Rattle in engine - valves maybe?

[ceilingcat]

12k miles - 09' c-14.  When I start it in the morning (recently its been very cold here 20 - 30 degrees) I get a rather annoying rattle from the engine that sounds like a sticking valve, lifter or something like that.  Pretty much anytime I start it from cold I get this sound.  I don't know...I am going to take the bike in to have the tire pressure sensors replaced as I just started getting the low pressure alarm and I know that Kawasaki will replace the sensors with newer generation that is resistant to the cold weather problems, but this engine rattle is annoying and rather loud - kind of like a few bolts in a tin can.

It doesn't seem to clear up as the bike warms up, and the engine seems to be missing?  Not sure but this could either be a big problem in the making or nothing more than a clearance adjustment.  I will be taking the bike in on Thursday.

[atadaskew]

Sounds like cam chain tensioner failing to me.

[Motornoggin]

The cam chain tensioner, in conjunction with the VVT set up makes a rattle when cold after a few thousand miles. Mine does it too. It only does it for a second or two until it pressures up. If it does it for a prolonged time, or doesn't stop, then I would say you have a problem.

[GS1100GK]

The cam chain tensioner, in conjunction with the VVT set up makes a rattle when cold after a few thousand miles. Mine does it too. It only does it for a second or two until it pressures up. If it does it for a prolonged time, or doesn't stop, then I would say you have a problem.

What he says!  

[zxrider11]

Sounds like the Cam Chain Tensioner.  

This is common on all the ZX14's upon cold start ups.  

Try switching to synthetic oil, and the rattle may go away.  

Or you can eliminate it with the APE manual cam chain tensioner, here is the link for more information:

http://store.starracing.com/servlet/Detail?no=949

[ceilingcat]

Thank you for the responses.  Ironically I have been using the Kawasaki branded synthetic oil as I got a good price on a case of it, otherwise I would be using Motul 300v.

I am thinking its something along the line of the cam chain or something in the valve train.  I just purchsed the additional extended coverage from Kawasaki so if anything it will pay for itself if they have to go into the engine.  It is rather loud, enough to turn heads at a stop light.  I am not riding the bike until I take it in for service.

Other than some carbon fiber bits and a Leo Vince slip-on; no modifications to the bike have been made.

[SuperSlider]

They all do that, seriously.  My zx14 did it as does my C14, don't worry about it.

[Cablebandit]

They all do that, seriously.  My zx14 did it as does my C14, don't worry about it.

Yeah it's not the quietest engine around that's for sure.  Did you check your header bolts?  I know a lot of people have reported that there's were loose.

[zxrider11]

If the rattle does not go away after a few seconds upon cold start up, then you probably have a problem.

[wibornz]

working on 48,000 on my c14.  It started doing that around 7000 to 10,000 miles.  It is normal.  Not to worry.

[Justin]

working on 48,000 on my c14.  It started doing that around 7000 to 10,000 miles.  It is normal.  Not to worry.

The fix for this problem is better ear plugs.

[wibornz]

What happens is the oil drains out of the cam tenisoner after is has sat for a while the rattle is the cam tensionser rattling for a second or two as it gets oil sent to it.

[atadaskew]

What happens is the oil drains out of the cam tenisoner after is has sat for a while the rattle is the cam tensionser rattling for a second or two as it gets oil sent to it.

But the OP says the rattle does not go away, even after the motor has been running for a while.

p.s. how can a rattling cam chain be normal?  It's rattling because it is too loose which cannot be a good thing.

[ceilingcat]

I dropped it off yesterday afternoon and they called me back:
Cam Chain tensiononer (sp)
Chain Guides
metal flakes / chunks other flakes of material were found in the oil
Cam Chain
A VVT actuator (w/e that is)

The shop is asking Kawasaki USA for a complete engine due to metal flakes found in the oil and scoring / groove cut into the chain path.  Apparnetly something let go or failed.  The cam chain was digging into the metal of the engine case.  The shop manager said he has a pretty good case to get a complete engine replacement.  He believes Kawasaki will be willing to do this so they can have the carcass to analyse.   All work is being done under warranty.

The rattle was pretty darn loud btw
It did not go away
It did get worse over the week the problem started
Sounded like several bolts in a can being shaken really hard
It was pretty obvious there was something wrong

If I can get pictures I will

[Cablebandit]

Be sure to get pics before Kawasaki shows up.  I had an engine in a Subaru blow up for unknown reasons and once Subaru said they wanted it back it was pretty much off limits.

[atadaskew]

I dropped it off yesterday afternoon and they called me back:
Cam Chain tensiononer (sp)
Chain Guides
metal flakes / chunks other flakes of material were found in the oil
Cam Chain
A VVT actuator (w/e that is)

The shop is asking Kawasaki USA for a complete engine due to metal flakes found in the oil and scoring / groove cut into the chain path.  Apparnetly something let go or failed.  The cam chain was digging into the metal of the engine case.  The shop manager said he has a pretty good case to get a complete engine replacement.  He believes Kawasaki will be willing to do this so they can have the carcass to analyse.   All work is being done under warranty.

