What are the Euro mfgs doing that the Japanese aren't?

[atadaskew]

Most of the Euro mfgs have been posting sales increases.

Latest is Ducati with a 43% gain:

http://blogs.motorcyclistonline.com/ducati-north-america-reports-43-percent-growth-2011-2613.html

Over the past weekend I visited my local Euro shop and the local Honda/Kawi dealer.
The Honda shop was empty, not a customer in site even though they had new bikes like the 2012 CBR1000RR (which looks sweet in the HRC colours).
The Duc/Aprilia/MV Agusta/Guzzi shop was hopping with what seemed like half the bikes there having 'sold' signs on them. (They had maybe 30 bikes in the showroom)

So what are the Japanese doing wrong?

[ridingfar]

The big Jap manufacturers don't inspire passion about the machines and riding them like the Euro Mfgr's do. There are a few notable exceptions, but not nearly as broadly across the brands and models.

[tigertim955]

Euro brands have the allure of affordable "exotica".

When you ride a Ducati or Guzzi guys in Ferraris' give you a wave. I had a guy in a Lambo chase me down to have a look at what I was riding. In the big picture that kind of thing isn't important but it feels good to be part of a unique club that Japanese marques can't get into.

Never even got a nod from a Camry driver when I was on my various Kawis.

[DogBoy]

The % are worthless without the actual numbers. A 43% increase by Ducati N.A. is hardly a blip on the sales chart for the Japanese. Ducati sells somewhere between five and ten thousand bikes in the US. (Same for BMW. Truimph sells around 12-15,000 IIRC) The Japanese brands each need to sell over a hundred thousand (or more) to get by in the US market. So what if Ducati sells an extra 1,500 bikes. That doesn't mean anything others than they are appealing to slightly more of a narrow, well-heelled market. When the economy comes back and credit is easier to get, the Japanese brands will post large sales gains. Until their market has access to credit again, they will stagnate.

[McRider]

Honda, for one, has definitely lost its Mojo.  They used to be innovators and sell bikes that everybody else copied.  All at reasonable prices.  Now they sell expensive, wierd looking bikes that have features nobody wants, like auto transmissions.  Maybe they make their money selling cars and don't care.  

Kawasaki seems to be the hard charger of the Japanese brands.  

BMW and Triumph seem to have a lock on the adventure touring segment, which is the hot seller nowadays.  

[atadaskew]

The % are worthless without the actual numbers. A 43% increase by Ducati N.A. is hardly a blip on the sales chart for the Japanese. Ducati sells somewhere between five and ten thousand bikes in the US. (Same for BMW. Truimph sells around 12-15,000 IIRC) The Japanese brands each need to sell over a hundred thousand (or more) to get by in the US market. So what if Ducati sells an extra 1,500 bikes. That doesn't mean anything others than they are appealing to slightly more of a narrow, well-heelled market. When the economy comes back and credit is easier to get, the Japanese brands will post large sales gains. Until their market has access to credit again, they will stagnate.

You should tell that to the Japanese dealerships that have bikes collecting dust on the showroom floors.
I'm sure it would make those shop owners feel better.
 

[cbsnbiker]

The 99% (customers of Japanese brands) don't have the spare dollars to spend.

The 1% (customers of Euro brands) do.

 ...

Oh, wait, this isn't P.O.  

[jeepinbanditrider]

The prices are also getting closer Japanese vs. Euro bikes so if you have the money to get what you want in a Japanese flavor for a little bit more you can get the "exotic" euro branded bike or the euro bike that you always wanted years ago but couldnt' afford compared to a Japanese bike.

[atadaskew]

It's the exchange rate. Japanese bikes have always been seen as the everyman-affordable options. Now that the yen and dollar exchange is AFU, the Euro stuff that people have always said "some day..." is looking like a bargain in many cases, and as reachable-dreams in many others. It's money, pure and simple.

If a dream has become reachable, then what made that the dream to start off?

What you are suggesting is buying Japanese has always been the back up choice as they are not as desirable (for whatever reason) as the European choice.  

If this is the case, then with the price difference rapidly shrinking between the two, the Japanese should really be worried for the future.

[TBone]

My decision-making process was as follows:
1: I have a limited amount of disposable income.
2: If I'm going to spend it on a bike, it has to be somewhat "special" ie, not generic UJM.
3: Visit nearest Triumph dealer.
4: profit! (them, not me, unfortunately)

[atadaskew]

The 99% (customers of Japanese brands) don't have the spare dollars to spend.

