Mazda Not Doing Well

[Rogue]

It takes more than just making great, fun to drive cars to succeed.


Mazda says it’s considering capital increase after losses mount
Automotive News, 02.02.12
Mazda Motor Corp., the most unprofitable company among Japan’s eight biggest carmakers, said it’s considering boosting capital as four years of losses erode equity, threatening its credit rating.

Repairing Mazda’s capital “is a must,” President Takashi Yamanouchi told reporters in Tokyo today after the company’s earnings presentation. “We are considering every option. Nothing has been decided.”

The carmaker’s 73 billion yen ($958 million) fiscal third-quarter loss, reported today, lowered the company’s equity 5 percentage points to 19.2 percent of its assets. The drop in the so-called equity ratio triggered Japan’s Rating & Investment Information Inc. to warn it may lower its debt rating on Mazda.

A share sale would give Mazda room to keep its investment-level debt rating as mounting competition and the yen’s appreciation prevents the company from making profit. Mazda today downgraded its earnings outlook by projecting its biggest full-year loss in 11 years.

Mazda’s Yamanouchi said he’s confident the company will return to profitability next fiscal year and that the carmaker is “aggressively” looking to form an alliance. CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets said in a report last week that Mazda will probably post losses through the year ending March 2014.

Mazda, which raised 93.3 billion yen in a share sale in 2009, today forecast it will post a 100 billion yen loss in the year ending March, compared with a previous projection for a 19 billion yen loss.

[Flyer]

Mazda may need to re-capitalize, but I can't help 'em, and Ford divorced 'em.  

What they do need is to develop a halo car.
They used to have some interesting origami exercises, but nothing marketable.
Nissan has the GT-R.
Mitsubisi has their EVO series.
Subaru has the WRX-STi.
Honda's NSX approaches.
Toyota has the Camry.
(How's that workin out for ye)??
The poor, discontinued RX-8 ain't cuttin' it...

[scottzilla]

Apparently rogue got kicked off the car sites.  

[Galo]

Mazda may need to re-capitalize, but I can't help 'em, and Ford divorced 'em.  

The poor, discontinued RX-8 ain't cuttin' it...

Fugliest car I've ever laid eyes on.....

Mazda 6 Sportwagon -one of their prettiest cars- lasted only two years.
 

I still like the looks of that car...my wife drives one

[Highway Star]

What they do need is to develop a halo car.
They used to have some interesting origami exercises, but nothing marketable.
Nissan has the GT-R.
Mitsubisi has their EVO series.
Subaru has the WRX-STi.
Honda's NSX approaches.
Toyota has the Camry.
(How's that workin out for ye)??
The poor, discontinued RX-8 ain't cuttin' it...

I'd thing a halo car would be expensive to develop and take a a while to get to market.  They could do a lot just by adding some performance versions.  Just like the WRX-STi which I'd consider a performance version rather than a halo car.  For relatively modest money they could add:

A Miata with a turbo/supercharger.
An STi equivalent MazdaSpeed3 special.
A Mazda5 with a MazdaSpeed3 motor and suspension.
A Mazda6 performance model.
Take the RX-8 and wedge a MazdaSpeed3 motor in it which already has more HP and torque than the rotary.

Then dump one of the CX models and the ambiguous SkyActive moniker and bring back something along the lines of Zoom Zoom.

The biggest hurdle with this plan would be the engine certifications for the US.

   

[tomek]

RX8 with pistons is not RX8 .

Halo car for Mazda ? RX7 with single turbo , non of the expensive and unreliable set up of the last twin turbo RX7  .

Decent size ball bearing turbocharger with variable geometry of turbine  housing  a la Holset turbo and foggeitaboutit . Easy 400 hp in 2800 pounds car . It could be done for 35-40 grand .
Normally aspirated rotaries blow , they badly need turbocharging .

[BradleyRas]

A midsized Mazda sports sedan with powerful yet economical v-8 or supercharged v6   ....

