What were the worst business moves in motorcycling?

[atadaskew]

Off hand I can think of two:

1/ KTM saying no to Ewan and his hanger-on

2/ Harley not letting Buell build bikes the way he wanted.

ok I can think of lots more, but let other people get a chance!
 

[bomber]

The British industry going out for tea, and not paying attention for 15 years?

[bubba zanetti]

AMF thinking there was some business
symmetry between making bowling balls and building Harley Davidson's.


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[Orson]

Triumph USA telling Kenny Roberts that he wuz too small to ride one of their bikes?

[bubba zanetti]

Shah not marketing his L.E.D. jacket.


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[Blunder]

Yamaha flooding the US market in the early '80s in an attempt to overtake Honda as the #1 MC importer. Of course, that meant there were some screamin' deals in '85 for leftover '82 models, but still....

[C 4]

Harley-Davidson shutting down the R&D dept in 1940 citing "There will never be greater technology than this!"

[stew71]

The DN-01.

Harley buying then selling MV Augusta..?

[atadaskew]

Ducati not developing the v4 back in the '60s?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Apollo

[falcofred]

Personally, my biggest mistake was not buy Harley Davidson stock back when it went public.

[Rogue]

2/ Harley not letting Buell build bikes the way he wanted.

+1

Also, shutting them down in 2010 when they were profitable but their new CEO thought they didn't fit into their "core business".  Their core business being selling merchandise related to motorcycles.  

[Orson]

some say that Soichiro's openin' a can o' RS750 whoop-ass on Harley's flat track hegemony, wuz a result of Harley's petitioining the government for relief by imposing a 700cc tafiff on Japanese manufacturers.

[sammyseaman]

The British industry going out for tea, and not paying attention for 15 years?

This ^^^^^^

[Dan K]

Ducati not developing the v4 back in the '60s?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Apollo

The Desmosedici RR is a V4....and available to the public, if at a ridiculous price...?

[Orson]

Suzuki rejecting Lucian Tilkens' monoshock suspension idea, telling him that two shocks were twice as good.

[DogBoy]

Ducati hiring Rossi.  

MotoGuzzi refusing to enter WSBK.

[atadaskew]

The Desmosedici RR is a V4....and available to the public, if at a ridiculous price...?

50 years later, and only as a one-off...

[Dan K]

But if you have a friend that owns one,  

But honestly, I like riding his 1098R more than the Desmo.  The Desmo isn't happy unless it's flying and leaning over beyond 45deg.  And HOT if not rolling...

- Dan

[Orson]

In 1971, Maico all but had the 500cc motocross world championship in the bag, with Ake Jonsson leading Roger DeCoster going into the final round.

Maico decided that they wanted to reduce the bike's weight, so they made a cylinder head made out of magnesium and aluminum rather than the pure aluminum they had been using. They figured that a little magnesium was good, so a lotta magnesium must be better, failing to realize that magnesium expands more than aluminum. Jonsson was leading the first moto when, sure 'nuff, the cylinder head expanded causing the spark plug to be expelled  

DeCoster cruised by for the victory and the world championship  

[D-Mac]

The British motorcycle failing to respond effectively to the Japanese I-4s in the early 70s. Why would anyone want a powerful bike that doesn't leak oil and has a reliable electrical system/engine, anyway?

AMF failing to understand the motorcycle market (golf carts aren't the same thing as cruisers). It's a minor miracle that HD survived the early 80s, and the overwhelming success they eventually achieved only serves to show how badly AMF screwed up things.

BMW failing to respond to final drive complaints from customers (yes, they are selling well but they're lost a lot of loyalty among their core customers).

Kawasaki and Suzuki failing to compete effectively with the Goldwing (which represents a ton of Honda profit in North America).

In North America (with the exception of the Goldwing and off-road bikes), I'd say Honda ignoring customers for the past decade has cost them market share in some areas. I doubt they care much though because they're too busy dominating the scooter market in the rest of the world.

Harley failing to support Buell (in manufacturing, selling, and supporting dealers). The MV fiasco only underscores their inability to manage other market segments.

[UFO]

In before tired FJR posts.

[Justin]

The DN-01.

Only because 5 people bought the Rune.

[atadaskew]

Only because 5 people bought the Rune.

Yeah, the Rune...
Another example of Honda's late 90's to present day arrogance.
Build a 'custom' based on the Wing and call it a hot rod.  Claim it makes more power than the Wing cuz it's a hot rod.  Didn't think that magazines would dyno it, to find out it made LESS power than the Wing.  But weighed as much.
Butt hay, it's a hot rod!

Thankfully on 5 people fell for that line.

[BashamR6S]

H.D 100 plus years of a bad reputation.....

Bash

[Uncle Leo]

Every person who ever tried to resurrect Indian.

[Brad1445]

Buell realeasing a half baked joke of a bike the 1125r

They wen from Ducati cool to Studabaker fugly, leaky, sparky, nightmare.

[SLK50]

Every person who ever tried to resurrect Indian.

  Beat me to it. I would add Excelsior-Henderson
and maybe Norton. Let the dead RIP.

