Car Talk: Need AWD dog and people hauler w/ good power.

[vulcanbill]

Want and need are relative.  Obviously this is assuming we get everything we want.  ha.

Haul 2 large (tall) dogs and 4 people.
AWD / 4WD
Not the size of the Titantic
Decent gas mileage (defined as over 20 most of the time)
Good power
Affordable (defined as close to 40K as possible if not below)
Well appointed with heated leather, auto dim heated mirrors, remote start
Prefer to NOT have a big ole screen on the dash I have to talk to.  

Assumptions are that the large SUVs like Tahoe/'burban fail because of mileage and price, the small SUV/crossovers like Forester, Sorento, et al don't have room in the back for the dogs, as is the case w just about anything with sexy lines.  Vehicle will be new.

Discounted that we looked at:
Honda Pilot.  Fold flat third row is anything but flat.  Its more like a ramp.
Nissan Pathfinder:  Mileage is dismal at best w/ a 4.0
Volvo XC 60:  Too small in the back
Volvo XC 90:  Steering wheel plastic cuts into hands and the money would be a stretch
Suzuki GV:  Too small in the back
Kia Sorento(?):  Too small in back
Ford Escape and Edge:  Too small in back
VW Tig-thing:  Too small
VW Jetta wagon TDI:  Not available in AWD
Caddy SUV:  $$$$$$

So, here's what's still in the running:

Volvo XC70 - Had 2 previous wagons.  Familiar w/ the good and the bad.  Comes in a T6.
Toyota Highlander - Played w/ it but haven't driven it.  Afraid of tepid motor.
Toyota 4runner - Played with it but haven't driven it.  
Ford Flex Ecoboost - Drove it and loved it.  Really surprising in almost every way.  Top contender at this point.
Chevy Traverse - Haven't even seen it yet.

What vehicles need to be included in my list based on the criteria?

Thanks.

[Cablebandit]

Assumptions are that the large SUVs like Tahoe/'burban fail because of mileage and price, the small SUV/crossovers like Forester, Sorento, et al don't have room in the back for the dogs, as is the case w just about anything with sexy lines.  Vehicle will be new.

[Kootenanny]

Just a quick comment--I have a Suzuki GV, which is too small in the back--until you take out the rear seats and put up a barrier!  Take a look at how I modded my GV here.

The GV is a great go-anywhere AWD vehicle, but it is a bit more "truckish" than some, and does use more fuel than you might expect (or, at least my 06 2.7L does).

BTW, when I had my head-on a month ago, both my dogs were in the rear of the GV (as shown above), and everyone was OK.  I ended up replacing it with another GV, identical except for colour.


Another vehicle you might want to look at is the Honda Element, which was available with AWD (and a 5-spd manual, too, which is why they were on my radar when I was looking)...discontinued in 2010 though, AFAIK.  

[Galo]

A Highlander with the V6 is definitely NOT tepid....0-60 in 7.1 is quick!

[JReazor]

We have a Malinois and a Cannan Dog. The Mal is on the small side for the breed but she's probably not too much smaller than your Belgains. The CD is a little bit bigger than she is.

The two of them fit in the back of our Forrester but it's a bit tight front to back. The height is fine. If you want a little more room than that, the Outback would be an excellent choice. We had a previous gen Outback that was the perfect dog hauler. If I were you I would take the dogs to a couple dealerships and see for your self. Any salesman worth his salt won't mind vacuuming out a little fur once you're done.

[JReazor]

Another vehicle you might want to look at is the Honda Element, which was available with AWD (and a 5-spd manual, too, which is why they were on my radar when I was looking)...discontinued in 2010 though, AFAIK.  

I could be wrong but I think it would be tough to get the dogs in to an Ele with the rear seats in place.

[Rincewind]

What's wrong with an AWD mini-van?  

[JReazor]

What's wrong with an AWD mini-van?  

 

[Rincewind]

 

If I was buying it, and I was going to be a passenger frequently, I would much prefer a mini-van over climbing into the back of a SUV.  The back seats of minivans can be very comfortable and well-appointed, especially if it has captain's seats instead of a bench.

[JReazor]

If I was buying it, and I was going to be a passenger frequently, I would much prefer a mini-van over climbing into the back of a SUV.  The back seats of minivans can be very comfortable and well-appointed, especially if it has captain's seats instead of a bench.