...and a small sports coupe along the lines of the 93 RX7 (only a little bigger) with a strong power plant...
the Rx8 turned my stomach and gave me diarrhea  

[Rogue]

Mazda is stuck in a rock and a hard place for a "Halo" car.  The Rotary is horrible gas guzzler and really shouldn't be further developed--it's a dead end engine configuration.  They need to move on.

What Mazda needs is Ford.  

Sorry but in this day and age, you need the financial strength and backing of a big company with the supply chain, distribution chain, etc. of a big brother.  Mazda makes great cars but so does everyone else!

[HipGnosis]

I like the RX8.  It's small enough to be sporty w/o being so small to be totally impractical.  And the 'half'-back doors seem pretty practical.
I looked into them a few yrs ago - as a light car w/ some power, they NEED snow tires in a winter environment (I'm in Wisc) just to commute and no good options were available (I couldn't afford an RX8 and a winter vehicle at the time).
A couple years later, I found that there are decent snow tires in a lot more sizes than there use to be.  So I looked at the RX8 again - the rotary is an oil buring gas hog w/ a pretty short life.  The RX8 is off my list.

[TuffguyF4i]

Who is mazda losing big to?  Kia?  It seems to me they are playing in the same market.  Cheaper than Honda and Toyota, and semi sporty.  

[Rogue]

Mazda is losing to everyone especially Kia and Hyundai.  Mazda competes in most places they do, and against the other Japanese makes.  Also, their pricing is right in line with other Japanese makes.  Their quality is probably a bit worse than Toyota/Honda but better than Nissan.  Mazda does rely on cars and small to midsize SUV’s to boost its sales.  That’s an extremely competitive market that is dominated by the US makers.  Another thing Mazda is no longer able to do is share platforms with Ford to lower its costs.  That and the Yen to US$ exchange has really hurt them the past few years.  

Compared to Hyundai, Mazda is a flea.  Hyundai is a global player that shares its platforms worldwide.  Hyundai has a huge factory in Georgia, USA.  Mazda’s only advantage to go up against the likes of Hyundai was Ford’s backing and economies of scale.  Now that’s gone.  I personally think the Mazda/Ford relationship was one of the better symbiotic and dynamic ones in the industry as it benefited both parties very well.  Now that Mazda is on its own, they may end up like Isuzu or Suzuki Auto.

[stevent]

That's too bad, my '11 Fusion is roughly based on the Mazda 6 platform and it's a real jewel, albeit stretched for us larger Americans. They've always had some nice performance oriented designs defined by the Zoom Zoom campaign. The SkyActive thing probably means something to the Japanese but just sounds flat to me.

I owned an '80's 626 that was a beauty and a B2300, nice and nice looking vehicles, I've always liked them


 

[Rogue]

They're down but not out.  They may be ripe for a Chinese take over.

Maybe Ford will feel pitty and see an opportunity and buy a stake back into Mazda.  

[Giaka]

Hyundai is kicking their ass. Much cooler looking cars for the same or less money.

[Jason F.]

I did my part and bought two this year.

Got a 2012 Mazda 5. It is a wonderful car that would be outstanding with just a bit more power plant. Either a V6 or the Mazda Speed 3 turbo motor. Rides great, has great room, incredible visibility, and a pretty good list of features for the low to mid 20k mark (out the door).

Then we bought the wife a 2011 Mazdaspeed 3 a couple months later. That car is a beast and incredibly fun to drive. The handling is excellent although it does not quite match the Mini S it replaced. The power however is far above and beyond the Mini. The numbers may not be that much greater on paper but it certainly pulls so much harder and just seems to hit warp drive in 3rd and 4th gear. nearly 300 ft/lbs of Torque and a 6 speed manual trans will do that for you. It certainly rides better than the Mini and has considerably more room of course part of the reason she selected it.

