Help me understand the new MotoGP setup

[Rockin SV]

In this article http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2012/01/fim-announces-9-motogp-claiming-rule-teams-for-2012-utilizing-modified-superbike-motors-from-honda-bmw-aprilia-and-kawasaki-big-rule-changes-expected-for-2013/
They state that the engines are going to be Aprilia, BMW, Honda and Kawasaki but yet I see Yamaha still having a team. Does this mean that Team Yamaha will be using one of those motors? If so that seems kind of awkward, especially as much as they've claimed to have borrowed from GP technology on the R1 engine.

[miles]

That article is only about the CRT teams, not the factory teams.  The factory teams will be pretty much the same as ever.

[Rockin SV]

That article is only about the CRT teams, not the factory teams.  The factory teams will be pretty much the same as ever.

Ok, I'm feeling silly now, what are CRT teams? That must be the non-factory teams but don't know what it stands for.

[DogBoy]

CRT = Claiming Rule Teams.

The "Claiming Rule" part applies to the engines. Other teams can put up a certain amount of money and "claim" another team's engine. This is supposed to discourage anyone from building wildly expensive production-based engines for private teams. Many types of claiming rules have been used for years in all types of racing with mixed results.

In 2012, there will be two types of entries: prototypes and CRT bikes.

MotoGP allows for private CRT teams to build their own chassis and used a production-based engine from any manufacturer. Production-based engines will, theoretically, reduce costs. CRT teams will get to use more engines during the year and get to carry more fuel than full prototype teams (the factory teams from Yamaha, Honda and Ducati).

The factory prototype teams are limited to six race engines per rider for the whole season (there are penalties for using more) and their engines must not use any production parts. Factories cannot build a CRT bike. For example, Aprilia cannot build a chassis and put a heavily modified RSV4 engine in it. The CRT rules were established to reduce costs for private teams and add more bikes to the grid. There have been predictions that the new rules package will a) improve the racing throughout the field, b) beef up the grids, c) cause the end of the world as we know it. No one knows for sure.

There is whole lot more to the rules package and the politics behind it, but thats a reasonably simple (if not very clear) explanation.

[Blunder]

According to this-

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jan/120112mk.htm

-the CRT idea will take a more important role in MotoGP starting in 2013.

Ezpeleta On CRT: You Ain't Seen Nothin' Yet
by chase winstead
Wednesday, January 11, 2012
It's telling about the neutered, guarded status of Ducati's current MotoGP effort that Dorna boss Carmelo Ezpeleta - not Valentino Rossi, Nicky Hayden or Ducati Corse general manager Filippo Preziosi - delivered the most newsworthy nuggets during the annual Ducati Wrooom press event in the Italian Alps.

Ezpeleta took the podium to both proselytize and defend the CRT formula that debuts in 2012 in MotoGP and that he hopes will revolutionize the premier class in the next few years. CRT teams are using production-based 1000cc engines and either buying frames from chassis manufacturers or developing them in-house.

The arrival of CRT signals a seismic change in MotoGP, with a shift away from the factories toward privateer teams with factory involvement. But the real impact of the CRT movement will be felt in 2013, when Ezpeleta said new regulations will better balance the performance of CRT bikes and factory machines and further restrain costs.

Among the rules Ezpeleta proposes for 2013 are limiting factories to two prototype machines and forcing them to sell, not lease, satellite bikes, and a maximum price of 1 million euros for all customer bikes, whether CRT or satellite. Other proposals include a spec ECU, rev limit, restrictions on engine development and a weight handicap system.

Don Carmelo wants the 2013 regulations to be approved by the factories and teams by this May.

"Motorsport is based on two pillars: technology and entertainment," Ezpeleta said. "If, in a moment of crisis, you have to choose between one or the other, you choose the show because that is what brings in proceeds from television and the circuits.

"I want 2013 to be completely different from 2012."

ENDS

[DogBoy]

Unless Tomek's friends get to Ezpeleta first.

[Blunder]

 

People still bemoan the loss of the stinkwheels when they went to the 1000cc 4 strokes, so expect more of the same.

The only constant thing in racing is change and we'll still watch, especially if the racing is close.

[Rockin SV]

Thank alot for all the replies, I more or less have got it now

[tomek]

Unless Tomek's friends get to Ezpeleta first.

