I'm ready to smash my bike to bits!!!

[keystonejenks]

Okay, some of you already know the story but for those that don't here is a brief overview. Since October of last year I've been having intermittent starting problems. There is an electrical gremlin in there somewhere.

Anyway, when this problem first came up on my way home from Ohio in October, I took it to the dealer the next day. They didn't find anything. The tech (Bill) even rode the bike home everyday for a week to try and get the bike to duplicate the problem - nothing.

The bike acted fine the next few times out and then, it left me stranded for HOURS at a meeting place where I was suppose to go for a group ride. When my wife arrives on the scene to help me load my bike (7 hours later) the bike all of a sudden decides to start!!   It was back to business as usual.

Fast forward a few months (bike is acting fine) - I'm supposed to go on my second big ride of the season. The bike WILL NOT START - it won't even crank.  

I thought, maybe it was a bad battery so I replaced it - nothing. I double check all the fuses - nothing. I check all the wiring - nothing. So the bike is in pieces and I'm defeated so yesterday I drop it back off at the dealer. I pull into the dealer and Bill sees the bike strapped to the back of the truck - "Still?" is what he said right before he sighed.

The bike has not started in OVER a month so we roll it off the back of the truck. Bill turns the key and it fires right up!!!!! IT STARTED RIGHT UP WITH NO HESITATION!!! NONE!!!!  DIDN'T EVEN HESITATE!!!!    

I turned to him and say, "You've got to be shitting me. Hey, do you have a sledge hammer back here so I can smash my bike to bits?"  

He smiles and says, "We'll solve this, let's not be drastic."

Hopefully they fix this problem because if they don't - I'm pushing this ***** bike off a cliff OR running over it with my father-in-laws truck!!!

[keystonejenks]

   Sounds like fun, smashing a Daytona to bits.  I'm there for you if you need help - I can bring my own sledge.    

What do you think I should tell the insurance company? Will it be collision or comprehensive?  

[badger]

First three things I'd think about HARD would be ignition key switch, sidestand switch, kill switch and ignition key switch in that order.  The vibration in the back of the truck may jiggle whatever's loose in there enough to make contact again.  Since it doesn't die out while riding, I'd put my money on the ignition key switch mostly, but it could be the others.  Voltmeter at the starter would be a big help proving lack of juice there (rather than bad starter or solenoid).

Kick starts/ roll starts sure were a nice back up method...

[davenay67]

Mysteriously lose the rear SSSA and wheel before you go "Office Space" on the bike....

Have you checked the sidestand switch, in case this might be the issue..??

Dave.

What do you think I should tell the insurance company? Will it be collision or comprehensive?  

[keystonejenks]

Mysteriously lose the rear SSSA and wheel before you go "Office Space" on the bike....

Have you checked the sidestand switch, in case this might be the issue..??

Dave.

Yes I did actually.  That was the first thing I checked when the issue first came up on our ride home from Ohio. What happened though is once the bike cooled down it would start bike up. But since then, that problem has been duplicated either.  

[Tar Snake]

First three things I'd think about HARD would be ignition key switch, sidestand switch, kill switch and ignition key switch in that order.  The vibration in the back of the truck may jiggle whatever's loose in there enough to make contact again.  Since it doesn't die out while riding, I'd put my money on the ignition key switch mostly, but it could be the others.  Voltmeter at the starter would be a big help proving lack of juice there (rather than bad starter or solenoid).

Kick starts/ roll starts sure were a nice back up method...

Years ago I had an intermittent ignition switch on an old Honda 550K. I seem to remember symptoms like Badger described, when open there was no starting it at all, kick or electric, but if it started the bike never acted up while riding it.

Good luck and lock up all your implements of destruction for awhile!

[Rincewind]

Mysteriously lose the rear SSSA and wheel before you go "Office Space" on the bike....

That's what I had in mind.  



I draw the line at insurance fraud though, sorry, that's all you.  

[bluedogok]

Yes I did actually.  That was the first thing I checked when the issue first came up on our ride home from Ohio. What happened though is once the bike cooled down it would start bike up. But since then, that problem has been duplicated either.  

I had the same thing happen on a Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, it start fine cold, run for awhile and all of a sudden die. It was the ignition control module, this motor had it mounted to the distributor instead of the inner fender. It sounds like the same type of thing, I don't know if it has a similar type device or if is built into the computer. It maybe the computer, maybe a relay somewhere.

I know that it was frustrating for me in the car and was lucky that if finally died at a mall next to a Texaco service center and friends were in town.

