Triumph Sprint ST vs. Duc ST3 vs. BMW K1200RS

[prshguy]

Would really appreciate some feedback/comparison from some of you who have ridden these bikes.  I bought a 2004 Sprint ST 2 years ago, a joy to ride but reluctantly had to let her go because the knees just got too sore after about 2 hours.  So, right now the two bikes catching my fancy are the ST3 and the K1200RS.  I really like the ST3 for its light weight and styling but am wondering if I'll just be repeating the same mistake as the Sprint.  Found an '04 for sale and since this is the first year of the ST3, were there issues to beware of?

Sat on a K1200RS the other day and it felt comfortable but looks wise doesn't quite light my fire like the ST3.

Thoughts?

[levine98]

I've owned both the Sprint ST (previous generation) and now a Duc ST3.

My .02 is they have very similar riding ergos. Of course you can do a lot to change erogs, such as modified seat, bar risers, suspension settings, rear geomotry settings (on the Duc's at least) etc...Both are far better than any sport bike with clip-ons (which is why I like them), but not as comfortable as a standard fitted out for touring.

I've ridden the BMW, but never owned it. Have not found it very comfortable--too heavy and a longer reach to the handlebar than works for me (I'm 5'10" and 175lb).

[st ryder]

Would really appreciate some feedback/comparison from some of you who have ridden these bikes.  I bought a 2004 Sprint ST 2 years ago, a joy to ride but reluctantly had to let her go because the knees just got too sore after about 2 hours.  So, right now the two bikes catching my fancy are the ST3 and the K1200RS.  I really like the ST3 for its light weight and styling but am wondering if I'll just be repeating the same mistake as the Sprint.  Found an '04 for sale and since this is the first year of the ST3, were there issues to beware of?

Sat on a K1200RS the other day and it felt comfortable but looks wise doesn't quite light my fire like the ST3.

Thoughts?

You are looking at two very different bikes between the beemer and the Ducati, not so much so between the Ducati and the ST. I would recommend doing A LOT(!) of research into BMW big bore K bikes, rs included. Some units have many problems, expensive ones at that. The only ST3 issues I can think of for the '04s were the exhaust rocker closer springs and ecu. Early models had to be called in for no charge warranty replacements, and later model were sorted out at the factory. IIRC the 04's have a dry clutch so you will get some rattling noise from that area, totally normal and somewhat desirable for some.

I owned a '03 FJR and my knees are much happier on my ST3, though the forward position is much more sporting on the Ducati. The 04 and later ST3 seat is perhaps the best stock seat in the industry, and for me, the stock screen provides NO buffeting, just a clean weight off wrists blast of wind around the neck/shoulders.

Good luck.

[prshguy]

With barbacks on the 04 Sprint I liked the ergos, but the old knees just couldn't take it, so moved on to the Concours but I've really got the itch for something newer and more refined.  The Duc is just plain sexy but I'm trying to keep my head on straight here and do my homework.  Can the pegs be dropped on the Duc?

[prshguy]

You are looking at two very different bikes between the beemer and the Ducati, not so much so between the Ducati and the ST. I would recommend doing A LOT(!) of research into BMW big bore K bikes, rs included. Some units have many problems, expensive ones at that. The only ST3 issues I can think of for the '04s were the exhaust rocker closer springs and ecu. Early models had to be called in for no charge warranty replacements, and later model were sorted out at the factory. IIRC the 04's have a dry clutch so you will get some rattling noise from that area, totally normal and somewhat desirable for some.

I owned a '03 FJR and my knees are much happier on my ST3, though the forward position is much more sporting on the Ducati. The 04 and later ST3 seat is perhaps the best stock seat in the industry, and for me, the stock screen provides NO buffeting, just a clean weight off wrists blast of wind around the neck/shoulders.

Good luck.

From what I've found so far, the K bikes had some rear end failures, and clutch problems if the tranny seal faild, are there more?

[st ryder]

From what I've found so far, the K bikes had some rear end failures, and clutch problems if the tranny seal faild, are there more?

Do your research, and include BMW threads at this site for comments from former owners. Look at BMW specific sites as well including these as examples:

http://www.k-bikes.com/forums/cmps_index.php?

http://www.bmwmoa.org/

Side case melting heat from exhaust can, telelever seals leaking, front brake pads evaporating, shift cam springs breaking, final drives and drive shafts premature wear and or catastrophic failures, (heard about one new k12Gt after less than 2500 miles!) excessive labour costs for routine maintenance re drive line spline lubes, etc. Do your research. BMW is NOT what most people think, IE they have an undeserved reputation for reliability. Don't be confused by high mileage "highway queens."  Could you find similar reliability issues with the '04 ST3? Not that I'm aware, but do your research into Ducati ST3 as well. Mine's been very dependable so far    though I'm sure some owners may have had problems, just not to BMW levels.

[prshguy]

st-ryder, two questions

Is the 05 ST3 significantly improved over the 04.  Heard they went to the oil bath clutch, anything else changed?

And how is the heat factor in stop and go.  This will be my daily bike and here in the summer it's typically mid to high 90s and low 100s.

Thanks.

[marc11]

Heat on the Duc ST is a non-issue.  

[prshguy]

Just talked to the dealer, the bike I'm looking at is due for its 6K service and said the heads have to be pulled to service the valves  , total estimate is a shade over $1K  .  Tell me this ain't so!  And apparently the next one is $1200.   I was all set to really want this bike but now.....

I'm pretty good with a wrench so I know I can do a lot of this myself but do the heads really need pulling, that is just lame.

