'stitch vs Darien

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Since I - ahem - "outgrew" my two piece Roadcrafter quite some time ago, I'm finally going to do something about it and order another one. I was looking through the Aerostitch "lite" catalog that showed up in yesterday's mail and didn't see the two-piece listed. That's not to say that I don't think they still make them, but it did make me look twice at the Darien stuff, seeing as I'd be getting pants and a jacket anyway. I always like the look of the Darien jacket, too  

So in anyone's experience, are the two equally waterproof? That is my main concern. I can layer 'til the cows come home and I've always been fine with the ventilation limits of the 2-piece. But I need to stay dry.


 

[1KPerDay]

In my experience I'd wager the Darien is more waterproof (based on my experience with the Darien and others' reported experience with the roadcrafter). The 3/4 length jacket keeps more rain out of your crotch, and the lack of the big central zipper and inside-leg zipper seems to help.

I've never gotten wet in my Darien (until I crashed and poked holes in it and popped some seams).

[bomber]

In my experience I'd wager the Darien is more waterproof (based on my experience with the Darien and others' reported experience with the roadcrafter). The 3/4 length jacket keeps more rain out of your crotch, and the lack of the big central zipper and inside-leg zipper seems to help.

This is a good reason to have a two piece stich, IMO == it acts like a 3/4 jacket

all the folks I know with Dariens, however, love em to death, and wouldn't trade em for RCs . . . ..

[sammyseaman]

  http://www.aerostich.com/files/readings/2001Catalog/darienvroad1.html

[Mrs. DantesDame]

  http://www.aerostich.com/files/readings/2001Catalog/darienvroad1.html

Oh now just stop it with the fact-finding! I'm here to rally the EoE of STN!  

[sammyseaman]

Oh now just stop it with the fact-finding! I'm here to rally the EoE of STN!  

Should post a poll   I'd vote Darian just because it's slightly rebelious compared to a 'Stich

[coho]

I have found that the Darien pants stay drier longer in the crotchal area than the Roadcrafter in truly epic rain.
That said, the Roadcrafter is more fitted and would see more use than the dariens if I'd just get it over to Rainy Pass for a re-zippering already.

[hovmaven]

  http://www.aerostich.com/files/readings/2001Catalog/darienvroad1.html

 

Although I will add that on staying dry, the 'stich folks have updated the roadcrafter zippers to "waterproof" zippers, and they seem to work well. . ..  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

How about crash-worthiness? The link so handily provided emphasizes that the Roadcrafter is highly abrasion resistant, but the Darien makes no such claims (at least not to the same extent)

[coho]

Dariens seem less 'substantial' than the RC, but I haven't crashed in either of them.

[1KPerDay]

From what I understand the Darien isn't as heavy-duty as the roadcrafter. Fewer spots with double layered cordura, etc. The pants are single-layer throughout, for example. They are comfy, though. And the fact that the Darien stuff is unlined makes it more versatile in hot weather. I don't like heavy linings in my gear.

[Drif10]

Ever seen pics of the hotel parking lot before an IBR? Dariens, the majority by far.

Look at the AD1 pants to go with the Darien jacket, More weatherproof (mine kept me dry for 6 days in the rain), and the new ones now have velcro for the knee armor that allows you to put it wherever you choose. One size does fit all.

Had a roadcrafter for 11 years, tried revit, bmw, belstaff, and olympia. Sold off the lot, went with the Darien/AD1 combo.

It just works.

[bomber]

Stich themselves claim more abrasion resistance from an RC than a Darien set-up --

I've crashed neither, but have seen both after getoffs -- RC fared better, for certain, but if I had it to do over again, I'd likely go Darien . . .

[hovmaven]

Since I - ahem - "outgrew" my two piece Roadcrafter quite some time ago . . ..

You've grown taller?  

Tagging Bomber's comments, I'd agree with the Darien -- unless the use was straight commuting and perhaps spirited riding.  Two piece gives more functionality, especially the type of riding you enjoy (the road less traveled, etc.).

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Tagging Bomber's comments, I'd agree with the Darien -- unless the use was straight commuting and perhaps spirited riding.  Two piece gives more functionality, especially the type of riding you enjoy (the road less traveled, etc.).

If I go RC, it'll be a two-piece again. That's why I'm having the dilemma of the RC vs the Darien  

Usage would be primarily commuting, with day rides into the woods (when possible) and long-distance riding. All three will be in heat, sun, wind, rain, sleet and whatever else I run into on the road, so quality is important.