[TheRedOnesAreFaster]

First three things I'd think about HARD would be ignition key switch, sidestand switch, kill switch and ignition key switch in that order.  The vibration in the back of the truck may jiggle whatever's loose in there enough to make contact again.  Since it doesn't die out while riding, I'd put my money on the ignition key switch mostly, but it could be the others.  Voltmeter at the starter would be a big help proving lack of juice there (rather than bad starter or solenoid).

Kick starts/ roll starts sure were a nice back up method...

Because it doesn't die while he's riding, I think the ignition switch can probably be eliminated.  However, if when the key is turned (I'm no expert on Daytonas and how they start up) the bike doesn't go through the usual stuff it has to do before you can start it (like on my 06 Sprint- the gauge hands sweep, fuel pump pressurizes) then the ignition switch is probably the problem.

If the dealer can't find the problem, the next time it happens (hopefully when you're at home) I would bypass the sidestand switch first, and then see if it starts.  Then I'd bypass the clutch switch if it didn't start.  If it didn't start after that, and it did go through its "boot up" procedure when you turned the key, then I'd guess you have bigger problems, hopefully not one that requires a new ECM.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never tried push starting my Sprint, but I believe you can still do it.  I have on one or two occasions turned off the motor while cruising down the road and just turned it back on and let the clutch out to start it back up.  Works just fine.

[Playinthestreet]

I had a similar problem, but infrequently, on my 99 ST.  Poor connection at the clutch switch.  But I'll bet you've checked that 100 times as well

[tumbler]

I had a problem very similar last year on my vstrom. It just would not start and couldn't be bump started either. Newer Suzukis (I don't know if Triumphs are the same way) can only be started if the clutch is pulled in. It turned out that the connector for this sensor came loose up by the clutch. Plugged it back in firmly and never have had the problem since.

[badger]

Clutch switch huh? I haven't seen those before.  Who all has those?  (another possible switch in the list).

[Playinthestreet]

On the Triumphs it's at the clutch lever.  

[RexRider]

Clutch switch huh? I haven't seen those before.  Who all has those?  (another possible switch in the list).

I think most bikes now have them, but I could be wrong.  I know my ZRX won't try to crank over when in gear, unless the clutch is pulled in.  

[badger]

I think most bikes now have them, but I could be wrong.  I know my ZRX won't try to crank over when in gear, unless the clutch is pulled in.  

I gotta check, but I think my ducati will (if not in gear).  I thought it was a neutral safety switch, not clutch switch

[Nny]

What about the starter button itself?  I'm no mechanic, but I've had that happen a few times on some iMacs at work.

[Gaolee]

Y'know, this is going to sound idiotic, but have you checked the battery terminal connections?  I had a similar problem with my TT600, and the battery wasn't screwed down tight.

[miles]

So, does it do all the diagnostics when you turn the to "on"?  If not, look at the kill switch.  

Does it do the diagnostics, but not crank over?  Check the starter relays and connections.  

Does it crank and crank, but not fire up?  Check the clutch and sidestand switches.

I like the idea of checking the battery connections, too- that may account for the randomness of it all.


miles

[CafeTBird]

I thought it was a neutral safety switch, not clutch switch

That is another switch.  It is in line with the gear changer.  The clutch switch is up by the clutch lever.

[weegee96]

What do you think I should tell the insurance company? Will it be collision or comprehensive?  

Coming from a claims adjuster...neither...intentional act, not that it's not justified, but not covered!!!   lolol

[keystonejenks]

Coming from a claims adjuster...neither...intentional act, not that it's not justified, but not covered!!!   lolol

DAMNIT!!!!  

[davenay67]

My '93 Gixxer 750 had one, and it was the cause of some reluctant starting until I tracked down the issue. I think most bikes have a clutch switch these days, and these are usually the crappiest little things you have ever seen.

I really like all the suggestions from the guys in reference to a loose connection somewhere, as that would explain the randomness of the problem. If it were me, I would go over all of the connections one by one, clean the, cover them in Di-Electric grease and then tighten them down again....

Dave.

Clutch switch huh? I haven't seen those before.  Who all has those?  (another possible switch in the list).

[roughcut]

If it only is a hot engine problem, I would look at the ignition pick up coil. These can be very hard to diagnose, and very easy to fix. I would also look at the started button on the handle bar for signs of arching, or dirty contact. Generally the most aggrivating situatiions are not major problems but small devises in a more complex system. Like dealing with the goverment on an issue, take a breath and go after the problem a simple approach.

[Snowbird]

First three things I'd think about HARD would be ignition key switch, sidestand switch, kill switch and ignition key switch in that order.  The vibration in the back of the truck may jiggle whatever's loose in there enough to make contact again.  Since it doesn't die out while riding, I'd put my money on the ignition key switch mostly, but it could be the others.  Voltmeter at the starter would be a big help proving lack of juice there (rather than bad starter or solenoid).