[SLK50]

Buell realeasing a half baked joke of a bike the 1125r

They wen from Ducati cool to Studabaker fugly, leaky, sparky, nightmare.

  I think brilliant designers are a lot like songwriters:
they have one or two big hits then spend the rest
of their careers trying to recapture that magic.

  I honestly hope Eric "resets" and gets back on
track with more innovative designs.

[Playinthestreet]

Off hand I can think of two:


2/ Harley not letting Buell build bikes the way he wanted.

ok I can think of lots more, but let other people get a chance!
 

Harley bailing out Buell for 30 years.

[Fourstring]

Suzuki for not importing any bikes for 2010.  

Made perfect sense on paper and allowed them to sell overhanging inventory, but left them flatfooted by big K and the Euro brands for the following years.

[Kneescrubber]

Honda with the 23" front wheel on the '79 XR/XL. Bigger is better, right?


The Italian tractor brand still can't get beyond pushrod technology. At least the German's have semi-given that design up.

[jhawk]

Steam power

[sprk_sprd]

Not sure if this counts, but all the Biker Boyz and Torque movies.  The squid populations exploded nationwide.

[sagerat]

BMW scooters.  

[cbsnbiker]

HOVMaven buying Poof's old thumper then attempting to ride it cross-country.

Lawn Dart buying The Bitch, a/k/a Christine.

Someone else buying The Bitch from Lawn Dart.

 

[DogBoy]

Any company that uses ST.N for market research.

[bassjones]

Not sure if this counts, but all the Biker Boyz and Torque movies.  The squid populations exploded nationwide.

Bad for motorcycling, but good for business for the Japanese sportbikes...

[KodiakRS]

The recent rise in price of most Japanese bikes.  It was their biggest advantage over the Europeans and now it's gone.

[Papa Lazarou]

Aside from the disaster that was BSA/ Triumph in the 1970's...

The serious decline in quality in Japanese bikes. Metallic paint now seems to mean you can see the metal through the lacquer. Building their bikes in India and China. Good grief.

[McRider]

The attempt to sell the new Henderson motorcycle, and the umpteeth version of Indian.  

[birdrunner]

The British industry   Honda engineers going out for tea saki, and not paying attention for 15 years?

[atadaskew]

I think Polaris buying Indian is a good one.

Indian is going to be marketed above the Victory lineup.  Which already tops out at $22K.

I just don't think there is a market for a cruiser bike that most people (let's be honest here) have not heard of, at that price level.

[jsanford]

Indian closing in the fifties.

BMW discontinuing the F650, reusing the name immediately on a twin, then re-introducing it the following year with a "G" name.

Aprilia discontinuing the cat logos on their street bikes.

Kawasaki off shoring the production of the 250R.

Ducati making the Monster metro.

[Need For Speed]

I don't know if is one of the worst moves, but Honda stopping development and production of the Blackbird was a bad move IMHO. It was ahead of it's time originally and I could only imagine what it might have evolved into now  

There hasn't been anything to take it's place (VFR1200 doesn't count) or to compete with the Busa and zx14.

I think I will continue to ride my 13 year old bike, seeing how there isn't anything that I'd rather have as a sport touring machine atm.

[malbojah]

Honda: for getting the VFR right for 20 years and then royally screwing the pooch with the VFR1200

And for UFO (and county): the FJR weighing a short ton

[scott19]

A Triumph engine made in Thailand? No thanks.

(Same goes for Dr. Martens made in China)

[Kraz]

Motus not releasing a price...

[JSharp]

The British industry going out for tea, and not paying attention for 15 years?

The Japanese will never be able to build large motorcycles. /1968

[DredheadV2.0]

Ducati hiring Rossi.  

oh no you didn't

[Bravo12]

Suzuki put out the B-King (I heard "Burger King" at least a dozen times at the IMS show that year) with none of the slick hi-tech gadgetry they had on the prototype. The demo unit had no gauges, but rather a bluetooth transmitter that put the gauge display inside the included helmet. Obviously not yet ready for consumers (nor the DOT), the regular gauges on the production model took away from the concept bike's slick spartan look. They also made the bike just too damned big and heavy. We wanted a Bandit with a 'Busa motor. Instead, we got a naked 'Busa, with all the thirst, weight and even more width. Nobody asked for that.

Another really bad move recently is the VFR1200F. I could almost swallow a $17.5k price tag for Honda's sport-touring techno flagship. But, no bags? Really? For that price, on a billed SPORT-TOURER, no bags? There's unsightly holes in the tail for bags, but NO BAGS? OK, so I say I don't want the electronic dual-clutch because I'm not that lazy and I like to shift. The option of the slipper-clutch is pretty nice, but... I can't get ABS without the electronic clutch?! A $15k SPORT-TOURER, with NO ABS and NO BAGS?! And no test rides! Kiss my ass, Honda. You deserve to eat every one of those bikes that's still collecting dust in the showrooms.

[atadaskew]

I think a major problem with Honda is the refusal to put decent suspension on anything apart from their CBR sport bikes.
The stuff on the Goldwing (up to $28K!) sucks, and the VFR12's has very limited adjustability.

