Supermoto: How to kick the rear end out?

[hobbes]

I know how to with a street bike on the track. (note: "know how" and "can do" are two completely different things)

How on earth do the supermoto guys get the rear end around and sliding like they do without using the rear brake?

[stk0308]

Weight transfer to the front unloading the rear mostly, with liberal downshifting and slipping the clutch.  But sometimes they do use the rear brake to start the slide.

[kitkat]

as far as the rear wheel goes, the slide (properly) is all initiated with the clutch...trasfer weigth to front with hard front braking and body position fwd and inside...simultaniously shift to a gear low enough (downshift 2, maybe three) to break traction when clutch is released...dump clutch ...slide begins... control with clutch feathering/rear brake.  Hard on the tranny this is.  Not recommended unless you like to rebuild clutches & trannies 'before their time'..

here's a "how-to": http://www.ccmowners.co.uk/top_tips.htm

[hobbes]

*as taken from the KitKat link*

Backing it In
I hope this doesn't come across as spam but there seems to be quite a lot of confusion here regarding backin' it in, how to do it and why so here's a bit of an explanation about what we teach at the Supermoto School:

To really understand the reasons and benefits of backing the bike in we've got to look at the history of SM which of course includes what we're looking to achieve from the corner.

As I'm sure you're all aware, and after the US roots, SM grew from the use of short and tight circuits - e.g. tops speeds usually less than 70mph and a lot of tight hairpin like corners - and the use Kart track type circuits.

This is essentially where the backing it in technique grew from - backing it in is used to get the bike pointing in the direction you want to exit the corner allowing you to get on the gas harder and earlier. So on some corners, especially wide open ones backing it is slower than keeping the whole thing in line, but on these specific SM type corners, it is the fastest way round.

So what about the technique?

Backing it in involves the balance of rider, brakes, clutch, gearbox etc. but in essence is actually quite a simple technique to learn when broken down into its component parts. So, in brief, here is an outline of the technique:

1. Set yourself up on the bike for the corner - get your body right up front almost sitting on the tank filler cap. Position yourself sitting ever so slightly to the inside (e.g. half a a bum cheek off the seat to the inside).

2. Begin braking - using the front brake as normal (i.e. this is where almost all braking force is) and lightly brake with the rear. You do NOT use the rear brake to initiate the slide - if you do you prolly won't be around for very long to tell the tale, especially if you lock the rear wheel - the rear brake has a completely different use which we'll get to soon.

Now you should have most of the weight of the bike on the front and a light bit of braking to the rear.

3. Pull in clutch and select the gear you need to be in at the apex of the corner - or where you are going to get on the gas again.

This doesn't necessarily mean 1,2, or 3 gears just as many as is necessary. At the Supermoto School we use 2 gears as this tends to be easiest and best way for students to learn (3rd to 1st). In addition, speed has nothing to do with it, you can back it in from 2nd to 1st or 6th to 1st, it just depends on the circumstances.

4. Lean bike slightly into the corner, and DUMP the clutch, yes, dump it. The rear should now break away reasonably gently and with control. Here, you also maintain some pressure and use of the rear brake, all the way to the apex.

The rear brake is actually used to maintain the slower rotation speed of the rear wheel in relation to the tarmac once the clutch is dumped. If you just dump the clutch the rear will break away and initiate a slide but before you reach the apex, tyre/tarmac friction will have dragged the wheel (and engine speed) back up again to roll with the tarmac - so the slide stops way before you want it to. The rear brake is used to balance this so you can maintain the slide deeper into the corner to the apex. It also gives you more control over the overall slide.

The rear wheel should maintain rotation all the way and if it is locking up, you are using too much rear brake and you will lose stability of the bike.

The clip shown on TV wasn't a representation of how to back it in but was a skid with bike coming to a stop in front of the camera.

There are obviously a number of other things like when you put your leg out, where to and getting exactly where you want to be in the corner while sliding and visual stuff but I hope this clarifies a few things.

Ok...but what about right hand turns with your right foot out. How do you use the rear brake then?

[johne]

Best one I've seen so far and includes pictures for your viewing pleasure.
http://www.supermotoracer.com/SMR%20Tech%20stories/iss2_backitin.pdf

[FrontlineAuto]

the way you push down on the handlebars is a huge thing.  when you're slowing down coming into the turn you push down on your inside grip while shifting your body weight to the outside of the bike.  Not to mention, keeping your knee bent.  you pull a motocross burm turn sticking your leg straight out, you have a good chance of snapin your knee back if you lean too much.

[BlueRidgeKat]

the way you push down on the handlebars is a huge thing.  when you're slowing down coming into the turn you push down on your inside grip while shifting your body weight to the outside of the bike.  Not to mention, keeping your knee bent.  you pull a motocross burm turn sticking your leg straight out, you have a good chance of snapin your knee back if you lean too much.

I think I'll pass.      (wuss)

[hig4s]

I know how to with a street bike on the track. (note: "know how" and "can do" are two completely different things)

How on earth do the supermoto guys get the rear end around and sliding like they do without using the rear brake?

Start practicing on dirt.

[NJFJR]

See for yourself next weekend (6/2-6/3) at Raceway Park in Old Bridge NJ. AMA Supermoto. All the fast guys (except Doug Henry of course) will be there.
I'm not sure if I'll be there Sat or Sun. I have another commitment at 2pm Sun.

If you go, don't forget to bring a wheelbarrow for your jaw.
                                                                               

[FrontlineAuto]

I think I'll pass.      (wuss)

Take a flattrack course or just watch chris carr, They do the same thing.  Not to mention you have to take a flattrack school in order to take a supermoto one.  But judging from your picture there, you probally just put everything you own in to one sidebag and slam on the rear brake.