All things considered, the track may be just as dangerous as the street

[Silverbird]

I gave up on track riding after a big crash in '08 and I'm one that feels safer on the street. I mean, technically most ride with about 50% in reserve on the street (or should ) and very little in reserve on the track. That leaves very little room for error and even though you have run-off room, an akward fall at twice the speed is just as bad as a "some" street scenerio crashes.

On the street you have mindless, cell phone talking cagers but on the track you have novice and ameteur riders (and your ubiquitous hotshot) working on their own bikes that can spring a leak at any given moment. Those same riders will ride erratically, scare easily and make stupid decisions that can get you in trouble real quick at triple digit speed.

When I ride on the street I scan for sand and dirt like a hawk, pretend I'm invisible (and don't blame cars when they don't see me, I just wave as to say 'sorry') ride within my limits and be just cocky enough to swerve to avoid someone that pulls out in front of me. To me, I just feel like I'm at less of a risk on the street because track riding is so much more extreme. Go ahead flame away

[Rogue]

I have no imperical data to support any of that.  

I did know two friends that I used to ride with in the street for a few years.  Both of them never crashed during their commute to work and our mountain road riding.  Yet both of them crashed at the track--twice in one year.  The last crash one of them had was enough for him not to be able to ride for six months.

You may have a good point.

[tomek]

Track is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay safer when you ride at 98-100 % , I personally don`t seen any point considering how expensive that is to putz around at 50 % ( at the track ) . Other then riding close to your limit it is apple and orange , not really comparable .

Beginner groups are usually closely monitored and relatively safe , same for advanced riders who generally speaking know what they are doing and bikes are well prepared .

Intermediate can be cluster fuck , if you look at percentages of crashes , this group is overrepresented in your typical track-day .  

Having said that you`ll learn more during one day on the track then in 100 Iron Butt certificate this or that rides .    

[veefer800canuck]

Well they each have different dangers.

Cars and curbs and lampposts on the street, trucks and buses, debris, etc.

BUT, you're usually riding with a BIG performance reserve, and nowhere near your limits.

On the track, everyone is going the same direction, and there aren't any cages or red light runners, but of course, the pace can be near maximum at times, and you are sharing the track with strangers of varying skill levels. Someone lowsides and takes you out, or torpedoes you from behind on the brakes, it's not your fault, but you're still going down, and probably at twice the speed as on the street.

[Blunder]

Go ahead flame away

OK.

I see Birkenstocks, camomile tea and a Volvo or Subaru in your future.

So there.

[ray916mn]

It all depends on how you ride in each situation.

On a track there is no excuse for not trying to ride at the absolute limit of your skills and the capabilities of your bike. Riding at the limit is risky.

On the street even if you ride with ample reserve, the potential for hitting a deer or having a car pull out in front of you or a drunk driver take you out is the risk.

No matter what, riding at the same pace, the track is always safer. If you ride at the limit on the track and with lots of reserve on the street, the track can definitely be riskier per mile traveled than the street.

[DogBoy]

Apple vs. Orange as tomek (kind of) said.

[atadaskew]

OK.

I see Birkenstocks, camomile tea and a Volvo or Subaru in your future.

So there.

You won't get t-boned by a Subaru on the track.
And then have the driver claim you slid sideways into the front of her car..
 

[Mr Sunshine]

I don't care what you say....the box is 2mins away at the track.  On the street...not so much.

[volleykinginnc]

I think you have to look at the totality of the risk.  In other words someone who has been at the track probably rides better on the street.  Thus if you combine the risk of both it is probably less than the sum of one.....

nevermind that made no sense at all.

[garry]

I think the "track is safer" idea is aimed at the people that try to ride a track pace on the street. Take your need for high speed lean angle to the track where sight lines and runoff are way less of an issue. Get your ya-yas out on the track and ride more conservatively on the street.

