Target fixation, target fixation, target fixation!!!!

[GooseMan]

So I'm a complete n00b...took my "MSF" course (well, its a similar course that is MANDATORY here in Quebec...so lets just call it the MSF course) last month, got my learners permit etc...

I've only taken my Bandit out twice since I got my permit last week (law requires me to ride alongside a more experienced rider...I cannot ride alone). So far, I think I'm doing OK, but I can see what people mean now by target fixation! I'm cool when there are curves on a flat surface, with no obstructions or distractions, but for instance, going on a highway onramp, where there are walls on both sides, I tend to look at the wall....which isnt good!   I guess I look at it because I dont WANT to hit it...but that is the WRONG thing to do! And its hard for me to look far ahead if theres a wall in the way (or trees, buildings etc).

So where am I supposed to look during blind curves? I really dont want to get into the habit of target fixation....

[1moreroad]

Try looking at the vanishing point, the farthest point up the road you can see.  From the description, it sounds like you're not looking far enough ahead and reacting to stuff that is too close for you to compensate for anyway.

BIKE (UK) mag will occasionally run articles about this.  In a nutshell, if the vanishing point is moving away from you, slow down because the curve is getting tighter.  If it is holding steady, hold throttle.  If it is moving towards you, get on the throttle because the curve is opening up.

Of course, don't lock in on the vanishing point, either.  When there aren't walls/obstructions, remind yourself and practice scanning.  You can scan in a pattern to start but random is best -- move your eyes a lot and your head a little to keep looking around at your situation.

Finally practice a Wide Field of View or whatever Keith Code calls it.  MSF calls is High Visual Horizon, I think.  Basically, keep your head up (not looking down at the pavement or at a close obstacle) and force yourself to pay attention to your peripheral vision as well as what's directly in front of you.  A full face helmet may help -- try to be aware of the edges of your shield.

[GooseMan]

Hmm...interesting, I will try that! Its like, I KNOW that I have to look far ahead...but sometimes, it just doesnt happen...and I'm looking at the ground, or the wall etc...  

I'm trying to teach myself in my car  

[bubba zanetti]

Hmm...interesting, I will try that! Its like, I KNOW that I have to look far ahead...but sometimes, it just doesnt happen...and I'm looking at the ground, or the wall etc...  

I'm trying to teach myself in my car  

Look to the limit of your vision as far down the road as you can see and at the same time "see" the road and immediate surroundings in your peripheral vision. At first this is a bit tiring as it takes concentration, but later it becomes natural and effortless. You  are focusing down the road but will be aware of your lane position and things immediately in front of you. Don't forget to scan when you are in traffic.

You have a great attitude and are into learning. This bodes well for your riding future !!!  

[MidLifeMike]

I know the kind of ramp you are talking about, ie. there is no horizon, you're walled in.
I pick a point about 3 seconds ahead that will pull me through the curve instead of looking straight ahead of where the bike is pointed at any instant. The target is constantly going to change so I pick a point, pick a point, pick a point, pulling my focus through the turn until I see the horizon again.
If I can't find a visible spot 3 seconds ahead, personally I feel I may be going too fast for the situation.

[Busy Little Whiner]

1moreroad gave some excellent advice... some riders in our group don't mind attacking blind corners while  
others take a more wait and see approach... basically we all kind of mentally floss our way around... head
and eyes up... small steering corrections... brake covered... escape route planned... watching the ever
changing vanishing point for trouble... and so after 44 years worth of riding I'm still perfecting blind corners...  

[GooseMan]

You have a great attitude and are into learning. This bodes well for your riding future !!!  

Thank you! I am FULLY aware of the dangers of this sport, and really want to do everything correctly. Take my time and get things right.

I also prefer this forum for advice, rather than the other squidly sportbike stunter forums   You guys are obviously more mature (so far!   ) and are into the type of riding I would like to get into.

Thanks everyone! Now I wish I could just get out and practice more!  

