damn insurance companies!!!

[Penforhire]

It pays to shop.  I was quoted a 4-to-1 range for the same insurance!  But it did take five or six inquiries to find the best rate.  Good payback on the time it took to call around.

[TWI]

As for any goods or services, you got to shop around.  When my GF retured to riding in '05, she called for quote on insurance and was appalled by the quote.  A few calls later she found coverage for 1/4 of the first quote.  

2XX2:  Where are you from?  You think people should be informed before forming opinions and expressing them?  That is so foreign to my experiences; we must live on different planets.  I like yours better.

[highside]

As for any goods or services, you got to shop around.  When my GF retured to riding in '05, she called for quote on insurance and was appalled by the quote.  A few calls later she found coverage for 1/4 of the first quote.  

2XX2:  Where are you from?  You think people should be informed before forming opinions and expressing them?  That is so foreign to my experiences; we must live on different planets.  I like yours better.

Here are the first two sentances that started this thread:

Well I just talked to my brother who is 24, looking at getting his first bike. He will be doing a motorcycle safety course here in SW Ontario.

[Global Rider]

The collision only added $6.00 a month ($72.00 a year) to the overall policy for me, which is pretty reasonable overall.

I wasn't talking about collision coverage. I was talking about liability and accident benefits coverage (the mandatory items) which do not cover my vehicle. Yet when I buy insurance, they ask me what type of vehicle I'm driving and how much it cost. If I am only buying liability insurance, what difference does it make what my vehicle costs, but you pay accordingly. Why, because my vehicle may cost more to fix than another in the case of someone hitting me...so how is that my problem? So if you drive an expensive car, even though you don't take any insurance related to the car itself, your premiums are high because it costs "the insurance industry" money to fix it. And again, how is that my problem exactly?

Insurance = biggest rip-off and scam going!

[highside]

I wasn't talking about collision coverage. I was talking about liability and accident benefits coverage (the mandatory items) which do not cover my vehicle. Yet when I buy insurance, they ask me what type of vehicle I'm driving and how much it cost. If I am only buying liability insurance, what difference does it make what my vehicle costs, but you pay accordingly. Why, because my vehicle may cost more to fix than another in the case of someone hitting me...so how is that my problem? So if you drive an expensive car, even though you don't take any insurance related to the car itself, your premiums are high because it costs "the insurance industry" money to fix it. And again, how is that my problem exactly?

Well, when you have a system in which the same company is liable to cover every accident that occurs then they have a good reason to discourage expensive vehicles.

Also, the price and specifics of a persons vehicle does have a statistical impact on the likelyhood of them being involved in an at-fault accident.

[TheRedOnesAreFaster]

And why is it my rates don't go down from year to year? The vehicle is worth less after five years.

The parts to fix it aren't costing less after five years.  That's why your rate doesn't go down.

[highside]

The parts to fix it aren't costing less after five years.  That's why your rate doesn't go down.

No but their maximum potential out lay has gone down significantly. No matter how much the parts cost they will never have to pay more than the market value of the vehicle, thats what it means to "total" a vehicle, so yes their financial liability on a particular vehicle does go down every year. Of course, this shouldnt impact liability insurance, but it should impact collision and comprehensive.

[TheRedOnesAreFaster]

No but their maximum potential out lay has gone down significantly. No matter how much the parts cost they will never have to pay more than the market value of the vehicle, thats what it means to "total" a vehicle, so yes their financial liability on a particular vehicle does go down every year. Of course, this shouldnt impact liability insurance, but it should impact collision and comprehensive.

That's why you should drop your comp/collision after your bike's value has dropped past a certain point.  What that point is is up to you to determine.  C/C only costing you $100 a year, and your bike's worth $2000?  Keep it forever.

But if you're riding an old bike that's worth that $2K, and you C/C is $600?  Get rid of it.  As long as you own it and the bank doesn't tell you you have to carry it.

[highside]

That's why you should drop your comp/collision after your bike's value has dropped past a certain point.  What that point is is up to you to determine.  C/C only costing you $100 a year, and your bike's worth $2000?  Keep it forever.

But if you're riding an old bike that's worth that $2K, and you C/C is $600?  Get rid of it.  As long as you own it and the bank doesn't tell you you have to carry it.

I agree completely. Personally I drop C/C if my premiums over 5 years totals more than the value of the bike that I am insuring. I don't total very many vehicles and I certainly don't total a bike every 5 years, so this means that I will always come out behind if I were to continue paying insurance at that rate on that vehicle. There is a bottom line here though. Once a bike falls below about $2000 I drop the coverage regardless simply because I would rather gamble that i won't have an accident than that I will, and $2000 is a small enough wager that I am willing to risk it, it has paid off well so far.

