Review YOUR hybrid car

[vulcanbill]

What do you have?  
How do you like it?  
Is it everything the advertising said it would be?  
Would you buy it again?


*I've applied magic pixie dust to this thread to prevent anyone w/out a hybrid from posting.*  ---that ought to do it.  

[radman]

Not a hybrid, but I'll tell ya's-stay away from it, far far away.



We have 2 here.  They lasted a week before it was clear the stated MPC (sold at 35-40) turned out to be 10-13.  We have had them 4 months, they have a little over 2 weeks of use.  All repair work attempts are being done by our techs-with incredibly poor support from the US importer.  There are no local dealers, in fact-I don't believe but for the one outfit there is a dealer network whatsoever.  It's like the Ducati from hell.

[miles]

We have an '08 Altima hybrid.  We bought it new in October of '08, and have put 115,000 miles on it so far with no problems whatsoever.  It has gotten 34.1 lifetime MPG with heavy high-speed freeway use (we live in SoCal).  The car is fantastic, and I have no complaints about the hybrid aspect at all.

I've discussed our Altima in several threads, so a quick search will reveal more details.

[radman]

I should add that our fleet has a couple dozen Priusi (Priuse's?  Pri-ii?), and has since their introduction, and but for a couple minor issues, they have been stellar as reliability goes.  Mileage averages in the 30 range in all usage.  We also now have Hybrid
Malibu's
Camry's
Explorer's
Fusion's

All of which have done pretty well, though never living up to the mileage numbers claimed by the manufacturers.  I believe these are one type of vehicle that should have mileage estimates dependent on area of use, as the cold/hot and humid climate we experience here has a direct effect.

[Rogue]

Your magic Pixie dust doesnt' work.  

[1moreroad]

2011 Ford Fusion Hybrid bought in May.  ~ 13,000 miles so far.  35 mpg lifetime average.  Spends more time in the city but more mileage on the freeway.  Below 70 or 75 mph on rolling hills on i-state and you can get 36+ mpg in warm temperatures.  Gas mileage falls off quick above 75 mph.  Gas mileage, especially in town (electric mode dominant) is very dependent on weather.  The car runs great, but the batteries need time to warm up in the cold - probably ~ 3 miles or so.  Other than that, 40 mpg - 45 mpg in town is not difficult.  This is my long winded way of saying that the EPA mileage is pretty accurate except short city trips in cold (for this car means < 45 degrees).

Very quiet car.  Handling is not sporty, but acceptable.  It corners pretty flat, but understeers pretty heavily.  Probably the energy conserving tires + weight.  Stock Ford Fusion SE has more roll in corners but grips better.  I don't like the rubber band feel of the CVT.  

Seats are comfortable, and my wife and I are picky about them.  Longest day in the car so far was about 14 hours with no discomfort.  Trunk space is tight.  Small family on a week long road with all our crap fills it up.  Sounds system is good.  My mother-in-law's opinion is that the interior compares well with her E-class.  I wouldn't go that far, but it comes close.

Navi system is good.  Hands free directions (microphone) works great even at highway speeds.  Hands free phone at highway speeds is good but not great.  Very clear displays - really like them.  Sync is ok.  Works great on my phone but sometimes doesn't want to work with my wife's phone.  I need to find time to download the Sync update.

Headlight cutoff is very distinct in spite of being halogens.  Headlights are bright but I need to adjust the low beams up a couple of degrees.

10,000 maintenance intervals are nice.

The "mood lighting" is goofy, but my sons likes all the different colors.  

EDITED TO ADD: The only other car we seriously looked at was the Prius (or spending seemingly $2k+ every year on the 10 year old Maxima that we had).  It has a larger trunk.  It has less rear passenger room.  It was more expensive than the Fusion.  It was a little louder and a little slower than the Fusion.  The gas engine kicks on at lower speeds.  I really can drive the Fusion on 40 mph roads (flat or downhill, not uphill) in electric mode.  The Prius kicks over to gas at under 20.  

I've also got a Subaru that can get a little dirty, carry bicycles, tow a small trailer, and make Home Depot runs for 8' 2x4s, etc. so the Ford is my wife's daily driver and the family travel car.

[Rogue]

Have you looked at the new Toyota Camry Hybrid?

This thing's got a 170 bhp gas engine, coupled to a 156 bhp electric motor.  This car is capable of 0-60 in....are you ready? 7 seconds!  Yes.  It's a hybrid that gets close to 40 mpg.  Okay so it's not a full hybrid like a Prius but still...that is fast for a sub-30k soft hybrid mid-size sedan with a hybrid powertrain.  

Ford better step up their game with the 2013 Fusion Hybrid.  If I were in the market, I'd get the Camry Hybrid.  If my Buick Regal came with a hybrid option that went that quickly, I would have bought that instead of the Turbo.  

