$450 sleeping bag or $70 sleeping bag??? - Same Rating

[Squiggy]

I know that tecnically this post is Off Topic. But since it pertains the motorcycle camping and since we don't have a "Motorcycle Camping" category for it, I'm posting here. So here goes.
 
 
 
I was over at Campmor's web site looking to upgrade my REI +20F sleeping with something warmer for a potential motorcycle camping trip to Death Valley in late winter or early spring.
 
As of today (12/7) I was checking out the daily "Morning Report" for Death Valley National Park and the overnight temps are around 32F-42F degrees.
 
So I figure I would give myself a little bit more warmth range in the sleeping bag category. The temps will change, of course, when I plan on going, but I noticed what a huge price range there is for the same temperature rating for a given sleeping bag.
 
These next two examples will be the two extremes. Mountain Hardwear's Wraith bag costs $450, where Slumberjack's Esplanade costs just $70. There both rated for the same temp (-20F) but they have such a huge price difference.
 
Is one really better than the other?
 
 
 
Here's the page for the rest of Campmor's "Cold Weather Sleeping Bags"

[ViffrKlr]

If there's nothing wrong with your current bag, just add a fleece liner.
I was up on Mt. Rainier a couple years back, and I have a Slumberjack Farenheit 0° bag. With the fleece liner and a fleece hat I was toasty warm.
 
The Mtn Hardware is goose fill down 2lb 4 ozs of fill - total weight 4lbs 4 ozs-packed size 10x19
 
the Slumberjack has a synthetic insulation of 5 lbs 10 ozs with a total wt of 7 lbs 14 ozs
and a packed size of 12x20.
 
Down is always more expensive, doesn't insulate well when wet/damp, is lighter weight thus can be packed smaller. And to top it off, it's a major brand name.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Is one really better than the other?

In a word, Yes.

All of the text that went along with the Wraith all means something. They are the "little details" that makes the difference between surviving the night vs enjoying the night.

800-fill down - you don't get much better than that, either. I've seen the bags on this page http://store.mm411.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog&parent_id=255 and they are incredibly light, soft and very warm. They also stuff down to about the size of a football.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. If you intend to use this bag more than once, then shell out the bucks and do it right. You won't be sorry.

[license2ill]

A -20 bag will have you sweating in misery in anything but the arctic or the top of Everest.

Mountain Hardware makes some highly-rated stuff, and those bags are ultra-light for that rating.

I've been looking for a new bag too, and am thinking about a Big Agnes bag http://www.bigagnes.com . They seem to be roomier than most. I hate narrow mummies. They also uniquely leave the fill out of the bottom of the bag, instead adding a pocket for your pad. They make an air-filled pad that appears to be the most comfortable and portable option available. With the pad in the pocket, you can't roll off. The only limitation is sitting up in the bag with it zipped-up around you. Innovative design that cuts weight and compression space.

The other issues between expensive and cheap bags are often the moisture management of the materials and construction that limits cold spots, but it's typically a matter of weight and size for the most part. There's an exponential climb for a few ounces, since most of the better bags are made for backpacking and mountaineering needs where every ounce counts.

http://www.backcountry.com usually has better prices than Campmor or REI. Check the outlet. http://www.sierratradingpost.com is more limited to overstock and seconds, etc, but often has really good pricing on outdoor gear. Check http://www.backpacker.com and http://www.outsidemagazine.com for some reviews.

If you plan on going in the spring, you shouldn' t need anything more than a 20+ bag. You could get another bag to go over your existing bag if you need it, like a 40+ which will typically give you an extra 15-25 degree cushion, but obviously you won't have that room on a bike. Make sure your wear a wicking, lightweight baselayer that you haven't worn all day.

Down makes me sneeze and weeze. Syntheitcs are slightly heavier and bulkier, with Polarguard Delta being the lightest for the rating. Down is said to last much longer, pack smaller, and  I wouldn't worry about it getting wet, unless it's in a cheap bag with a low temp rating in the summer, that doesn't manage sweat well enough to lose some loft. I still will only use synthetic because of allergies.

[Yankee Dog]

Its all about weight and packability.  Of course workmanship also enters into it.  If I was only going to use it once in a while and I didnt care about a couple of extra pounds I would go cheap.  
 
