V-Strom 650 or 1000?

[SWriverstone]

This is still highly speculative...but I might be getting a new bike in the next month (so Holly can ride my VFR). I'm seriously considering the V-Strom, but having trouble deciding between the 650 and 1000.

I know the "Wee" is by far the most popular...but I'm guessing this is because it tends to be an "only" dual-sport bike for those owners, so naturally the lighter weight is an advantage off-pavement. I already have a KLR, so I'm all set for any off-pavement riding. If I buy a V-Strom, it's likely to see about 95% pavement riding (maybe 100%)...

...which is why I'm looking at the 1000. Seems to me the greater power would be preferable if you're strictly on pavement, right? Or are there other disadvantages to the 1000 that I'm not aware of? (For example, is the 650 just as fast on pavement and gets better fuel efficiency? Is the 1000 a big fat pig?)

I just noticed another big plus for the 650: it appears Suzuki is now selling the 650 with ABS, which I definitely want! So I'm wondering: will they make the 1000 with ABS? Or are the 1000's sales numbers so low it's not worth it?

For what it's worth, I was considering the 1000 also because I'm a big guy---6'0, 220lbs...so I definitely want something that will easily pass vehicles already going 65mph (unlike my KLR!).

Any thoughts?

Scott

PS - Just checked specs, and dry weight difference is far less than I thought! 427lbs (Wee) vs. 458 (1000). That's only 21lbs difference, not even worth mentioning in my book...which makes me wonder even more why everyone seems to like the Wee?

[cb400]

I'm in exactly the same boat. I want the 1K, but way I hear it, from people that have had both, the 650 is the better choice.

It's hard one, and I've done a crapload of research.  

1000k torque.
650 nimble.

the 1K had cartridge forks, the 650 damper rod.

If you want ABS, 650 is the only game in town.

Soon as the VFR goes away, I'l have to really decide.

I like them both.

--jeff

[SWriverstone]

Guess I need to ride one, but fat chance, since it's a global law that no living human can test ride a Japanese bike at a dealer.  

Already having a 650---the KLR, which I love---it's hard to imagine a 650 having much more power than my KLR. (But then again, the KLR is a single-cylinder thumper, and not a V-twin.)

I love my KLR for what it is...but I definitely want something with more get-up-and-go for long-distance pavement travel. (And I'll be giving up a VFR to ride the Strom, so that's where I'd be coming from power-and-torque-wise...)

Scott

[TheCloser]

I had a 2002 DL1000 before I bought my Buell Lightning and thought it was a really great bike.  Excellent power, very comfortable, and even decent handling in the twisties.  There are some riders here in SoCal, especially GTS_Rider, who are phenomenally fast on 1000cc V-Stroms that they literally defy description.  Mine was very bulletproof and never gave me any problems at all.

I would heartily recommend buying one!  

[garry]

You can ride my Wee Strom if you want Scott. I rode a 1000 and was not impressed, even with the power. I found the Ulysses and Multistrada much more fun. When I test rode the used 650 I bought (because it was cheap, $4K), it felt nimble enough to rail in the twisties despite be close in weight on the spec sheet. Meet me in the middle somewhere in WV and we'll swap bikes for a bit.

EDIT: I think you'll be amazed at how much faster the DL650 is than a 650 thumper. 65 HP versus 35 HP. The 100# weight difference doesn't make up that big a difference in power. The Wee cruises effortlessly on the interstate at an indicated 80 MPH and will gladly go faster.

[SWriverstone]

You can ride my Wee Strom if you want Scott. I rode a 1000 and was not impressed, even with the power. I found the Ulysses and Multistrada much more fun. When I test rode the used 650 I bought (because it was cheap, $4K), it felt nimble enough to rail in the twisties despite be close in weight on the spec sheet. Meet me in the middle somewhere in WV and we'll swap bikes for a bit.

EDIT: I think you'll be amazed at how much faster the DL650 is than a 650 thumper. 65 HP versus 35 HP. The 100# weight difference doesn't make up that big a difference in power. The Wee cruises effortlessly on the interstate at an indicated 80 MPH and will gladly go faster.

Thanks for the offer Garry. If I go this route (Holly permitting, LOL), I'll absolutely give you a holler and come your way for a test ride. Yes, I'm sure I'd find a non-thumper 650 a lot more powerful!

What kind of fuel efficiency have you been getting Garry?