I treat track days like a high speed street ride. Crashing is not an option, so I ride with plenty in reserve (and probably don't learn as much as a result). Since the track is predictable, I'll ride more aggressively than I would on the street, but I'm nowhere near 100%. It's very rare for me to feel butterflies in the stomach from entering a corner faster than I'm totally comfortable with.  Mostly I work on being smooth and consistent while getting comfortable with a bit more lean angle and/or speed than I would normally see on the street. I find it prevents panicking when I do enter a corner a little too fast on the street. I just look at the exit, stay on the gas, and trust the bike because I've done it at the track before.

[darkstarmoto]

Being a track rider and having friends who are CR's (control riders) I'd like to chime in on the "riding at the limit of your abilities" comments. If you're doing it that way maybe you should consider kicking down a class. The idea is to ride with-in your capabilities and to learn how to grow them. You're out there to learn to be smoother which then translates into faster (generally). The only way to get smoother is to be in complete control and teach yourself how to control your bike better thus allowing more speed to be carried safely.

If you go out on the track and ride like a freaking terror then come into the paddock breathing all heavy and freaked out like you just danced with the devil and won...you're an ass. Those are the guys that end up torpedoing someone or run horrible lines and cause others to have to drastically compensate which throws them out of their comfort zone.

Now as for being safer or more dangerous...IF I want to go well above most posted speed limits in America, I'll do it on the track. A controlled track situation is the ONLY place to do that safely with minimal possibility of outside influences sending you on an ambulance ride.

Riding on the street is as dangerous as you let it be. Risk management plays an important role, the more you manage the safer you are. If you weave in and out of traffic...don't signal...aren't alert to your surroundings, eventually you'll be "that guy" taking a ride to the hospital. Yes there are factors beyond our control in a street environment but if you're using your head, thinking about your escape scenario's and riding with-in your abilities you should have a long enjoyable riding career.

[Liquidsilver]

Street riding, track riding, off-road riding - all have unique risks.   I see lots more wrecked bikes at track days that street rides, so I see the point of the OP.  
 
On enduros, I usually fall at least a half-dozen times, usually with no bad injuries.
 
Riding motorcycles is not a completely safe activity.   I DO think some riders are more prone to crashes than others, too.

[Giaka]

Obviously the track is a safer place for people who cant control themselves on the street. Other than that neither is a "safe' activity.

[black hills]

I would imagine "per mile ridden" the track has less fatalities than the street?

[Kneescrubber]

I do both and feel infinitely safer on the track. I've been to the ER 3 times while riding a bike. None were on the track.

[Tyrroneous]

For a given speed, the track is definitely safer than the street due to clean surface, no on coming traffic, no obstructions, no stray dogs, no stupid deer, etc.

For surviving a crash at a given speed, the track is definitely safer than the street due to obstruction free run-off, no on-coming traffic, etc.

For quick emergency care, the track is safer than the street unless you crash right in front of the ER.  

Even though I ride much closer to my limits on the track, I have always felt safer riding on the track because I can put almost all of my attention into my riding technique instead of having to spread my attention across so many more inputs like traffic or wondering if there is going to be sand in the corner or concern about someone swerving into my lane PLUS my riding technique.

[scottzilla]

Depends on what you mean by "The track".
If you are sport riding on the street and pushing it to the point you no longer feel comfortable pushing even more (Even though you think you can go faster) than a track day is safer than the street.  Sorry, it just is.
Racing?  Bullshit.  That shit is dangerous!!

[Dan K]

I think the "track is safer" idea is aimed at the people that try to ride a track pace on the street. Take your need for high speed lean angle to the track where sight lines and runoff are way less of an issue. Get your ya-yas out on the track and ride more conservatively on the street.

I treat track days like a high speed street ride. Crashing is not an option, so I ride with plenty in reserve (and probably don't learn as much as a result). Since the track is predictable, I'll ride more aggressively than I would on the street, but I'm nowhere near 100%. It's very rare for me to feel butterflies in the stomach from entering a corner faster than I'm totally comfortable with.  Mostly I work on being smooth and consistent while getting comfortable with a bit more lean angle and/or speed than I would normally see on the street. I find it prevents panicking when I do enter a corner a little too fast on the street. I just look at the exit, stay on the gas, and trust the bike because I've done it at the track before.

