Automatic Tranny's

[Silverbird]

Honda's new 700 confirms they believe DCT's or auto shifters are the future.  I bet they are planning to use them on anything that could benefit from it.  I wouldn't hesitate to buy an automatic and I don't understand why anyone would want to tour without one but that's just me.  Don't you guys get tired of shifting while droning through a giant city during rush hour at the end of a 500 mile day?

The FJR AE fazeout and the limited success of the VFR1200 are proof it's not that big of a deal.  Funny Honda invested their entire company in their DCT because I guess they didn't get the memo

[atadaskew]

I like manually changing gears, whether on scooters, motos or cars/trucks.

I live in LA and it can take me up to 45 minutes in a car to get to work.  Which is 8 miles away.
And yet my new Jeep has a manual transmission.

Maybe I'm just dreaming of the open road..

Anyway, auto boxes have little interest to me, but the majority of car owners disagree (in the US at least) and maybe DCTs are needed for the long term viability of the moto industry.

[Blunder]

They're trying to entice scooter riders to move up to full-sized motorcycles.

[gritsngravy]

Shockingly they do offer manual transmissions for those that like to shift for themselves.   Choice and variety is actually a good thing in life.  Hondas been making automatic bikes for years and the company seems to keep on keeping on.  

[Kraz]

I wonder if CVT's would be better than automatics and DCT's...

[Rabidsnipe]

  maybe DCTs are needed for the long term viability of the moto industry.

This. I think it is an attempt to appeal to a broader market. The vast majority of cars in the US have automatics. I imagine there is a segment of te population that would like to try motorcycling but don't know how to shift and aren't interested in a scooter.

[garry]

I have a DCT-type transmission in my VW GLI and can't say I'm a fan. It doesn't do what I want when driving in a sporty fashion on a twisty road, so I put it in manual and paddle shift myself. But I miss being able to control the exact timing of the shift, even when in manual mode. On a bike, the exact timing of letting out the clutch on downshifts is pretty important for front end feel on corner entries, or timing a shift when flopping the bike back and forth through a chicane type section.

I guess having the option to be in automatic for commuting in stop and go traffic and manual for sporty isn't a bad thing. The thing I noticed is that when in automatic mode, it tends to pick way too high a gear to be able to accelerate briskly into an opening when changing lanes, so I end up using "sport" mode or manual mode when slicing and dicing moving traffic. Automatic wins hands down for stop and go. Gas mileage takes a huge beating when I'm in manual mode.

I can see the DCT type transmission being desirable for riders that aren't as interested in sporty riding and vehicle dynamics as I am.

[tomek]

 I put it in manual and paddle shift myself. But I miss being able to control the exact timing of the shift, even when in manual mode.

Honest question , I`ve never driven DCT ,  is there  delay between command ( paddle ) and actual shift ?  

[scottzilla]

Despite a handful of ignorant old timers, auto tranny's are embraced  in modern sports cars.  I guess people got tired of paying a ton of money for a car they have to manually shift
Automatics have caught on in 4x4 applications and even tractor trailers.  At this point, 1/4 times are faster with an automatic than stick shift.  If you buy a manual trans today you are doing so because you want something to do, or out of boredom.  They offer no advantages other than being able to shift when you want to, which makes no sense at all.   You can buy a car with paddle shift if you really want the illusion of "control".
Motorcycles are 30 years behind in this regard.  There is no reason automatics should not spread to bikes but the same hurdles that affected cars must be negotiated first.  

[garry]

Honest question , I`ve never driven DCT ,  is there  delay between command ( paddle ) and actual shift ?  

Sometimes the shift can be quite sluggish IMO. Other times it's pretty much instant. I'm sure each transmission behaves a bit differently.  I think the sluggish shifts are when it has the wrong next gear chosen, like assuming I want to upshift to 5th next, but instead I actually downshift to 3rd for the upcoming 90 degree uphill corner. It is nice to have the computer perfectly match revs on downshifts though.

[tomek]

Automatics have caught on in 4x4 applications and even tractor trailers.
  

No offense scottzilla ,  but those auto-manuals are awful , I`d gladly stick them in Eaton`s ass . The shortage of drivers experienced by  the trucking industry couple of years ago was the only reason for their existence . I guess mastering  non-synchro dual range manual transmission was waaaaay too much for  younger generations .
Gimme old school 10 speed and foggetaboutit .

Sport cars ? Gimmie 5-6 speed with lighten or aluminum flywheel ( less inertia , revs rise/drop quicker ) and foggetaboutit .

I`d pay extra  for manual tranny .

[Silverbird]

And if someone isn't coordinated enough to handle a manual shifting bike, they probably shouldn't be riding a motorcycle to begin with.  It will be interesting to see crash stats on auto tranny's in the future.