[Global Rider]

No but their maximum potential out lay has gone down significantly. No matter how much the parts cost they will never have to pay more than the market value of the vehicle, thats what it means to "total" a vehicle, so yes their financial liability on a particular vehicle does go down every year.

Exactly!

BTW, I've gambled for 32 years. I'm way ahead since I've been accident and insurance claim free since I've started driving. My premiums to the insurance company is free money to them, as far as I'm concerned.

I think its time to write the minister in this province another letter re the legalities of forcing me to take out insurance that I can never collect on. I think I'll bring that up on a senior's forum as well as they are all paying that premium for nothing as well since they get a regular monthly pensioner's income.

[boostforfun]

I am married, 26, and have a clean record and live in Omaha, Ne.  My busa was $650 a year when I was 24.  My ZZR is abour 500 a year now.  It will be cheaper still when I move back to Iowa.

[Scoop]

Hey scoop...  that doesn't sound like abuse by the insurance companies.  That sounds like your government is screwing you.  I'm close enough to Canada (NY) that I'm pretty sure you still have an elected government.  ANY industry that is in business to make money is going to take advantage of an opportunity if it presents its self.  In your case, you are required to purchase this "accident" coverage?  That's not the insurance industry mandating that.  That's your government that has the criminal practices.  So here we go.... all the insurance industries fault... right?

My whole problem with this issue is that the opinion that "all" insurance companies (therefore everyone in the business) are out to screw everyone is just plain wrong.  It's simply not so, and hearing it repeated over and over does nobody any good.  Overall, in all the years that I have been involved, the great majority of people in insurance do the right thing.  Is there corruption in the industry?  Yes.  But, that can be said in any industry.

The key thing is to shop around for the best coverage / premium.  Find an agent that you trust, that is knowledgeable, and can keep you up on insurance trends/changes.  Educate yourself about how insurance works.  And in your case... vote!

The uninformed opinions and stories about "my buddy this", and "my buddy that" doesn't do one bit of good for anyone.

Oh, I know the gov't is screwing me.  That goes without mention.  It's not just the insurance companies that have them in their pocket, so does most of "big business".  And I agree.  Shopping around and playing one company against another is to the consumer's advantage.  If you don't do that, then you are screwing yourself.  But, when I had to threaten Jevco to take them to court to even insure my bike (when they "blacklisted" the Katana, I compared it to not insuring red cars as they might be statistically more at fault), and when I see them quote rates like 14 bucks and then jack the term AB coverage..... I have to call them crooked.  
Time for reform is way past.  I don't claim to have all the answers, but pressure is needed for change.  I do question my politicians on this, but they are all pretty much uncaring.  But, I won't make a claim for anything, even a write off, anymore.  I can't afford to let the insurance company know that I have ever had an accident.  As far as they know, I have never dented a fender.  I understand from speaking with brokers that it is now the norm to carry minimal insurance and pay for everything out of pocket.  So, we are mandated to have to pay for a service we cannot use.  Makes no sense to me.  So, to place blame where it is due...damn the insurance companies, the government, irresponsible young drivers and anyone else I may have left out.  Still doesn't get the insurance companies off the hook.

[Bustoutbandit]

This thread has to hold a record, if not for most posts, how about most characters. What was the original point? I think it was something about the insurance companies taking advantage of a small group of dedicated and enthusiastic participants...

DUH!!  

[windsorgreen1]

 Each company has it's own "experience" records with certain rider types, bikes, and areas.  They set rates based on this experience.... the experience they have seen with previous policies they have written to that group.  Obviously, some companies have different experiences with the different groups.  Therefore the difference in rates between companies.  In my part of the world, this is all supervised by our State Insurance Department.  The insurance department only allows the setting of rates based on "experience" records.

"it's own "experience" records with ...." They use only they data they collected from their own Policy Holders ? Crap. Sorry but that's incorrect. Insurance compies broadly collect statistics from other insurance companies, gubmit agencies, and more. You see, I have worked for MetLife for the better part of the last decade. Maybe you've heard of them ? -  they are the largest insurer in United States. Ring a bell ? I deal with Customer complaints and perform the investigations to determine what or if any process breakdowns occurred. So don't tell me what I know. I understand that Insurance "Companies" aren't out to get the Customer , but companies have too little control over how their agents conduct business. Agents should be held more accountable for their individual actions. No white collar jails or Club Meds - regular prisons.

So go ahead & tell me how virtuous the insurance industry is.

[2XX2]

Obviously, I'm not going to change the opinion of anyone here.  I'm not here to start a pi$$ing contest either.  Someone always has to keep up with the Jones' on everything.

Just a few notes:  Insurance is no different form any other industry.  Corruption is everywhere.  The largest insurer in the US is AIG.  Not Metlife.  Go look it up.  Yes, insurers exchange information.  Loss information primarily.  Do they share much.  No way.  Do you really think competing companies share their internal information?  Give away trade information?  Yeah... right.

