C10.  


If you test ride a ST1300 make sure the tires are in good shape and properly inflated. If the ST has one flaw it is that it is hyper sensitive to the air pressure in the tires and that they have decent evenly worn tread.  

Shit i've done almost a 500 mile day on mine and felt great. 300 miles is a cake walk on the C10 and that's with the stocker seat which I've always found comfy, the ergos are right on the money for me with my 1.5 inch bar risers.

+1 on the ST comment. I've heard the same thing.

[spd2918]

If you test ride a ST1300 make sure the tires are in good shape and properly inflated. If the ST has one flaw it is that it is hyper sensitive to the air pressure in the tires and that they have decent evenly worn tread.  

Funny, I found my C10 was more tire sensitive then my 1300.  Metz Z-6s are the bomb on the ST.

[Giaka]

Funny, I found my C10 was more tire sensitive then my 1300.  Metz Z-6s are the bomb on the ST.

I will have to try those next time. What kind of mileage do you get out of them?

[2DFlyer]

Interesting all the comments on bar risers and peg extenders.  On paper stock egos look perfect.  The bike that opened this thread has both risers, extenders and extenders.  

I'm going to look at an '04 with 20K on the clock next weekend that's a couple of hours away.  Weird thing about this one is the owner says he put $900 into a 17" rear conversion and new PR2 front and back, but he didn't put $20 into the registration to keep it current.  So he only rides it around close to home once a month to keep it wet.  Being unregistered will make a test ride problematic.  Around here that means a temporary registration so it can be ridden to get an inspection before DMV will allow the registration renewal.

[Giaka]

I'm going to look at an '04 with 20K on the clock next weekend that's a couple of hours away.  Weird thing about this one is the owner says he put $900 into a 17" rear conversion and new PR2 front and back, but he didn't put $20 into the registration to keep it current.  

17 inch conversion was my next step. Its a great mod (if done by KOSMAN).

[2DFlyer]

Looks like I'll be coming home with an '04 R1150RT sometime next week instead of a connie.  Somewhat mixed emotions but I'm pretty psyched on the RT.

[spd2918]

I will have to try those next time. What kind of mileage do you get out of them?

6 to 7 on the back.  I change out the front every other time I do the rear.  I am hard on tires (YMMV).

[max1138]

im at 128k on my blue 01( bought new in 02), replaced a water pump at 40k (odd thing there, most go the lifetime of the bike but a small percentage go at 40k or sooner)
like the man said stone simple to work on, spend the money for the springs and emulators  for the front its worth it.
go with 15w belray-rsf in the rear shock and its good well past the point where reason is out the window as far as twisting the throttle down a winding road.
tires are getting to be a problem with the avon rear the only real choice left in a 150/16/80  there are a few 110/120-18 options left for the front
kosman wheelworks will build you a weldup 17 rear from your stock that will take a 160/170-17 and opens up a whole lot of choices there for about 600 bucks shipped.

SS brakelines will make the most of whats there, ebc HH+ pads are about as good as it gets in that model bike.

after 9 years and 128k miles if mine fell apart in the garage right now  I couldnt complain,I haven't spent $500 on repairs yet with me turning the wrenches.
: NOTE thats repairs only, theres substantially more in farkles on it
however i know of examples with over 200k on them still running strong so  Im hoping to make it to 2012 whereupon I will buy a new bike and give this one to my nephew.

there are options for better braking with 4 and 6 pot nissin and tokios  using an adapter that bolts to the stock mounting brackets, I have 6 pot nissins of an 03 zx9r on mine with ss lines  and ebc hh pads it will lust almost do a stoppie, it may can, im just not brave enough to go there on a 650# bike

look over on the zg fanatics forum and you will find all you ever wanted to know and them some, its a mature platform and those guys have answered every question possible about connies at one time or another