Hey , I have not said "friends" , I`ve just offered help .

Elvis only knows what will happen in 2013 . New rules for 2012  but they want to  flipped them  again just one year later ?   It is insane . MotoGP needs stability not some erratic leadership . That dude , Ezpeleta, seems to be the new and improved version of Edmondson , who IIRC eventually left for  “unforeseen health issues ” .

They are trying to negotiate in public , bully  manufactures , I`m pretty sure lotsa guys on certain island get insulted deeply even as  I type this .

Yamaha have been racing in top prototype class since mid 70s , Honda since early 80s and some asshat wants to essentially kick them out ?

F him .

[veefer800canuck]

All I know is something has to be done.

Look at the size of the grids in the Rainey/Lawson/Schwantz/Doohan era, and look at them now.

0:24 onwards and you'll see my point.

22 bikes at Suzuka 1991 according to MotoGp.com.



And 20 years later, check at 1:08. 14 bikes at Qatar.
 (no embedding)

http://youtu.be/PCOXml-Z99k

[veefer800canuck]

Playing with the historical season standings at MGP.com yields the following 500GP/MotoGP participation by total number of riders/season:

1955: 26 riders contesting the championship

1965: 25 riders in the championship

1970: 45 different riders rode during the year, obviously not all rounds, this includes WildCards, replacement riders, etc.

1975: 46 riders

1980: 23 riders

1985: 28 riders

1990: 35 riders

1990: 500cc grid switches from 5 to 4 bikes per row.

1995: 32 riders

2000: 31 riders

2004: MotoGP grid switches from 4 to 3 bikes per row.

2005: 27 riders

2006: 22

2007: 26

2008: 21

2009: 21

2010: 22

2011: 22


Those numbers dont tell the entire story, because of the wildcards and (injury) replacement riders listed. We have been flirting with minimum grids for some time now. Remove the Roger Lee Haydens and Miguel DuHamels And Ben Bostroms from the more recent numbers, and it's looking bleak.

As we all know, when Kawasaki pulled out of GP racing, there was a shoestring effort by Hayate Racing (now Forward Racing) which did a remarkable job soldiering through the 2009 season with Melandri at the controls, and zero development of the bike throughout the season. That they even had any notable placings at all was probably mainly due to Melandri's riding, and hard work by the rest of the team.

The important thing to note here is that DORNA was doing most of the funding for Hayate to keep the "plain brown wrapper" Kawasaki on the grid. Notice that funding did not return the following season? It was merely a stopgap measure to fill the grid to the minimum FIM spec.

Race series organizers are not in the business of funding teams. Something needs to change or GP racing will die.

[Rockin SV]

All I know is something has to be done.

Look at the size of the grids in the Rainey/Lawson/Schwantz/Doohan era, and look at them now.

0:24 onwards and you'll see my point.

22 bikes at Suzuka 1991 according to MotoGp.com.



And 20 years later, check at 1:08. 14 bikes at Qatar.
 (no embedding)

http://youtu.be/PCOXml-Z99k

Wow, some great racing there, and exactly what is missing now. I didn't see any races this year in MotoGP with anything nearly as exciting as that. The AMA races had it last year for sure.

[ceilingcat]

There is a pretty good run down of what CRT teams can / cannot do and the differences in the 2012 season in the April edition of Sport Rider.  From what I gather from this article:  A prototype chassis is all that is needed; a WSBK spec engine can be used in the frame.  Grisini Honda will run a prototype chassis by FTM and a CBR1000RR engine.  Other CRT teams are doing the same - Colin Edwards BMW powered bike, a Kawasaki powered bike etc.

Good for MotoGP as there are more 3 teams this year and possibly 5 more for the latter part of the year - total grid of 25 bikes.  Also good is the current production bike engines make so freaking much power that they can run in MotoGP and be competitive.

Bad because they are not actually prototype bikes, just the frame.  Now if some bizarre new frame was put into production, or a focused null gravity pressor field was invented - then it would be really interesting.  Also bad because it looks like MotoGP will be transformed into WSBK  II.

[stk0308]

There's nothing in the CRT rules that states they have to run a production motor.  They just can't receive direct from a factory(basicly a member of the MSMA) support.  Yes it's a bit nebulous.