Well, yeah but... IT'S A MINIVAN!

Station wagons are way cooler

[Kootenanny]

I could be wrong but I think it would be tough to get the dogs in to an Ele with the rear seats in place.

But the rear seats are readily removed AFAIK (and it doesn't have to be a semi=permanent removal, as with my GV).  Once the seats are out, the cargo space in the Element is quite large.  Access is good, and the floors are rubber mat--you can supposedly just hose the car out (not that I would...).  It is basically a CRV with a different body, though--more of a car than a truck.

I don't see how any of the smaller SUVs are going to fit dogs with the rear seats in place.  I am interested, though, in the Ford Flex with Ecoboost; didn't know that vehicle was available in AWD.  Unfortunately for me, though, I doubt it'll have a stickshift option...

[Frankienuckles]

Check out the Hyundai Santa Fe.

[JReazor]

But the rear seats are readily removed AFAIK (and it doesn't have to be a semi=permanent removal, as with my GV).  Once the seats are out, the cargo space in the Element is quite large.  Access is good, and the floors are rubber mat--you can supposedly just hose the car out (not that I would...).  It is basically a CRV with a different body, though--more of a car than a truck.

I don't see how any of the smaller SUVs are going to fit dogs with the rear seats in place.  I am interested, though, in the Ford Flex with Ecoboost; didn't know that vehicle was available in AWD.  Unfortunately for me, though, I doubt it'll have a stickshift option...

They are but vulcanbill says he needs to accommodate the dogs and 4 people.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

I'm kinda thinking Subaru. Wasn't one of the subies built with a raised roof in the cargo section?

My first thought was my Subaru Outback Legacy ('01). Has plenty of space in the back, comfortably hauls 4 people and I get around 22mpg in mine. It won't win any races, but it'll get you there, sure and steady  

[darkstarmoto]

Subaru Outback (might not be big enough for large dogs)?

The Legacy Wagon could be gotten with a "raised roof" back in the late 90's early 2K's.

[MrsCablebandit]

Subaru Outback (might not be big enough for large dogs)?

The Legacy Wagon could be gotten with a "raised roof" back in the late 90's early 2K's.

We considered the Outback and the Forester and ultimately went with the Forester so our German Shorthaired Pointer could stand up in the back.

[stevent]

The XC70 would be my choice, practical but still cool. Next would be the Outback.

[antvq]

The new Dodge Durango with the V6 sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

[Mastros2]

If you want a little more room than that, the Outback would be an excellent choice. We had a previous gen Outback that was the perfect dog hauler.

I agree.  The outback has more cargo room than the Forester.  

[Mastros2]

We considered the Outback and the Forester and ultimately went with the Forester so our German Shorthaired Pointer could stand up in the back.

I forgot the height can be an issue with the outback. I say check out both.

[Cablebandit]

I forgot the height can be an issue with the outback. I say check out both.

Which is why the Forester got the nod for us over the Outback.  The sloping rear window make the back of the Outback less spacious if you have a tall item (dog).

[ray916mn]

I own an '05 Outback XT. Roof height is probably a little short for your dogs. It is fine for my Rott, but your dogs are taller.

The current models are significantly taller and probably worth a look. The range topping model (Outback 3.6R) has a 256hp normally aspirated engine, which should make it decently fast.

Unfortunately the normally aspirated engine replaces the turbo 2.5 which was easy to tweak for more power. Tweaked, mine produces a dyno verified 300 hp at the wheels. It is quite a bit of fun for a wagon grocery getter.

[Kootenanny]

They are but vulcanbill says he needs to accommodate the dogs and 4 people.

Oops--missed that.  I think he's gonna be looking at a larger vehicle, if the dogs are going to have any decent room.

During my recent vehicle shopping, I did look very closely at a Dodge Ram 2500 diesel 4X4--with 260K km on it, it was in the  same price range as the used Suzuki GV that I bought.  I had a Dodge diesel pickup previously, drove it for 10 years--a great vehicle, and the crew cab versions will easily fit 4 adults, with tons of room in the bed for the dogs (with a canopy, of course).  And the Cummins engine in these gets great mileage--my Suzuki burns the same amount of fuel as my Dodge did.

