damn insurance companies!!!

[wonderings]

Well I just talked to my brother who is 24, looking at getting his first bike. He will be doing a motorcycle safety course here in SW Ontario. The bike he is looking at buy is a 1990 Suzuki Katana 600, or a 88 Kawasaki Ninja 750. I recommended the Katana myself, my cousin has one and I think its a good starter. Anywho... Insurances wants $3000 CAD a year, just liability for this bike. Thats more then the bike costs. This is crazy. Another friend, much older then myself, almost 50 years old (I am 26) bought his first bike this year, a Suzuki Boulevard 800. He is doing the course before he rides as well, his insurance was $2000 CAD. Is it just me or does it seem like insurances is trying to make it as hard as possible for any new riders to start riding? The katana is no speed demon by any means. DAMN THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

sorry, just needed to vent a little.

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

No offense I am glad I live where I am at. under $500. for both of my bikes full coverage.

[2XX2]

Well, yeah.  Insurance companies suck, right up to the point they write the checks...  And of course, they never pay what you expect to be paid.

You also could say.. "Damn all those young bikers that have been in accidents and have proven and justified the rates that the damn insurance companies charge!"

It's the younger, untrained, and inexperienced riders that have accidents.  They raise the cost for everyone.

[wonderings]

No offense I am glad I live where I am at. under $500. for both of my bikes full coverage.

with prices like that I can understand being able to have more then one bike. Its unthinkable financially for me right now to insure 2 bikes. I pay $1100 CAD a year for my 919. If I was paying what you are I would have at least 3 bikes. Gotta live with just one for the time being, oh well, one is better then none.

[CBRXXBLACKBIRD]

Yes I agree it better to have one then none at all.

[windsorgreen1]

Well, yeah.  Insurance companies suck, right up to the point they write the checks...  And of course, they never pay what you expect to be paid.

You also could say.. "Damn all those young bikers that have been in accidents and have proven and justified the rates that the damn insurance companies charge!"

It's the younger, untrained, and inexperienced riders that have accidents.  They raise the cost for everyone.

This is crap. It's always been the newbies who have the most accidents but it's only been over the last couple of years that the insurance companies are trying to commit financial rape. My best riding buddy is 49yrs old, & has been riding for 30yrs. He had one accident when he was 20. No money was paid out. Progressive just quoted him $1600/yr for liability only on a new Triumph Daytona.  He only pays $400/yr full coverage for his Harley that's easily worth double the Triumph. Insurance companies suck- plain & simple. They rape you because they can. My ex used to work in the industry & she was one of them. Scum. Very few are otherwise.

ok off my soapbox now  

[dr dralion]

Wow, rates are really expensive.  

When I was 24, my then 6 year old BMW R850R cost me $330 a year for liability.  When I turned 25, it went down to $78 a year.  Now the bike it 10 years old and its $72.  It sure does suck for a newbie to pay over $3000 on a 17 year old bike.  I'm sure when I move to a larger city than St. Louis, rates will go up.

Kev

[2XX2]

This is crap. It's always been the newbies who have the most accidents but it's only been over the last couple of years that the insurance companies are trying to commit financial rape. My best riding buddy is 49yrs old, & has been riding for 30yrs. He had one accident when he was 20. No money was paid out. Progressive just quoted him $1600/yr for liability only on a new Triumph Daytona.  He only pays $400/yr full coverage for his Harley that's easily worth double the Triumph. Insurance companies suck- plain & simple. They rape you because they can. My ex used to work in the industry & she was one of them. Scum. Very few are otherwise.

ok off my soapbox now  

Gee... thanks.  I like being called scum.

And it's not crap.

Maybe the insurance companies from where you hail from are allowed to "rape" people for fun.  Yeah... right.  Where I come from, the rates have to be justified through experience.  Sportbikes end up in the parts bin for a reason.  Inexperienced people riding the roads like they were on a track.  Yes, Hardlys end up there too, but not by young guys carving up roads.  It's not all about the value of the bike.  It's about liability, and medical bills.  You obviously are an uninformed insurance consumer.  I'd suggest doing a little research before you start calling people scum.  I'm not your ex-wife.

That is all.

[Scratch33]

[Somerset]

Just find a better company. When I was looking for my first time the same thing happen to me - my auto company (while good for car insurance) quoted me some insane rates for the bike. When I asked "WTF so much?" they told me that they do not specialize in bikes and gave me the name of another company. That company (Primmum) had very decent prices.
In general insurance rates betweem ON and QC vary though, we have different laws in QC, may be this gets into play as well.

Hope this helps.

Somerset

[2XX2]

Just find a better company. When I was looking for my first time the same thing happen to me - my auto company (while good for car insurance) quoted me some insane rates for the bike. When I asked "WTF so much?" they told me that they do not specialize in bikes and gave me the name of another company. That company (Primmum) had very decent prices.
In general insurance rates betweem ON and QC vary though, we have different laws in QC, may be this gets into play as well.

Hope this helps.

Somerset

Very good advice Somerset.

And yes.... territory makes a difference, both with law and insurance rating.

