Feedback on Lightning Long and Ulysses, Please

[Clive]

I've been doing some research and some searching here, but I haven't seen clear information, so ...  I'm contemplating replacement of my Triumph Sprint ST with either a Buell Lightning XB12Ss (Long) or Ulysses XB12X, both 2007 models.  I've read the glossy reviews, devoured the Buell website information, etc.  What I'd really like to know are:

(a) the things you LOVE about either of these models: be it handling, ergonomics, ease of maintenance, a tractable engine, and so on; and

(b) the things you DISLIKE about these bikes: the niggles, the things you change out for more than cosmetic reasons, the things you wish Buell would fix at the factory, the hiccups that you ran into and/or wished you'd known about before you bought.

If it helps, I'm 6'1", my lower back no longer seems to like the leaned-forward riding position, and my riding is mostly commuting and half-day rides with the all-too-rare weekender thrown in.

Thanks in advance!

[Asphalt_Carver]

I think that I am somewhat of a unique position to you because I previously owned a V-Strom 1000 and did not choose a Ulysses because they are too similar in purpose.  Instead, I purchased a 2006 Lightning Long and could not have been happier.

Things I like about the bike:

The position is extremely comfortable.  I have done 4+ hours, only stop for fuel, with no concerns.

The handling is phenomenal.  Pure sport bike responsiveness without low back or neck pain.

Good gas of averaging 42 even when pushing the pace.

No maintenance issues whatsoever!  Buell is has DRAMATICALLY improved their build quality.

Fast enough for spirited runs up to 115mph but not more to tempt you into something really crazy.

You don't see me on every ride.

Belt drive rocks my world!!!!

Things I don't like about the bike:

You have to get used to wind blast.  It is a naked bike after all and 90mph is a little rough after awhile.

The stock mirrors absolutely suck.  I switched over to bar end mirrors with 1000% improvement.

Hard to find a good dealer and I was lucky to find one even though it is 62 miles away.

That's it!  The bike just flat out kicks ass in the twisties and is comfortable to and from getting there.  It looks beautiful, in my view, and has been more reliable than any of my japanese bikes.  In fact, I see my next bike being a Buell as well.    

[Rogue]

Well, since none of the Lighting/Ully owners have chimed in, I'll chip in my 2 cents.  Remember though, I don't own either model.  I do have a Firebolt and a VFR800.

I love the handling.  I would not have gotten the bike if I didn't.  
I love the motor.  Very different from an inline 4/triple/V4.  Very, very torquey.  
I love the looks.  Fell in love the first time I saw it.
I love the ease of maintenance.  No valve inspection.  No chain maintenance and replacement.  
I love the low wet weight.  Only 460 lbs wet.

I don't like the range - 120-130 miles to reserve.  This of course will be diff in the Lightning Ss and Ully.  
I don't like the headlight strength.  Buell could have updated these easily with stronger lighting.  
I wish the bike had a more VFR-like riding position.  
I wish Buell made the center of the frame narrower.  Right now, I can't flat foot the bike because it has a wide center section, forcing me to spread eagle when I put my feet down.
More top end power would be nice-I'm a speed junky.  I think the top end of the VFR is perfect.  The Firebolt easily trashes the VFR on torque alone.  But the top end of the VFR with the Firebolt's torque would be ideal.  So another 10 more rwhp would be my cup of tea.    
I wish Buell would have put an adjustable clutch lever.  Or one that has a lever closer to the bar.
I wish Buell would have put DUAL outlet exhaust.  It just looks right on a bike like this.
I wish Buell would have put a larger chin spoiler.  Again, just aesthetics.

[roadrailer]

I've never ridden a Lightning, so I can only comment on the Uly.

Likes

Handling: In a word, wow. Handles like a sportbike without the punishing ride on less-than-perfect roads.

Comfort: This is why I bought the Uly. Lots of room for both rider and pillion. I hardly even feel my wife back there. IMO, the best stock seat in the business (haven't tried the 07 yet). 400-mile days are a breeze. Wind protection is decent for a naked bike, especially with the addition of an aftermarket screen.

Power: I rarely go WOT and can count the number of times I've gone over 100 mph on one hand, so I might not be the best person to answer this question. I can say that the engine provides more than enough power for street riding, even two-up. I've never been in a situation where I needed more.

Belt Drive: No cleaning, no lubing, no adjusting. I'll never go back to a chain.

12v outlets: Very convenient. GPSs, radar detectors, cell phones, air pumps and the like can be plugged right in without special plugs or wiring.