And finally.... the companies are OK, but the agents suck.  Oh... that's precious.  The companies don't have enough control of the agents?  Boy... I'm thankful I don't work for MetLife.  I work in the best interests of my customers.  I don't want any company telling me what's best for my clientele.  

All I'd like to do is educate a few that might not have heard some of this before.  Again... Find a local, knowledgeable agent and ask questions.  Shop around for a knowledgeable agent that can help you as well as for the best premiums.  Don't deal directly with the beast, I mean companies.  And... when someone starts telling you about "their buddy's" insurance problems... walk away.  Just walk away...

[Riceman]

Well I just talked to my brother who is 24, looking at getting his first bike. He will be doing a motorcycle safety course here in SW Ontario. The bike he is looking at buy is a 1990 Suzuki Katana 600, or a 88 Kawasaki Ninja 750. I recommended the Katana myself, my cousin has one and I think its a good starter. Anywho... Insurances wants $3000 CAD a year, just liability for this bike. Thats more then the bike costs. This is crazy. Another friend, much older then myself, almost 50 years old (I am 26) bought his first bike this year, a Suzuki Boulevard 800. He is doing the course before he rides as well, his insurance was $2000 CAD. Is it just me or does it seem like insurances is trying to make it as hard as possible for any new riders to start riding? The katana is no speed demon by any means. DAMN THE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

sorry, just needed to vent a little.

Looks to me like the govt might being useing insurance companies to end motorcycle riding in CN altogether.  Kind of like continually raising the taxes on cigarettes to get people to stop smoking.  If insurance gets to the point that only the rich can afford it...everyone else will have to stop riding.  

I know that this is probably not the intent, but one could easily look at it and think so.  Also, seems strange...Doesnt CN have socialized medicine?

[Hickey]

Doesn't CN have socialized medicine?

Sure.  But since there is no such thing as a free lunch, those medical bills have to get paid somehow.  Higher taxes, yes, but maybe there are some hidden taxes applied to motorcycle insurance carriers that are in turn passed on to the consumer (rider) that are justified (in the minds of those in power) since they believe motorcyclists are more likely to cost the medical system money.

Just a theory.

[Clark Kent]

It's a business, yes, but most states require you to have insurance before your bike can be licensed. So at times, it certainly looks like insurance companies can exploit the situation.

Sorry, but they can't do that.  Their rates have to be approved by the State or Province they are to be used in.

The Ins. companies file their rates and the data they used to justify them.  They are approved or denied baised on that data.

If you don't like the cost of the ins. you don't have to buy the bike.  

Rates are based on the "Loss histroy of that "class" of bike and then the "individual bike itself" etc.

You get what you pay for.    "THE CLASS OF RIDERS AND BIKES SET THEIR OWN RATES"

ck

[Clark Kent]

"it's own "experience" records with ...." They use only they data they collected from their own Policy Holders ? Crap. Sorry but that's incorrect. Insurance compies broadly collect statistics from other insurance companies, gubmit agencies, and more. You see, I have worked for MetLife for the better part of the last decade. Maybe you've heard of them ? -  they are the largest insurer in United States. Ring a bell ? I deal with Customer complaints and perform the investigations to determine what or if any process breakdowns occurred. So don't tell me what I know. I understand that Insurance "Companies" aren't out to get the Customer , but companies have too little control over how their agents conduct business. Agents should be held more accountable for their individual actions. No white collar jails or Club Meds - regular prisons.

So go ahead & tell me how virtuous the insurance industry is.

WOW, I LOVE THIS!  NOW IT'S THE AGENTS FAULT BECAUSE HE SOLD THE POLICY.


Why don't we put all the bike salemen in jail for selling these bikes to riders??

Why not put God in jail for allowing cancer?

WOW!  I'm going to jail!  (You guess if I'm 1.  an insurance agent. 2.  A bike salesman. 3. GOD!

If I were you, I'd go with "an insurance agent with a GOD complex"!


Now if you don't want your rates to triple, I would cast no more aspersions on insurance agents.  



CK  

[TheRedOnesAreFaster]

...Kind of like continually raising the taxes on cigarettes to get people to stop smoking...

Dude, if they wanted you to stop smoking, they'd outlaw it.  The fact is the use the health care cost argument as an excuse to raise the taxes.  And they get away with it because most people don't smoke, so the increased tax won't cost the politician any votes, so he gets to stay in office, and the government gets a big increase in revenue.

If they wanted people to stop smoking, they quit subsidizing tobacco farmers.  They don't do that, because that would cost politicians in tobacco producing states votes.

The government wants to get every possible nickel out of you it can.

Now back to the original topic....