All the while their competition has already gone to electronically full adjust multi-mode suspensions.

[Rattlehead]

I'm going to have to go with Harley's absolute refusal to branch outside of the "baby Boomer" demographic and their love for overweight slow as mud cruisers.  
 Buell was poised to be the perfect brand to sell various other styles of bikes without "diluting" the Harley image; sorta like Scion is to Toyota. They were coming into their own and really getting rolling with the 1125 (even though it was a styling nightmare and still had a few bugs to work out). Another 5-10 years and Buell could have been something huge.
Imagine a Buell line with a couple air cooled XB style bikes, maybe an 1125 with a styling makeover to battle the Ducati streetfighter, an 1190 superbike, maybe a downsized 1190 to battle with the Ducati 848. There were so many possibilities there that will NEVER exist under the HD logo (they burned all of their bridges creating the "Harley Image").

I've owned 2 Buells (an XB9S and a XB12R) and they were both great bikes that I loved EVERYTHING about (great ergos,strong brakes, excellent chassis and suspension) but the the engine and I didn't gel. A couple more years to work out the kinks (and smooth out the styling) of the 1125 and I would have been all over that. I've seen a few 1125's with the Buell offered full fairing kit and they look fantastic! Sort out the crappy stators and something like that would have been on my "drool list" for sure.

The possibilities were there for so many great bikes to emerge but it was all ruined by HD's short sightedness and not to mention their arrogance.   In one fell swoop they took Americas only real chance to mass produce some great sporty (and useful) bikes and crushed it beneath the weight of their unrestrained ego and their overly prioritized shareholders.   HD will not find me darkening their doorways for some time to come for this move alone.

Maybe Polaris can buy up Buell and pick up where Harley failed. Maybe they can provide the financial backing for Erik to produce some affordable streetbikes. I can dream can't I?  

[Silverbird]

Honda investing a bagillion dollars to develop the new VFR as the dealers can't even give them away

[sammyseaman]

Honda investing a bagillion dollars to develop the new VFR as the dealers can't even give them away

Fuck Honda! They lost me many, many years ago. When their lemmings finally come to their senses they will be in deep shit. Fuckin egomaniacs

[Silverbird]

I agree, any company that puts their own interests ahead of their customers is going not going to make them very successful.  I have posted before we should just start referring to Honda around here as - -   

[Gary B.]

I'm going to have to go with Harley's absolute refusal to branch outside of the "baby Boomer" demographic and their love for overweight slow as mud cruisers.  
 Buell was poised to be the perfect brand to sell various other styles of bikes without "diluting" the Harley image; sorta like Scion is to Toyota. They were coming into their own and really getting rolling with the 1125 (even though it was a styling nightmare and still had a few bugs to work out). Another 5-10 years and Buell could have been something huge.
Imagine a Buell line with a couple air cooled XB style bikes, maybe an 1125 with a styling makeover to battle the Ducati streetfighter, an 1190 superbike, maybe a downsized 1190 to battle with the Ducati 848. There were so many possibilities there that will NEVER exist under the HD logo (they burned all of their bridges creating the "Harley Image").

I've owned 2 Buells (an XB9S and a XB12R) and they were both great bikes that I loved EVERYTHING about (great ergos,strong brakes, excellent chassis and suspension) but the the engine and I didn't gel. A couple more years to work out the kinks (and smooth out the styling) of the 1125 and I would have been all over that. I've seen a few 1125's with the Buell offered full fairing kit and they look fantastic! Sort out the crappy stators and something like that would have been on my "drool list" for sure.

The possibilities were there for so many great bikes to emerge but it was all ruined by HD's short sightedness and not to mention their arrogance.   In one fell swoop they took Americas only real chance to mass produce some great sporty (and useful) bikes and crushed it beneath the weight of their unrestrained ego and their overly prioritized shareholders.   HD will not find me darkening their doorways for some time to come for this move alone.

Maybe Polaris can buy up Buell and pick up where Harley failed. Maybe they can provide the financial backing for Erik to produce some affordable streetbikes. I can dream can't I?  

Well put.

 

[NoDak]

Harley-Davidson shutting down the R&D dept in 1940 citing "There will never be greater technology than this!"

 

[cbsnbiker]

Maybe Polaris can buy up Buell and pick up where Harley failed. Maybe they can provide the financial backing for Erik to produce some affordable streetbikes. I can dream can't I?  

Years ago I talked to a Polaris person about them coming out with bikes other than cruisers. The response was not encouraging.  

[slvrsprint]

The results are yet to be seen, but I'm afraid it will be Triumph hiring a Harley guy to run the show in the US.

[Meemuh]

Hopefully the new head of Triumph US is leaving HD to do more, not less.