I'm enjoying the conversation so far guys - thanks!  

[bluepoof]

Peter has worn Darien pants exclusively for years.  I've never heard him complain about them (and I've definitely heard complaints about other gear he has   ).

He was wearing them when he tangled with the minivan in July.  He wound up with a bruise on his knee but no other marks on his lower body, to the surprise of the ER staff.  The pants got a very tiny hole in them, which Aerostich fixed for $25 -- good as new now.

Just from my second-hand experience with them, I'd recommend them.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Peter has worn Darien pants exclusively for years.  I've never heard him complain about them (and I've definitely heard complaints about other gear he has   ).

 

[vitaminC]

Navigator?

I really like my Commute suit!    Don't miss my RC at all...

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Navigator?

I really like my Commute suit!    Don't miss my RC at all...

I considered it, but this sentence here makes me cringe:

In my personal opinion, the best way to deal with wet conditions is to wear an external rain suit.

[Daniel Kalal]

I have both a 1p roadcrafter and a darien.  Many years and miles on both (about 18 years each).  They're both quite good.  The roadcrafter is more comfortable over a wide range of temperature.  The Darien is more waterproof.  The Darien also allows better freedom of movement thatn the Roadcrafter.  I prefer the pockets on the roadcrafter, although the very large front pocket on the darien is handy.  The darien pants pockets are limited.  Far quicker to get in and out of a Roadcrafter.  Riding across the country on a road bike?  Roadcrafter, no question.  Riding a dual sport where I might need to stand on the pegs or endure a drenching rain?  Darien.  It's nice to have both.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I have both a 1p roadcrafter and a darien.  Many years and miles on both (about 18 years each).  They're both quite good.  The roadcrafter is more comfortable over a wide range of temperature.  The Darien is more waterproof.  The Darien also allows better freedom of movement thatn the Roadcrafter.  I prefer the pockets on the roadcrafter, although the very large front pocket on the darien is handy.  The darien pants pockets are limited.  Far quicker to get in and out of a Roadcrafter.  Riding across the country on a road bike?  Roadcrafter, no question.  Riding a dual sport where I might need to stand on the pegs or endure a drenching rain?  Darien.  It's nice to have both.

Thank you - this is exactly what I was looking for  

[vitaminC]

I considered it, but this sentence here makes me cringe:

In my personal opinion, the best way to deal with wet conditions is to wear an external rain suit.

Yes, but don't you (and others) frequently get wet spots while wearing the RC in the rain? Seems like that's always been an issue with Aerostuff

[hovmaven]

Hence the new waterproof zippers. . ..  

[Daniel Kalal]

Yes, but don't you (and others) frequently get wet spots while wearing the RC in the rain? Seems like that's always been an issue with Aerostuff

The Darien and Roadcrafter are put together differently, so things said about one won't apply to the other.  As to the Roadcrafter, they are generally noted for letting in some moisture at the crotch (through the zipper), but I've found this to be somewhat inconsistent.  It probably makes a great deal of difference how the folds are arranged when you're seated.  But, even at the worst, it's still just a little dampness after a full day of riding in the rain.  Yes; it would be better not to have that issue, but it's nothing that is going to be a big problem, and certainly nothing that would make me put on another lastic rain suit over the top.  I've never had any moisture get in at my torso, arms or legs.  In my experience, the Darien does not even have this problem.

Neither is what you could call attractive...

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Yes, but don't you (and others) frequently get wet spots while wearing the RC in the rain? Seems like that's always been an issue with Aerostuff

It happened (to me) exactly twice in over 60K miles of use. The first time I remember vividly: I had been riding in a downpour for 6 hours. About 20 minutes from my destination I shifted in my seat and the pooled water came in. I don't recall the second time, but it was similar. I've never had any other issues with my 2pc RC  

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Neither is what you could call attractive...

 

I don't wear gear to attract guys  

[Daniel Kalal]

I don't wear gear to attract guys  

Oh my...  some sort of macarena festival going on in Eureka?

[vitaminC]

Just checking. Going to stick with solid black?

[Castaway]

Just to mix things up, I usually wear the Roadcrafter jacket with Darien pants. This happened cause I bought Darien pants years before I bought a red RC suit off of Craigslist. I like the full RC suit - it fits tighter and feels more protective. But the close fit also feels more constrictive. And all that red ... it's just a bit too much.