We have had zero issues out of either car and the maintenance will be considerably lower than the Mini. I paid $24.99 for an oil change on the 5 at the dealer. The Mini dealer wanted over $90 for an oil change and look out if you had any out of warranty issues. Every job description on that car started with "First unbolt the upper engine mounts to lower the engine". Even the alternator was a nearly 4 hour labor in the books, unbolt the engine or take off the front clip/bumper/supports/ect just to change it.

[maddjack]

mazda has nice cars but the new 3 has a front grill that reminds of a Cavalier  

[Mookie]

Make a coupe based on a turbo Miata chassis.
Make a hatchback based on a Miata chassis.
Make an AWD Speed 3 wagon.
Get a midsize semi-luxury sedan, think Millenia but better.

With those in the lineup I think they'd do just fine.

[Rogue]

The Mini reliability has been at the bottom since it first came out.  Mazda easily trounces them on that.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Throwing a turbo on the Miata, and offering a hatch/coupe option would be a huge win and probably own that market.

Hyundais ar shit-buckets. Dittto with most Kias (the Sorrento seems to be an exception).  They look nice, but they fall apart and leak.  Look at how many OLD Mazdas you see on the road from before the other two brands were even close to mainstream.

The Mazda 5 from 2007 was gorgeous; I am not a fan of the weird front fenders or Voltron face rear ends of the new ones.  They got ugly in a hurry and I doubt I'm alone on this.  

There is so much potential for this company.  I don't think I ever heard them tout their reliability, which hurts them.  They truly are good, well made cars; every bit as good as Toyota and Honda, and certainly better than Nissan.

The styling got wild without the performance to back it up or make it understandable.  You can tolerate a truly weird looking car if it is fast enough... Mazda is only tapping half of that equaation.  They stopped trying to relate to America.  The weirdo styling goes over big in Japan where you don't have the opportunities to open them up like you do in the states.  If they get their bearings with us again, they can tweak their lineup and dominate.  

They probably wont though.

[Rogue]

Hyundai had double digits gains last year and they've been building up quite a reputation for making good, reliable cars.  You can't do that if you make shit-buckets.  

[Jason F.]

Throwing a turbo on the Miata, and offering a hatch/coupe option would be a huge win and probably own that market.



The Mazda 5 from 2007 was gorgeous; I am not a fan of the weird front fenders or Voltron face rear ends of the new ones.  They got ugly in a hurry and I doubt I'm alone on this.  

They did throw a turbo on the Miata for several years and it had mixed results from the sales side of things.

The styling of the 5 is split. I do not like the previous generation car at all, ugly as can be to me especially on the rear end. I have heard many people make similar comments. I much prefer my 2012 model in terms of looks from front to back.

[Mookie]

Oh I totally forgot about that horrid grin they put on the newer 3's.  That stupid face must go before they have any hope of increasing sales.  It's the only thing worse than the stupid beaks they put on Acuras.

 

[Rogue]

They did throw a turbo on the Miata for several years and it had mixed results from the sales side of things.

The problem with that is not the turbo, but that Mazda did not have an automatic transmission to go WITH the turbo.  That was true with the Miata turbo, and their current Mazdaspeed3.  There aren't enough enthusiasts that know how to drive a manual-only high performance car to sell in large quantities.  You need an auto for the US market or else it's dead in the water for the most part.

Mini sells tons of Turbo Minis because it comes with a 6-speed auto gearbox.  

[DogBoy]

My wife had a Protegé5 for 8 years. Great car, reliable and really fun to drive. I miss it. She replaced it with a CX-7 Turbo. Really nice car that does everything we ask and its still very nice to drive but has less "attitude" than the P5. Before each purchase we looked at several other makes and models, but the Mazdas won big on fun and value. My brother bought a CX-9 for his family has been happy with it and my parents are looking to replace their Toyota Sienna with a Mazda 5. All were, or will be, new car purchases.