[Playinthestreet]

I'm going to have to go with Harley's absolute refusal to branch outside of the "baby Boomer" demographic and their love for overweight slow as mud cruisers.  
 Buell was poised to be the perfect brand to sell various other styles of bikes without "diluting" the Harley image; sorta like Scion is to Toyota. They were coming into their own and really getting rolling with the 1125 (even though it was a styling nightmare and still had a few bugs to work out). Another 5-10 years and Buell could have been something huge.
Imagine a Buell line with a couple air cooled XB style bikes, maybe an 1125 with a styling makeover to battle the Ducati streetfighter, an 1190 superbike, maybe a downsized 1190 to battle with the Ducati 848. There were so many possibilities there that will NEVER exist under the HD logo (they burned all of their bridges creating the "Harley Image").

I've owned 2 Buells (an XB9S and a XB12R) and they were both great bikes that I loved EVERYTHING about (great ergos,strong brakes, excellent chassis and suspension) but the the engine and I didn't gel. A couple more years to work out the kinks (and smooth out the styling) of the 1125 and I would have been all over that. I've seen a few 1125's with the Buell offered full fairing kit and they look fantastic! Sort out the crappy stators and something like that would have been on my "drool list" for sure.

The possibilities were there for so many great bikes to emerge but it was all ruined by HD's short sightedness and not to mention their arrogance.   In one fell swoop they took Americas only real chance to mass produce some great sporty (and useful) bikes and crushed it beneath the weight of their unrestrained ego and their overly prioritized shareholders.   HD will not find me darkening their doorways for some time to come for this move alone.

Maybe Polaris can buy up Buell and pick up where Harley failed. Maybe they can provide the financial backing for Erik to produce some affordable streetbikes. I can dream can't I?  

I gotta hand it to you Buell guys.  Try as I might, every time I went to buy a Buell they were sold out. I wish I'd have known where you all got yours.  And that in spite of the fact that every Buell ever made was recalled.  Why don't you Buell zealots put up the money for Eric to  to back into the street bike business.  IPOs are kind of big this year.  You should have bought H-D when it went public.

[Brad1445]

Harley bailing out Buell for 30 years.

+1, Buell could have left anytime.  He is Blaming Harley for his mistakes.  I bought 5 Buells, but would not ever buy another if Erik is involved. He should pay for his crimes against humanity.

[atadaskew]

I'm going to have to go with Harley's absolute refusal to branch outside of the "baby Boomer" demographic and their love for overweight slow as mud cruisers.  

How is this a bad business move?

Harley is in the market to sell bikes, and the fact of the matter is they do.
Their sales are up yet again, while Japanese mfgs' sales are languishing.

So no matter that you may not like their bikes, others obviously do.  
Seeing that non Euro sport bikes sales are in the gutter, why on earth should Harley build something non Harley?  The Japanese sport bike market is seriously hurting, so why on earth should Harley enter that field?

If they did, you wouldn't buy it anyway.  You'd just use it as an excuse to say - hey look , an equivalent GSXR is faster etc

For better or worse, people buy Harleys because they are Harleys.  Stylish American cruisers.  And yet again that tried and true formula is a success.

[Orson]

I think the Countyisti need to worry less about what the bikes weigh.

and miss out on some of the hysterical responses?

whut....is it yer mission in life to shut down internet entertainment?  

 

[stew71]

and miss out on some of the hysterical responses?

whut....is it yer mission in life to shut down internet entertainment?  

 

I think ST.N would dry up and blow away if it weren't for County's FJR rants.  

It's bad enough we lost Shah and Raj. I thoroughly enjoyed those two dorks.

[stk0308]

BMW scooters.  

Your going to feel a sense of Dejavu soon.  

[stk0308]

BMW doing marketing surveys in southern California to set their color pallets in the the mid 80's to mid 90's.  Teal on black?!?!  Really?  Ugh!

The Ducati Indiana

[bomber]

You don't have to like Harley's market offerings, but it's flat out idiotic to think they need to change.

Actually, HD changes constantly (as you point out often) -- they've updated their, well, everything -- just because the styling is a throwback (just as their custoemr base wants) doesn't mean it hasn't got ABS, fuel injection, decent breaks, much improved handling, and fit and finish to rival anyone in the industry.

Just sayin

[Dan K]

I can attest to the improved brakes...ever ridden in St. Armand's circle in Sarasota?  Finally cleared traffic and squirted some go juice into the engine and some lady in a jaguar thought it was a good idea to pull into oncoming traffic and stop!  May or may not have kicked in the ABS - didn't feel the pulse, but did watch that road disappear pretty damn quick before she moved enough out of the way to allow a swerve without hitting the cars behind her...

Stopped really well compared compared to older Harley's I've ridden and the older Honda cruiser's I've owned (ahem...rear drum on the '86 Shadow...)

- Dan

[hugerider]

Uh... No. They've been absolutely genius in sticking with building what people buy.

Ok, let's think about something here. HD's numbers were fully 25% of ALL motorcycles (including scooters, dirt bikes and ATVs) last year. Fully 25%. Of the cruiser market, they are something like 55%, beating all others combined. They beat all comers in the US market space for cruisers.