Other drawbacks to the one-piece RC suit is that it's a lot of suit to deal with when you want to strip down. Having a two piece (I don't know if this is in question for you, DD) allows you to take off the jacket and choose to wear, or not wear, the pants.

As for getting wet, I get wet with the Darien pants, even after the Nikwax treatment. Need to give that a go again.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Other drawbacks to the one-piece RC suit is that it's a lot of suit to deal with when you want to strip down. Having a two piece (I don't know if this is in question for you, DD) allows you to take off the jacket and choose to wear, or not wear, the pants.

Pssst - read my other comments: I am only interested in a 2 piece or the Darien  I did like how the RC fit until it got too snug though  

As for getting wet, I get wet with the Darien pants, even after the Nikwax treatment. Need to give that a go again.

Not what I want to hear  

[bomber]

experience tells my my RC 2-piece will leak if I'm not careful with the crotchal area folds, and with the waterproofing regimine (wash and seam seal) . . . some times, it'll be damn near watertight the first time, other times, likely cuz I didn't get all the soap rinsed out, I'll need to hit the thing with Camp Dry or Scotch Guard  . . . it'd be smart, long term, for Stich to ship the things already treated . . .

'Course, since mine was purchased 2nd (3rd?) hand, and it's 15 years old, I got no right to beef about anything, I figure.

If my 2-piece RC continues to shrink, I'll likely get a Darien setup . . . I'm loving the RC (speically for comuting to work), but the Darien seems a bit more flexible overall . . .

[Castaway]

Pssst - read my other comments: I am only interested in a 2 piece or the Darien  I did like how the RC fit until it got too snug though  




Not what I want to hear  

Sorry, I got caught up in my thoughts.      The thing with with 2-piece RC is that the pants don't wear around too easily unless one wants to wear suspenders. Without 'em seems to me that the whole suit is on or off.

It was the first time I'd used Nikwax, so the problem could be my own. More attention to the, ahem ... crotch maybe be needed. Or maybe it's the lack of waterproof zippers? Mine are old and don't have 'em.

One thing regarding Stich stuff is that it seems the red color is fading quickly, and I'm wondering if has anything to do with having washed it. Could there have been some kind of color guard in it from the factory?

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Sorry, I got caught up in my thoughts.      The thing with with 2-piece RC is that the pants don't wear around too easily unless one wants to wear suspenders. Without 'em seems to me that the whole suit is on or off.

Having "womanly hips" has helped to keep the pants on for me in the past (remember: I put about 60K on my 2 pc, so I have a good idea of what I'm getting into if I get another one)

It was the first time I'd used Nikwax, so the problem could be my own. More attention to the, ahem ... crotch maybe be needed. Or maybe it's the lack of waterproof zippers? Mine are old and don't have 'em.

I don't think it's a zipper failure per se, but the way the heavy fabric lays in that area. It very easily creates pools of rain water, which then can slip behind the velcro flap and into the zipper area. If you can get the fabric to shed the water without pooling, I think it would be a non-issue.

If you wanted to double- up on the Nikwax, after doing the wash with Tech Wash and then TX Direct Wash In, while it's still damp, spray any susceptible area with TX Direct Spray On. That can ensure that there is sufficient coverage  

One thing regarding Stich stuff is that it seems the red color is fading quickly, and I'm wondering if has anything to do with having washed it. Could there have been some kind of color guard in it from the factory?

The red has always been a known weak color for the 'stitch, but I believe that they've been able to improve the dye life in the last couple of years. Red is the only color that has this problem to this degree, although a couple of the other colors do change over time.

Except the black: that's held up beautifully  

[Guzzirider]

I wouldn't trade my Darien for anything. I like the versatility of the two piece. I rode for six hours in a downpour on my way to the Springfield Mile and the pants didn't leak a drop.

[ConPilot1]

Yeah man same here. I love my Darien. Definitely a baggier cut and a lot more range of movement in the Darien. I've been in some pretty good downpours in my Darien suit, and have stayed dry, and my jacket is WAY over due for a cleaning/rewaterproof. The pants are awesome, and comfy. Easy in-easy out-, and boots go in/out of them easily without having to take your boots off. it's also nice if you're stopping for a quick bite or a coffee just to be able to take your jacket off. The Darien pants are quite comfy for just lounging around it at the pancake house.  