Well said.  Take it seriously, get better at a safe pace.  I'm in no hurry to be the fastest guy out there.  Just want to enjoy the ride at a speed that requires all of my attention at once, and gets my speed needs met, as I get closer and closer, little by little, to my limits.  

- Dan

[Silverbird]

Well of course the street is safer if you ride on the track as a street pace The point is, people don't. not even beginners.  They are both a calculated risk and if you ride safe and slightly above the speed limit on the street vs as hard as you can go on the track...hour per hour your chances are better to fall off on the track than on the street.   Now what happens after you fall off, you could hit a tree or skin a hole in your leathers, pick your poison.

My point is that riding hard on the track is not a great deal safer riding by yourself and the deer up in the mountains.

[gradus]

Less likely to die during a track day.  

[Kneescrubber]

My point is that riding hard on the track is not a great deal safer than riding by yourself and the deer up in the mountains.

So I take it you had an episode with a deer up in the mountains? I've had multiple encounters in Texas, New Mexico, Colorado.... It will definitely get your heart pumping.  

A great deal safer? I don't ride my motorcycles because they're safe. I ride my motorcycles because they let me escape the very idea of safety. Among other things.

[The Shepherd]

I feel much safer on the track.

From what I've seen, the first session and last sessions see the most crashes. The first session I go out to shake off the cobwebs. The next sessions I try and work on my lines and getting faster. I don't get to the last session and go balls out, that's a recipe for disaster.

Since I'm not racing for points, money or trophies, I don't ride to the very ragged edge. I'd rather go home tired, happy and in one piece.

[sprk_sprd]

I have a way to settle this argument with which all parties may agree:  It's generally safer to crash on a track than it is on the street.    

[coho]

I have a way to settle this argument with which all parties may agree:  It's generally safer to crash on a track than it is on the street.    

Amen.  QFT.

[CMS_Sprint]

I think that track days have "toned down" my street riding a ton. I no longer seek the lean angles and speeds that I used to on the street as I now know that it's stupid to try and do so anywhere but the track. My personal thoughts are that at a track day most of the limitations are your own (speed, aggression level, lean angle) where as on the street there's a whole other area that you can't control (cagers, road conditions, dogs/deer) etc. Given that reality, I leave a ton more in reserve on the street, when there's more out of my control. At least then that I've got some wiggle room when things get "interesting". I don't think I'll ever stop riding on the street as I love the open road touring and exploring, but that being said I don't confuse the street with a race track anymore.

[cruisin]

hmmmm, all I can add is compare the damage to body and bike if you hit or get hit by a car at 70mph compared to lowsiding at 100mph. with one it is almost 100% death and the other; many have walked away from.

[TwoWhldTerror]

Riding on the street is as dangerous as you let it be. Risk management plays an important role, the more you manage the safer you are. If you weave in and out of traffic...don't signal...aren't alert to your surroundings, eventually you'll be "that guy" taking a ride to the hospital. Yes there are factors beyond our control in a street environment but if you're using your head, thinking about your escape scenario's and riding with-in your abilities you should have a long enjoyable riding career.

Well, well spoken. In my circle of riding friends I have lost one to disease, one to a t-bone accident on the street, and two, yes two, at the track.

Just anecdotal experience nothing more, but I do know that *I* have crashed at the track but have not yet done so (nor plan to if I can help it) on the street.

[rgbeard]

I think that track days have "toned down" my street riding a ton. I no longer seek the lean angles and speeds that I used to on the street as I now know that it's stupid to try and do so anywhere but the track. My personal thoughts are that at a track day most of the limitations are your own (speed, aggression level, lean angle) where as on the street there's a whole other area that you can't control (cagers, road conditions, dogs/deer) etc. Given that reality, I leave a ton more in reserve on the street, when there's more out of my control. At least then that I've got some wiggle room when things get "interesting". I don't think I'll ever stop riding on the street as I love the open road touring and exploring, but that being said I don't confuse the street with a race track anymore.