Why on God's green earth should they EVER stop doing what 1) they do best, 2) they do better than others, and 3) what pays their bills, time and time again, year in and year out. They're in the Black for 2011. What other bike company can say that with such success? And they're arguably the only pure motorcycle company having viable, sustainable, and repeating sales in the US. Ducati is on that page, too, but they're also an electronics manufacturing company (though, admittedly, they may have shrunk that to just supporting the bike's electronics by now).

Harley's doing just fine, doing their own thing and - and this key - returning a profit for their shareholders. They're king of their particular hill. The only viable competitor to their throne - in terms of quality bikes with all the right stuff in place - is Victory. Maybe Star. But neither of them is making a dent in Harley's sales. Star makes an absolutely fantastic bike, but their sales numbers are a pimple on Harley's collective butt at this point.

You don't have to like Harley's market offerings, but it's flat out idiotic to think they need to change.

And specifically to your point, Harley HAS tried to get out of their box any number of times over the years. The buyers - the people paying hard-earned cash for the machines year after year - don't want anything but what Harley does best.

The free market has spoken. It's funny how everyone wants to redefine Harley, like Harley needs it or something. And yet...

I try not to be a "+1" poster, but +1.

+1 indeed.

[Rattlehead]

Uh... No. They've been absolutely genius in sticking with building what people buy.

Ok, let's think about something here. HD's numbers were fully 25% of ALL motorcycles (including scooters, dirt bikes and ATVs) last year. Fully 25%. Of the cruiser market, they are something like 55%, beating all others combined. They beat all comers in the US market space for cruisers.

Why on God's green earth should they EVER stop doing what 1) they do best, 2) they do better than others, and 3) what pays their bills, time and time again, year in and year out. They're in the Black for 2011. What other bike company can say that with such success? And they're arguably the only pure motorcycle company having viable, sustainable, and repeating sales in the US. Ducati is on that page, too, but they're also an electronics manufacturing company (though, admittedly, they may have shrunk that to just supporting the bike's electronics by now).

Harley's doing just fine, doing their own thing and - and this key - returning a profit for their shareholders. They're king of their particular hill. The only viable competitor to their throne - in terms of quality bikes with all the right stuff in place - is Victory. Maybe Star. But neither of them is making a dent in Harley's sales. Star makes an absolutely fantastic bike, but their sales numbers are a pimple on Harley's collective butt at this point.

You don't have to like Harley's market offerings, but it's flat out idiotic to think they need to change.

And specifically to your point, Harley HAS tried to get out of their box any number of times over the years. The buyers - the people paying hard-earned cash for the machines year after year - don't want anything but what Harley does best.

The free market has spoken. It's funny how everyone wants to redefine Harley, like Harley needs it or something. And yet...

Never said they should stop what their doing, merely that they should expand a bit.
Ford makes a killing selling F150's. Does that mean they shouldn't be making Mustangs and Focus (foci?), Taurus's, ect ect ect.?
They had an opportunity to expand their offering to catch a market outside of their "core audience" without diluting their traditional offerings but they lacked the dedication and vision to develop it into what it could have been. Their perfectly content being the king of their one hill while others fight over the other hills.

[bomber]

As others have said, it's easy to Monday Morning Quarterback HD . . . ..  keep in mind, though, that every time, each and every time they've wandered afield from their core, they loose money, sometimes a great deal of money.

Like their products, or don't, but they sell all they can make.

[Rattlehead]

As others have said, it's easy to Monday Morning Quarterback HD . . . ..  keep in mind, though, that every time, each and every time they've wandered afield from their core, they loose money, sometimes a great deal of money.

Like their products, or don't, but they sell all they can make.

Very true.
I think the problem is that they've painted themselves into a corner (a very profitable corner but a corner none-the-less) so much so that NOTHING other than classic cruisers can be sold under the HD name. I think a separate brand is the only way their going sell std's or adv bikes or sporty bikes or whatever because nobody looking for a Harley is interested in anything other than a cruiser.
You're right though, it's all "arm-chair QB-ing" though so take it for what it's worth.

I would just love to see an American brand offer something to people that don't want a large cruiser.

[tvpierce]

Harley-Davidson shutting down the R&D dept in 1940 citing "There will never be greater technology than this!"

I'd say that's worked out pretty well for them from a business perspective.  They've hardly spent a dime on R & D in the last 50 years... yet they still sell more bikes in the USA than any other manufacturer.  

[motociclista]

2/ Harley not letting Buell build bikes the way he wanted.

I think the bigger mistake was Erik Buell signing the agreement with Harley-Davidson that handed over his soul, his name, all future commercial rights to his manhood and self-respect... OK, maybe I'm exaggerating there, but the agreement was so bad his lawyer made Buell sign a paper saying he was agreeing to Harley's terms despite his legal advice.

As others have pointed out, Harley's doing well these days. Erik Buell, well, he's building a few race bikes.

[C 4]

I'd say that's worked out pretty well for them from a business perspective.  They've hardly spent a dime on R & D in the last 50 years... yet they still sell more bikes in the USA than any other manufacturer.  

There is definitely something in the Koolaid. I have never wanted to try it myself but I'm not making the payments. "Whatever" I say, ride what you want. They sure know how to up sell, make money on an inferior product. Gypsy is the term isn't it?