[county]

So where am I supposed to look during blind curves? I really dont want to get into the habit of target fixation....

What i do is close my eyes for brief periods.  Usually I can see more when I open them.  If not, I close them again. Plus you wanna roll your eyes around while closed so you aren't looking at the same thing when you open them.

Nobody ever hadda problem with target fixation when their eyes were closed.  Ever.

They don't teach this stuff in the classroom, it's something us experienced riders develop.

[kam]

I'm trying to teach myself in my car  

That is a very good start.  Try imagining you're riding whenever you drive your car.  Now how often do you really see someone turn their head in a car and check their blind spot???  If they do, the probably ride.  

[GooseMan]

I try to pretend I'm on a bike as much as I can while driving my car. Staying out of peoples blind spots, trying to pretend people dont see me (well, even in a friggin CAR, they still dont see me!) and predicting traffic. Actually, I just do this naturally....Montreal is FULL of idiot drivers. I've been driving for 12 years now...so I'm happy to say that I think I have a firm grasp on how to drive in traffic etc... Still, its WAY different on a bike...but at least I have that experience.

[aglio]

i actually went to a BMW (cars) performance driving class before I got my first street bike.  One of the main things they hammered into your head while on the track was to keep your head up and don't fixate on things right in front of you.  Also overheard all day long was "LOOK THROUGH THE CURVE!!!"

It became second nature...keeping my head up, knowing what was coming and planning for a big bendy at the critical points in a car made me a better auto driver...then I took my MSF course, and the guys there were preaching the same story.  

My point, is that the premise is the same.  Fixating on something close to you is the wrong method...looking ahead, looking through the curve and realizing what is there before it's even close enough for you to fixate on is key.  You can stare at a pothole all you want when it's about to knock you off your bike...seeing it before and avoiding it is the right thing to do.

BIKE (UK) mag will occasionally run articles about this.  In a nutshell, if the vanishing point is moving away from you, slow down because the curve is getting tighter.  If it is holding steady, hold throttle.  If it is moving towards you, get on the throttle because the curve is opening up.

never heard it put like that before...LOVE IT, will definitely place that tidbit in my head.

[Fun Dog]

Try looking at the vanishing point, the farthest point up the road you can see.  From the description, it sounds like you're not looking far enough ahead and reacting to stuff that is too close for you to compensate for anyway.

BIKE (UK) mag will occasionally run articles about this.  In a nutshell, if the vanishing point is moving away from you, slow down because the curve is getting tighter.  If it is holding steady, hold throttle.  If it is moving towards you, get on the throttle because the curve is opening up.

Of course, don't lock in on the vanishing point, either.  When there aren't walls/obstructions, remind yourself and practice scanning.  You can scan in a pattern to start but random is best -- move your eyes a lot and your head a little to keep looking around at your situation.

Finally practice a Wide Field of View or whatever Keith Code calls it.  MSF calls is High Visual Horizon, I think.  Basically, keep your head up (not looking down at the pavement or at a close obstacle) and force yourself to pay attention to your peripheral vision as well as what's directly in front of you.  A full face helmet may help -- try to be aware of the edges of your shield.

This is an excellent reference, but it's backwards as stated.  When the vanishing point is moving towards you, the curve is tightening up and you need to slow down.  When the vanishing point is moving away from you, the curve is opening up and you can roll on the throttle a little more.

[keithwinlouisiana]

Fun Dog is right... I also think it was stated backwards originally.

[1moreroad]

Don't know where my last post went.

We may be visualizing it differently.

If the road is moving from a corner back towards center (towards you), then the road is opening up and you can get on the gas.

If you are in a left corner and the vanishing point appears to move farther left (away from you), then the road is tightening up and you should get off the gas.

If you are in a right corner and the vanishing point appears to move farther right (away from you), then the road is tightening up and you should get off the gas.

[Corbeau]

Did someone say "target fixation"?