+1  

Track days have toned down my street riding.  I thank my friends that got me to my first trackday, and I appreciate what the sessions do for my riding.

[hovmaven]

i've done both.  the variable at the track is the rider who "has to win track day."  He/she can ruin your world in an instant. . ..  

[Kneescrubber]

i've done both.  the variable at the track is the rider who "has to win track day."  He/she can ruin your world in an instant. . ..  

        No doubt.

The left turning Hyundai driven by a housekeeper who is employed by a lawyer but can't read English because she's from El Salvador while I'm traveling thru the intersection at 45 mph can ruin your day as well. BTDT

Lucky to be alive from that one.  

[hovmaven]

ouch.  stay safe.  

[Kneescrubber]

ouch.  stay safe.  

All good. 8 years ago. Cool scars.    Resulted in the VFR   although I was considering trading the K bike in for an ST4  

[hovmaven]

i traded the vfr for a gsa.  

[scottzilla]

I have a way to settle this argument with which all parties may agree:  It's generally safer to crash on a track than it is on the street.    

Are you more likely to crash on the track?

[Hotbrakes]

The track requires a great deal more constant risk assessment than the street (unless you're in town).  Exercising your risk management skills is the only way to get better, both street and track.  Ride the track like you're on an awesome road and maintain at least a 10% safety margin and the overall inherent risk is much less than being on the street.  

If a particular trackday is becoming a scary experience with heavy traffic, wannabe MotoGP champions, or a pace that is too fast, SAY SOMETHING!  Pull in, pit in for clear track, tell the organizer why you're not having fun.  Enter at your own calculated risk.  A weekend day will likely be packed and have no shortage of "hot shots".  If this isn't your cup of tea, sign up for a weekday event.  A trackday is supposed to be a safe, enjoyable experience where everyone learns.  It takes everyone working together to make that happen.

Racing is the same.  Risk management is key.  If you're starting in the midst of 30 bikes from the middle row, MANAGE THE RISK!  You will not win the race by charging into turn 1.  Be predictable in your actions and aware of what's going on around you.  It may take a lap or two for the madness to settle down so just cruise.  You've got at least 5 more laps to ride at pace, the faster rider will get by.  

I love riding the street.  I love riding the track.  But the track is merely a tool to becoming a safer rider.

[Silverbird]

I call it even... if you are riding fast enough to break traction and using every inch of the racetrack, you are taking a lot of risks, period. Way more than you do on a Sunday stroll.

Now that being said, if you are rider is good enough to do that with a motorcycle on the track, it places them in a far less likely position to crash in the first place. Now compare that to the newbie mid-life crisis dipshits on a brand new cruiser target fixating on everything in site, accounting for the majority of riders that do crash.  Careless squids account for the other half of that majority.  

I say you'll crash more on the track without getting hurt of crash less on the street with the probablity of getting hurt. Pick your poison, but the mentality that you are safer on the track while riding as fast as you can just isn't true IMO.
 

[Liquidsilver]

the track is merely a tool to becoming a safer rider.

 
Definitely not why I go to the track... but I guess it can happen.  

[hovmaven]

Another variable at the track is the unforseen mechanical -- rushing to get out of pit lane, not tightening a bolt, etc. . . resulting in a crash in an unexpected area -- with disastorous results.  Tracks are "safe" when you crash where the designers think you should.  Hitting a wall or tower in a 150 plus mph get off because you forgot to tighten your axle/pinch bolts is pretty much game over.

And my experience is that a lot more folks do stuff on their track bikes on their own more often then do corresponding street riders.

 

[madmanmarz]

I've been riding 3 years with my bikes as primary/only transportation. I lowsided a few times my first couple months due to rain, touching the brakes in the grass after object fixation, etc. 4 months in, I hit the track. I had a big crash on the brakes (pushing hard, overinflated tires, inexperience). Bruised and beaten, somewhat trashed bike but no real injuries. I fixed the bike and I now felt 5 times more confident on the street than before. I then bought a sportbike.