[kenga]

It's the younger, untrained, and inexperienced riders that have accidents.  They raise the cost for everyone.

Uh, that's not accurate anymore, at least in USA. Sure they have a lot, but as a group the younger, untrained, inexperienced riders have been surpassed in accident rates  by:
Older, untrained, overconfident riders.
Lots of single vehicle accidents, many with alcohol as a factor.

If we're going to assign blame, we have to complain about both groups.

[2XX2]

Uh, that's not accurate anymore, at least in USA. Sure they have a lot, but as a group the younger, untrained, inexperienced riders have been surpassed in accident rates  by:
Older, untrained, overconfident riders.
Lots of single vehicle accidents, many with alcohol as a factor.

If we're going to assign blame, we have to complain about both groups.

You make a good point Kenga.    Both groups are to blame, but as far as sportbikes go... it's still the younger riders and per % of riders, it's still the younger group.  The group you refer to is the reason the cruser insurance market is seeing increases in premiums.  Since crusers are the largest percentage of bikes on the road these days, they have the greatest numbers.  But not the greatest percentage per bike.

[R1150RTMark]

 It's not all about the value of the bike.  It's about liability, and medical bills.

This is very true.  I got to see this firsthand a few years ago when sitting on the jury of a civil trial of a young MCist versus a slightly-older (but still young) cager.  Long story short - the MCist and his pack of squids came up on the back of the cager on the freeway.  The cager moved right after two bikes tailgated, and then swung right and shot past him on the right.  MCist #3 - our unfortunate plaintiff - crashed into the rear bumper of the cage when he couldn't execute that same boneheaded manuever before the car got (legally) into the righthand lane.

So what does our poor, hapless young rider do?  Takes the advice of an ambulance-chaser lawyer who got ahold of him just after being released from the hospital and sues the cager - even though the rider himself caused the crash.  He sued for medical bills and lost wages - a total of around $15k.  He got nothing, but it probably cost him nothing other than a lost bike.  I'm reasonably sure the ambulance-chaser was working on a percentage basis with no retainer.  The cage had no damage other than a tire rub mark on the back bumper - so he didn't even have to pay for that.  I'm guessing they thought the cager's insurnace company would settle for 'something' prior to it going to trial.  Wrong.

Meanwhile, the cager's insurance company had to go through the entire process of preparing for, and executing, a court trial.  And rightly so - they were clearly in the right.  I'm sure it cost them thousands of dollars in lawyer fees and court costs.  I have no idea if they ever counter-sued to get their fees back.

But does anyone think this kind of stuff goes unnoticed by the insurance companies when they set up their actuary tables for MC riders?

[Kootenanny]

Progressive just quoted him $1600/yr for liability only on a new Triumph Daytona.  He only pays $400/yr full coverage for his Harley that's easily worth double the Triumph.

When I was 24, my then 6 year old BMW R850R cost me $330 a year for liability.  When I turned 25, it went down to $78 a year.  Now the bike it 10 years old and its $72.

I don't think liability rates have anything to do with the age or value of the bike, although I guess in some places the bike "style"--sportbike, cruiser, etc--may play a role.  Where I live, liability premiums are based solely on displacement (which means a Harley rider is always gonna pay more than a 600RR rider).

Comprehensive and collision premiums are different...

Here in BC, we are required by law to have liability insurance, and there is only one place to buy it--the government-run Insurance Corp.  We always gripe about the rates ($78 per year? try $78+ per month) but compared to Ontario and Quebec, our rates look pretty good.  Here, at least everyone gets shafted the same...

[JoelCool]

Well I just bought a '96 Ninja 250 for cheap.  Liability insurance is $140 for a year.

My '05 R1 is just under $700 / year for full coverage.

Insurance is a business, just like all the other businesses, the only reason they show up for work and provide the service they do is to make money.  Since most people don't have enough money stashed to eliminate the requirement for insurance, we have to pay the rates.  Just read Kootenanny's post - here in California, if you can prove you have enough cash available, you don't have to carry liability.

That's my $.02 - keep the change.

[phoenix]

Insurance is a business, just like all the other businesses, the only reason they show up for work and provide the service they do is to make money.

It's a business, yes, but most states require you to have insurance before your bike can be licensed. So at times, it certainly looks like insurance companies can exploit the situation.

[R1150RTMark]

It's a business, yes, but most states require you to have insurance before your bike can be licensed. So at times, it certainly looks like insurance companies can exploit the situation.

This MIGHT not be entirely true - technically.  Here in OH, we have to sign a 'Proof of financial responsibility' form to license any vehicle.  I think there are bond amounts in the six-figure range.

Soooooo, if one has a hundred thou or so sitting in a bank somewhere, they could probably get away without buying insurance.

And I intend to do just that - right after I win the lottery.  

[cbsnbiker]

One question that hasn't been asked in this thread: why are rates in Canada, or at least that province, different from what's commonly available in the U.S.?

[Choicecut]

Wow some of the rates people are getting seem outrageous! Have you guys tried Progressive Insurance? I am only 28 and my wife is only 25, we are both insured to ride all three of our bikes and it's only 220/yr.