Kick starts/ roll starts sure were a nice back up method...

Yes, and I'd replace and toss any fuses that might be invovled as well.

[DNA]

Is it still for sale?  They don't like that.
I think Triumphs are a vengeful breed in general.  I know mine is.

[keystonejenks]

Is it still for sale?  They don't like that.
I think Triumphs are a vengeful breed in general.  I know mine is.

Yes, it is still for sale but I wouldn't feel comfortable selling it to anybody at this point (thus why I haven't bumped the thread). Maybe I should take it down and all will be fine.  

[DJRenton]

I went through this same problem with my '97 Speed Triple - twice.

The first time, it was the crank sensor - not sure what that is, but I think it is some bit inside the engine related to turnover (duh).  Once replaced under warranty, I experienced no starting problems......for a couple of years.

Then a similar problem reared its head last summer - again, the same way you describe:  totally intermittent, independent of hot or cold engine, but tended not to work when you were the only person around or needed to get somewhere in a hurry.  Invite a buddy over for a beer, explain the problem, and go to start it up and you'd never have a problem.

It turns out this was caused by a completely corroded starter switch.  Apparently I was not careful enough when washing the bike over the 6 years that I owned it.  Dealer replaced and it started 100% of the time.

I'd recommend having your dealer check those two things next time you've got it in for service.  Hopefully that'll clear it up and you'll be able to sell the bike with a clear concience (like I did).

[keystonejenks]

Then just trade it in at CAT and let them deal with it!  No reason for you to "make it right" before dumping it.  

   Speed Triple.  Speed Triple.  Speed Triple.  Speed Triple.  S3.  Speedie.  Speed Triple. Speed Triple. Speed Triple.

Hey, stop that. I need no encouragement!  

[Playinthestreet]

I went through this same problem with my '97 Speed Triple - twice.

The first time, it was the crank sensor - not sure what that is, but I think it is some bit inside the engine related to turnover (duh).  Once replaced under warranty, I experienced no starting problems......for a couple of years./quote]

Had that crank sensor problem on my 99ST too!  Had forgotten about that.  Basically.. there's a rotor on the crank that "triggers" the ignition.   My rotor came loose, wore the locating hole and ultimately got far enough out of time to leave me along side the highway.  Didn't realize how much my performance had deteriorated as the wear took place over a long period of time.  (guess I thought I had become a better rider )

[bluedogok]

Hey, stop that. I need no encouragement!  

I hear the same thing about a new Tiger, especially since I went down on the Sprint.

[keystonejenks]

BIKE UPDATE!!!!!

Well, I got a call from the dealership today and my bike is done. Here is what they found wrong with my bike - ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!!!!!!  

They checked all the grounds, just like I did before I took it in. They checked all the switches, etc... NOTHING! The bike started for them fine every damn time they went to start it and EVERYTHING CHECKED OUT!!

This bike is so gone!

[DNA]

Sell it - sell it now!

[Rincewind]

That's disappointing.  Did they replace anything, like switches or wiring harnesses?

 

[keystonejenks]

That's disappointing.  Did they replace anything, like switches or wiring harnesses?

 

They went into it thinking they might have to replace the wiring harness; but like I said, everything checked out as fine. EVERYTHING!

[DNA]

If all is fine, ask them if they would buy it then.

[Rincewind]

This bike is so gone!

I wonder if he'll be able to trust another Triumph?    

Sounds like this problem could've happened to any brand...

[keystonejenks]

I wonder if he'll be able to trust another Triumph?    

Sounds like this problem could've happened to any brand...

Yes, it could have. I still trust Triumph. That's why the Speed Triple is still on my short list.

[B-rent]

Are you still having this issue with your Daytona Keystonejenks? Were you able to find out what was wrong?

[keystonejenks]

Are you still having this issue with your Daytona Keystonejenks? Were you able to find out what was wrong?

I picked the bike up Saturday and all seems well. We've reconnected. We even spent some quality time together today on my commute to work (75+ miles one way). So, we'll see.

When I was at the dealership Saturday I discussed a trade with them (what they would give me if I traded the bike in for a Speed Triple). They we're willing to give me $5000 for trade which tells me they're confindent that all is well.

[forester]

I picked the bike up Saturday and all seems well. We've reconnected. We even spent some quality time together today on my commute to work (75+ miles one way). So, we'll see.

When I was at the dealership Saturday I discussed a trade with them (what they would give me if I traded the bike in for a Speed Triple). They we're willing to give me $5000 for trade which tells me they're confindent that all is well.