But I also think the fleece line is your best option.  Makes the bag more flexible if the temps dont get as low as they might.  
 
Yankee Dog

[badger]

I agree with L2I.  -20F bag is too much insulation for what you're going to be doing.  20F or at most 0F if you're cold blooded, get a bag liner (usually good for an extra 5-10 F) polar fleece cap and Bob's yer uncle.
 
The cheapo bag looks like it has no waterproofing and may develop really cold spots due to sparse baffling.  I'd move up the scale a bit in quality, but prefer synthetic fill over down for sleeping bags.  When down gets wet, you're gonna be sad.

[JeffM]

A other have said, the Mountain Hardware is way more bag than you'll need for your activities. I do a lot of high altitude mountain climbing and I have a similar bag (Marmot Col), and that's what those are made for. I have been in -20 temps, and it's the right bag for that but way overkill for temps between 0 and +20.
With that said, the features that make those types of bag expensive are nice to have (good baffling, well located zips, fitted hoods, etc) and worth paying for if you intend to have a bag a long time and use it regularly.
The main difference is the insulation. Down is a lot more expensive than synthetics, but in equally rted bags will always be lighter and pack into a smaller space (and these will be significant differences). Unless you camp in wet weather a lot down's wet issues aren't a big deal. I have a Gore DryLoft shell on my bag (again, adding to the cost) which keeps small amounts of moisture from the outside off (condensation from the tent, spills, etc) but still allows perspiration out.

[RickC1957]

$450 for a sleeping bag....you better do alot of motorcycle camping in pretty shitty weather! Is everyone a Bill Gates or Oprah on this board:confused:

[FZ1 Matt]

$450 for a sleeping bag....you better do alot of motorcycle camping in pretty shitty weather! Is everyone a Bill Gates or Oprah on this board:confused:

Look who's talking Mr. Ducati -- riding all over the place then going to Hawaii and taking all these vacations.

[RickC1957]

Look who's talking Mr. Ducati -- riding all over the place then going to Hawaii and taking all these vacations.

Thats because I don't spend money on $450 sleeping bags:D And did you notice not one ride report or picture...am I good or what:D Hope all is going well Matt

[license2ill]

Thats because I don't spend money on $450 sleeping bags:D And did you notice not one ride report or picture...am I good or what:D Hope all is going well Matt

Speaking of that, since there are so many freaks like that around that have to have the latest-greatest, one gram lighter equipment, there are a lot of deals to be found on ebay and craigslist for this type of gear.

[RickC1957]

Speaking of that, since there are so many freaks like that around that have to have the latest-greatest, one gram lighter equipment, there are a lot of deals to be found on ebay and craigslist for this type of gear.

Great point....that's where I bought my 2610 and X50 (red display) Both from techno weenies wanting the lastest and greatest;)

[bubba zanetti]

Went back to a down bag this year and love it. It is a cozier feel, I sleep better and as DD said it packs so much smaller. I got mine at MEC on clearance price and it was a bargain at $145. I would not pay $450 for a bag though.

I bought a down jacket as well this year and am cozy cozy cozy !! We wimpy west coast boys need all the help we can get for real winter.

[roadrailer]

Speaking of that, since there are so many freaks like that around that have to have the latest-greatest, one gram lighter equipment, there are a lot of deals to be found on ebay and craigslist for this type of gear.

Used sleeping bags?
 
Mountain Hardware makes good stuff, but you do still pay a lot for the name. And I also agree that a -20 will most likely be too hot except under the most extreme conditions, unless you're very cold natured. I bet some searching will turn up a better bargain with almost all the same features.

[Snowbird]

Used sleeping bags?

No worse than a used motel room. At least you know the bag has been washed before you sleep in it.

[roadrailer]

No worse than a used motel room. At least you know the bag has been washed before you sleep in it.

I know, I know, it just sounds so gross...

[dinolee]

REI is expensive, but their outlet site will sometimes have some great deals.  Sign up for their online newsletters, usually during the Christmas season they'll email out additional coupons for additional 20% on top of the outlet discount.

[Thor]

I really like the Big Agnes bag I got a few years ago.  Having the ability to slide the sleeping pad in the sleeve of the bag is huge!  You can't roll off, and the sleeping pad can be compressed and put in a very small bag.

[forester]

In a word, Yes.