Dislikes (there's not many)

Headlights: The lighting is, IMO, dangerously poor. Plan on adding driving lights if you do any night riding.

Grips: Too thin for my tastes. The Buell Traction grips solved the problem.

Gauges: Can be hard to read at a glance. A minor issue, and you do adjust. I wish it had a second LCD screen, so I didn't have to cycle through all the functions just to tell the time. Again, minor.

Uh, I think that's it. It really is a great bike.

[Asphalt_Carver]

Rogue,

"Since NONE of the Lightning owners have have chimed in?"

Notice how your post is AFTER mine!  Hah!

[Rogue]

 

Just when I hit post, it said someone else had just posted a message.  Oops!  

[1KPerDay]

You might want to add the new SuperTT to your list... my friends who have ridden all of the above have liked the TT the best for some reason. Lots of motomags agree FWIW.

Too bad it's ugly... but that's an easy fix.

[Clive]

I don't like the headlight strength.  Buell could have updated these easily with stronger lighting.

Headlights: The lighting is, IMO, dangerously poor. Plan on adding driving lights if you do any night riding.

Hmmm ... that's actually one of the things that very problematic on my Sprint.  The headlight reflectors have a hard horizontal cutoff, which totally blows when you lean the bike into a curve at night and can't see through the curve.  At all.  I put in Osram bulbs (like the Philips Plus-50 units), which increased overall illumination but can't do anything for the reflector design.

Rogue, do you think stronger bulbs would fix things, or is it WHERE the light is being projected?

Roadrailer, can you follow up with more specifics re: your lighting quibble?

And thanks to all for the information!  Very helpful.

[Nny]

I don't have one either, but if I were you I'd go down and get a test ride on one.  Right now they have a promotion where they're giving away messenger bags with every test ride of a Uly.  I'm going to try to get down there sometime this week to ride a Ulysess myself.  I test rode a regular Lightning 1200 a while back and it was great..  Kinda weird having the whole bike wiggle at a stoplight though.  

[roadrailer]

Hmmm ... that's actually one of the things that very problematic on my Sprint.  The headlight reflectors have a hard horizontal cutoff, which totally blows when you lean the bike into a curve at night and can't see through the curve.  At all.  I put in Osram bulbs (like the Philips Plus-50 units), which increased overall illumination but can't do anything for the reflector design.

Rogue, do you think stronger bulbs would fix things, or is it WHERE the light is being projected?

Roadrailer, can you follow up with more specifics re: your lighting quibble?

And thanks to all for the information!  Very helpful.

The headlight produces a weak spot of light. Silverstars just made the spot a little bit brighter. I think it's the reflector design that really needs tweaking.

[Asphalt_Carver]

Nny,

Don't you know that Buells double as paint mixers when idling?  

No more of that kind of slanderous backtalk from you!    After all, you did have the courage to take a beautiful Ducati onto muddy roads.  Now, that is just wrong.  

[Rogue]

Rogue, do you think stronger bulbs would fix things, or is it WHERE the light is being projected?

The light on my Firebolt has a horizontal cut off at the top as well.  I have thought about replacing the bulb on my headlights but I haven't done so.  I expect the brightness to improve but the horizontal cut off will remain.  

BTW, the Firebolt's headlight is smaller (H3 I think) than the Lightning headlights.  The L's have a much larger lens and is easily seen from a distance.  Mine is much smaller and is harder to see.

Some owners in Bad Weather Bikers, the quentessential Buell website, replaced their headlights altogether with aftermarket Hella units which are much better, brighter, and larger.  Unfortunately, I don't have the link to show you this right now.  But from what I remember, they looked realy good, didn't butcher the bike, and their owners were very happy with this mod.

[Nny]

I was sitting next to Rogue at the light watching you sneak off between the cagers and I could just feel the impatient little bike quivering with anticipation wanting to run off after you.  

Seriously though, I loved the Lightning and the only reason I didn't take one home was because I couldn't afford one.  

[Clive]

The light on my Firebolt has a horizontal cut off at the top as well.  I have thought about replacing the bulb on my headlights but I haven't done so.  I expect the brightness to improve but the horizontal cut off will remain.  

BTW, the Firebolt's headlight is smaller (H3 I think) than the Lightning headlights.  The L's have a much larger lens and is easily seen from a distance.  Mine is much smaller and is harder to see.