[JReazor]

Which is why the Forester got the nod for us over the Outback.  The sloping rear window make the back of the Outback less spacious if you have a tall item (dog).

Was that the current Outback? They don't look like they give up much height to the Forrester. My 08 seemed to be almost as tall as our current gen Forrester.

[vulcanbill]

I forgot the height can be an issue with the outback. I say check out both.

This was the issue we ran into.  The floor space is great.  And the numbers look really good.  However, when you shut the hatch and all that plastic now occupies the rear space where dog butt or head would need to be, it causes an issue.  That's why we defaulted back to square or nearly square.  I have no idea how they can claim that the Outback has nearly the same spaces as the XC70.  

Kim was all set to buy a Subaru after watching a bunch of videos of it up against competitors in AWD tests.  We were REALLY disappointed to see how NOT really big the space was for the boys.  The 3.6R is attractive but the boys' comfort is kinda high on the list especially as they age.    Plus, it's likely we'll always have dogs that size so the problem will always exist.  I agree that we should show up w/ the dogs to doube check.

[vulcanbill]

If you don't mind the fuel costs, the larger Expeditions and suburbans can be had for a song these days. Even full-sized Broncos in good running shape are available under $2k.

This vehicle will be replacing an 03 Audi which is nickel / diming us to death.  Thus the requirement, nay, preference for a new or nearly new vehicle.  It will also be doing commuter duty into office parks w/ parking garages which is why we're trying to avoid huge vehicles w/ huge gas prices.  Bad enough that the other vehicle is a hemi ram.  It only fits in the garage at work w/out the cap on it.  

[Cablebandit]

Diesel Excursion.  

[Kootenanny]

 Bad enough that the other vehicle is a hemi ram.  It only fits in the garage at work w/out the cap on it.  

Ah--you already have a pickup (although, the diesel is night and day compared to the gas engine for mileage...).

I will make one more comment, based on my experience with my Suzuki compared to my wife's Focus wagon.  The Suzuki's rear door swings on a side hinge, while the Focus rear hatch opens upwards.  For dealing with the dogs, I find the side-opening door is much nicer, as I can open it just a few inches and get the dogs to sit while I open it all the way--with the top-hinged hatch on the Focus, I have to swing the hatch fully open before I can effectively communicate with the dogs, and if they're inclined to jump out it can be harder to control them.  This is a minor detail, but it is worth knowing.

[Cablebandit]

with the top-hinged hatch on the Focus, I have to swing the hatch fully open before I can effectively communicate with the dogs, and if they're inclined to jump out it can be harder to control them.  This is a minor detail, but it is worth knowing.

Hand signals..

[vulcanbill]

The new Dodge Durango with the V6 sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

Well, humpf I say.  I'm not sure I can do another Dodge based on my life w/ the Ram so far.  Dealer is blah but I guess my gripes are probably unique to the Ram and shouldn't reflect the whole brand.  Will research.  It will need to be quite something to oust the Flex at this point.  

[vulcanbill]

Ah--you already have a pickup (although, the diesel is night and day compared to the gas engine for mileage...).

I will make one more comment, based on my experience with my Suzuki compared to my wife's Focus wagon.  The Suzuki's rear door swings on a side hinge, while the Focus rear hatch opens upwards.  For dealing with the dogs, I find the side-opening door is much nicer, as I can open it just a few inches and get the dogs to sit while I open it all the way--with the top-hinged hatch on the Focus, I have to swing the hatch fully open before I can effectively communicate with the dogs, and if they're inclined to jump out it can be harder to control them.  This is a minor detail, but it is worth knowing.

This is where the Highlander and 4runner are a win.  The both have the ability to lift or lower the glass to deal w/ the dogs when they aren't leaving the vehicle...water breaks on road trips or snapping leashes before exiting.  I wish everything had that and it is something we're considering.   Also, history w/ two Volvo wagons has given us plenty of perspective on the subject.  They're good boys tho and only try to escape when we're at the vet.  Duh.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

The 3.6R is attractive but the boys' comfort is kinda high on the list especially as they age.    Plus, it's likely we'll always have dogs that size so the problem will always exist.  I agree that we should show up w/ the dogs to doube check.

I think that we need some pictures of the dogs  

[BradleyRas]

Dodge Durango with a Hemi?