[atadaskew]

 "Whatever" I say, ride what you want. They sure know how to up sell, make money on an inferior product. Gypsy is the term isn't it?

Inferior?  My Dyna was great, best FI on any bike I've owned, smoothest belt drive.  Fantastic finish. Totally reliable for the time I had it.

It's cute when people say ride what you want, then bag on other people's rides..
 

[Orson]

"ride whut you want" is actually subliminal text for "buy a Guzzi"

just like those split second images of popcorn flashed before yer eyes at the movie theaters.

[keepergale]

It's cute when people say ride what you want, then bag on other people's rides..
 

  This is ST.Net  That is a way of life around here.

[Snowbird]

Harley buying then selling MV Augusta..?

Not so bad... the first time. But twice!!??  

 

Aprilia discontinuing the cat logos on their street bikes.

What? Say it isn't so. Makes my favorite hat a collectors' item.  

Coolest logo ever. I get favorable comments all the time.

Buell realeasing a half baked joke of a bike the 1125r

Been wanting to use this emoticon:

 

Thanks Brad.  

[ceilingcat]

Aprilia for making a MotoGP bike

Colin Edwards for Riding the Aprilia MotoGP bike

Nicky Hayden for leaving Honda

Honda replacing Nicky Hayden with Dani Pedrosa - an absolute, complete and total asshole that none of the MotoGP riders will ever say anything good about - Rossi stated "Max (Biaggi) was easier to get along with than Dani"

Kawasaki for creating a MotoGP bike with little or no R/D put into the bike before it was dropped on the track - but they did dump truck loads of cash on the project - so much so that KHI pulled the plug as the MotoGP budget was surpassing the cost of R/D for a next generation PBR nuclear reactor Kawasaki Heavy Industries had contracted with the South Korean government to build.

Mark Miller of Miller Motorsports for failing to land MotoGP in Salt Lake City (but he did get WSB which is awesome)

AMA pro racing for continuing host or have a Daytona 200 in Daytona.

AMA pro racing for continuing to exist

AMA pro racing for completely fucking up everything surrounding pro bike racing in the United States

AMA pro racing for failing to enforce safety upgrades and improve track standards at ANY track in the United States (Laguna Seca only did this - and half assed at first - because they wanted MotoGP).

Connie Nyholm for losing a gazillion dollars in incredibly bad business deals then sucking the life out of VIR (raised track rental price 600% in 2010 making the 150-250 dollar track day 450-500; vendor charges went sky high too) in a failed attempt to make that money back.  

Kawasaki for failing to install / design an electronic cruise control on the C-14 (they have it on their cruiser for god’s sake)

Yamaha for not updating the FJR....ever

Piaggio group for buying Moto Guzzi

Harley Davidson for leveraging a retarded service contract with police departments making the HD police bikes far more expensive to operate and maintain than a comparable Kawasaki C-14, BMW or Honda ST1300 – which has chased many, many departments away from the HD Police cruiser.

[C 4]

frenchy,  you're right. I have been one to jump on the HD bashing wagon a time or two, and it may be short sided of me I admit. I have never owned one  but have ridden them a couple of times. I didn't like it. I could never get comfortable on the ones I rode. A Fatboy and an Ultra Classic by the way. As far as the deriding them as crap bikes, I never said they were crap, just inferior, In my opinion.  I'm sure someone on a new bike would consider my 96 inferior. And it is compared to current innovations and technology. HD's inferiority as in overhead cams, hydraulic cam chain adjusters, engines designed with fuel injection in mind not just added after the fact, etc. My biggest complaint is probably the occasion of dealing with the hardcore, close minded HD enthusiasts that have never ridden anything else and bash my rice burner Jap P.O.S. So that mentality has rubbed off on me over the years so I do it in return. In all seriousness, I will try not to in the future, I need to practice what I preach and say "Whatever, ride what you want. Lets just ride"  I am all for the American made part of it and am actually looking at the Victory, which the aforementioned HD afficionado also bash even though made in America.  And now back to your regularly scheduled programming!

[X1Glider]

No one mentioned CRTs in MotoGP?

[ceilingcat]

Why...?  

Guzzi has access to R&D and cash that they never did before. Piaggio has another unique line that stands on its own under their umbrella. Really not sure I understand why it's so bad.

I believe I mixed the MG purchase up with the Aprilia group's finance / cash / credit mess.  Moto Guzzi was sold off of Aprilia when the Aprilia group ran into a cash black hole.  You are correct that Piaggio got a serious deal for (1) New factory / facilities (2) Zero back debt

Aprilia's mistake was paying WAY too much for Moto Guzzi then revamping the entire production line and incurring a ton of debt.  If I recall correctly, Ducati was seriously interested in purchasing Moto Guzzi but backed out when the price got too high.

I stand corrected - Piaggio made out from the purchase of Moto Guzzi : Aprilia managed to stay above water - but only just.