Over the next year or so I did another trackday or two well within my comfort zone - no problems. Purchased a few upgrades geared towards sport-touring. I also had two minor lowsides on the street. One time it was cold out, the other wet and both times I was a little eager on the throttle on a nice safe corner late at night with no traffic.

For the next year and a half, I did a couple more trackdays and started getting quicker. Focused a lot of my little upgrades on track stuff. My street abilities have psychic powers to detect danger zones and have not gone down for a nice while. My first Intermediate trackday was mostly wet. I dragged knee confidently on the dry sessions and mostly rode in my comfort zone. On my second Intermediate trackday (first at a different track), I have a cold/worn tire lowside on the 4th corner of my first session. I was getting on the gas a little too hard a little too early as usual. Bike is fine. Shoulder is hurt but I finish the trackday at a comfortable Intermediate pace. I find I am able to control and predict slides even better here and there.

My point is this - EVERYONE should do at least one novice trackday. Your skills will improve so much, it's ridiculous. The risk you take on the track for one day is nothing compared to the years of street riding you will do without knowing your own/your bike's limits. It will save your ass one day, trust me.

Yes, crashes on the track are more likely, but when you crash, the chances of you getting run over, paralyzed, hit an object, etc are MINIMAL. On the street, any crash at speed could very likely be your LAST. This last trackday had a bunch of lowsides, but every time, riders were conscious and avoided the other riders by a mile.

I think balancing trackdays with street riding is very important. If you don't wanna risk going down at the track, don't push harder than you're comfortable and do them sparingly and you will be just fine.

Remember, trackdays aren't racedays, they're practice days.

[Dan K]

I've been riding 3 years with my bikes as primary/only transportation. I lowsided a few times my first couple months due to rain, touching the brakes in the grass after object fixation, etc. 4 months in, I hit the track. I had a big crash on the brakes (pushing hard, overinflated tires, inexperience). Bruised and beaten, somewhat trashed bike but no real injuries. I fixed the bike and I now felt 5 times more confident on the street than before. I then bought a sportbike.

Over the next year or so I did another trackday or two well within my comfort zone - no problems. Purchased a few upgrades geared towards sport-touring. I also had two minor lowsides on the street. One time it was cold out, the other wet and both times I was a little eager on the throttle on a nice safe corner late at night with no traffic.

For the next year and a half, I did a couple more trackdays and started getting quicker. Focused a lot of my little upgrades on track stuff. My street abilities have psychic powers to detect danger zones and have not gone down for a nice while. My first Intermediate trackday was mostly wet. I dragged knee confidently on the dry sessions and mostly rode in my comfort zone. On my second Intermediate trackday (first at a different track), I have a cold/worn tire lowside on the 4th corner of my first session. I was getting on the gas a little too hard a little too early as usual. Bike is fine. Shoulder is hurt but I finish the trackday at a comfortable Intermediate pace. I find I am able to control and predict slides even better here and there.

My point is this - EVERYONE should do at least one novice trackday. Your skills will improve so much, it's ridiculous. The risk you take on the track for one day is nothing compared to the years of street riding you will do without knowing your own/your bike's limits. It will save your ass one day, trust me.

Yes, crashes on the track are more likely, but when you crash, the chances of you getting run over, paralyzed, hit an object, etc are MINIMAL. On the street, any crash at speed could very likely be your LAST. This last trackday had a bunch of lowsides, but every time, riders were conscious and avoided the other riders by a mile.

I think balancing trackdays with street riding is very important. If you don't wanna risk going down at the track, don't push harder than you're comfortable and do them sparingly and you will be just fine.

Remember, trackdays aren't racedays, they're practice days.

That's, um, a lot of crashes?

[madmanmarz]

That's, um, a lot of crashes?