[Kootenanny]

Plus, it's likely we'll always have dogs that size so the problem will always exist.  I agree that we should show up w/ the dogs to doube check.

Ha!  Yeah, we're in the same boat...we'll likely always have at least one dog.

There is a Ford dealer right across the road from our vet's office.  Several years ago, while off-handedly shopping for a vehicle for my wife, we went across to check out their offerings--taking the dogs were with us, on leash.  We were looking at a Focus, and said we'd like to demo one, but we'd come back without the dogs...he said no problem, take them with you on the test drive, because they're part of the family too, right?  We did so, and ended up buying a Focus from him (not the same one we took the demo in, either).

[vulcanbill]

I think that we need some pictures of the dogs  

Clearly, someone didn't pay attention to my blog after our most excellent adventure across the country last summer.    

I can't verify at work but I think this is a video of one of our better days on the trip...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cCX9ffstog

Here are a couple of samples of how our dogs live if this gives you any insight into why they play such a huge role in a vehicle purchase...

http://vulcanbill.blogspot.com/2010/08/august-3snra-day.html

http://vulcanbill.blogspot.com/2010/08/august-7snra-day12-v2.html adventure day

http://vulcanbill.blogspot.com/2010/08/august-8snra-day-13.html recovery from adventure day

They got shaved right before the trip but have nice, regal full coats again now.  

[vulcanbill]

Ha!  Yeah, we're in the same boat...we'll likely always have at least one dog.

There is a Ford dealer right across the road from our vet's office.  Several years ago, while off-handedly shopping for a vehicle for my wife, we went across to check out their offerings--taking the dogs were with us, on leash.  We were looking at a Focus, and said we'd like to demo one, but we'd come back without the dogs...he said no problem, take them with you on the test drive, because they're part of the family too, right?  We did so, and ended up buying a Focus from him (not the same one we took the demo in, either).

The guy at the Ford dealer we went to told us to bring the dogs in too.  So did the kids at Toyota and Honda tho.  And there was a mastiff mix at the Toyota dealership we were going to ask if we could borrow but the lady started on a tangent about us not tethering our dogs w/ seat belts so i was done talking to her.  

[1moreroad]

GMC Terrain and Dodge Journey would do what you are asking for.  Tall in the back.  Gas mileage is decent with the smaller engine.  AWD available.

[Flyer]

What vehicles need to be included in my list based on the criteria?

What's wrong with an AWD mini-van?  

+1 or more.
Sounds like Dodge's Grand Caravan is just what you need.
Wait, don't laugh.
It has comfortable room for four plus two tails, it has better mileage than you have a right to expect with all that cargo, and you can find a used AWD version for considerably less than your $40K. Throw a grooming tent and sleeping bags up on the roof-rack, and you have a cheap dog show.

[vulcanbill]

Dodge Durango with a Hemi?

Just what I need....2 hemis in the house.  

[Kootenanny]

http://vulcanbill.blogspot.com/2010/08/august-3snra-day.html

I enjoyed your blog entries.  I used to ride my mountain bike with my dog, or dogs, pretty much every day.  I'll still get out with at least one of our current dogs when I get the chance.  If you're into it, there's a well-known trail right near me (and no worries if you want to take your dogs).

Here's one of my current dogs:  http://photoshare.shaw.ca/image/b/d/2/54398/img00048201005091253-0.jpg?rev=0

[shawn and gwyn]

although chevy doesnt make them anymore.. one of the best AWDs we ever had was the chevy astro ext.. 3 rows of seats, easly folded down or removed. bullet proof AWD system. and a great motor.. we used to get about 20 mpg. had plenty of power,  they made them through 05 i think.  4 to 5k will get you a realy nice low miles one. and parts are everywhere.

shawn

[Bounce]

Subaru Tribeca or Forester

[Giaka]

[R Doug]

The Flex with Ecoboost is great. The motor will scoot with good mileage and the flex is plenty big for 4 people and two dogs.

I am not sure where the Touareg starts price wise. But we LOVE our TDI Touareg. It fits 4 large adults comfortably and there's room for two mid sized dogs in the back.

[falconati]

Range Rover Evoque.  Just over the price, but damn is it great.

[vulcanbill]

Diesel Excursion.  

I see what you did there.