Automatic Tranny's

[atadaskew]

I don't need a clutch lever to feel good about a bike.

I do when I'm pulling a toight U-turn and want to balance it with the clutch and rear brake.

[black hills]

how ya gonna wheelie a FJR without the clutch????

[Kootenanny]

I don't need a clutch lever to feel good about a bike.

I do

[cbsnbiker]

Never say never.
I'm sure 25-30 years ago people said the same thing about trucks. I mean after all, they’re not practical transportation and nobody buys them for that, right? Surely there will always be manual trannies offered in trucks.
Just try to buy a new ½ ton truck with a manual trans anymore; not even an option at any cost on most makes.
Never underestimate the power of the trend following masses to take choices away from those whose opinion is in the minority.

Is there a place for automatics in motorcycles? Sure there is. I’m just very wary of supporting it as I’ve had several of my automotive options taken away because manuals aren’t “popular” enough and are simply not offered, not even as an option. I cringe at the thought of losing motorcycle options in the same manner.

I've never owned a pickup truck.

JOOC, what's the advantage of having a manual transmission in a pickup vs an automatic?

[bomber]

I've never owned a pickup truck.

JOOC, what's the advantage of having a manual transmission in a pickup vs an automatic?

same as in any vehicle -- cost, ease of maintenance, ability to control the torque to the drive wheels . . . .

[Thunderbox]

Don't care what anyone else chooses, I just prefer to shift for myself, in my car, my truck, and my bike.  It's a skill to be mastered, and these days it's something very few people can do well.  I have no desire whatsoever for any sort of "floppy paddle" automatic (they still make the final decision on the shift, not you, so what's the point - let the damn thing shift for you) or a CVT.  Give me a proper manual, and the manufacturers can just skip trying to pretend the floppy paddles are anything but an automatic that is simply pretending to be a real transmission.  

I think there are litterally millions of people capable of shifting a manual with very good proficiency.  The motorcycle world is full of them and the car world still has many who can shift very well.

It is a matter of what you are used to.  New bike owners will probably migrate to more autos and older bike riders will be reluctant to change where and what they feel comfortable with.  My best guess is, as time passes there will be more and more automatic shifting motorcycles and eventually the dedicated sport bikes will probably be the only ones with a manual transmission.  It will be determined by the market and consumer demand.  When demand goes up for automatics manufacturers will build less manuals and more automatics.  Very simple.  Nothing anyone says on this site or any other will change that.

It has already started with quite a few manufacturers.  It's the future and time will not stand still for any invention.

[Rattlehead]

same as in any vehicle -- cost, ease of maintenance, ability to control the torque to the drive wheels . . . .

agreed.
The cost factor alone is enough for me. Under hard use auto tranny's have a hard time passing 100,000mi (many don't even make it that far) and cost between $1000-2000 to rebuild. I can typically put in a clutch for about $200 and I've never had a problem passing 100k mi on one. Manual transmissions themselves seem to last practically forever.

Also, with a large trailer autos tend to "hunt" between gears at even the slightest incline and just never seem to pick the right gear. I've haven't pulled with a really new one with a "tow" setting so I can't speak as to whether they are any better.
Manuals also have the benefit of compression braking; a BIG plus when you're REALLY pulling something big or are encountering a long downhill stretch. I know some of the new autos have this feature but I question just how well it works. Torque converters are not made to have such high reverse torque applied to them when their locked and having it locked is the only way to get truly effective engine braking.  

Like was said, cost, maintenance, and control.

[black hills]

agreed.
The cost factor alone is enough for me. Under hard use auto tranny's have a hard time passing 100,000mi (many don't even make it that far) and cost between $1000-2000 to rebuild. I can typically put in a clutch for about $200 and I've never had a problem passing 100k mi on one. Manual transmissions themselves seem to last practically forever.

Also, with a large trailer autos tend to "hunt" between gears at even the slightest incline and just never seem to pick the right gear. I've haven't pulled with a really new one with a "tow" setting so I can't speak as to whether they are any better.
Manuals also have the benefit of compression braking; a BIG plus when you're REALLY pulling something big or are encountering a long downhill stretch. I know some of the new autos have this feature but I question just how well it works. Torque converters are not made to have such high reverse torque applied to them when their locked and having it locked is the only way to get truly effective engine braking.  

Like was said, cost, maintenance, and control.

fleet maintenance records to not support your claim. Autos over the long haul are cheaper to maintain than a manual. One of the reasons we have switched all our trucks to autos. Newer models with tow settings (different shift progamming) work very well for towing and we have seen zero transmission problems with the new auto's . modern electronics have come a long way in protecting parts.

[gritsngravy]

Either some of the folks posting to this thread are super young or have very bad memories.   Honda has been putting out automatic bikes since the 70's and they have yet to crack open the market.    There was the clutch less cb750, cb/cm 400's that never sold very well.    Yamaha has dropped their auto clutch FJR.    Choice and options are a good thing but thinking automatics are going to become the norm is funny as hell.