Scott

[garry]

What kind of fuel efficiency have you been getting Garry?

50+ MPG on my ESTN trip. I've seen high-40s pre-ESTN, but I just put a new air filter and plugs in it before the trip, so maybe that helped.

[SWriverstone]

That's downright respectable!  

Just rode over to the local dealer at lunch, and they have an '07 DL650 sitting in the showroom that's been there (I'm fairly certain) for a year (nobody in Squidland is interested, LOL). The tag price was $5,999. I bet I could talk 'em down... But that's without ABS...and after our recent...err..."experience" coming back from ESTN, I'm feeling more addicted than ever to ABS...

Scott

[DogBoy]

The '07's didn't hit dealers until last September so I doubt the bike has been there for a year.  

I'll second garry's comments. The 650 is no über powerhouse but its a great, flexible engine with plenty of midrange.. I have no problem passing cars in tight canyons or running up to 100mph on mine. In fact I had trouble keeping it down to 90 a few weeks ago in the eastern Sierra. And that was above 6000 ft. elevation. I get anywhere from 44 to 50 mpg.

One thing about V-Stroms is the mirrors and gauges are the best I've ever encountered. The big tank is a plus, too.

[VAX]

PS - Just checked specs, and dry weight difference is far less than I thought! 427lbs (Wee) vs. 458 (1000). That's only 21lbs difference

That's 31 lbs.

[garry]

$5800 + title, tax and plate (no extra fees) is about as good as it gets on the 650. That price is typically on last year's new/leftovers, not current model year bikes.

[Mastros2]

I was in the same boat as you but decided that the 650 wee would'ove been a better bike for my riding style.  Great for commuting, good for 2-up touring, nice and nimble, better fuel economy and cheaper.  

FYI, I decided to keep my X1 due to having too much fun on it!  Couldn't part with it and wife wouldn't let met get a 3rd bike!  Also, I get 50+mpg on the Buell so I have decided that my next bike would have to have better fuel economy than it.  

I guess this is my way to fight "big oil."

[CLAY]

I took a 1000 for a ride before I bought my Bandit 1200.  The local BMW dealership had a used one in stock, so riding it wasn't a problem.  

All I can say is *wow*.  It was awesome. Tons o' power.  On a nice, srtaight patch of highway I got 130 and it was still rapidly climbing- that's where I quit- the bike still wanted to go.  Lots of torque as well.  I never drove the 650, so I'm a bit biased there.

I was looking for one when I came into the B12 for a steal, so I bought it.  I too was planning to spend 95-100% on the road...

[john66]

I'm glad I have the 1000 instead of the 650. I'm only a buck 40, and when I get on it, it just takes off like a rocket. My wife is a little heavier than me (luckily she'll never see this) and it moves us around pretty good in the mountains. Alone, I average 50mpg when I do about 65-70mph. At about 80 I get 43-45. The dual exhaust evens out the looks. The only mods I've done was lower it 3/4", installed a taller/wider windshield, and put a centerstand on.

[armymedic]

I was at the same crossroads when I sold my Sprint ST. DL650 or 1000? I ended up buying a farkled out 02 DL1K and I have zero regrets! Just finished a 3 day trip around UT (See Ride Report: Everything Good in Utah) and I have to say that the 1000 had all the handling, power, torque, off-road capability and load carrying capacity I could ever want! I much enjoy a lower RPM at high speeds too than with a 650. One of the guys with us had a Multistrada and after riding his, it felt like riding a kids trike...Waaaay small. I'd never take one of those offroad! (Too pretty!)

Good Luck.
Kevin

[SWriverstone]

Good replies. Still seems like a tough choice! Lots of people rant and rave about their 650s...and ditto with the 1000s. Since I'm pretty much getting one for the street (because I'll likely hang on to my KLR for the gnarly stuff)...I'm leaning toward the 1000. (And I really like the symmetrical pipes under the seat---a single pipe always bugged me, LOL).

The weight difference doesn't really seem like a factor (31lbs). I mean, many people say the 650 isn't exactly a dirtbike offroad, which would be true of the 1000 as well. On the other hand, I'm sure either would be fine for well-graded dirt and gravel roads, which is all mine would ever likely see.

The 650 has ABS...and I'm wondering what's up with 'Zuki not providing them on 1000??? So that could tilt me toward the 650.

Tough choice.
Scott

[stromgal]

Rumours are that the '08 1K will get some changes,  including ABS.