[bisbonian]

I have a 2000 Honda Insight that I bought used a few years ago.

My commute is 35 miles each way 5 days a week with a mix of highway/city driving in the mountains.

I ended up having to replace the hybrid battery last year, I was just a month out of the warranty period but well within the mileage warranty period.  That was too bad and Honda said that they would gladly put a new battery in for me if I traded them 4,000 $1 bills for it.  I got my existing battery reconditioned for $800 and have been happy ever since.

I have installed a clutch switch and brake light switch toggle which fool the computer as to what is going on so I am able to turn the background charging on/off and click on the regenerative braking without pressing on the brake pedal.

This car definitely rides like a roller skate.  I have the tires pumped up to around 50psi and can feel every bump in the road.  It's a small car and I feel like other drivers try to bully me out of their way, it doesn't matter how fast I go as people just believe that I'm going slow in my hybrid.

Lifetime mileage is 65mpg, I get better in the summer and worse in the winter.  I have driven from Bisbee to Phoenix with an average mileage of 76mpg.

I look forward to the new Prius C and reports as to the actual mileage.  I'm ready for a car that's a bit more comfortable but don't need something as big as the standard Prius.  The Honda CR-Z just doesn't get anywhere near the mileage I would like.

[Cablebandit]

Have you looked at the new Toyota Camry Hybrid?

Just saw a commercial for this beast. It blew past a pack of sportbikes like they were standing still.  

[dorklord]

Have you looked at the new Toyota Camry Hybrid?

This thing's got a 170 bhp gas engine, coupled to a 156 bhp electric motor.  This car is capable of 0-60 in....are you ready? 7 seconds!  Yes.  It's a hybrid that gets close to 40 mpg.  Okay so it's not a full hybrid like a Prius but still...that is fast for a sub-30k soft hybrid mid-size sedan with a hybrid powertrain.  

Ford better step up their game with the 2013 Fusion Hybrid.  If I were in the market, I'd get the Camry Hybrid.  If my Buick Regal came with a hybrid option that went that quickly, I would have bought that instead of the Turbo.  

What do you mean by 'not a full hybrid like a Prius'?

I was under the impression that Toyota's hybrid model lineup were all the same basic technology (barring the upcoming plug in "real hybrid").

[1moreroad]

What do you mean by 'not a full hybrid like a Prius'?

It's a full hybrid.  I think Rogue means that it's not a plug in hybrid.

[Cablebandit]

A plug-in isn't a hybrid.  It's an electric car.

[Rogue]

The Toyota Camry Hybrid is very similar to the GM BAS (Belt Alternator System) like the Malibu, Buick Lacrosse, and I believe Porsche used this type at one point.  The industry calls them “soft hybrids” because they are less of a hybrid than the Prius/Volt/Fusion.  True hybrids use their electric propulsion ALL THE TIME, and is assisted by their gasoline engines.  The Volt and Fusion, use electric propulsion exclusively for longer periods due to more powerful motors and larger battery capacity.  The Prius needs assist from its gas engine 90% of the time.  A Soft Hybrid is the opposite.  It uses the electric motor to assist the gasoline engine.  So the electric motor helps in acceleration and passing, it also acts as a starter/generator.  

The upside of this soft hybrid application is that such a vehicle does not require a large, heavy battery pack.  In addition, the hybrid system can easily be installed on regular production lines of standard, gas-only version of the same vehicle.  The result is lower purchase price.  Soft Hybrids are unable to achieve the kind of mileage full hybrids can because the electric power is used ONLY FOR ASSIST and it relies on its gasoline engine for most of the motive power.  However, soft hybrids can achieve efficiencies that pure gas-only versions can only dream of.  For example, a Buick LaCrosse using a 2.4 liter engine can only get about 30 mpg in the hwy.  Fitted with eAssist  (using the same engine), the same car will get 37 mpg.  It may not seem like a big improvement but it is noticeable.  I test drove the Buick LaCrosse with e-Assist (and the one without).  The electric motor does a good job of adding torque and smoothing the power overall.  The car was pretty good although it won't win stop light grand prix!  0-60 mph times is rated at 9 seconds. However, the midrange was strong and the 6-speed transmission was always a willing partner.  The result is a capable, fun car to drive that was very smooth and very quiet, with a transparent hybrid system.

Toyota took this to the next level with their Camry Hybrid, injecting performance with a much more powerful electric motor.  

[1moreroad]

The Toyota Camry Hybrid is very similar to the GM BAS (Belt Alternator System) like the Malibu, Buick Lacrosse, and I believe Porsche used this type at one point.  The industry calls them “soft hybrids” because they are less of a hybrid than the Prius/Volt/Fusion.  True hybrids use their electric propulsion ALL THE TIME, and is assisted by their gasoline engines.  The Volt and Fusion, use electric propulsion exclusively for longer periods due to more powerful motors and larger battery capacity.  