[Kootenanny]

fleet maintenance records to not support your claim. Autos over the long haul are cheaper to maintain than a manual. One of the reasons we have switched all our trucks to autos. Newer models with tow settings (different shift progamming) work very well for towing and we have seen zero transmission problems with the new auto's . modern electronics have come a long way in protecting parts.

Although I'm one of the guys dissing automatics, I have to agree...from an engineering standpoint, the new automatics are very good.  Indeed, one of the reasons most full-size pickups have gone to auto only is because they're better for towing and possibly more reliable in the long haul (at least, with "joe public"behind the wheel...).

[Kootenanny]

Either some of the folks posting to this thread are super young or have very bad memories.   Honda has been putting out automatic bikes since the 70's and they have yet to crack open the market.    There was the clutch less cb750, cb/cm 400's that never sold very well.    

Yeah, I remember the Hondamatic 400/450, but I think the CB750 was even before my time...the thing is, these things were only in production for a short while back in the 70s/80s; it's not like Honda has been continuously producing them ever since.  

[Rattlehead]

fleet maintenance records to not support your claim. Autos over the long haul are cheaper to maintain than a manual. One of the reasons we have switched all our trucks to autos. Newer models with tow settings (different shift progamming) work very well for towing and we have seen zero transmission problems with the new auto's . modern electronics have come a long way in protecting parts.

My brother has worked in a tranny shop for a number of years and there is a very substantial number of 1/2 tons with burned up trannies well before 100k here in farm country. I know guys that go through at least 1 auto a year because of snow plowing and trailering (6-8000lb semi-regularly), despite huge tranny coolers.
Under light use I have no doubts the better ones will run 200k before needing rebuilt. My Expedition has 156k on it right now and still works flawlessly. However, certain mfg's (won't get into that one) seem to have trouble making it much past 100k regardless of usage. When you put the screws to them though (any of the mfg's), they fall apart fast. Maybe the heavier trucks hold up better, I don't know, but I have little confidance in the 1/2 tons from what I've seen personally. Remember though, I'm speaking from a completely non-comercial point of view. When you start talking "fleets" that's a totally different environment.

Despite all of that, a manual with a driver that knows what their doing (a very important factor with a manual) will last as long as the best autos and willstill cost less to rebuild. 9 times out of 10 a manual needs nothing more than a clutch to get it back on the road (again, from my own experiance).
I will always chose a manual because of my own personal preference. Your results may vary. If autos are working out in your fleets then great, there are several large auto tranny mfg plants around here and I'm sure the workers there appreciate your patronage.

[Thunderbox]

Either some of the folks posting to this thread are super young or have very bad memories.   Honda has been putting out automatic bikes since the 70's and they have yet to crack open the market.    There was the clutch less cb750, cb/cm 400's that never sold very well.    Yamaha has dropped their auto clutch FJR.    Choice and options are a good thing but thinking automatics are going to become the norm is funny as hell.

You are correct.  My wife has a 400 Hondamatic.  The reason they never became popular is obvious should you ever ride one.  2 speed slush box tranny.  Thats why the GM 2 speeds are a thing of the past.  Now put a paddle shifted CVT in a bike like the Mana and it is pretty dang nice.  You can still do all the shifting you want or have the bike do it for you.  Seems like they are on the right track.

[black hills]

My brother has worked in a tranny shop for a number of years and there is a very substantial number of 1/2 tons with burned up trannies well before 100k here in farm country. I know guys that go through at least 1 auto a year because of snow plowing and trailering (6-8000lb semi-regularly), despite huge tranny coolers.
Under light use I have no doubts the better ones will run 200k before needing rebuilt. My Expedition has 156k on it right now and still works flawlessly. However, certain mfg's (won't get into that one) seem to have trouble making it much past 100k regardless of usage. When you put the screws to them though (any of the mfg's), they fall apart fast. Maybe the heavier trucks hold up better, I don't know, but I have little confidance in the 1/2 tons from what I've seen personally. Remember though, I'm speaking from a completely non-comercial point of view. When you start talking "fleets" that's a totally different environment.

Despite all of that, a manual with a driver that knows what their doing (a very important factor with a manual) will last as long as the best autos and willstill cost less to rebuild. 9 times out of 10 a manual needs nothing more than a clutch to get it back on the road (again, from my own experiance).
I will always chose a manual because of my own personal preference. Your results may vary. If autos are working out in your fleets then great, there are several large auto tranny mfg plants around here and I'm sure the workers there appreciate your patronage.

we don't use 1/2 tons for anyting more than what they are rated for and rarely tow with them. the 1tons and up have been fine with the autos. Part of the problem is getting the right truck for the job