I've got 49,000 on my '03, currently in the midst of a coast to coast ride; tomorrow I'll be heading from San Berdoo towards the Strom West Meet in Reno. The Strom has been uber-reliable, comfortable, and fun.

You can't go wrong with either version.

bj

[andmoon]

I traded an sv1000 for a dl650.  The motor is no comparo in the hp dept.  I also rode a 1K dl and decided on the wee as the 30lb doesn't seem like anything significant on paper but in reality the wee rides much much smaller than the 1K.

[Baz]

I rode them both in one day, and I would take the 1000 hands down. I saw no advantage with the wee strom.

hehehe, but this question is kind of like an oil thread!

[Req]

From what I hear, the 650 does everything better than the 1000 except for:

2-up riding
and going stupid fast.

2-up was a big part of my plan, so I got a 1K.  I'm very glad I did, it's a real hoot to ride and no slouch in the twisties at all.  Make sure the riding position's right for you, though; honestly I think my Bandit fit me a little bit better.

[SWriverstone]

I dunno...I like light handling...but the heavier rotational mass and low RPMs at highway speeds of the 1K are a big   for me! I never liked bikes that go "NEEEEEEEEEEEE" down the highway. Far better to go "OMMMMMMMMM!"   (Just make those sounds out loud and you'll hear a big difference, LOL.)

Scott

[Nitro]

well i got my 650 to 190kph  yesterday, 2nd time out with it since I bought it on sat.. I expect it will have more once it loosens up a bit...
Blows away the 1000 easily............






in the price dept!  


I myself cant see why anyone would spend any more money on such a ugly creation  for the 1000, if you want the power, and have the cash...buy a nice st  bike!
But then again..to each their own right? get what turns you on man!

As for me..yep i have a 650..buts its only for 2 up riding, and for that, and for the price, it cant be beat far as I can see..great bike for 2-up..great pillion seat, good handling, goes faster than my passenger likes,so why would I need a 100 for that? gets great gas mileage..works great for a cheapo bike! hard to beat..
solo?.. uninspiring cheap transportation, but it works ok!

[SWriverstone]

I've been surfing the V-Strom forum - http://11109.rapidforum.com - and this topic (650 vs. 1000) has apparently been beat to death over there!   I found this post which I think is a slam-dunk for the 1000...which I'm definitely leaning toward...

-----

Gosh, been tooo long since we've had the debate that will never die.

Like a train wreck, i was trying not to look, but when Monkeybrain told you to buy a 650, I felt I had to come in and defend the fatter of the girls. Here is my take and many know I don't hold back. Let's again look at some numbers and FACTS:

Let's see:

DL-1000
98.00 HP @ 7600 RPM
74.5 ft.lbs @ 6400
456.4 pounds (dry)

DL-650
64 HP @ 8500 RPM
48 ft lbs @ 7400 RPM
417 lbs (dry)

So in short, for 91% of the weight, you're only getting 65% of the HP and only 64% of the torque when compared to the DL-1000

I've heard a lot of arguments, and IMO most are based on perception, prejudice and folklore. Take a look at the actual numbers above and let's apply these to what it means to the guy out riding:

DL-1000 is handicapped only 37lbs of weight to gain 34HP! That is nearly 1HP per pound! Why would anyone not take that option?? I don't care what the vehicle, anytime you can get another HP per pound you take it. Not to mention, half that weight can be made up by taking the OEM boat-anchor exhaust off and then your weight to HP ratio between the two bikes is even more dramatic. The reason for changing exhaust on the men's version is not for the couple of HP, it is for the 15+lbs less weight.

Torque: speaks for itself, and I'll comment below on why it is especially important.

Myth:
The 650 does better in the dirt.

Fact: The 8% weight difference does not make that much of a difference in dirt. Both bikes are fat trailies. In fact, why not go with GS650dakar if you think the DL-650 is a dirt choice. The reality is that it is a Big Trallie with a weaker engine.
 
I am constantly told the "I bought the 650 because I like to go in the dirt" --- Let me tell you, if you think that the HUGE difference in torque, doesn't more than make up for the (very) few lbs I want a hit off of your pipe -and I'm not talking exhaust pipe!
 
With the Men's version (1000) you can be in third gear and have a huge range. You better be one hell of a dirt rider to shift that 650 engine up and down to compete with the torgue of the DL-1000 on the rough-and-tough terrain.