Yep, I guess it doesn't help my argument  

Street crashes
1 - <1 month - ZR-7s - Didn't make turn in the wet, 10-15mph lowside (lt) in grass after touching brake - no damage
2 - <4 months - ZR-7s - u-turn in gas station, <5mph - no damage/busted signal.
3 - 1 year - F4i - 30mph lowside (rt) on a cold night on a familiar turn - cases took the damage
4 - 1 year - F4i - 10mph lowside (rt) on a wet night pulling out from a mall - cases took the damage

Track
1 - (1st trackday) 4 months - ZR-7s -  Lowside (lt) on brakes around 80mph. Bike slid, I tumbled. Bent bars, dented tank, busted plastics, and some bits and pieces - turned into a naked bike. Bruises.
2 - (5th or 6th trackday) 3 years - F4i - 40mph lowside (rt) session1 lap1, cold and worn rear takeoff. Zero damage. Hurt shoulder but able to finish the day.

That doesn't even count dropping them in the driveway when I didn't have stands and crap like that.

[Kneescrubber]

Yep, I guess it doesn't help my argument  

Street crashes
1 - <1 month - ZR-7s - Didn't make turn in the wet, 10-15mph lowside (lt) in grass after touching brake - no damage
2 - <4 months - ZR-7s - u-turn in gas station, <5mph - no damage/busted signal.
3 - 1 year - F4i - 30mph lowside (rt) on a cold night on a familiar turn - cases took the damage
4 - 1 year - F4i - 10mph lowside (rt) on a wet night pulling out from a mall - cases took the damage

Track
1 - (1st trackday) 4 months - ZR-7s -  Lowside (lt) on brakes around 80mph. Bike slid, I tumbled. Bent bars, dented tank, busted plastics, and some bits and pieces - turned into a naked bike. Bruises.
2 - (5th or 6th trackday) 3 years - F4i - 40mph lowside (rt) session1 lap1, cold and worn rear takeoff. Zero damage. Hurt shoulder but able to finish the day.

That doesn't even count dropping them in the driveway when I didn't have stands and crap like that.

Ya know, falling down in the dirt hurts a lot less and breaks a lot less bike (generally speaking). Maybe you need to develop your basic skills into instincts and then start worrying about going fast. Just a suggestion.  

[Rodan]

Ya know, falling down in the dirt hurts a lot less and breaks a lot less bike (generally speaking). Maybe you need to develop your basic skills into instincts and then start worrying about going fast. Just a suggestion.  

Generally speaking... I managed to break my collarbone falling off a dirtbike at 10mph...

In 25+ years of riding, I've been down twice on the street (target fixation the first time, and a stop sign running left turner the second), both in the first two years of riding.  I was fortunate in both cases not to be injured more seriously than a sprained ankle.

In about 8 years of track riding, I went down 4 times, 3 lowsides on the roadrace track, and once on the dragstrip due to a nasty tankslapper (minimal suspension travel, and feet not yet on the pegs).

My experience tells me I would MUCH rather crash on the track.  It's simply a far safer place to fall down.

Are you more likely to crash on the track?  Depends... if you're pushing the limits, trying to find the last few tenths out of a lap time, you're going down sooner or later.   If you ride with a reasonable margin, just having a good time, you'll probably never fall down.

What I do know is that riding the track (with some instruction!) is one of the best things a rider can do.  The skills you will develop (if you try) will ABSOLUTELY make you a safer rider on the street.

[madmanmarz]

Ya know, falling down in the dirt hurts a lot less and breaks a lot less bike (generally speaking). Maybe you need to develop your basic skills into instincts and then start worrying about going fast. Just a suggestion.  

Thanks but no thanks. Although I would love to also have a dirtbike to crash in, I'd rather crash and learn than be that guy who goes around saying he hasn't ever crashed in 20 years blah blah blah. Call me crazy but I don't mind pushing my boundaries a bit here and there when the conditions are right. I doubt I will ever crash again on the street unless something wacko happens, and especially since track riding has tamed my street riding considerably.

Thank you Rodan for understanding.

[Silverbird]

Good luck with that...