Some owners in Bad Weather Bikers, the quintessential Buell website, replaced their headlights altogether with aftermarket Hella units which are much better, brighter, and larger.  Unfortunately, I don't have the link to show you this right now.  But from what I remember, they looked realy good, didn't butcher the bike, and their owners were very happy with this mod.

Thanks for the feedback.  I've seen the BadWeatherBiker site mentioned in other threads here, and I've checked them out only a little so far.  Odd-looking site, but it seems pretty good for content.

The Sprint ST lighting is one of the more talked-about flaws on the Triumph boards, and replacement with a HID setup has been done by some.  It's not an easy mod, nor a cheap one.  That'll teach me for buying a bike with a headlight assembly integrated into the fairing!  But swapping over to a non-HID assembly might not be so onerous, especially on the relatively open nose of the Lightning/Ulysses.  Hmmm ...

[Nny]

Something like these might work...

[Rogue]

I was sitting next to Rogue at the light watching you sneak off between the cagers and I could just feel the impatient little bike quivering with anticipation wanting to run off after you.  

Me impatient?  Never!  The bike WAS quivering though that's for sure!  

Honestly, Asphalt_Carver and myself had gone through downtown Monterey, then back to the Mall once before and had to deal with slow, stop and go traffic before we met you guys for lunch.  So, suffice it to say, we were not inclined to sit behind slow cagers after that!  

Monterey has gotten more crowded as the years go by.  

[Rogue]

The Sprint ST lighting is one of the more talked-about flaws on the Triumph boards, and replacement with a HID setup has been done by some.  It's not an easy mod, nor a cheap one.  That'll teach me for buying a bike with a headlight assembly integrated into the fairing!  But swapping over to a non-HID assembly might not be so onerous, especially on the relatively open nose of the Lightning/Ulysses.  Hmmm ...

The Hella headlight replacement I saw at BWB simply replaced the whole headlights.  The Hella's are about 10% larger but they looked real good on the Lightning.  If I find that link with pics at BWB, I will post it up here.

[scott-sts]

I don't own either choices but based upon what I read, the Uly and Lightning Long are two of the best from Buell.

[Mastros2]

WellHeeled, any decision yet?

[OldSalt]

FWIW, I have ridden Rogue's Firebot, TheCloser's LL and taken a test (twice actually) on a Uly.  Here is my opinion on the three of the them.

Firebolt - WOOHOO!  I couldn't ride this bike for more than 30 miles or my back would ache and my hands would be numb but what fun that thirty miles would be.  It handles like it's on a rail and the lean angle that it can achieve is just phenominal.  I carry quite a bit speed into corners and occasionally I enter a little hot, the Firebolt handles this with rare good grace and simply always you heel it over farther and turn a faux pas into a butt clenching twisty.  I won't comment on the motor since they are same except to say that the low end torque makes you    Same goes for the brakes on all three models, WOW!

LL - This bike is more more style. The more relaxed riding position takes pity on the back and the handling is fun fun fun.  The problem I had with was resisting the temptation to loft front wheel (I promised I wouldn't and I didn't, but I really wanted to)  I didn't experience the windblast but then again I was railing through some rather tight twisties.  In short, this is an excellent weekend bike but since I commute 130 miles a day this wouldn't be my first choice for a primary motorcyle.

Uly - This is it for me!  The ergo's are perfect.  Granted the rides were on the short side but since the Manager who led me loft his front tire upon leaving the dealership I felt obliged to follow suit.    To me this bikes screams "Ride me all day long" and then when you get tired it yells "Don't stop you wuss, keep going!"  I must have a thing for "comfortable" bikes.  I do occasionally like to goof off a bit and play the role of the hooligan and this bike fits me to the T.  I also like the fact it has an optional taller windscreen, that it can carry the factory hard cases or be fitted with soft for those longer trips.  

TT - I didn't get to test ride one these before I deployed but when I return home I'll make sure to give one a whirl just to see if it isn't the "perfect fit" for me.

  I have made up my mind that when I return home I'll be venturing down to the dealer and buying a Uly.  Maybe part of the attraction is that I grew up on dirt bikes and the tall saddle makes me feel more at home. In any case that's my $.02.

[Clive]

WellHeeled, any decision yet?

Still agonizing.  I've been back to the huge HD/Buell dealership, under the guide of taking my young son on a "manly man" outing together.  I've tried to resolve to keep the Sprint and just invest in fixes for the lighting and abrupt off-idle ... but then an image of the Lightning Long or Ulysses pops into my head, and I'm off and daydreaming again.  And visiting this Buell forum every day doesn't help matters, either.  