If I were you keystone, I would jump on that trade so fast that it would make their triumph caps spin around on their heads.  

[DNA]

 If I were you keystone, I would jump on that trade so fast that it would make their triumph caps spin around on their heads.  

+100

[keystonejenks]

 If I were you keystone, I would jump on that trade so fast that it would make their triumph caps spin around on their heads.  

I told my wife about the deal. She said, "Well, if that's what you want to do."  

Then, I see Triumph is offering $600 in accessories on new Speed Triple purchases.

[BradleyRas]

   Sounds like fun, smashing a Daytona to bits.  I'm there for you if you need help - I can bring my own sledge.    

I went to a 'Biker Party' once where the pirates lined up and paid $5 to whack a sportbike (canotuna) with a sledge hammer 10x.  It was quite entertaining to watch.

I got the last laugh when at the end of the day when I went to leave, I watched several pirates try repeatedly to start their paint shakers with no results.... I just pushed the start button and left with a smile from ear to ear thinking they should have saved the canotuna to get home on..

Sorry to hear about your problem KJ, I hope it all gets resolved.

[livetoride]

Okay, some of you already know the story but for those that don't here is a brief overview. Since October of last year I've been having intermittent starting problems. There is an electrical gremlin in there somewhere.

Anyway, when this problem first came up on my way home from Ohio in October, I took it to the dealer the next day. They didn't find anything. The tech (Bill) even rode the bike home everyday for a week to try and get the bike to duplicate the problem - nothing.

The bike acted fine the next few times out and then, it left me stranded for HOURS at a meeting place where I was suppose to go for a group ride. When my wife arrives on the scene to help me load my bike (7 hours later) the bike all of a sudden decides to start!!   It was back to business as usual.

Fast forward a few months (bike is acting fine) - I'm supposed to go on my second big ride of the season. The bike WILL NOT START - it won't even crank.  

I thought, maybe it was a bad battery so I replaced it - nothing. I double check all the fuses - nothing. I check all the wiring - nothing. So the bike is in pieces and I'm defeated so yesterday I drop it back off at the dealer. I pull into the dealer and Bill sees the bike strapped to the back of the truck - "Still?" is what he said right before he sighed.

The bike has not started in OVER a month so we roll it off the back of the truck. Bill turns the key and it fires right up!!!!! IT STARTED RIGHT UP WITH NO HESITATION!!! NONE!!!!  DIDN'T EVEN HESITATE!!!!    

I turned to him and say, "You've got to be shitting me. Hey, do you have a sledge hammer back here so I can smash my bike to bits?"  

He smiles and says, "We'll solve this, let's not be drastic."

Hopefully they fix this problem because if they don't - I'm pushing this ***** bike off a cliff OR running over it with my father-in-laws truck!!!

I had a similar issue with my old 66' chevelle. It had a bad ignition switch. Perhaps you should have a new key and ignition installed, maybe there is a short in the switch? Next time it won't start remove the key, re-insert, turn it harder, and try again.
-Peter

[Gaolee]

I told my wife about the deal. She said, "Well, if that's what you want to do."  

Then, I see Triumph is offering $600 in accessories on new Speed Triple purchases.

Your wife is a truly wise woman!  What color of Speed Triple will you be taking home?

[keystonejenks]

Your wife is a truly wise woman!  What color of Speed Triple will you be taking home?

   They have a white one which I really like but I'm not sure how the white color would hold up. They have a black one also but I really wish they made the blue this year. That was my favorite color. Or is that colour?

[bizarro]

Hey, stop that. I need no encouragement!  

Yes you do, you keep talking about Aprilias or some such nonesense.

[bizarro]

I told my wife about the deal. She said, "Well, if that's what you want to do."  

Then, I see Triumph is offering $600 in accessories on new Speed Triple purchases.

Well there you go. What more incentive could you possibly need?  

[keystonejenks]

Yes you do, you keep talking about Aprilias or some such nonesense.

I don't know. Have you read my last reply?  

[Charlie7]

My 2005 Sprint was doing the exact same thing.  Turned out for me it was the starter solenoid.  It is that round bit mounted next to the battery that has the positive and negative leads of the battery connected to it.  When my bike would start, I noticed there would be a loud "click" from the solenoid just before the engine cranked over.  It sounded like a relay or something was sticking in there.

Try this, but don't be a girl, as there will be sparks.  Take a crescent wrench or similar metal object and quickly and deliberately span the positive and negative leads to the solenoid.  There will be some sparking.  If the bike cranks up and starts, you have found the problem.  If not, it is something else.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

[keystonejenks]

Try this, but don't be a girl, as there will be sparks....

Charlie