[sprk_sprd]

Any word yet on whether manufactures are also building motorcycles which back themselves into parking spots automatically too?  Is that also "the future?"    

[R Doug]

They're trying to entice scooter riders to move up to full-sized motorcycles.

And, my guess, any current non-rider who is intimidated by a manual shift (e.g. my wife).  

[Kootenanny]

Despite a handful of ignorant old timers, auto tranny's are embraced  in modern sports cars.  I guess people got tired of paying a ton of money for a car they have to manually shift
Automatics have caught on in 4x4 applications and even tractor trailers.  At this point, 1/4 times are faster with an automatic than stick shift.  If you buy a manual trans today you are doing so because you want something to do, or out of boredom.  They offer no advantages other than being able to shift when you want to, which makes no sense at all.   You can buy a car with paddle shift if you really want the illusion of "control".
Motorcycles are 30 years behind in this regard.  There is no reason automatics should not spread to bikes but the same hurdles that affected cars must be negotiated first.  

OK, I guess I'm an "ignorant old timer."  For me, it ain't a "sports car" if it hasn't got a clutch pedal.  Yeah, yeah, I know that autos shift faster, are often stronger, and can return better lap times...but I'm not racing, I'm driving for the fun of it, and a big part of the fun is shifting gears--it's an extra level of control.  Can you double-clutch a downshift with an automatic, while you're on the brakes coming into the corner, then let out the clutch while powering out?  Not really...it's not so much the gear shifting but the way you can modulate the power with the clutch when you need to.

I`d pay extra  for manual tranny .

Ha, around here, they charge extra for manuals!  When I was recently shopping to replace my SUV which was destroyed in a head-on, one of my requirements was a manual transmission...which, of course, limited my selection drastically.  At the Honda place, I drove a 2006 CRV with a manual--and the salesman admitted that they do charge a premium for manual transmissions, as a lot of locals want them (small-town rural in the mountains...).  

It's real. The manual-trans-only snobs need to realize adding more choices won't diminish their fun. It will only bring more people onto two wheels.

Well, the problem is, at least in the automotive world, that manufacturers often phase out manuals in favour of automatics, because that seems to be what the majority of people want to buy.  If it truly is simply "adding more choices," well that's well and good--but when it becomes a matter of "automatic only," that bites!

And if someone isn't coordinated enough to handle a manual shifting bike, they probably shouldn't be riding a motorcycle to begin with.

And then, there's this.  I've made this argument before, and I stick by it.  Indeed, I'd suggest that if someone isn't co-ordinated enough to drive a manual transmission car, they possibly shouldn't be driving (not that they would be forced to drive a manual, but they should be capable of learning how--IMO that demonstrates some awareness of what your car is doing, which in itself may indicate better awareness overall...).

All in all, I just prefer shifting for myself--in my 4-wheel as well as my 2-wheel vehicles.  Doesn't really matter to me if someone else wants to drive an auto, but it does bother me when the manufacturers stop giving me the option.

[AutoXer]

Don't care what anyone else chooses, I just prefer to shift for myself, in my car, my truck, and my bike.  It's a skill to be mastered, and these days it's something very few people can do well.  I have no desire whatsoever for any sort of "floppy paddle" automatic (they still make the final decision on the shift, not you, so what's the point - let the damn thing shift for you) or a CVT.  Give me a proper manual, and the manufacturers can just skip trying to pretend the floppy paddles are anything but an automatic that is simply pretending to be a real transmission.  

[scottzilla]

No offense but the coordination comments from the ignorant old timers sound just like the car folks.   You can't "properly" drive a car unless you know how to drive a stick shift.
Silly right?  

[Kootenanny]

No offense but the coordination comments from the ignorant old timers sound just like the car folks.   You can't "properly" drive a car unless you know how to drive a stick shift.
Silly right?  

Well, if you're just sitting in stop'n'go traffic, then auto is just fine...indeed, I'd prefer it for that.

But for "spiritied" driving, a manual transmission just adds another dimension, which many of us prefer.  Sure, there may no longer be any real advantage--except that the overall experience is more "fulfilling," if you will.

I mean, really, otherwise you might as well just be driving a golf cart, no matter how powerful...

[scottzilla]

Well, if you're just sitting in stop'n'go traffic, then auto is just fine...indeed, I'd prefer it for that.

But for "spiritied" driving, a manual transmission just adds another dimension, which many of us prefer.  Sure, there may no longer be any real advantage--except that the overall experience is more "fulfilling," if you will.

I mean, really, otherwise you might as well just be driving a golf cart, no matter how powerful...

You already admitted the manual offers no performance over the automatic.  Your reasons for wanting one are "just because".  
We are in agreement.  

[Kootenanny]

You already admitted the manual offers no performance over the automatic.  Your reasons for wanting one are "just because".  
We are in agreement.  

More that I prefer it, than "just because."