The lack of hard/securable cases (for the XBSs, at least) is a definite negative.  I used to be bike-only for several years, and I really enjoy leaving the car at home every possible chance in favor of the motorcycle.  Having a lockable top case or side cases makes it really convenient to stash a helmet, get a purchase home, transport two cases of beer from store to rally site ... you get the idea.

I ought to get my Triumph spiffed up and listed somewhere -- if it won't sell, there's no Buell in my immediate future.

[Pragmatic]

The lack of hard/securable cases (for the XBSs, at least) is a definite negative.  I used to be bike-only for several years, and I really enjoy leaving the car at home every possible chance in favor of the motorcycle.  Having a lockable top case or side cases makes it really convenient to stash a helmet, get a purchase home, transport two cases of beer from store to rally site ... you get the idea.

Has anyone tried these

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/3699/473/

and does anyone know if they can be modified to work with Givi cases?

[Mastros2]

I haven't yet but will be purchasing the case and mounts if I pick up an xb.

Check www.advrider.com,  the members usually know what cases would match what mounts.

[dgunther]

Has anyone tried these

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/3699/473/

and does anyone know if they can be modified to work with Givi cases?

I don't think they will work without some serious modification.  The H&B bags have a pretty different mounting system than the Givi bags.  You might be able to cobble something together with using the SW Motech Givi adapter plates.  

[Pragmatic]

I don't think they will work without some serious modification.

I'll wait for Givi.  I have Givis on the Bandit and hoped to use occasionally them when I get the Lightning

[Mastros2]

Can't beat that!  Exchange the panniers when riding the other bike.  I guess it's the best of both worlds and you save money too!

[Clive]

Inching closer ...  


I went by my Triumph dealership this past weekend, and they had a 2007 Ulysses they'd taken in trade!  Full luggage setup, too!  So I get to talking a sales guy (after I'd wandered through and sat on a bunch of different Triumphs, BMWs, and Ducatis).  He tells me, all conspiratorial-like, that the front brake on the Buell is a known problem.  Something about this month's issue of Motorcyclist saying that it delivers all the torque to the left fork because of how it's affixed to the rim.

I ask how that'd be any different from all the Bonnevilles inside that have single front rotor systems.  He had no answer, but nonetheless steered me away from the Ulysses.  And, oddly, not toward any bike in particular, although he did say something complimentary about the F800ST demo bike I'd just sat on before the Buell.

I have read absolutely nothing about any Buell front-brake liability or front suspension failures.  I thought I'd turn to my fake Internet friends, though, and give you a good laugh, if nothing else.

[AusTexBueller]

That is the biggest pile of horse manure I have ever heard.    There have been zero issues with the ZTL brake system AFAIK.    Reliability on some of the older tube frame Buells (from what I read) sure, but that for the most part has been taken care of.  That he was not able to give you a straight answer should tip you off.  Sorry but if that's the type of salesperson you're dealing with I'd shop somewhere else.  I was always told a good salesman shouldn't have to trash someone else's product to make a sale.

[Mastros2]

That was just a sales guy steering you away from a sale I guess.  I don't know why really.  If he was selling shower curtains or motorcycles, it still is a sale.

I have a tuber and front brakes have been reliable, weaker than the ZTL but none the less reliable.  I have demoed the XB's (CityX, TT, and Uly) and really like the front brakes.

The back brake on my tuber is for looks only, IMO!  

[Clive]

That was just a sales guy steering you away from a sale I guess.  I don't know why really.  If he was selling shower curtains or motorcycles, it still is a sale.

Well, the dealer keeps its webpage of used bikes very up-to-date, and the Ulysses as gone as of Monday afternoon.  My guess is he either wanted the bike for himself or had a sure-thing buyer coming (maybe a friend, I don't know) and didn't want me in the way.

Oh well.  It's not like I can buy until my bike sells, anyway.

[Kootenanny]

...He tells me, all conspiratorial-like, that the front brake on the Buell is a known problem.  Something about this month's issue of Motorcyclist saying that it delivers all the torque to the left fork because of how it's affixed to the rim.

Somehow, I'm more inclined to believe Erik Buell knows how to design a braking system than your salesman (or the journos writing for Motorcyclist for that matter).  And my personal experience includes a good number of stoppies (some performed at speed under emergency conditions), without ever noticing any problem with the front brake due to it's one sided mounting--or anything else (and BTW, it's attached to the right fork).

As you mentioned, there are many other bikes out there with single-side braking on the front.  These systems do not cause any difficulties--in fact, they solve some.