Now, the DL-1000 is no slouch in performance, but come on, it isn't some road-blistering sport bike. !!!Half of the 600cc sports bike have more HP!!!!, so really, it is not unmanigeable and nothing that should be considered scary. In fact in many ways (as I described above) the engine is easier for a intermediate rider.

So, doubters want to talk about the frame geometry and tell me that the DL-650 is "more flickable in the twisties"? OK, hang your hat on that if you believe it, I think the slight difference is rake won't make a diffrence in the riding that people who buy these bikes do. You don't have to agree with me, but these are facts, ...best way to convince me that the 650 is better in the dirt or more flickable in the corners?: SHOW ME.

Conclusion: Buy a DL-1000

-----

[garry]

Ride them both and make up your own mind Scott. The 1000 did absolutely NOTHING for me. The 650 was fun. Don't buy bikes based on specs. RIDE THEM and buy the bike that gives you wood. And FWIW, more power isn't necessarily better on unpaved surfaces. The overwhelming opinion of those that have ridden both is that the 650 feels much more nimble in the twisties than the 30 pounds on the spec sheet would indicate.

EDIT: Just happened to be browsing the "Beasts" section on ADVrider and came across this quote in the "Trying to Love the V-Strom" thread:

I had an '03 DL1000. I now have an '05 DL650. Neither one ever inspired me to pause and gaze at their graceful, flowing lines. The 1000 in particular was as ugly as a hatful of smashed assholes. But you can't see any of that from the saddle. And not that anyone asked (at least not in this thread) but for me the 650 is by far the better bike. The specs would not indicate they're that different, but on the road they are.

[SWriverstone]

Good point Garry, and I hear what you're saying. In fact, what are you doing next weekend?   (June 9-10). I'd love to meet you halfway and take your Wee for a spin. Meanwhile, I really want to find someone who'll let me ride their 1000 too.

I'm certainly not already fully in the 1000 camp—I want to make the best decision, because frankly, I think buying and selling bikes is a pain!   I plan to keep this next one for a long time. (I know—famous last words, LOL.)

Even after reading piles of posts favoring both, I'm still simply stuck in the middle...so you're right, riding both will probably be the tiebreaker!

Remember, I'm keeping the KLR, so I'll ride that if I think I'm going to do any significant off-pavement riding. The Strom will be almost exclusively for pavement. (So for me, that negates any superior offroad handling of the 650.)

I'm also a "quiet bike" rider, meaning I love it when bikes make as little noise as possible, and as little vibration as possible. Even on my VFR, I'm guilty of half-lugging the engine and staying way low (in RPMs) in every gear, just because I like that "loafing along" feel of the engine. High-pitched, revvy, whiney high-RPM stuff just gets on my nerves. LOL (And yes, I've had to get used to that with the KLR!)

So those are the reasons why I'm leaning toward the 1000 based on what I've read...but riding both might change that!

Scott

[DogBoy]

Scott, there are hundreds of posts like that on 11109 forums, Stromtroopers.com and ADVRider. Some favor the 650, others favor the 1000. As garry said, you can't just look at the spec sheet. Stats can be misleading as the post you quoted doesn't mention 1/4 miles times or top gear acceleraton. Remember, all those stats only talk of peak power or wide open throttle which, according to you, is where you spend very little of your riding. The post you quoted doesn't mention fuel mileage which appears to be very important to you from your many posts on the enviroment.

Both are really great bikes and you can't go wrong with either one.

[garry]

If/when you get a demo of the 1000, note that they are notorious for needing a TBS sync, even when brand new. Many people also drop a tooth on the front sprocket to wake the motor up a bit. If the TBS is way off on the 1000, it will run quite rough below 4K RPMs. The Wee is pretty much good to go from the factory from a fueling perspective. All these points are hashed to death on the StromTrooper and that VStrom International forums. Lots of great info on those sites. Much like the KLR, expect to spend a little money farkling the bike and sorting it out for your needs.

RE: Wee demo
I may be able to spring free next weekend for a ride. My son graduates from high school that Friday night and I expect family to still be around Saturday morning before heading back to NJ. Saturday is my birthday too (old fart now older), not sure what the wife has planned. But Sunday the 10th is a very good possibility. I could probably meet you near the 219/50 junction (just south of Oakland, MD). That'd be an easy ride on route 50 for you and not bad ride from Pittsburgh thru the Laurel Highlands for me. From there we can hit a bunch of varied roads from higher-speed sweepers, to goat paths, to dirt if wanted.