I also use a Darien/Darien---Roadcrafter jkt/Darien pants combo and I like the versatility. RC jacket is without a doubt more substantial in weight/build. The Darien flows air MUCH better than the RC which just by it's snugger fit nature restricts the airflow. Either jacket with a Gerbings liner and an UnderArmor wicking shirt and you're good to go for whatever cold comes your way. Never had a wet crotch in my Darien.

I like 'em both, they are superb no-frills functional riding jackets.  

That said about the build difference between the two I've never really felt "unprotected" in my Darien. You've got the 1 pc. 'stich, go for the Darien suit. You won't regret it.

[expatbrit]

I considered it, but this sentence here makes me cringe:

(Dammit, it won't double quote).

I'm torn here. I really, really, want to want a Teiz suit. And, to be honest, I live in the desert SW, and I can't get a 'stitch to fit (so they say). Custom fit, decent fabrics, but not waterproof. Big boo!

[erda]

Okay-maybe a "dumb" question, but does the Darien jacket zip to the Darien pants (like the Roadcrafter)?

[bomber]

not a dumb question at all --

the answer is "nope."

[scottdc]

Okay-maybe a "dumb" question, but does the Darien jacket zip to the Darien pants (like the Roadcrafter)?

Nope, they don't zip together. Jacket is long enough I don't really think they need to though.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Nope, they don't zip together. Jacket is long enough I don't really think they need to though.

Wow. I find that really surprising - and disappointing. I like my zippers. In fact, I replace the 8" stock zipper on new gear with a 3/4 zipper to go most of the way around.


This is a serious black mark against the Darien gear  

[bomber]

if the Darien jacket and pants zipped together, wouldn't you basically have a two-piece stich?

[KLRchickie]

Nope, they don't zip together. Jacket is long enough I don't really think they need to though.

To my way of thinking it is physically impossible to have a jacket "long enough" to keep from riding up if you go sliding in a feet first sort of direction down the road...

[Mrs. DantesDame]

To my way of thinking it is physically impossible to have a jacket "long enough" to keep from riding up if you go sliding in a feet first sort of direction down the road...

Bingo.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

if the Darien jacket and pants zipped together, wouldn't you basically have a two-piece stich?

Judging from what people here say, no. The Darien apparently fits "looser" than a 2-piece stitch. Also, the Darien material is slightly less abrasion-resistant than what they use in the stitch.

[ConPilot1]

Just have your needle Maestro seamstress girl who does your gear for you to stitch in a circumferential zipper. Could probably just seal the seam up with Gore-Tex tape
and you'd have your attached Darien jacket + pants. Could be done. Ask Aerostich if they could do it on a new suit delivery.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Yeah, I don't have any problems having Carol add a zipper to the Darien, other than the *idea* of having to have her add a zipper to the Darien. You'd think that they would have taken care of that already, ya know?


When I get closer to pulling the trigger, I'll call them up and have a pros/cons discussion with them directly.

[ConPilot1]

Lemme tell you something though, that Darien suit is the most comfortable SOB of a riding suit you'll ever try.  

I still say go for it, you like the 1 pc and you've outgrown a 2 piece, so you know what the 'Stich quality is like. Darien is equally quality stuff,
just a little different form and fit.

Dorky, but functional beyond belief. The zippers across the back with the pit zips and crack the chest zip on a warm
day and the airflow is killer. I think when I wear mine out finally, (who knows when that might be) I'll probably put another Darien suit in the closet.

[KLRchickie]

Lemme tell you something though, that Darien suit is the most comfortable SOB of a riding suit you'll ever try.  

Only if you're shaped like a Darien suit...

I'm truly not trying to be difficult, just pointing out that we're not all shaped the same!  I believe I read that this suit has a very "relaxed cut" --- for me that would mean I could expect it to fit like a bag - and I wouldn't trust it to hold armour in place over the pointy bits in the event that I went sliding in it.

[ConPilot1]

Only if you're shaped like a Darien suit...

I'm truly not trying to be difficult, just pointing out that we're not all shaped the same!  I believe I read that this suit has a very "relaxed cut" --- for me that would mean I could expect it to fit like a bag - and I wouldn't trust it to hold armour in place over the pointy bits in the event that I went sliding in it.