No.  The Camrys can run EV only up to 25 mph.  You're right about the GMs.

[Rogue]

I'll defer to your knowledge of the Camry Hybrid.

How did they do that without filling up the trunk with batteries?  On the GM vehicles, the trunk space is reduced slightly but nothing like the battery intrusion common to hybrids like the Prius.  However, I have not seen the trunk of the Camry Hybrid.  I read the road test and it did not mention anything about electric propulsion up to 25mph except that it's similar to GM's soft hybrid.  It's probably not a Belt Alternator system though.  

[TwoWhldTerror]

I can say this...I drove a Kia Optima Hybrid for a week as a rental. Wow what a car! Great looks, great handling, impressive mileage! Averaged 29.8mpg in mostly city, some highway traffic.

[Jeff]

I should add that our fleet has a couple dozen Priusi (Priuse's?  Pri-ii?), and has since their introduction, and but for a couple minor issues, they have been stellar as reliability goes.  Mileage averages in the 30 range in all usage.  We also now have Hybrid
Malibu's
Camry's
Explorer's
Fusion's

[dorklord]

A plug-in isn't a hybrid.  It's an electric car.

A plug-in with a gas engine is a hybrid. It can run on either of 2 fuels: gasoline or electricity.

The crown-vic police cars that run on gas or propane are hybrids.

Most 'hybrid' cars like the Prius aren't really hybrids, as they actually only run on gasoline, and use a battery to store some of the power produced by the gas engine for later use.

[Cablebandit]

OK, technically any vehicle using two different sources of power is a hybrid.  I was thinking along the lines of the Leaf as a plug-in vehicle.

The Prius will run on only the electric motor under certain circumstances.  Your last sentence is wrong based solely on the definition of hybrid vehicles.

[radman]

What's you're poin't?

[KenH]

Ford Fusion belonging to the university. 870 miles, mostly 70mph with the cruise on. 31.9 gallons of gas. 27.3mpg. Seemed to do better around town, but sucked gas on the highway. I was not impressed. On the same trip my 1992 Olds Achieva returned 34mpg.

Performance not quite equal to my Achieva with the base engine. Something odd about the driveline leaves a vague feeling of discontent. Don't know what it is, other than a gnawing feeling the car is about to go up in a puff of plastic insulation smoke. Comfort level is about the same as the Achieva, a tad quieter and a bit better ride, but the handling leaves much to be desired, especially in traffic on greasy city streets in the rain. No love there.
Dash is loaded with a ridiculous quantity of electronic distractions. Expect people to die due to distracted Fusion drivers. It's a car, not a computer work station. Drive it. I expect most Fusion gimmicks will die quickly.

All in all, I wouldn't buy one due to the ambiance for the driver. Not very confidence inspiring at all. Also, my short commute and local errands are more efficiently made with a small motorcycle (consistent 75-80mpg). Any destination of consequence involves a highway drive in which the weight and complexity of the hybrid driveline works against efficiency. My driving certainly isn't the type which plays to any hybrid's capabilities. I expect for urban and suburban use the Fusion would make a better showing because it didn't seem to burn much fuel for all the city driving we did around Knoxville. In any case, I'd ditch the low rolling resistance tires and mount some with a stickier tread.

[Rogue]

Ken, I drove the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid version of the Fusion Hybrid.  I can't confirm the mileage but the driving dynamics was really good.  This after comparing it to other cars in its class.  The powertrain was ultra-smooth, especially in the electric to ICE transition.  Engine fire up from a stop was imperceptible.  Handling was luxury car good, not overly sporty, but it was well controlled when pushed in corners with good body control.  I did prefer the Buick LaCrosse with eAssist.  Nevertheless, both cars were way, WAY better than the Lexus 250H (hybrid).  The Lexus was overly stiff, SLOW, and the powertrain was noisier and worked too hard to be in a luxury car.  

The dashboard electronics is the standard in today's cars in that class.  Even compact cars selling for $18k+ have pretty "techie" dashboard displays.  In midsize cars like the Fusion, Camry, Malibu, Accord, buttons and displays are plentiful as you go up the ladder in price and options.  Luxury hybrid cars have more.  The new buzzword in today's luxury cars are "infotainment", which is a melding of information and entertainment in one or more dashboard displays.  

In any case, the most efficient means of powered transportation is in a scooter or electric motorcycle.  Two wheels beats four in every efficiency contest.

[Cablebandit]

  Two wheels beats four in every efficiency contest.

How about drag coefficient?  

[Rogue]

You have a point.  

I should say, "overall efficiency contest".  