[SWriverstone]

Good points again DogBoy and Garry. There is an '06 (or "K6" as they say on the Strom forums) in a local showroom begging to be taken home for $5999, so I can certainly imagine my name on it.  

Yes, I'm almost exhausted already by all the mods and farkling...I just about wore myself out doing that to my KLR last fall.   (And I'm thinking...oh no! Here we go again!)

Hopefully, though, the Strom (either one) will have a shorter list of "must-have" mods than the KLR (e.g. no doohickey). I figure some crash bars and a better skid plate, a better pair of tires (than factory Trailwings) would be fie for starters.

My plan right now (for either Strom) is to keep my Givi E41s, and buy the SW-Motech racks—I like being able to quickly/easily take the racks off as well as the bags.

Let's touch base during the week about Sunday Garry...but sure, 219/50 sounds like a good possibility!

Scott

[DogBoy]

There's nothing wrong with the stock Trailwings for paved roads or dry gravel roads. You can scrape foot pegs all day long with the Trailwings with no fear of loosing grip.

One of the problems with brand specific boards is people get carried away throwing every farkle at a bike and announce huge improvements to justify their spending. Most bikes work great right off the showroom floor.

[SWriverstone]

That's good to hear DogBoy. Believe me—after all the modding I did to the KLR, I'm not inclined to spend hours (and tons of cash) on a Strom! (Though I have to say I think in the KLR's case, all the modding really did result in a far more robust and crashproof bike!)

Scott

[garry]

My Wee Strom is appropriately farkled I think:

- centerstand
- Madstad bracket and MRA windscreen
- stiffer fork springs
- stiffer shock spring
- Suzuki gel seat (adds 1" of much needed height to the 650)
- Suzuki hand guards (for weather protection, not crash protection)
- Givi crash bars
- AMoto skidplate
- Tourance tires
- $20 toolbox/topcase from Lowes

The only mod that really didn't make a significant improvement was the Madstad bracket. The MRA screen did a good job, but I figured I'd risk the $80 and see if I could get reduced wind noise. Stiffening the suspension with new springs is a must do and I only weigh maybe 175 or 180 in gear. The only mod left to do is try a different bend handlebar, probably an "ATV High" bend based on my reading. I think the stock ones sweep back a little too much.

BTW, I might be good for Saturday the 9th too. Depends on when my Dad and his wife leave and they tend to leave very early (before 8am). Wife tells me she has nothing planned for my birthday, so if the weather is good, I might as well ride.

[cb400]

I just brought home a wee this weekend myself. Could use a ride to see what she's like....


--jeff  

[SWriverstone]

Hey Jeff---congrats on the new bike!   Maybe you could join Garry and I for a ride this weekend. Holly might want to join us too on her new ST3! She picks it up Saturday.

I might ride the KLR, so we can see how badly the 650 V-twin whips the 650 single!   (Until we go offroad, that is, LOL.)

Scott

[forester]

The DL is just slightly quicker than the KLR.  Off road, of course it is no competition.  There is no substitution for less weight and more ground clearance once you get off of the road...

I hope you get a chance to ride both models (650 &1000).  Please report your personal take after doing so.  

It ought to be fairly enlightening to compare the dry weights and h.p. numbers to the real world experience of how they feel when you're riding them.

[SWriverstone]

Will do Forester!   I've got a couple folks with 650s I can ride...now I just need to find a 1000!

Scott

[cb400]

I might be able to attend this weekend.

 No off road for me tho,  I've got Road Attacks mounted.

--jeff  

[sagerat]

Buy both and sell the one you have ridden the least after a year.  See, it's simple.  

[SWriverstone]

LOL---that's an excellent idea sagerat!   Alas...if I only had the cash...

Scott

[SWriverstone]

Okay...my thoughts are becoming more focused on this whole 650/1000 thing...

As everyone knows, I have a KLR. I'm actually pretty happy with the KLR most of the time. The only time I'm NOT happy with the KLR is on the interstate. In 5th gear at 5-6K rpms going 75mph, the KLR is just too revvy/whiny/buzzy and vibrates like crazy...and it has ZERO passing power at those speeds.

Now I try not to ride interstates often, but it's fact of life that we all spend time on the slab.

