Throttle body Sync- Vacuum Guages or Manometer

[howardrichman]

07 650R
When inspecting vacuum sync; The manual states to use a vacuum guage to be able to set the spec vacuum, but some are using a mercury manometer. Any opinion on which is better or more accurate? The motor is only an fuel injected twin. Bike bandit has a Emgo 4 carb syn tool I've considered. I still have my old mercury 4 tube mercury sync tube set from years ago, but lost the mercury. I have a digital tach, but have'nt tested it lately. If my old tach fails; where and what's the best unit(s) to buy?

                                                                                                                                                                 Howie...

[Sputnik]

Morgan carbtune.
http://www.carbtune.com/

[Andrew]

May I suggest the Harmoizer

Check it out over on ADV

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701625

I have one and found it better than any sync tool I have ever owned.
  No need for a tach (built in)
  Can be connected & take the bike for a ride to see how synced the throttles are under driving conditions.
  Auto self adjusting (zeros out when turned on)
  Easy to read and even easier to understand

[tomek]

I prefer the thingy with tubes instead of gauges . Old school , tubes , directly show the signal ( vacuum ) while the gauge converts the signal . How precise or accurate that conversion is ?  You don`t know but if you swap feeding tubes  readings might be different .  

This : http://www.chrome-addiction.com/p-motion-pro-tool-merc-free-carb-sync-38040003-10023537.php?r=froogle

I don`t see a reason that non mercury refill kit should not work on your old sync machine , as a matter of fact I`m gonna order one for myself .


Technically on many FI systems there are actually two areas that can be synchronized , air bypass circuits - essentially the idle ( many Hondas ) , and throttles themselves . The best way to synch throttles is to  the load the engine ,so  I see the value in the sync tool  in Andrew`s link .    

[Scratch33]

May I suggest the Harmoizer

Check it out over on ADV

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701625

I too purchased a Harmonizer and love it.

[howardrichman]

Looks Good.
I'de like to buy a 4 cylinder unit for future bike options instead of using a manifold or swap out lines. How well does the tach function work?

                                                                                                                                                                                 HR...

[mugwump58]

Harmonizer, you'll never look back.

[howardrichman]

I prefer the thingy with tubes instead of gauges . Old school , tubes , directly show the signal ( vacuum ) while the gauge converts the signal . How precise or accurate that conversion is ?  You don`t know but if you swap feeding tubes  readings might be different .  

This : http://www.chrome-addiction.com/p-motion-pro-tool-merc-free-carb-sync-38040003-10023537.php?r=froogle

I don`t see a reason that non mercury refill kit should not work on your old sync machine , as a matter of fact I`m gonna order one for myself .


Technically on many FI systems there are actually two areas that can be synchronized , air bypass circuits - essentially the idle ( many Hondas ) , and throttles themselves . The best way to synch throttles is to  the load the engine ,so  I see the value in the sync tool  in Andrew`s link .    

 


Since I have a tach-meter, I see the only disadvantages w/ the Motion Pro tool is: cant load engine, and the bike's standard vacuum cant be measured to set. Not sure if setting standard vacuum is important. Well; I've got my choices to either the Harmonizer; Morgan Carbtune; or the Motion Pro sync tool??
Does the Harmonizer measure and display vacuum?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Howie...

[ReCycled]

  



Does the Harmonizer measure and display vacuum?
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   Howie...

Yes.   And another vote for the Harmonizer from a past manometer and Twinmax user.

[howardrichman]

May I suggest the Harmoizer

Check it out over on ADV

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701625

I have one and found it better than any sync tool I have ever owned.
  No need for a tach (built in)
  Can be connected & take the bike for a ride to see how synced the throttles are under driving conditions.
  Auto self adjusting (zeros out when turned on)
  Easy to read and even easier to understand


 

[howardrichman]

How do you rate the Harmonizer's built-in tach? I've heard the tach function is somewhat irratic (jumpy). Does this device display measured vacuum?
Not sure, but I'de think the Standard vacuum and idle be set together 1st on one port, then sync the others to the 1st port, keeping tabs on the vac and idle.                                                                                                                                        Howie...
[/quote]

[mugwump58]

Luddites  

[Andrew]

"I don`t see a reason that non mercury refill kit should not work on your old sync machine , as a matter of fact I`m gonna order one for myself ."


I believe that mercury is much heavier than almost any other liquid. Therefore reading may differ if you use another fluid. Also Mercury does not stick to the tubes as say trans fluid would (or any other kind of oil

[tomek]

Readings would not really matter for synchronizing ,  you are basically comparing vacuum  signals  .

It is all academic anyway , Motion Pro says it won`t work , apparently  there is more to those tools then just replacing fluids .

Cool vid covering new non- mercury old school balancer : http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/4/65/13078/ITEM/Motion-Pro-Syncpro-Carburetor-Tuner.aspx  , click on video of the left side of the pic .