[Doug Just Doug]

Worst move was my dad turning down the chance to invest in the first Honda dealership around here because nobody would buy those tiny under-powered Jap things. I guess it was also so much more fun extracting a Triumph or BSA out of a mud-hole during an enduro.  

[stk0308]

No one mentioned CRTs in MotoGP?

I'd rather we wait a few years before deciding how "bad" that decision really is.  Remember, spec tires in MotoGP and WSB was going to be the death of them.  Well, not so much is would appear.

[DredheadV2.0]

Aprilia for making a MotoGP bike

Colin Edwards for Riding the Aprilia MotoGP bike

Nicky Hayden for leaving Honda

Honda replacing Nicky Hayden with Dani Pedrosa - an absolute, complete and total asshole that none of the MotoGP riders will ever say anything good about - Rossi stated "Max (Biaggi) was easier to get along with than Dani"

Erm... Nicky and Dani were team-mates.  Pretty sure they replaced Nicky with Dovi, in 2009 when Nicky went to Ducati.

I don't know if Nicky had much choice but to leave Honda at that point; sure it'd be great to see him on their current literbike, but he and Repsol didn't seem like they ever got along well.

Great business decision for Ducati, though.  

[ceilingcat]

Erm... Nicky and Dani were team-mates.  Pretty sure they replaced Nicky with Dovi, in 2009 when Nicky went to Ducati.

I don't know if Nicky had much choice but to leave Honda at that point; sure it'd be great to see him on their current literbike, but he and Repsol didn't seem like they ever got along well.

Great business decision for Ducati, though.  

I still believe it was a poorly handled move by Repsol Honda.  Had Honda not folded to pressure from Repsol and Nicky stood his ground, chances are he would have won another championship (Pedrosa was on the A bike, Nicky on the B bike) - Dani finished 2nd overall, Nicky - somewhere else down the list.  But who knows - I don't think that contractually that Nicky was entitled to the 'A' bike.

Now if only Ducati can get something going with their new bikes....that BMW that Colin Edwards is testing is probably going tear up the tracks once it gets sorted.

I love MotoGP btw - and Moto 2 is the bomb, I just wish they allowed more than one (Honda) engine

[DredheadV2.0]

Feel free to share your love of MotoGP in the "MotoGP 2012" thread, in the Pit Row forum.  

[atadaskew]

Gotta bring it back to Honda, yet again.

Releasing a 'custom' plastic chopper-esque bike - The Fury! - five years after the fad had already passed.

[tomek]

I still believe it was a poorly handled move by Repsol Honda.  Had Honda not folded to pressure from Repsol and Nicky stood his ground, chances are he would have won another championship (Pedrosa was on the A bike, Nicky on the B bike) - Dani finished 2nd overall, Nicky - somewhere else down the list.  But who knows - I don't think that contractually that Nicky was entitled to the 'A' bike.

Now if only Ducati can get something going with their new bikes....that BMW that Colin Edwards is testing is probably going tear up the tracks once it gets sorted. ( , about 6 seconds off pace so far )

In what year would it be , Nicky wining second championship ?

He won in 2006 , 2007 was a first year for 800 bikes and Stoner won easily on Ducati , Honda and Yamaha totally uncompetitive . Turds in other words .

 In 2008 Yamaha improved enough , Rossi won , although some still  accuse him of performing some voodoo ritual on Stoner cousing Aussi`s front end to fold on more then one occasion .
Honda in the woods , uncompetitive bike again .

2009-2010 Yamaha easily wins , Rossi and Lorenzo . In the second part of 2010 season Honda finally recovers and Pedrosa wins couple of races .

2011 - Honda and Stoner smoke everyone .

[Snowbird]

Gotta bring it back to Honda, yet again.

Releasing a 'custom' plastic chopper-esque bike - The Fury! - five years after the fad had already passed.

The Fury alone kept Honda dealers from going out of business during the recent recession.

[atadaskew]

The Fury alone kept Honda dealers from going out of business during the recent recession.

Seriously?
I haven't seen a single one out in the wild (So Cal).

[bomber]

Very true.
I think the problem is that they've painted themselves into a corner (a very profitable corner but a corner none-the-less) so much so that NOTHING other than classic cruisers can be sold under the HD name. I think a separate brand is the only way their going sell std's or adv bikes or sporty bikes or whatever because nobody looking for a Harley is interested in anything other than a cruiser.
You're right though, it's all "arm-chair QB-ing" though so take it for what it's worth.

I would just love to see an American brand offer something to people that don't want a large cruiser.

So would I -- I kept hoping Victory would be the brand that did that, but it's pretty clear that was an empty hope . . . .

Ah well, HD won't miss my money, there are lots of folks standing in line ;-}

[Fourstring]

Seriously?
I haven't seen a single one out in the wild (So Cal).

Yep.  Got two friends that own 'em.  Not bad, for what they are.

[sammyseaman]

The Fury alone kept Honda dealers from going out of business during the recent recession.

Really?   I would think their CRF's and CBR's are what kept them "afloat".

[ksann]

Lawn Dart buying The Bitch, a/k/a Christine.

Someone else buying The Bitch from Lawn Dart.