So basically, I guess my fear (which I need to address and have others address) is that if I buy a DL650, it's characteristics will be too close to the KLR.

So I'd really love to hear from people who either own both, or have ridden the DL650 and a KLR. (And yes, I know I can ride your DL650 Garry and Jeff, which I plan to do!) Because if the DL650 even feels close to the KLR---generally speaking---I'm not going to be happy with it (because I can just ride the KLR!)

But if the DL650 blows the KLR away (or at least is significantly faster, more powerful, smoother, etc.), then that's the bike for me.

So in conclusion, it's not that I have to have the power/speed of a DL1000...I just want there to be enough of a "perceived performance margin" between the KLR and whatever bike I get for me to feel the new bike is justified! (That's certainly the case now with my VFR!)

Scott

[Mr Sunshine]

The DL650 will be able to do 110+mph...so it won't have the same problem as the KLR.

[DogBoy]

The DL650 also has twice the horsepower, six speeds and weighs less than a hundred pounds more. It will easily outrun the KLR.

[SWriverstone]

Okay, last question (I promise)...has anyone heard anything negative about the new DL650 w/ABS? (I've heard rumors of "wooden" brakes, etc.)

Scott

[garry]

I've heard that:

- the exhaust is different and there are limited options in the aftermarket

- you can't sync the throttle bodies yourself anymore

[cb400]

On my 8800 mile used one, in 30 miles I'm already looking to order new HH+ pads, so I'm not real impressed with the front brakes.

I will say that in those 3o miles, they either got better, or I learned to squeeze harder, one or the other. I had to set the adjuster to the largest span as well.

Rear brake felt good, not that I use it much.

--jeff

[roadsurfer]

I'll join the chorus here...

Like many have said, you really need to ride them both to make up your mind.  Another factor, if you plan on doing longish tours fully loaded, the DL1000 might be the better choice.  I have the big strom, and it was the right choice for me because I'm a big guy (220 lbs.) and I do quite a few 7-8 day tours with fully loaded hard cases and tank bag.

I bought mine new in April 2003 and it now has 89,000 miles on the odo.  The only problem I've had is the fuel pump went at around 65k.  It's been a great bike, but honestly, if most of my riding was commuting and weekend canyon strafing I'd probably have gone with the DL650 (except they didn't have them in '03 when I bought mine).

For the money, they're both outstanding motorsickles.  

[august]

Riverstone, I have the same problem as you, almost.  I presently ride an 03 KLR and am on the list to get the next 08 KLR that comes in. Although I am getting tired of waiting.Which is causing me to start looking at some other bikes, as well as maybe wanting something different from the KLR.

I have ridden the new 08 KLR, and I will say they have made some really good changes to it. Less vibration, better wind protection,bike feels more solid and stable on dirt and pavement, brakes are better , motor seems better at low rpm high gear situations. Less likely to buck and snort, smoother it seems.

That being said, I have a terrible urge to get the Wee.   I went to a dealer yesterday and tested one for a short ride. Had to talk alot just to get a ride at all on a brand new bike.

I am very impressed with the wee.  It will flat out run away from the KLR on the road.  Very smooth at any speed. Couldn't do much other than a 1/2 mile of gravel road, but it seemed fine on that. The rpm's are pretty high at higher speeds, but it is so smooth you really don't notice the rpm's. The KLR at 75 is pretty all out, but the wee still has lots left.

The wee doesn't have any off road protection like gravel protection for the motor and such, no hand guards, and you can tell it is heavier, but nothing that I thought was so bad it would be a deal breaker.

Long story short, I want a wee bad!!!!!!!!!!!!   but the bad part is the money. My Kaw. dealer gave me an awfully good deal for my old KLR. It will cost me at least 1500 to 1800 more to get the wee, depending on if I sell my old KLR my self or trade it in.

I can get the wee otd for $6271.  I have to pay sales tax on top of that.  I am sorely tempted to get the wee, but I am just a little afraid that it might not be quite as dirt worthy.  But, I don't do much other than graveled  roads, and really well kept two track.

Sorry to make this so long, but I just thought Riverstone and I are sharing some of the same issues. I will say though the wee is a pure delight , and if I didn't have a little bit of tightwad in me, I would already be on one.

Looking forward to more debate, might help me make up my mind.

[SWriverstone]

August and others—see my new thread on my first ride on the DL650...
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/index.php/topic,9970.0.html

Scott