Very relaxed cut. Izzz baggie no doubt. The armor staying in place hasn't been an issue for me with the jacket, but the pants armor might need a little custom velcro position work to make it comfy.

I'd say the cut of the Darien should accommodate most body shapes.

[bomber]

Only if you're shaped like a Darien suit...

I'm truly not trying to be difficult, just pointing out that we're not all shaped the same!  I believe I read that this suit has a very "relaxed cut" --- for me that would mean I could expect it to fit like a bag - and I wouldn't trust it to hold armour in place over the pointy bits in the event that I went sliding in it.

And herein lies the major difference between the Darien kit and the RC (according to the mothership) . . . . the RC is recommend for more hauling the mail kinda applications, while the Darien is recommend for dual sport, wretched weather, and basically slower riding (all paraphrased, of course) . . ..

[Doug Just Doug]

DD: FWIW, I have ~100K miles in 2 pc. Roadcrafters, Dariens and AD-1s.

Fit: RC is closer/sportier. Darien allows more layering and "expansion" room.

Crashworthiness: Dunno 'cuz I've never crashed in any of them. The Darien armor never feels like it would be out of place in a crash. If I had to pick one to crash in today, it would be the RC for its ballistic patches.

Weatherproofness: Not much difference; I've never had the RC Wet Crotch Syndrome. If a had to pick one to ride thru a hurricane, it'd be the Darien.

Aerodynamics: RC wins. Closer fit so arms don't flap as much. However, it's never been an annoyance with me with the Darien. Much depends upon your bike's wind protection.

Ventilation: RC is good but the Darien wins. With no liner it passes significantly more air.

Pants: RC more protective but much less convenient IMO. I wear Darien pants or AD-1s even with my RC jacket. Dariens are brilliant and probably slightly more protective (Cordura v. plain ol' nylon), but AD-1s are comfier with articulated knee and, gusseted crotch, and have covered front pockets.  Both are equally waterproof and both allow for a lot of layering.

Bottom line: I this gear whore had a gun to his head to choose only 1 set to ride in forever, it would be Darien jacket with AD-1 pants. The fact that the Darien is both warmer-wearing in the cold and cooler-wearing in the heat tips the scales.  BUT, I always tell folks considering the FC v. Darien question to not agonize too much over the decision: you won't go wrong with either.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

DD: FWIW, I have ~100K miles in 2 pc. Roadcrafters, Dariens and AD-1s.

   Thank you!


Now what's an "AD-1"?  

[ConPilot1]

   Thank you!


Now what's an "AD-1"?  

See how nice and helpful and productive STNR's we are??


The AD-1 was a just re-engineered Darien pant for cut/fit. Supposedly a trimmer cut, not as straight and baggy with a gusseted crotch area, and I think they had a cargo pocket on the pant leg??
Correct me if I'm wrong here.
I've heard no complaint's either about the AD-1, but last I knew they were discontinued. I just checked the catalog that sits on my desk and I don't see the AD-1's listed.

[bomber]

Thanks, Doug!

[Doug Just Doug]

Re: AD-1 pants. They're still being sold. I find no difference in the fit other then the roomier knees. They're very similar to Dariens but have a few extras. All the differences are spelled out on the website: http://www.aerostich.com/ad1-motorcycle-pants.html  Unlike the Dariens, AD-1s are not made in Duluth so no alterations, but Aerostich will still repair them. I've had a few minor items repaired and the pants re-DWR'd by Aero a couple of times.

[scottdc]

To my way of thinking it is physically impossible to have a jacket "long enough" to keep from riding up if you go sliding in a feet first sort of direction down the road...

Ah, good point, my mind was on weatherproofness and riding up on the bike. I do know a few folks who have had offs at 35mph+ in a Darien  without any jacket riding up related injuries or issues but there's so many variables in a crash probably better to have it altered to zip together than not. Might look into doing the same for mine now actually...

Also for anyone going the Darien/AD1 route I bought my AD1 pants on the small side and found the TF5 hip pads (same as SAS TEC) a more comfortable fit as they are much thinner. Swapped the armor in my jacket as well to the SAS TEC pads and it reduced the bulk quite a bit.

[Doug Just Doug]

Tip for anyone wanting to use the TF-5/SAS-TEC back protector: it's only $45 from RevZilla v. $100 from Aerostich. Hate to cost Andy G. any sales, but that's a huge difference.