[BentAero]

Yep, I guess it doesn't help my argument  

Street crashes
1 - <1 month - ZR-7s - Didn't make turn in the wet, 10-15mph lowside (lt) in grass after touching brake - no damage
2 - <4 months - ZR-7s - u-turn in gas station, <5mph - no damage/busted signal.
3 - 1 year - F4i - 30mph lowside (rt) on a cold night on a familiar turn - cases took the damage
4 - 1 year - F4i - 10mph lowside (rt) on a wet night pulling out from a mall - cases took the damage

Track
1 - (1st trackday) 4 months - ZR-7s -  Lowside (lt) on brakes around 80mph. Bike slid, I tumbled. Bent bars, dented tank, busted plastics, and some bits and pieces - turned into a naked bike. Bruises.
2 - (5th or 6th trackday) 3 years - F4i - 40mph lowside (rt) session1 lap1, cold and worn rear takeoff. Zero damage. Hurt shoulder but able to finish the day.

That doesn't even count dropping them in the driveway when I didn't have stands and crap like that.

Maybe you should take up skydiving?  ...or at least stay in the Novice group a few more years?

[DogBoy]

Thanks but no thanks. Although I would love to also have a dirtbike to crash in, I'd rather crash and learn than be that guy who goes around saying he hasn't ever crashed in 20 years blah blah blah. Call me crazy but I don't mind pushing my boundaries a bit here and there when the conditions are right. I doubt I will ever crash again on the street unless something wacko happens, and especially since track riding has tamed my street riding considerably.

Thank you Rodan for understanding.

Don't discount how much you could learn from dirt riding. It will make you a better rider on the street or track and dirt is as much (OK, more) fun.

[Dan K]

Don't discount how much you could learn from dirt riding. It will make you a better rider on the street or track and dirt is as much (OK, more) fun.

I took a one day dirt bike school outside Fresno at Rich Oliver's Mystery School (look it up - he's awesome, amazing day). Dirt is great, and just as dangerous.

I broke my leg (plateau fracture of my tibia - found out a few days later after the trip )either right off the bat (wiped out when I didn't pivot my inside leg fast enough when doing donuts) or at the very end towards the end (low side with an over aggressive lap on the Flat Track).

Still rode on the street on a rented Ducati Streetfighter S for the next 2 days outside San Fran, and it was some of the best riding I've ever done (less the swollen knee).

Will continue to ride the track whenever possible, even though I'm slow, and will hop on a dirt bike whenever offered the chance.

Does the level of danger really matter at this point?  We all know if you go down on the road, you're more likely to get hurt.  We all know you're more likely to go down on the track or whenever you are riding 9/10ths, and that the danger is MUCH higher when riding 9/10ths on the street, including because the paramedics are already on hand at the track (for a reason, mind you).

What are we discussing here?

-Dan

[Windblown]

+1 on the apples to oranges comments.  The comparison between track & street is only valid if the risks being taken are comparable and when they are -  the track is a much safer place.

[R Doug]

i've done both.  the variable at the track is the rider who "has to win track day."  He/she can ruin your world in an instant. . ..  

Huge + 1

A Ricky Racer took me out at VIR. I had a near ton get off and walked away.

I couldn't imagine having a 100 mph get off on the street.

[staedtler]

An ex racer friend of mine went to Colin Edwards winter camp... They mostly ride dirtbikes and shoot guns... Well, he wiped out sliding on a Lil 250 on a dirt track...he severed his right wrist, it's hand stayed put cause of the muscle and skin.. He's still on a cast, he might not be able to race or do trackdays again... He coudnt be doing more than 30 or 40 tops.
Unbelivable! There's no telling... The guy had crashed and gone to the er a bunch of times before... When its your time, its your time.

[Silverbird]

Huge + 1

A Ricky Racer took me out at VIR. I had a near ton get off and walked away.

I couldn't imagine having a 100 mph get off on the street.

YOU WOULDN'T! That's my whole point Anyone riding that fast with any kind of serious lean angle deserves to crash and get hurt IMO