This is a fine example of what not to do:

[GooseMan]

Hahahha...nice pic!  

Well, just had a little ride to the local "bike night" (big sportbike gathering). Actually, a nice V-Strom showed up and a fully panniered up BMW GS1150 Adverture too! I was more interested in these bikes than the sportbikes to be honest.  

On the way home, I had to go on the highway and do a few on/off ramps..yes, big up/down curves with WALLS! I stuck it in my head to LOOK THRU THE TURN!!! I still looked at the wall ever so slightly, but forced myself to look thru the turn, and it worked well Woohoo!

Also had my first semi-emergency brake experience. I was riding thru some back roads in the industrial area near my place (no traffic, open roads)...trying to go at a semi quick pace. Well, I was going maybe 40mph and I noticed a stop sign coming up. It wasnt really neccasary, seeing as how it was deserted, no cars around and only a T-instersection, but I told myself to pretend it was a panic situation (well, in the daytime, it would have been) so I made a nice panic stop. It was dusty, so I slid my rear tire...and to be honest, it didnt freak me out at all. Had a slight fishtail, didnt freak out, kept her straight, kept my cool. Good to know what it feels like  

[rselin]

Don't know where my last post went.

We may be visualizing it differently.

If the road is moving from a corner back towards center (towards you), then the road is opening up and you can get on the gas.

If you are in a left corner and the vanishing point appears to move farther left (away from you), then the road is tightening up and you should get off the gas.

If you are in a right corner and the vanishing point appears to move farther right (away from you), then the road is tightening up and you should get off the gas.

Uh no, at least as far as the towards you/away from you is concerned.  The rest of your description is correct and I have no doubt you understand the concept, but your use of towards you/away from you is wrong.  Every written description in authoritative media I have read uses toward you/away from you in reference to the apparent distance of the vanishing point from the rider.

If the vanishing point is directly in front of you, then its appearance is determined by the horizon and is the farthest possible distance it can be from you ie. it is away from you.  When the VP starts to move away from you get on the gas.

If the VP is on your extreme left or right, then its appearance is determined by either an obstruction that is relatively close or by visual pinching due to lack of camber in the road.  The vanishing point is relatively close to you at this point as it is not determined by the horizon.  If the vanishing point is moving toward you, then the corner is tightening up and you should react accordingly.

Try thinking of the vanishing point as a dot moving on a visual continuum and you cannot fail to realize that it does indeed move toward and away from you, but not as you have described.

Something to ponder - is there a vanishing point on a banked oval if the banking is high enough?

[Corbeau]

Speaking of the vanishing point, which author explains it best? Code, Ienatsch, Parks?

[1moreroad]

Uh no, at least as far as the towards you/away from you is concerned.  The rest of your description is correct and I have no doubt you understand the concept, but your use of towards you/away from you is wrong.  Every written description in authoritative media I have read uses toward you/away from you in reference to the apparent distance of the vanishing point from the rider.

Ah... the wonders of the internet.  A couple of hand gestures and this would all be sorted out.

Speaking of the vanishing point, which author explains it best? Code, Ienatsch, Parks?

Bike magazine.

[Thor]

All this talk of "vanishing point" has to be confusing, at best, to most people.  Don't ride faster than you can see goes a long way.  If you can't see very far, you should slow down.  If you can see far, you can speed up.

The reality is that no matter how long you have been riding you are going to look down, you are going to target fixate, you are not going to look through turns unless you continually make a conscious effort to do things.

Riding a motorcycle is a very unnatural thing for our body to do.  We are hardwired to be either vertical or horizontal.  Anything inbetween starts to set off alarms.  We are also hardwired to focus on perceived threats.  Knowing the "tricks" our minds will play on us is only part of the battle.  We have to continually remind ourselves to outsmart ourselves.  Head and eyes up, wide vision, etc...are all things that I have to remind myself to keep doing.  I've been riding on the street for 25 years.