[levine98]

st-ryder, two questions

Is the 05 ST3 significantly improved over the 04.  Heard they went to the oil bath clutch, anything else changed?

And how is the heat factor in stop and go.  This will be my daily bike and here in the summer it's typically mid to high 90s and low 100s.

Thanks.

Along with the wet clutch (2004 had the dry version) I think the 2005 ST3 also has an improved cold start system. The 2004 ST3 uses a manual choke. I've heard from my mechanic that the 2005 ST3 and beyond have a sensor based cold start idle mechanism.

[Mr. Squidward]

Just talked to the dealer, the bike I'm looking at is due for its 6K service and said the heads have to be pulled to service the valves  , total estimate is a shade over $1K  .  Tell me this ain't so!  And apparently the next one is $1200.   I was all set to really want this bike but now.....

I'm pretty good with a wrench so I know I can do a lot of this myself but do the heads really need pulling, that is just lame.

There is no need to pull the heads to adjust valves on the ST3 (or any Ducs that I know of).  $1000 for the 6k service seems a bit high to me (I paid $600 for the 6k on my ST4s) but prices do vary by region.  If you’re buying the bike from a dealer try to have them include the 6k in the deal.

The pegs on the STs are kind of high.  Though I’ve seen lowering plates on eBay that’s not a route I’d take.  You may want to try an extended test ride to see if it bothers your Knees.

[Squiggy]

Just talked to the dealer, the bike I'm looking at is due for its 6K service and said the heads have to be pulled to service the valves  , total estimate is a shade over $1K  .  Tell me this ain't so!  And apparently the next one is $1200.   I was all set to really want this bike but now.....

I'm pretty good with a wrench so I know I can do a lot of this myself but do the heads really need pulling, that is just lame.

Is the dealer Good Times on Auburn Blvd? They are a local Ducati dealer. I know they have two Ducati ST's in the back area.

They wanted $14000 for the 2004 model. Both are supposed to be low milage bikes.

[Vee2Win]

Wow, that is a pretty insane price for an '04.  Should be less than 10K

[st ryder]

st-ryder, two questions

Is the 05 ST3 significantly improved over the 04.  Heard they went to the oil bath clutch, anything else changed?

And how is the heat factor in stop and go.  This will be my daily bike and here in the summer it's typically mid to high 90s and low 100s.

Thanks.

The only major difference is the wet clutch. Whether that's an improvement depends on view point. The '06 and later models went to closed loop injection, and no dash electronic headlamp adjustment. The only heat factor is some heat under left thigh area from rear header pipe in very hot weather, but if you wear proper gear, it's not unbearable.

[st ryder]

Just talked to the dealer, the bike I'm looking at is due for its 6K service and said the heads have to be pulled to service the valves  , total estimate is a shade over $1K  .  Tell me this ain't so!  And apparently the next one is $1200.   I was all set to really want this bike but now.....

I'm pretty good with a wrench so I know I can do a lot of this myself but do the heads really need pulling, that is just lame.

The heads do not have to be removed to adjust the shims, or even inspect the rockers afaik. Shop around for service.

[st ryder]

Along with the wet clutch (2004 had the dry version) I think the 2005 ST3 also has an improved cold start system. The 2004 ST3 uses a manual choke. I've heard from my mechanic that the 2005 ST3 and beyond have a sensor based cold start idle mechanism.

There is no "choke", just a "manual" fast idle lever on my open loop efi '05 as well. '06 and later went to closed loop injection, but I don't know if that excludes a fast idle lever, though it usually does.

[levine98]

There is no "choke", just a "manual" fast idle lever on my open loop efi '05 as well. '06 and later went to closed loop injection, but I don't know if that excludes a fast idle lever, though it usually does.

Is there a difference in practice between the two? Also, how does a fast idle thingamajig work?

[prshguy]

Squiggy, yes, it was Good Times.  Went in and sat on on 06 on the floor, the pegs didn't seem too bad, just a little higher than the Concours I'm on now.  I think the price was $14K for the new 06.  They had a red ST3S next to it that I would love to have but don't think it's really in the budget.  Called Munroe Motors in the Bay Area and got a little better quote of $800 for the 6K service but that is still a good chunk on change.  I need to learn how to work on these things myself.

Did take a ride on a K1200RS and came away somewhat disappointed but it was not a very good example so may try another.  

[st ryder]

Is there a difference in practice between the two? Also, how does a fast idle thingamajig work?

There is no difference in practice between a true "choke" and a fast idle lever which AFAIK, is a cable that advances throttle position/plates like the grip but is unaffected by the return spring. My BMW has one too. The one on the ST3 has an "off label" use in that it can be used as a temporary cruise control at about 60 mph to give your right hand a break, though I'm sure this will stretch the cable if used too often for too long, and the one on the BMW can be cracked open a bit to reduce after fire in the exhaust can on decel. A true choke affects the a/f mixture by "choking" off the air, and there are enrichers too that are still called "chokes" that add fuel. Either one of those will carbon-up your cylinders faster if used too much, too long. I use my fast idle lever only partially to start the bike, *if* fairly cold/cool and only for a few seconds. Otherwise, it starts fine without it, as I don't like having the revs higher than 1400 on cold start-up due to oil needing a little time to get to the head on the vertical cylinder.

[timatwood]

If you have knee problems you should test ride a multistrada. Its essentially a sportbike/sporttourer with scads of legroom, even more than an R1150RT, but it still has lots of ground clearance. It has a pretty high seat, but I'm assuming you aren't very short since most short riders don't worry so much about high pegs on sportbikes.