[Andrew]

When the oil gets sucked into the bike, I bet the reading will differ  

[howardrichman]

Again; my question is: should'nt the Standard spec vacuum be set on one port to use for the remaining others before any throttle body syncing is done for initial vacuuum accuracy? If so, multiple accurate vacuum guages, digital version sync tools ,or a separate vac guage used w/ a manometer should be the choices for syncing.

                                                                                                                                   Howie...

[Andrew]

As long as the reading are even on all cylinders, Remember we are synchronizing the cylinders.

If the bace idle is correct and all cylinders are even  

If all cylinders evenly go up and down together as throttle/load is increased/decreased ALL IS GOOD

If you set one intake to a given pressure, then adjust another, the original one will change as you do so.  Getting all cylinders to pull evenly is the goal.

[howardrichman]

So i guess there's no reason to use a vacuum guage, if i just have a accurate sync tool. What would then be the advantage to a Harmonizer compared to a Motion Pro tool ?

                                                                                                      Howie...

[Andrew]

So i guess there's no reason to use a vacuum guage, if i just have a accurate sync tool. What would then be the advantage to a Harmonizer compared to a Motion Pro tool ?

                                                                                                      Howie...

Just depends on what tool you feel more comfortable using as well as which is more accurate

[howardrichman]

"I don`t see a reason that non mercury refill kit should not work on your old sync machine , as a matter of fact I`m gonna order one for myself ."


I believe that mercury is much heavier than almost any other liquid. Therefore reading may differ if you use another fluid. Also Mercury does not stick to the tubes as say trans fluid would (or any other kind of oil

So do i just junk my old Mercury sync tool? How much different would it be as the homemade stick ruler sync tool useing colored water? The problem w/ the newer model Motion Pro unit, if not used enough, I'de be buying sync fluid every time of use from infrequent using the tool; from evaporation.

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[howardrichman]

So do i just junk my old Mercury sync tool? How much different would it be as the homemade stick ruler sync tool useing colored water? The problem w/ the newer model Motion Pro unit, if not used enough, I'de be buying sync fluid every time of use from infrequent using the tool; from evaporation.

                                                                                                                                              Howie...

I made a sync tool using a 3' ruler and some 1/4" clear hose. It sort of worked. I used 2 cycle oil as recomended, and was tricky to ballance. The oil moves slow, and isn't stable. Maybey I should have diluted w/kerosine. it's very close, and will be much better than where I was.  I'll probably wait for a 4 cylinder Harmonizer to buy when made sometime soon.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 Howie...    

[02Tac]

Again; my question is: should'nt the Standard spec vacuum be set on one port to use for the remaining others before any throttle body syncing is done for initial vacuuum accuracy? If so, multiple accurate vacuum guages, digital version sync tools ,or a separate vac guage used w/ a manometer should be the choices for syncing.

                                                                                                                                   Howie...

The actual reading on the nmstrument is not a concern. Take a reading on 3 different days any you will get 3 different measurementas as temp and baro pressure have a direct effect.  The important thing is that you get all the carbs pulling similarly, "synced". They do not even have to be "exactly" even with each other, a small variation (usually listed in your manual) is acceptable. I usually get mine to within one graduation of each other.

Me, I have a Morgan Carbtune and find it to be a very nice tool. Same principle as the mercury filled tubes, but with stainless slides instead of fluid so there are no worries about sucking crab into the motor.
http://www.carbtune.com/

[JJones-lg]

I built a flow bench a few years back. I built and used monometers and measured in inches of water. The length of the tubes for water is pretty long for the vacuum in a manifold but there are such things out there.  The reason for mercury is that the weight of the fluid makes for a smaller and more manageable instrument.  If you change fluid from mercury the reading range changes and may be out of the range of the tool.   Measurement in inches of water is more precise than inches of mercury which is why flow benches measure in water.    
Looking at the stuff posted her I really like the Carbtune.  


jj  

[howardrichman]

I built a flow bench a few years back. I built and used monometers and measured in inches of water. The length of the tubes for water is pretty long for the vacuum in a manifold but there are such things out there.  The reason for mercury is that the weight of the fluid makes for a smaller and more manageable instrument.  If you change fluid from mercury the reading range changes and may be out of the range of the tool.   Measurement in inches of water is more precise than inches of mercury which is why flow benches measure in water.    
Looking at the stuff posted her I really like the Carbtune.  


jj  

07 650R Ninja
Well; I was trying to choose between the Morgan Carbtune, and the Harmonizer. I like the benefit of the Carbtune being able to tune in and see all 4 cylinders at the same time, but the Harmonizer has many raves on ADV. Rider; and displays RPM's and Vacuum. It's downside is only two cylinders vacuum can be set unless using a manifold or swapping lines. The designer is working on a 4 cylinder model at this time.

                                                                                                                           Howie...