The rattle was pretty darn loud btw
It did not go away
It did get worse over the week the problem started
Sounded like several bolts in a can being shaken really hard
It was pretty obvious there was something wrong

If I can get pictures I will

Sorry i was right.

Good thing you've got your reliable Ducati to ride around on in the meantime.

This is why I trust Italian machinery.  Nothing ever goes wrong...

[CrazyRider]

Sorry i was right.

Good thing you've got your reliable Ducati to ride around on in the meantime.

This is why I trust Italian machinery.  Nothing ever goes wrong...

LOL, this is the first time I have ever heard that a Ducati or any kind of Italian machinery is reliable forget more reliable! They are good at styling lets rest the case at that. It is not surprising that Ducati is known as the "Harley of Sportbikes!"

[Mr.Black]

Sorry i was right.
Good thing you've got your reliable Ducati to ride around on in the meantime.

This is why I trust Italian machinery.  Nothing ever goes wrong...

Dude. You channeling Raj?

[SuperSlider]

I was wrong, the don't all to that. Sounds like the shop is taking care of it.

[ceilingcat]

Actually the Duc has been pretty reliable - seeing that it makes a pretty picture in the garage and it has 1452 miles on it.  It's nothing more than my mess around bike; but don't get me wrong its pretty nice.

[atadaskew]

Dude. You channeling Raj?

How dare you Sir!

Of course I am teasing here.
Posted on: December 16, 2011, 11:40:31 AM

LOL, this is the first time I have ever heard that a Ducati or any kind of Italian machinery is reliable forget more reliable! They are good at styling lets rest the case at that. It is not surprising that Ducati is known as the "Harley of Sportbikes!"

Funny you mention Harleys.  Both my Ducati St4s and Harley Dyna have been more reliable than any other bike I've owned, except for a Honda Valkyrie.
That thing really was solid.  

Anyway, I'm glad the shop is on top of this issue, and it obviously is a one-off.  These things happen.

[ceilingcat]

Happy new year everyone.

So to update this issue.

Kawasaki USA via the dealership requested that I do a 1 for 1 swap of my 2009 for a 2012.  They stated the issue with the engine was not something they had seen and wanted to have the entire motorcycle for analysis of their production process and to figure out if it was a design issue.  Kawasaki USA stated I would not incur any costs for tax/tag/title and my extended warranty would be transferred over to the new bike.   Furthermore they stated it would be cost effective for a swap as the motorcycle showed no signs of abuse. For customer satisfaction and brand loyalty Kawasaki USA stated it would be beneficial to both them and myself to ensure the highest level of customer satisfaction as possible.  Additionally they stated the first two services would be free of charge - break in and w/e the next one is.

So I have a 2012 C14 now.  I did ask if I could have a pearl white color option - they said that color was not currently in the US market.  The dealership transferred my added bits and pieces to the new bike and true to their word, I didn't have to pay anything - I just showed up, signed some papers, answered a really long question form (was like 90 questions of various types concerning use, maintenence, riding habits, where in the rpm range I normally rode the bike etc), got on the new bike and rode home.  I was not expecting Kawasaki to do this.  I think they went beyond what they needed to do and I am very happy with their service and response.

[CrazyRider]

WOW, I haven't seen a better customer care experience in the motorcycle world. You must be stoked!!!

[ceilingcat]

WOW, I haven't seen a better customer care experience in the motorcycle world. You must be stoked!!!

I have no complaints.  I think they had grounds for requesting the bike - but they didn't have to.  As I am an engineer myself I can understand their desire to get hold of the bike and look at it closely.  I did see the engine taken apart on the shop bench.  It was pretty much shot.  There was about a cup of debris in the oil pan - metal shavings, plastics and other stuff.  The path the cam chain follows was heavily scored.  The cam chain itself was torn up.  I am very suprised the engine did not seize up.

I did ask to take pictures, the shop said no.  As soon as Kawasaki USA and KHI got involved the ability to take pictures was off the table.  I did not press the point.

[ANZAC]

Now that's excellent customer service - way to go Kawasaki  

[camaroz1985]

That is great service.  Glad to hear you got it all taken care of.

So you couldn't get the white (which is a shame because I think it looks great), what color did you get?

[ceilingcat]

That is great service.  Glad to hear you got it all taken care of.

So you couldn't get the white (which is a shame because I think it looks great), what color did you get?

It's exactly the same bike - black ABS model with the only exception being the differences between the 2009 and 2012 - traction control, heated grips.

[atadaskew]

Outstanding customer service.

[Motornoggin]

Glad to know Kawi took care of you like that! Good news!

[Justin]

Very cool, I like happy endings   - Now, go out and break in the new one like you stole it!