The 1% (customers of Euro brands) do.

 ...

Oh, wait, this isn't P.O.  

That would make sense if the Euro bikes were much more expensive than the Japanese bikes.
But seeing that they are very close in price in many cases it does not.

Why would a Ducati 848 EVO at $14K sell, while a Yamaha R1 at $14K does not?
Why would a BMW K13S at $16K sell while a Honda VFR1200 at $16K does not?

[Bowtie76]

If a dream has become reachable, then what made that the dream to start off?

What you are suggesting is buying Japanese has always been the back up choice as they are not as desirable (for whatever reason) as the European choice.  

If this is the case, then with the price difference rapidly shrinking between the two, the Japanese should really be worried for the future.

Agreed,  look at most of the comparos.  Japanese bikes still win most of those, and your not seeing Ducati winning on Sundays.  MV's are expensive but when was the last time one won a shootout.

I think euro bikes look better and seem to be a little softer around the edges, making them much better allround bikes and not just crusers and RR's like the japanese bikes.

[bomber]

I think a lot of it might have to do with the respective sizes of the companies -- the Euros are tiny, compared to the big 4, and can turn on a dime to change marketing and sales pitches -- they can turn on a quarter to actually change their products.

The big 4 are, well, big, and their operations demand a certain volume to be profitable -- this makes them much more risk averse than the Euros, and it takes em longer to make any changes.

[DogBoy]

You should tell that to the Japanese dealerships that have bikes collecting dust on the showroom floors.
I'm sure it would make those shop owners feel better.
 

Doesn't make it any less true.

[Rincewind]

The Euro/Brit brands work hard to make their bikes desireable.  They appeal to their own positive cultural nuances: Italian stuff is innately beautiful and desireable; Brit stuff is inherently strong and brawly.  Some of the Japanese bikes, such as the CB1000R for instance, appear to be great bikes, but Honda makes little-to-no effort to make it desireable (no extra colors, no extra features, special order).  That is despite the CB1000R having many positive qualities associated with Japanese - efficient, smooth, and well assembled (though ironically the CB1000R is assembled in Italy).

If I ran America Honda or another of the American branches of Japanese bikes, I would at least make an attempt to make these bikes desirable.  And I'd bring bikes to the US that people would get excited about, such as naked bikes, retro bikes, and adventure bikes.  The thing that's needed is excitement - it doesn't matter what country it's built in.

[Rincewind]

I was in the nearest (1hr away!) Ducati shop just yesterday, which also carries Kawa-Suki.  Upon entering the store I was presented with not one color Multistrada, but 3 or 4 colors in different trims, one of which was a lovely special-edition Pike's Peak version.  And walking by the Monsters, I was presented with a whole line-up of colors and options like I was walking into a brothel.  The SS bikes were pure bling with red-wheels and exciting angles.  

Then you look over at the Kawa-suki's and there is one color bike by itself, that's it.  They don't import Bandits and Stroms in many colors.  They don't cater to the consumer, they just offer "one-size fits all" on many of their models.  Will I travel 1hr to buy or service a bike that I'm excited about, instead of a bike that I can buy in my own town or county?  Yes - definitely.  Would I rather buy a bike nearby?  Yes!  Definitely!

[black hills]

I think the Euro brands are taking a marketing tip from HD. I was at the GP in Indy last year and the Ducati island was far more impressive than anything the big 4 did

[Giaka]

So what are the Japanese doing wrong?

Rehashing the same old shit and putting us to sleep with boring designs. I blame Honda.    Japan has been making motorcycles for a long time. Why did BW beat them to the pendulum lighting thing? That's a no brainer. It should have been standard equipment on bikes YEARS ago. Not to mention the price gap is not that big anymore. I have a choice now for $14,000, a CBR1000RR or a BMW S1000RR? You could not have said that 10 or 15 years ago.

[stk0308]

Japanese sportbikes, dirtbikes, and sporttourers to a certain extent, are sold every year on the "Newer!  Faster!  Improved!" catch phrases.  So that is what that consumer expects, if they don't see it, as they have these past few years, they don't want to buy new bikes.  This does not explain the Japanese cruiser market, which I have no real experience with.

Euro-brand consumers are used to a model evolving, without the big "Newer!  Faster!  Improved!" branding.  So they're not put off by buying a bike not being touted as the latest-greatest thing.

These are just my observation developed opinions.  I could be wrong.

[Kneescrubber]

So what are the Japanese doing wrong?

I suppose the same question could have been asked of the European manufacturers back in the 80's and 90's.