All of the text that went along with the Wraith all means something. They are the "little details" that makes the difference between surviving the night vs enjoying the night.

800-fill down - you don't get much better than that, either. I've seen the bags on this page http://store.mm411.com/catalog/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog&parent_id=255 and they are incredibly light, soft and very warm. They also stuff down to about the size of a football.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. If you intend to use this bag more than once, then shell out the bucks and do it right. You won't be sorry.

I agree with the exception that I ONLY use Wiggy's bags.  They aren't cheap, but sure as hell, they won't leave you hanging, either.  There is a nice long lengthy article written by Jerry W. regarding this very issue.  I've used his bags as low as -17F (via a thermometer) up in the U.P. during fun backcountry ski trips in mid-winter with friends...Or enemies (what kind of "friend" would drag your ass out in that kind of weather? )... Anyway, check this link.  Good luck.

[axelwik]

You can try one of these (see link)... it zips into your existing bag and makes it much warmer or can be used alone as a summer bag.  I got one a few months ago and it works great.

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=39205353&memberId=12500226&storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1

[PhilBiker]

A -20 bag will have you sweating in misery in anything but the arctic or the top of Everest.

I just went backpacking this weekend with temps into the single digits at night with a -15 bag and I completely disagree with this statement.

[license2ill]

I just went backpacking this weekend with temps into the single digits at night with a -15 bag and I completely disagree with this statement.

So what happened? What bag was it?

[torags v2]

What about these non porous plastic liners that are supposed take a 40 degree rated bag down to a 20 degree bag.

I bought into the concept and have one, but don't have experience with it. does anybody?

[badger]

What about these non porous plastic liners that are supposed take a 40 degree rated bag down to a 20 degree bag.

I bought into the concept and have one, but don't have experience with it. does anybody?

My liner isn't plastic (it's a lycra sorta material).  Yes.  They add 5-10 F of warmth.  What many folks don't realize is a hat (and mittens/socks) will add a lot of extra warmth by limiting heat loss.

[5OUTTA6]

Badger:  did you prefer S&H green stamps to Blue Chip stamps?  Are they still around?

[Dichotomous]

depends, when you want a burger, do you head to burger king or do you head to the best steakhouse in town?  do you drive a civic or a mercedes benz sl600?  do you live by the lake or by the airport?  the nice bag is really nice, and there are great things about it.  but I have gotten by with my EMS down under 20deg bag for over a decade, cost $100 new.  basically, what I am saying is try the bags out, find out the features you will be missing on the cheeper bag, and decide what things you are willing to pay for.  by try them out I mean lay down in them, especially if you are anywhere near the 6' mark.  mine is technically too small, but like I said, I got it when I was about 14 or so, and my height exploded when I was about 16.  make sure you have enough room for your arms, knees.  case in point, I like to sleep on my belly or side, and my knees and elbows dont have enough room in my bag zipped up (I can use it as a quilt till it gets REALLY cold though) so check that the bag will fit and be comfortable for you in your normal sleeping position(s).  finding a well fitting bag is WAY more important than it being a pound or two lighter.  especially if you are on a motorcycle where weight doesnt REALLY matter (sorry, I'm a backpacker, weight doesnt just mess with my handeling, it is on my bad knees the whole time).  also where are you hiking, if you are in the NE or PNW down might be hard to keep dry, I have done it like I said for over a decade but YMMV.  do you have kids that might be in there with you at some point or a SO that you will be entertaining in there?  if so go synthetic.... you can wash sythetic, down's not so washable.
if you like the bag you have right now, how about a heavy wool blanket that is big enough to go over it like a comfortor or wrap around it?  I know this increased the temperature HIGHLY on my bag when it was about -10 out (remember this is a 20 bag and I am a warm guy) and didnt take up much space.  also consider a thicker sleeping pad as well, thats where a lot of heat is lost because you compress all that nice insulation.  throw another 1lb closed cell foam pad on the bike and you will likely incread your bags temp rating by 5 or more degrees.....
in a tent you will be 10-20 degrees nicer than outside, usually cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter, if there is someone else in there then 20-30 degrees warmer in the winter, no joke.

just some tips from someone who evaluates every single ounce of camping gear and has done so and tested for most of his life....

[Squiggy]

Thanks guys and gals for your info. I'll do some more research and pondering of my options with the links and information given here.