 

Hehehe




ken

[BashamR6S]

Nobody's gonna touch the tv show American chopper as a bad decision huh?
Bash

[HipGnosis]

Nobody's gonna touch the tv show American chopper as a bad decision huh?
Bash

Umm..  that's a'cause this is about 'motorcycling'.  

[Kraz]

Hehehe

Yeah yeah - laugh it up, fellas.      Joke's probably on the current owner.  

[leanin]

 OK, so I say I don't want the electronic dual-clutch because I'm not that lazy and I like to shift. The option of the slipper-clutch is pretty nice, but... I can't get ABS without the electronic clutch?! A $15k SPORT-TOURER, with NO ABS and NO BAGS?!

FWIW All VFR1200s come with ABS.  And the slipper-clutch isn't an option, its standard.

[MichiganMan]

The Fury alone kept Honda dealers from going out of business during the recent recession.

They parked'em right in the front window - no one from the bank would come close enough to serve the foreclosure papers!  

[cbsnbiker]

Yeah yeah - laugh it up, fellas.      Joke's probably on the current owner.  

 

[ksann]

Yeah yeah - laugh it up, fellas.      Joke's probably on the current owner.  

I have the right to laugh on this one, I bought Christine new, she earned her reputation initially under my watch....



ken

[Kraz]

I think there was full disclosure on the sale - you all have the right to laugh.  

[Dan K]

So would I -- I kept hoping Victory would be the brand that did that, but it's pretty clear that was an empty hope . . . .

Ah well, HD won't miss my money, there are lots of folks standing in line ;-}

There's still hope for Motus, as well as Victory, since they at least are making concepts that aren't traditional cruiser/tourer models (e.g., the NesCafe bike).

- Dan

[DredheadV2.0]

I have the right to laugh on this one, I bought Christine new, she earned her reputation initially under my watch....

Wait, was Christine the bike you leant me when Kris and I came to visit?

[Royal Tiger]

There's still hope for Motus, as well as Victory, since they at least are making concepts that aren't traditional cruiser/tourer models (e.g., the NesCafe bike).

- Dan

I saw the Motus when they brought two of them to Ferracci's.  I would consider one if I was in the market for that type of bike.

[gritsngravy]

Getting rid of the very low maintenance Honda Nighthawk 650/700 series.   What great bikes, hydraulic valves, shaft drive, hydraulic clutch & brakes, spin on oil filters, air cooled, analogue gauges and the all important center stand!    Actually  Honda probably realized all the service dollars they were missing out on and decided to pull the plug so it was probably a smart business decision.        It's a shame with all the tech out there these days a lot of the really useful basic stuff has been dropped from your average street bike.  

[boardsNbikes]

With gas prices going up and probably staying up, I'd say ignoring the 400cc market for standard and sportbike-type motorcycles is a bad, short-sided move.  I see a lot of circa-70s and 80s ~400cc Yamahas running around here.  

Scooters fill the niche but the riders are in a totally different mindset with regard to safety gear.  Flip-flops seem to be an acknowledgement of some level of safety.

[Rattlehead]

.......
Scooters fill the niche but the riders are in a totally different mindset with regard to safety gear.  Flip-flops seem to be an acknowledgement of some level of safety.

Around here scooters are the most hardcore riders of all! It can be -15 out and snowing and those scooters are still out there terrorizing the streets. Of course, it could be that the rider had one too many DWI's and lost their liscense.    Seems to be a common occurrence in these parts.

[atadaskew]

Getting rid of the very low maintenance Honda Nighthawk 650/700 series.   What great bikes, hydraulic valves, shaft drive, hydraulic clutch & brakes, spin on oil filters, air cooled, analogue gauges and the all important center stand!    Actually  Honda probably realized all the service dollars they were missing out on and decided to pull the plug so it was probably a smart business decision.        It's a shame with all the tech out there these days a lot of the really useful basic stuff has been dropped from your average street bike.  

Agree completely.  The Nighthawk 700S w/ bikini fairing was such a great bike.  Looked great too.  And also for all the stuff you mentioned.
Service depts must have hated it as they never saw it.

[mica]

New Coke  

Yeah, I know but couldn't resist.

I like that fact that Honda seems to push the technology. But I do not understand why they seem too consistently miss the mark on the US market though.

[atadaskew]

Has anyone mentioned Honda dumping the gear driven cams and going to Vtec?

Man, I loved that whine of the gear cams on my old VFR.  Just sounded so freakin' exotic.

[Bravo12]

FWIW All VFR1200s come with ABS.  And the slipper-clutch isn't an option, its standard.

I was mistaken about the ABS; I thought I read last year that the C-ABS only came with the electronic dual-clutch model. And I meant the slipper-clutch as an "option" to the electronic dual-clutch model.

Still... $15k+ for a sport-tourer with no bags, no heated grips, just ABS and a slipper-clutch. Why would Honda get my money over Triumph, when I could get a Sprint GT (similar horsepower, similar handling, includes hard bags, about $2k less, and the Triumph dealer would actually let me test-ride one first)?