However, fit a motorcycle with one of those RIFLE "bullet" fairings designed for efficiency competitions and it's all over for the car.  Google "Parabellum", which I think is the new name.  

[KenH]

Ken, I drove the Lincoln MKZ Hybrid version of the Fusion Hybrid.  I can't confirm the mileage but the driving dynamics was really good.  This after comparing it to other cars in its class.  The powertrain was ultra-smooth, especially in the electric to ICE transition.  Engine fire up from a stop was imperceptible.  Handling was luxury car good, not overly sporty, but it was well controlled when pushed in corners with good body control.  I did prefer the Buick LaCrosse with eAssist.  Nevertheless, both cars were way, WAY better than the Lexus 250H (hybrid).  The Lexus was overly stiff, SLOW, and the powertrain was noisier and worked too hard to be in a luxury car.  

The dashboard electronics is the standard in today's cars in that class.  Even compact cars selling for $18k+ have pretty "techie" dashboard displays.  In midsize cars like the Fusion, Camry, Malibu, Accord, buttons and displays are plentiful as you go up the ladder in price and options.  Luxury hybrid cars have more.  The new buzzword in today's luxury cars are "infotainment", which is a melding of information and entertainment in one or more dashboard displays.  

In any case, the most efficient means of powered transportation is in a scooter or electric motorcycle.  Two wheels beats four in every efficiency contest.

I just had a gnawing feeling something wasn't quite right with the car. After all, it's driven only by government education employees, so just keeping itself running is probably more than can be reasonably expected of it.

As for a dash full of tech toys, let the lawsuits begin.

I'm looking at an electric motorcycle for commuting and running errands. Lipo battery prices are coming down, and my commute is slow and short. The entire town is 5 miles from limit to limit, and I live 2 blocks from the middle of it. I can also access a 20 amp outlet at work for free, so the state can pay my energy bills.   I'm thinking a TW200 with street tires just for the funkiness factor.  

[coho]

Ken, you might consider an eROCKIT instead, coming soon to US shores at a significantly reduced ridiculously high price.  Used to be around $40K (when they had sold 8 or 9) now under $20K (they've sold more than 40 of 'em).
Human-electric hybrid motor-bicycle that goes 50mph.

[Kootenanny]

The dashboard electronics is the standard in today's cars in that class.  Even compact cars selling for $18k+ have pretty "techie" dashboard displays.  In midsize cars like the Fusion, Camry, Malibu, Accord, buttons and displays are plentiful as you go up the ladder in price and options.  Luxury hybrid cars have more.  The new buzzword in today's luxury cars are "infotainment", which is a melding of information and entertainment in one or more dashboard displays.  

I'm with ken here--the one time I drove a hybrid (Honda Insight), I admit to spending more time concentrating on all the fancy dashboard displays than the road.  The car seems set up to encourage efficiency competition, not efficient driving...definitely aimed more at "tech-savvy youngsters" than this old fart...



(BTW, I scoff at pixie dust... )

[Rogue]

Koot, the Honda Insight is unfortunately at the bottom of the hybrid food chain as far as driving dynamics are concerned.  It’s not a bad economy car, but it makes the Prius look really good.  Road tests confirm your findings—it’s designed for maximum efficiency at the lowest price possible.  That was Honda’s goal with the Insight and that’s what you get.  

[Kootenanny]

Rogue, I drove the Insight a few years ago when my wife and I were shopping for a new car for her--she wanted to try out a Fit, which we did, but the salesman also insisted we try the Insight.

Both of us hated it.  Not so much the car, but the driving experience was so bland and colourless...no wonder I ended looking at the dash instead of the road...otherwise I would have fallen asleep.

BTW, neither of us liked the Fit, either.  My wife's best friend has one, and my wife liked the way the seats folded up, etc.  She wanted to drive one with a stickshift, though, hence the visit to the dealer; but while the manual transmission helped, the Fit would still be a step down from her current Ford Focus wagon...

[dorklord]

OK, technically any vehicle using two different sources of power is a hybrid.  I was thinking along the lines of the Leaf as a plug-in vehicle."

That makes sense. A leaf is certainly a 'plug in' vehicle, but lately the term 'plug-in' has been used as short for 'plug-in hybrid' as opposed to a "hybrid" that runs on gas or an electric car that runs only on it's batteries.

The Prius will run on only the electric motor under certain circumstances.  Your last sentence is wrong based solely on the definition of hybrid vehicles.

I'm a bit confused...are you referring to this sentence? "Most 'hybrid' cars like the Prius aren't really hybrids, as they actually only run on gasoline, and use a battery to store some of the power produced by the gas engine for later use.

The Prius may run only on the electric motor under certain circumstances, but the for that electric motor comes from the battery pack, which was charged earlier by the gas engine (or by regenerative braking, which is another way of recapturing energy that came from the gas engine).