I'd like to find clean used a Miata for fun but I don't commute and don't have time to play with a car on weekends right now. Mazda makes good cars and doesn't forget the fun factor. I hope they turn things around because I'm sure we'll buy from them again.

[Jason F.]

The problem with that is not the turbo, but that Mazda did not have an automatic transmission to go WITH the turbo.  That was true with the Miata turbo, and their current Mazdaspeed3.  There aren't enough enthusiasts that know how to drive a manual-only high performance car to sell in large quantities.  You need an auto for the US market or else it's dead in the water for the most part.

Mini sells tons of Turbo Minis because it comes with a 6-speed auto gearbox.  

The mini 6 speed auto is junk. It is a big part of the reason we got rid of ours. Shifting issues that the dealer and two independent euro shops could not diagnose or fix. Numerous other owners complaining about the same issue and the only real solution I ever found mentioned by any of them was just replace it. It also took most of the fun out of the car. It still handled well but it severely affected the feel of throttle response and the way the car pulled out of a corner.

We got the MS3 partly because it had the 6 speed manual. My wife had never drive a stick until she meet me and the Mini was the only car she has owed in 12 years that was an auto. She was itching to get back to a manual and she is far from an enthusiast.

[phoenix]

when I look at the Mazda line-up, I see economy cars, family cars, and minivans.

They are missing the truck market completely, and the truck-based SUV market. Their SUV's look like minivans to me.

[maddjack]

T

Hyundais ar shit-buckets. Dittto with most Kias (the Sorrento seems to be an exception).  They look nice, but they fall apart and leak.  

HUH?   The one we have is as good as the Toyota  I own.maybe 10 years ago your statement was true, not now.

[Highway Star]

Make a coupe based on a turbo Miata chassis.
Make a hatchback based on a Miata chassis.
Make an AWD Speed 3 wagon.
Get a midsize semi-luxury sedan, think Millenia but better.

  Miata hatchback
w/o turbo would be the spiritual successor of the MGB GT.
w turbo would be a poor man's BMW M Coupe

[birdrunner]

Oh I totally forgot about that horrid grin they put on the newer 3's.  That stupid face must go before they have any hope of increasing sales.  It's the only thing worse than the stupid beaks they put on Acuras.

 

Ditto,

I have an 06,  Great, fun to drive car.
The "Grin" just made it look like a chick's car.

[Johnny Monsoon]

Hyundai had double digits gains last year and they've been building up quite a reputation for making good, reliable cars.  You can't do that if you make shit-buckets.  

Sure you can.  Honda did it for years (and still does).  JDPower and associates rates something 'best new' or 'most reliable' for the introductory year and people buy because of that.  Doesn't mean crap if it doesn't last longer than 5 years.  Just about every 5 year old Hyundai looks like absolute crap.  Compare that with a 5 year old Toyota/Mazda.  How many good looking, original engine NA Miatas (pop up headlights) do you still see on the road?  Those things are over 20 years old!

[Johnny Monsoon]

 HUH?   The one we have is as good as the Toyota  I own.maybe 10 years ago your statement was true, not now.

Wait.  You'll eventually agree.  Or just visit the local junk yards.

[Thunderbox]

I like Mazdas.  The make a pretty well sorted car but sales are just not there for them.  One thing is for sure, something needs to be changed.  Doing the same thing and expecting a different result is madness.  I do agree with some who have said the front grill on some of these cars is hidious.  Mazdas and Acuras.

[CosmicCowboy]

when I look at the Mazda line-up, I see economy cars, family cars, and minivans.

They are missing the truck market completely, and the truck-based SUV market. Their SUV's look like minivans to me.

The Tribute is still in their lineup, but looks like they dumped their trucks.

[CosmicCowboy]

Their trucks and SUVs were rebadged Rangers and Escapes. When Ford dropped Rangers, and when they divorced Mazda, Mazda took quite a hit there.

Yeah, that's why I was surprised that Tribute was still there. Did that get a redesign so that it's no longer based off the Escape?